Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Frank on April 05, 2002, 08:50:53
Post by: Frank on April 05, 2002, 08:50:53
Top post, Adrian, well done. Yes, let's pool our ideas on this one. Thanks for the reference to the Chakra articles. They seem much simpler and I think I'm grasping some of the concepts.
I've got more input to report but not much time right now. I've sensed what I think is a "Chakra" lower down about where my belly-button is. I found I can lie down and "switch my legs off" with it fairly quickly. It's a wierd feeling! If I apply a little concentration I can move my upper body and still keep my legs feeling completely dead. Like, I know they are there but have absolutely no inclination to move them.
I discovered there's a particular method of breathing that switches this thing on and off... a way of breathing that I seem to do habitually. But, by slowing down the process, I began to feel exactly what I was doing.
Big downside is I've been doing a LOT of discovery work and haven't been on the Astral for days! You know, I do truly miss the place. It's quite amazing really how the dimension becomes such a part of one's life!
Anyhow, I'll report back as soon as possible.
Yours,
Frank
"All difficult things have
their origin in that which is
easy, and great things in
that which is small"
Lao-Tzu
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Adrian on April 05, 2002, 09:34:10
Post by: Adrian on April 05, 2002, 09:34:10
Greetings Frank!
Thanks for your rapid feedback!
I can understand you missing the Astral! I am hoping that we can put something together here by way of a new OBE method, which opens up the experience to many more people.
Look forward to your further thoughts when you have time.
Best regards,
Adrian.
Thanks for your rapid feedback!
I can understand you missing the Astral! I am hoping that we can put something together here by way of a new OBE method, which opens up the experience to many more people.
Look forward to your further thoughts when you have time.
Best regards,
Adrian.
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Tir13 on April 05, 2002, 15:45:57
Post by: Tir13 on April 05, 2002, 15:45:57
Hey guys!
Keep up the good work, this sounds like it might be an extremely effective tool in learning how to project. It will be interesting to see the feedback, once it gets going. Anyway, I'm staying away from the astral for the time being...personal things, haha. But keep up the awesome work...moral support helps, right? :P
Adios,
Jason
Keep up the good work, this sounds like it might be an extremely effective tool in learning how to project. It will be interesting to see the feedback, once it gets going. Anyway, I'm staying away from the astral for the time being...personal things, haha. But keep up the awesome work...moral support helps, right? :P
Adios,
Jason
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: dashour on April 05, 2002, 16:52:21
Post by: dashour on April 05, 2002, 16:52:21
Hey Frank! Or anyone else! ;) -
I have been trying your "raise the eyes/consciousness" technique with some encourging signs while sitting down and meditating.
Questions:
1. You say you do this in the early morning. I have also been trying that. From what state/position do you start? Do you wake up, continue to lie in bed without getting up, and just go right into it? Or, do you wake yourself up a bit first, and then lie back down and try it?
2. Reason I am asking is that when I wake up, at say 4:30AM, if I just continue to lie there in bed and jump right into the technique, I seem to be too much in a sleep daze, or something. Hard to concentrate.
If I get up, putter around a bit, take a shower even, and then try it sitting in my chair, I seem to be more easily able to enter a trance/meditative state. Well, that is if I am understanding any of this at all to begin with, haha.
Comments? Thanks heaps.
I have been trying your "raise the eyes/consciousness" technique with some encourging signs while sitting down and meditating.
Questions:
1. You say you do this in the early morning. I have also been trying that. From what state/position do you start? Do you wake up, continue to lie in bed without getting up, and just go right into it? Or, do you wake yourself up a bit first, and then lie back down and try it?
2. Reason I am asking is that when I wake up, at say 4:30AM, if I just continue to lie there in bed and jump right into the technique, I seem to be too much in a sleep daze, or something. Hard to concentrate.
If I get up, putter around a bit, take a shower even, and then try it sitting in my chair, I seem to be more easily able to enter a trance/meditative state. Well, that is if I am understanding any of this at all to begin with, haha.
Comments? Thanks heaps.
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Adrian on April 05, 2002, 17:41:55
Post by: Adrian on April 05, 2002, 17:41:55
Greetings Dashour!
I had a similar situation this morning.
I woke up early, and decided to try out Frank's method.
I turned on the light intending to stay awake for 30 minutes or so, and get motivated and focussed without being too tired. Unfortunately, as soon as I turned the light on, my cats assumed it must be breakfast time, and jumped on the bed howling at me for their food.
I didn't fancy going downstairs to open a can of cat food at that time in the morning, so I turned the light off and went back to sleep again
There is no doubt in my mind that the gentle, unforced raising of the point of consciousness/awareness, and focus on the brow chakra area is the key to this - and it makes alot of sense as well.
When the vibrations arrive, there appears to be a decision to make then as to whether to allow the vibrations take you into the Astral, or slow everything down to project into the physical first - and then the Astral later.
A relaxed state is clearly required - although, it seems, not as much as other methods, and neither I suspect is a deep trance state. The most recommended projection position is sitting in an armchair with neck supported, and head straight up. I reckon that position, with a few minutes relaxation or meditation follwed by the raising of the awareness and brow chakra focus might also be highly effective.
I also intent to try raising energy to that area first before an attempt to see what happens - that could be very interesting.
Please keep the ideas and progress reports coming - I am very hopeful we can derive a very worthwhile projection method out of all of this
With best regards,
Adrian.
quote:
Hey Frank! Or anyone else! ;) -
I have been trying your "raise the eyes/consciousness" technique with some encourging signs while sitting down and meditating.
Questions:
1. You say you do this in the early morning. I have also been trying that. From what state/position do you start? Do you wake up, continue to lie in bed without getting up, and just go right into it? Or, do you wake yourself up a bit first, and then lie back down and try it?
2. Reason I am asking is that when I wake up, at say 4:30AM, if I just continue to lie there in bed and jump right into the technique, I seem to be too much in a sleep daze, or something. Hard to concentrate.
If I get up, putter around a bit, take a shower even, and then try it sitting in my chair, I seem to be more easily able to enter a trance/meditative state. Well, that is if I am understanding any of this at all to begin with, haha.
Comments? Thanks heaps.
I had a similar situation this morning.
I woke up early, and decided to try out Frank's method.
I turned on the light intending to stay awake for 30 minutes or so, and get motivated and focussed without being too tired. Unfortunately, as soon as I turned the light on, my cats assumed it must be breakfast time, and jumped on the bed howling at me for their food.
I didn't fancy going downstairs to open a can of cat food at that time in the morning, so I turned the light off and went back to sleep again
There is no doubt in my mind that the gentle, unforced raising of the point of consciousness/awareness, and focus on the brow chakra area is the key to this - and it makes alot of sense as well.
When the vibrations arrive, there appears to be a decision to make then as to whether to allow the vibrations take you into the Astral, or slow everything down to project into the physical first - and then the Astral later.
A relaxed state is clearly required - although, it seems, not as much as other methods, and neither I suspect is a deep trance state. The most recommended projection position is sitting in an armchair with neck supported, and head straight up. I reckon that position, with a few minutes relaxation or meditation follwed by the raising of the awareness and brow chakra focus might also be highly effective.
I also intent to try raising energy to that area first before an attempt to see what happens - that could be very interesting.
Please keep the ideas and progress reports coming - I am very hopeful we can derive a very worthwhile projection method out of all of this
With best regards,
Adrian.
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Frank on April 06, 2002, 03:54:09
Post by: Frank on April 06, 2002, 03:54:09
Because I habitually go to bed early (very rare to see me up after 10pm) I awake naturally around 4am. Also, I eat very light in the evening. Just a portion of Basmati rice (my favourite!) with either some steamed vegetables or a mixed salad. For drinks I enjoy a couple of glasses of beer or wine to "take the edge off" as I call it. I certainly wouldn't advise you to intake any tea or coffee at this time because, if you are the same as me, it will interrupt your sleep patterns (as will too much alchohol, hic). Plus, I don't know if this is significant or not, but I never eat foods such as cakes, biscuits, chocolates etc.
I think diet is important only to the extent you don't get disturbed in the night.
In the sense that you need to awake feeling fairly fresh and revived but in a relaxed state, i.e. no feelings of bloatedness, feeling hungover, headaches, neck tension from having "slept funny" and so forth.
I imagine if you were forcing yourself to arise by use of an alarm clock then it would perhaps be beneficial to get out of bed and have a small cup of light tea. This would raise your awareness enough so that you don't just fall back to sleep. The reason I say this is because on the rare occassion that I do go to bed late, I still seem to awaken at around the same time due to sheer force of habit. But when I start to try and project, more often than not, at the later stages in the process I automatically roll on my side and go to sleep without realising it.
Okay, so I naturally awake, have a little stretch, then lie on my back, arms by my side with elbows slightly bent, and hands resting naturally either side of my hips. Please understand you don't need to follow this robotically! If your hands feel more comfortable with your elbows straight, say, then fine. What I do feel is important, however, is that you are lying on your back and your head is supported. Reason being I've found it virtually impossible to project when lying on my side.
Then you let your eyes roll back and imagine your sense of consciousness floating upwards. Or use the ROPE method if you find that easier. All you need is a little meta-physical imagery to kickstart the process. But do please always bear in mind that it is not the meta-physical imagery, in itself, that makes you project. As fantastic and as surreal as it may appear, the act of projection is a natural bodily function. Just as we have natural powers of sight, taste, smell, hearing and touch: the body does have the seemingly magical power to naturally detect a level of existence we term the Astral. Not only that, we also contain within us the ability to project our sense of conscious awareness into it.
With me, depending on how I feel, I can project in 5 minutes or sometimes it may take an hour. This morning it took about 20 minutes. But around 3 times in 10 attempts I either get bored trying; or the dogs start barking at the foxes; or some other disturbance comes about, like, heavy rain pelting against the window, strong winds, or whatever.
The important thing is to concentrate on keeping your mind firmly affixed on the process. But don't think so hard! In analysing what I am doing, on a step-by-step basis over the past week, I found that there is definitely a point where you can use TOO MUCH concentration.
What happens is, the harder you concentrate the more "it" resists you. Keep on doing that and all that happens is you get into a downward spiral. Which is where I suspect most people who try Astral projection and fail, end up. Please understand you don't need any kind of harsh concentration coupled with any real degree of fixed determination. We are not fighting a war here! Yes, you do need a little concentration, obviously, else your mind would simply drift. But, again, the key word here is "little".
Let's just say, for a moment, that the key to successful Astral Projection was imagining the right kind of "dancing" in your mind. But, let's also say, we had no concept of the act of dancing in the physical world. When I say dancing I mean simply human-beings dancing to music.
If you could imagine that one particular way of dancing in your mind... whoosh... projection would be ignited. But with no visual concept of dance, in the physical world, the only means of communicating the actions would be through words.
So say the correct kind of dancing you had to imagine was classical ballet. Now, the problem would be, we'd have a large number of people all thinking along the correct lines alright... but they are imagining being in a nightclub dancing to Rock 'n Roll.
Yours,
Frank
Coming together is the beginning;
Keeping together is progress;
Working together is success.
Henry Ford
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Adrian on April 06, 2002, 07:15:55
Post by: Adrian on April 06, 2002, 07:15:55
Greetings Frank!
Comments below:
I definitely agree on diet. If you tried to project at any time feeling bloated, drunk or hung-over, it has to be a waste of time. Even if you did manage it, the experience might be highly questionable if not unsafe.
I eat very lighly as well. No breakfast or lunch, and very often just something on bread for dinner during the week, and I also enjoy rice or salad at the weekends - particularly now the weather is improving. I have given up drinking alcohol completely.
This is what I have found on the three times I have tried this early morning so far. Once the cats wanted their breakfast, another time I did not get up and fell asleep again, and the final time I did get up, but had no complete success later with the method.
It appears to be a universally agreed fact that you cannot project on your side.
Lying down flat, or in a well supporting chair (which appears to be the best method)is the way to go.
This is the nitty gritty of the matter! I am still finding myself trying to visualise my awareness (and succeeding), and trying to *move* it to my brow. I think this is the same problem I have with any imaganitive as opposed to visualisation method - and one I need to overcome. Many projection methods are visual of course.
Frank - do you allow your point of consciousness to just rise to the centre of your forehead and then focus on it, or do you allow it to carry on rising up ad-infinitum until projection occurs?
I guess patience is a key factor as well. When you feel vibrations - what happens then? it is usual to use an exit technique - do you just suddenly find yourself in the Astral straight after the vibrations, and without doing anymore? How do you know when you are there?
My guess is that that is the biggest problem of all. People want to project so desperately, they simply try too hard and fail.
Yes - that is what I was saying above! This I think is the single biggest problem.
But other techniques, like point shift, rely on the opposite - there you have to apply incredible amounts of focus and concentration to project - and hold it for up to 30'.
Relaxation and mind state are also evidently important as well.
Thanks again Frank!
I think the process is coming together.
I would still like to know whether your method can be reliably used to project during the day from a sitting position, rather than just early in the morning?
With best regards,
Adrian.
[/quote]
Comments below:
quote:
Because I habitually go to bed early (very rare to see me up after 10pm) I awake naturally around 4am. Also, I eat very light in the evening. Just a portion of Basmati rice (my favourite!) with either some steamed vegetables or a mixed salad. For drinks I enjoy a couple of glasses of beer or wine to "take the edge off" as I call it. I certainly wouldn't advise you to intake any tea or coffee at this time because, if you are the same as me, it will interrupt your sleep patterns (as will too much alchohol, hic). Plus, I don't know if this is significant or not, but I never eat foods such as cakes, biscuits, chocolates etc.
I think diet is important only to the extent you don't get disturbed in the night.
In the sense that you need to awake feeling fairly fresh and revived but in a relaxed state, i.e. no feelings of bloatedness, feeling hungover, headaches, neck tension from having "slept funny" and so forth.
I definitely agree on diet. If you tried to project at any time feeling bloated, drunk or hung-over, it has to be a waste of time. Even if you did manage it, the experience might be highly questionable if not unsafe.
I eat very lighly as well. No breakfast or lunch, and very often just something on bread for dinner during the week, and I also enjoy rice or salad at the weekends - particularly now the weather is improving. I have given up drinking alcohol completely.
quote:
I imagine if you were forcing yourself to arise by use of an alarm clock then it would perhaps be beneficial to get out of bed and have a small cup of light tea. This would raise your awareness enough so that you don't just fall back to sleep. The reason I say this is because on the rare occassion that I do go to bed late, I still seem to awaken at around the same time due to sheer force of habit. But when I start to try and project, more often than not, at the later stages in the process I automatically roll on my side and go to sleep without realising it.
This is what I have found on the three times I have tried this early morning so far. Once the cats wanted their breakfast, another time I did not get up and fell asleep again, and the final time I did get up, but had no complete success later with the method.
quote:
Okay, so I naturally awake, have a little stretch, then lie on my back, arms by my side with elbows slightly bent, and hands resting naturally either side of my hips. Please understand you don't need to follow this robotically! If your hands feel more comfortable with your elbows straight, say, then fine. What I do feel is important, however, is that you are lying on your back and your head is supported. Reason being I've found it virtually impossible to project when lying on my side.
It appears to be a universally agreed fact that you cannot project on your side.
Lying down flat, or in a well supporting chair (which appears to be the best method)is the way to go.
quote:
Then you let your eyes roll back and imagine your sense of consciousness floating upwards. Or use the ROPE method if you find that easier. All you need is a little meta-physical imagery to kickstart the process. But do please always bear in mind that it is not the meta-physical imagery, in itself, that makes you project. As fantastic and as surreal as it may appear, the act of projection is a natural bodily function. Just as we have natural powers of sight, taste, smell, hearing and touch: the body does have the seemingly magical power to naturally detect a level of existence we term the Astral. Not only that, we also contain within us the ability to project our sense of conscious awareness into it.
This is the nitty gritty of the matter! I am still finding myself trying to visualise my awareness (and succeeding), and trying to *move* it to my brow. I think this is the same problem I have with any imaganitive as opposed to visualisation method - and one I need to overcome. Many projection methods are visual of course.
Frank - do you allow your point of consciousness to just rise to the centre of your forehead and then focus on it, or do you allow it to carry on rising up ad-infinitum until projection occurs?
quote:
With me, depending on how I feel, I can project in 5 minutes or sometimes it may take an hour. This morning it took about 20 minutes. But around 3 times in 10 attempts I either get bored trying; or the dogs start barking at the foxes; or some other disturbance comes about, like, heavy rain pelting against the window, strong winds, or whatever.
I guess patience is a key factor as well. When you feel vibrations - what happens then? it is usual to use an exit technique - do you just suddenly find yourself in the Astral straight after the vibrations, and without doing anymore? How do you know when you are there?
quote:
The important thing is to concentrate on keeping your mind firmly affixed on the process. But don't think so hard! In analysing what I am doing, on a step-by-step basis over the past week, I found that there is definitely a point where you can use TOO MUCH concentration.
My guess is that that is the biggest problem of all. People want to project so desperately, they simply try too hard and fail.
quote:
What happens is, the harder you concentrate the more "it" resists you. Keep on doing that and all that happens is you get into a downward spiral. Which is where I suspect most people who try Astral projection and fail, end up. Please understand you don't need any kind of harsh concentration coupled with any real degree of fixed determination. We are not fighting a war here! Yes, you do need a little concentration, obviously, else your mind would simply drift. But, again, the key word here is "little".
Yes - that is what I was saying above! This I think is the single biggest problem.
But other techniques, like point shift, rely on the opposite - there you have to apply incredible amounts of focus and concentration to project - and hold it for up to 30'.
Relaxation and mind state are also evidently important as well.
quote:
Let's just say, for a moment, that the key to successful Astral Projection was imagining the right kind of "dancing" in your mind. But, let's also say, we had no concept of the act of dancing in the physical world. When I say dancing I mean simply human-beings dancing to music.
If you could imagine that one particular way of dancing in your mind... whoosh... projection would be ignited. But with no visual concept of dance, in the physical world, the only means of communicating the actions would be through words.
So say the correct kind of dancing you had to imagine was classical ballet. Now, the problem would be, we'd have a large number of people all thinking along the correct lines alright... but they are imagining being in a nightclub dancing to Rock 'n Roll.
Yours,
Frank
Coming together is the beginning;
Keeping together is progress;
Working together is success.
Henry Ford
Thanks again Frank!
I think the process is coming together.
I would still like to know whether your method can be reliably used to project during the day from a sitting position, rather than just early in the morning?
With best regards,
Adrian.
[/quote]
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: andy on April 06, 2002, 08:05:01
Post by: andy on April 06, 2002, 08:05:01
Im wondering if you can elaborate on the eyes part.Is this imagery or pysicaly inwhich you roll them back?
I tried this early this morning to pysicaly to roll them back but found the flutering effect to be a bit much and aborted the idea thinking I got the method wrong.
I think it sounds interesting and lookforward to giving it a go.
Thanks!
I tried this early this morning to pysicaly to roll them back but found the flutering effect to be a bit much and aborted the idea thinking I got the method wrong.
I think it sounds interesting and lookforward to giving it a go.
Thanks!
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Adrian on April 06, 2002, 08:26:38
Post by: Adrian on April 06, 2002, 08:26:38
Greetings Andy!
quote:
Im wondering if you can elaborate on the eyes part.Is this imagery or pysicaly inwhich you roll them back?
I tried this early this morning to pysicaly to roll them back but found the flutering effect to be a bit much and aborted the idea thinking I got the method wrong.
I think it sounds interesting and lookforward to giving it a go.
Thanks!
You *physically* roll your eyes back and focus them upwards - as if you are looking at the centre of your forehead - which you are doing in fact - the area of the brow chakra.
The idea is to move your point of consciousness away from the area between your eyes, and *allow* it to drift to the brow chakra area - upon which you focus.
I don't know yet whether one allows the point of awareness to drift further - i.e. out of the top of ones head - I await Frank's directions on that one.
As I mentioned elswhere - the brow chakra focus makes a great deal of sense for many reasons, but also Tibbetan and Buddhist Monks use it as a major part of their activities.
With best regards,
Adrian.
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: andy on April 06, 2002, 08:51:27
Post by: andy on April 06, 2002, 08:51:27
Thanks for your response Adrian.So is the fluttering of the eyes normal or am I rolling them to far back?
Should the fluttering be light or semi-heavy?
Should the fluttering be light or semi-heavy?
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Frank on April 06, 2002, 09:00:26
Post by: Frank on April 06, 2002, 09:00:26
Frank - do you allow your point of consciousness to just rise to the centre of your forehead and then focus on it, or do you allow it to carry on rising up ad-infinitum until projection occurs?
If I concentrate on anything it is allowing myself to be still.
Right now I'm imagining an orchestra and the conductor is doing his thing and he is leading the orchestra to the point where there is about to be a beautifully romantic violin solo. Ever so gradually each section of instruments will fade away. Yet there will be a common musical thread that has been sewn into the music that you know will be left for that one violin.
That is how you shut down your mind. It is a graceful and gradual process. Yet I fear what people do is concentrate hard on blocking-out stray thoughts. But doing such a thing is very self-defeating.
I guess patience is a key factor as well. When you feel vibrations - what happens then? it is usual to use an exit technique - do you just suddenly find yourself in the Astral straight after the vibrations, and without doing anymore? How do you know when you are there?
Patience is THE key factor. Any feelings of frustration, despair, anger, and such like, are a DIRECT BLOCK to projection.
It's funny how you ask about what happens because I was practising exiting the physical in various ways and seeing what the effects would be. Okay, here's what typically happens to me when I go direct to the Astral.
The vibrations begin and they last for about 3 seconds. Then there is a feeling of an intensification of energy and immediately I lift up for a split second and then... whoosh... I accelerate RAPIDLY upwards and forwards. The degree of acceleration I would estimate is that of accelerating from a standstill to 100 mph in about 1 second (I used to be into drag-racing). In a vehicle you feel a push in the back... travelling to the Astral I feel more of a pull from the chest.
After which I end up in some Astral place or other and begin interacting with my surroundings. I have not yet developed the skill to control the process such that I can determine exactly where I will end up. :(
But this morning I was concentrating on projecting progessively more slowly.
If when the vibrations begin you just turn around and kinda flop out of the physical, you end up in the RT zone. But what I found was, if I do not whoosh-off fast enough then I drop back down into my body. I tried what must have been 6 attempts at slowing down the acceleration at the exit. But each time I quickly fell back. Also, I found the attempts were very draining, energy wise.
In my final attempt I left the physical but, as I dropped back, I spun sideways and landed across my wife. This had a very unusual effect, to say the least!
In my sense of conscious-awareness I actually felt like I had landed across her body *exactly* as if I had done such a thing in the physical. Now, a very strange thing happened... we spoke. In fact, she told me off! She actually started cussing me about taking up her side of the bed. Which was very confusing I have to say. Especially as she remembered not one iota of the experience.
I would still like to know whether your method can be reliably used to project during the day from a sitting position, rather than just early in the morning?
I have no idea because I only ever project early morning, sorry.
Yours,
Frank
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: DjMidgetMan on April 06, 2002, 12:16:05
Post by: DjMidgetMan on April 06, 2002, 12:16:05
Ive been trying the method for the last couple days, and I think im making some progress.... Frank, you know how you say that when you take it slow, you can feel the vibrations coming in a limb softly?? But when you do it normally, the vibrations come out of nowhere??? Last night, I tried your method, and I felt slight vibrations coming in from my left leg/thigh, but they stayed slight.... How close was I???
DjMidgetMan
"Mind over Matter"
DjMidgetMan
"Mind over Matter"
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Adrian on April 06, 2002, 12:24:46
Post by: Adrian on April 06, 2002, 12:24:46
Greetings DJ!
On the only occasion I have been able to try this method in the early morning so far, I have felt a deep tingling all over from nowhere while focussing.
I am not sure how close that is to Frank's own definition of vibrations in accordance with this method?
Vibrations are actually all of your major and minor chakra centres opening, and energy movements though them - that is what happens naturally during sleep.
With best regards,
Adrian.
On the only occasion I have been able to try this method in the early morning so far, I have felt a deep tingling all over from nowhere while focussing.
I am not sure how close that is to Frank's own definition of vibrations in accordance with this method?
Vibrations are actually all of your major and minor chakra centres opening, and energy movements though them - that is what happens naturally during sleep.
With best regards,
Adrian.
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Arena on April 06, 2002, 15:04:12
Post by: Arena on April 06, 2002, 15:04:12
Hi Adrian, Frank, and Everyone else,
I too, have stumbled on this "technique" but have not tried it as a method by itself yet. One of my many approaches is to do anything that intensifies energetic sensation. Focusing on my third eye by rolling my eyes back, definitely can increase vibrations and other energetic sensations. I also recommend doing an internal brushing down kind of movement inside your forehead or third eye. Robert described a similar Brow center stimulation technique in his Training Guide to Seeing Auras. I also do many other kinds of energy movements, but find that most are hard to describe, because they are energy movements, and are not physical. For example, if I have a falling sensation, I then try to repeat it, and end up stumbling onto an energy movement that leads to that falling feeling.
So far for me, lucid dreaming, astral projection, altered deep trance states, etc... all seem to be one whole continuum. There isn't a clear demarcation that says now I am definitely out. Although, it does feel like my consciousness gets looser and looser and freer and freer, and all kinds of "journeys" and experiences happen. Like my body is asleep, and my consciousness is awake and lucid and free. Time and space feel very simultaneous, like it's all here and happening all at once. It's not a matter of going anywhere, but more like it all comes at, or to me. I can be open and receptive and just see what comes, or I can intend and create, and thus move into what I want.
I do think projection is easier and more ordinary and basic than we make it out to be. Some time ago, I noticed that all the people who have regular OBE's or lucid dreams, are really into it. They devote a lot of time and focus to doing it. Soon after I made the decision to devote myself to it, lots started happening.
All types of OBE methods and attempts seem to strengthen the energy body and lead to greater energetic development. It's exciting when you finally feel like you're living a whole life. Waking life seems like it's only half of our experience/existence. A key seems to be to enjoy whatever part of it you are able to do, or whatever it is that you are experiencing. All kinds of weird and uncomfortable sensations can become pleasurable if you allow yourself to sink into and enjoy them. All OBE techniques can be a fun and pleasurable journey in and of themselves.
I hope I didn't stray too much from the topic here and I hope this is helpful.
Arena
I too, have stumbled on this "technique" but have not tried it as a method by itself yet. One of my many approaches is to do anything that intensifies energetic sensation. Focusing on my third eye by rolling my eyes back, definitely can increase vibrations and other energetic sensations. I also recommend doing an internal brushing down kind of movement inside your forehead or third eye. Robert described a similar Brow center stimulation technique in his Training Guide to Seeing Auras. I also do many other kinds of energy movements, but find that most are hard to describe, because they are energy movements, and are not physical. For example, if I have a falling sensation, I then try to repeat it, and end up stumbling onto an energy movement that leads to that falling feeling.
So far for me, lucid dreaming, astral projection, altered deep trance states, etc... all seem to be one whole continuum. There isn't a clear demarcation that says now I am definitely out. Although, it does feel like my consciousness gets looser and looser and freer and freer, and all kinds of "journeys" and experiences happen. Like my body is asleep, and my consciousness is awake and lucid and free. Time and space feel very simultaneous, like it's all here and happening all at once. It's not a matter of going anywhere, but more like it all comes at, or to me. I can be open and receptive and just see what comes, or I can intend and create, and thus move into what I want.
I do think projection is easier and more ordinary and basic than we make it out to be. Some time ago, I noticed that all the people who have regular OBE's or lucid dreams, are really into it. They devote a lot of time and focus to doing it. Soon after I made the decision to devote myself to it, lots started happening.
All types of OBE methods and attempts seem to strengthen the energy body and lead to greater energetic development. It's exciting when you finally feel like you're living a whole life. Waking life seems like it's only half of our experience/existence. A key seems to be to enjoy whatever part of it you are able to do, or whatever it is that you are experiencing. All kinds of weird and uncomfortable sensations can become pleasurable if you allow yourself to sink into and enjoy them. All OBE techniques can be a fun and pleasurable journey in and of themselves.
I hope I didn't stray too much from the topic here and I hope this is helpful.
Arena
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Adrian on April 06, 2002, 15:19:57
Post by: Adrian on April 06, 2002, 15:19:57
Greetings Arena!
That was most useful - thanks for your contribution
In Astral Dynamics, Robert describes an additional brow chakra stimulation method, which is approximately as follows:
Using awareness hands, do a stirring motion on each temple on each side of your head for about 20 seconds. After that - bounce your awareness from one temple to the other and back again, and continue with that bouncing motion. That would be after raising energy directly to the brow chakra area in the usual way. This can cause alot of activity!
I really do believe that we have something here though, thanks to Frank and everyone else who has joined in. Shifting consciousness upwards, and in particular focus on the brow chakra, has *many* precedents, in mant traditions for psychic effects, including Astral projection - I have named Tibettan and Buddhist Monks as two examples - there are many others. I think the discussion is centreing on achieving the necessary levels of relaxation and trance now, which can be achieved automatically by waking early morning, and also exit techniques.
It isn't unsual to use chakras as a basis for projection - I have read that many people visualise doors in either their solar plexus, heart or brow chakras, and exit through them.
Please keep the ideas and experiences coming!
With best regards,
Adrian.
quote:
Hi Adrian, Frank, and Everyone else,
I too, have stumbled on this "technique" but have not tried it as a method by itself yet. One of my many approaches is to do anything that intensifies energetic sensation. Focusing on my third eye by rolling my eyes back, definitely can increase vibrations and other energetic sensations. I also recommend doing an internal brushing down kind of movement inside your forehead or third eye. Robert described a similar Brow center stimulation technique in his Training Guide to Seeing Auras. I also do many other kinds
Arena
That was most useful - thanks for your contribution
In Astral Dynamics, Robert describes an additional brow chakra stimulation method, which is approximately as follows:
Using awareness hands, do a stirring motion on each temple on each side of your head for about 20 seconds. After that - bounce your awareness from one temple to the other and back again, and continue with that bouncing motion. That would be after raising energy directly to the brow chakra area in the usual way. This can cause alot of activity!
I really do believe that we have something here though, thanks to Frank and everyone else who has joined in. Shifting consciousness upwards, and in particular focus on the brow chakra, has *many* precedents, in mant traditions for psychic effects, including Astral projection - I have named Tibettan and Buddhist Monks as two examples - there are many others. I think the discussion is centreing on achieving the necessary levels of relaxation and trance now, which can be achieved automatically by waking early morning, and also exit techniques.
It isn't unsual to use chakras as a basis for projection - I have read that many people visualise doors in either their solar plexus, heart or brow chakras, and exit through them.
Please keep the ideas and experiences coming!
With best regards,
Adrian.
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: dashour on April 06, 2002, 16:43:02
Post by: dashour on April 06, 2002, 16:43:02
Hello Adrian, and Frank and who ever else can answer-
Thanks for the reply to my questions about early morning/waking up etc. What I am getting at, but still a bit confused about, is this:
TOO SLEEPY, CAN SOMEBODY HELP?
1. When I wake up in the early morning, also naturaly, like Frank does, if I just continue to lie in bed and try to project, I feel like I am "drugged". In other words, still so sleepy that it is hard to concentrate or focus at all on anything. So, I find that I have to get up and fully wake up first. However, if I do that, then I fear I lose the whole point of doing it early like that to take advantage of the naturally relaxed trance state that sleep gives us. Any comments?
Frank, does it hurt to wake one's self up fully, or should that be avoided, and should I learn to work with the sleepy drugged feeling, and take advantage of it the way it is?
WAKING UP AFTER 6 HOURS FOR A LUCID DREAM
2. I have tried several times in the past the technique of waking up after 6 hours, staying awake for 20-30 minutes and reading something related to this subject, then going back to sleep to induce a kucid dream. This technique definately has worked for me. Not every time, but a high percentage, and I highly recommend it. It is described in the book by Rick Stack called "Out of Body Adventures".
Regards,
Jack (Dashour)
Thanks for the reply to my questions about early morning/waking up etc. What I am getting at, but still a bit confused about, is this:
TOO SLEEPY, CAN SOMEBODY HELP?
1. When I wake up in the early morning, also naturaly, like Frank does, if I just continue to lie in bed and try to project, I feel like I am "drugged". In other words, still so sleepy that it is hard to concentrate or focus at all on anything. So, I find that I have to get up and fully wake up first. However, if I do that, then I fear I lose the whole point of doing it early like that to take advantage of the naturally relaxed trance state that sleep gives us. Any comments?
Frank, does it hurt to wake one's self up fully, or should that be avoided, and should I learn to work with the sleepy drugged feeling, and take advantage of it the way it is?
WAKING UP AFTER 6 HOURS FOR A LUCID DREAM
2. I have tried several times in the past the technique of waking up after 6 hours, staying awake for 20-30 minutes and reading something related to this subject, then going back to sleep to induce a kucid dream. This technique definately has worked for me. Not every time, but a high percentage, and I highly recommend it. It is described in the book by Rick Stack called "Out of Body Adventures".
Regards,
Jack (Dashour)
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Adrian on April 06, 2002, 16:49:14
Post by: Adrian on April 06, 2002, 16:49:14
Greetings Dashour
You might want to consider converting a Lucid Dream into an OBE. I can't advise you on how to accomplish that - maybe someone else here can - but it is a recognised route to getting to the true OBE state.
With best regards,
Adrian.
quote:
WAKING UP AFTER 6 HOURS FOR A LUCID DREAM
2. I have tried several times in the past the technique of waking up after 6 hours, staying awake for 20-30 minutes and reading something related to this subject, then going back to sleep to induce a kucid dream. This technique definately has worked for me. Not every time, but a high percentage, and I highly recommend it. It is described in the book by Rick Stack called "Out of Body Adventures".
Regards,
Jack (Dashour)
You might want to consider converting a Lucid Dream into an OBE. I can't advise you on how to accomplish that - maybe someone else here can - but it is a recognised route to getting to the true OBE state.
With best regards,
Adrian.
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: dashour on April 06, 2002, 17:11:15
Post by: dashour on April 06, 2002, 17:11:15
Adrian - yes, I understand the idea of turning it in to a full fledged OEB, but my problem that I have with every lucid dream is that once I am lucid, it's like "Hey! YAHOO! I did it! WOW, look at that thing over there! Look at that mountain, or whatever. "OK I'm gonna fly now" (so I start flapping my arms - hey - it works) "I'm flying like a bird! WEeeee!"
You see, I am having way too much fun to go "OK, let's calm down now and try for a OBE".
Not wanting to let go of one reality in order to to enter and realize a possibly more rewarding one, is a basic problem of consciousness, and all spiritual disciplines, no?
Love, devotion, surrender,
Dashour
You see, I am having way too much fun to go "OK, let's calm down now and try for a OBE".
Not wanting to let go of one reality in order to to enter and realize a possibly more rewarding one, is a basic problem of consciousness, and all spiritual disciplines, no?
Love, devotion, surrender,
Dashour
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: DOA on April 06, 2002, 19:27:38
Post by: DOA on April 06, 2002, 19:27:38
I had worked and worked on lucid dreaming and everytime I became lucid in a dream id get so excited id wake up. This probably happened a dozen times so one time I realized I was dreaming and I said so what im just gonna wake up all depressed but then i realized i didnt wake up.. Then I asked out loud to go visit a friend and wind picked me up and i flew into a tunnell and then i saw a light and I fell out of the tunnel and landed on that person. I believe I went from the astral to the real time zone and it was a strong request. I believe you have to remain calm in the lucid dream and you have to think ahead and plan what you want to do affirmations and the like. When ever I would become lucid Id have a strong sexual desire and this took me a long time to get over as well. I had to firmly set in my mind what I wanted to do before hand.
DOA
DOA
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Roger on April 06, 2002, 21:08:22
Post by: Roger on April 06, 2002, 21:08:22
I did the raising of awareness to my third eye last night and rolled my eyes back so that they were looking towards it. Every time I did, within a few seconds, there was an astounding sense of expansiveness almost like I was falling into it (out of it?) and the vibrations would begin. This seems to be an excellent new beginning technique so far. I had very strange dreams and half-sleep-induced images that night.
Sadly, my eyes would get tired quickly and I couldn't hold it very long. Perhaps as we try it a little more, our eyes will become accustomed to it.
Sadly, my eyes would get tired quickly and I couldn't hold it very long. Perhaps as we try it a little more, our eyes will become accustomed to it.
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: bitsmart on April 07, 2002, 03:13:42
Post by: bitsmart on April 07, 2002, 03:13:42
Arena, I think I know the energy movement that causes a falling sensation you refer to. If we're talking about the same one, it is pretty hard to describe. I make this intense...'thing' in my head/mind, and immediately energy all over my body is increased. It's extremely effective, and if I push it hard enough eventually my muscles will spasm briefly. I think this spasm is almost like an 'overflow' of energy.
Besides that, I also do lots of energy movements, limited only by my imagination, my favorite of which is the vortex of energy around my body; I'm a Gemini, an air sign.
On a seperate note, I usually wake up shortly after my dreams become lucid. My most recent one, I became lucid and stopped everything I was doing, and just let it stabilize. Then like an idiot I thought I'd fly straight up as fast as I could (I still don't know why, I guess I thought it would shift me into the Astral.) Clouds blurred by and then I woke up. Whee.
If you have a problem with waking after becoming lucid, try looking at the ground, or just doing nothing, to stabilize the dream. Maybe some experienced LDers could add some stuff, as I'm not experienced at all, I was just sharing my personal experience with stabilizing.
bitsmart -
information illumination -
bitsmart@bitsmart.org -
Besides that, I also do lots of energy movements, limited only by my imagination, my favorite of which is the vortex of energy around my body; I'm a Gemini, an air sign.
On a seperate note, I usually wake up shortly after my dreams become lucid. My most recent one, I became lucid and stopped everything I was doing, and just let it stabilize. Then like an idiot I thought I'd fly straight up as fast as I could (I still don't know why, I guess I thought it would shift me into the Astral.) Clouds blurred by and then I woke up. Whee.
If you have a problem with waking after becoming lucid, try looking at the ground, or just doing nothing, to stabilize the dream. Maybe some experienced LDers could add some stuff, as I'm not experienced at all, I was just sharing my personal experience with stabilizing.
bitsmart -
information illumination -
bitsmart@bitsmart.org -
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Frank on April 07, 2002, 04:26:41
Post by: Frank on April 07, 2002, 04:26:41
I'll reply to the other points raised a little later on as right now I'm a bit busy with some work. But I took a quick look at a document referred to on another thread. I'm sorry I forgot who it was, but thank you for that as it contained something HIGHLY significant to me (it's the document on my Chakra thread where it says to scroll to section 6.1).
Okay, people on this thread have mentioned about this "third eye" and, yes, I too imagine looking out from a point in that region. However, when I think about letting my consciousness drift upwards... I definitely do say to think about it drifting upwards like it was going through the top of your head. Because, to me, that's exactly what it feels like. But at the same time I am imagining "looking out" from a point where I said to Mr DJ to paint an imaginary red dot on his forehead.
Right, I've just realised why all that is necessary!
This is what the document says...
"........The awakening of the third-eye chakra leads to clairvoyance or the ability to see on the nonphysical planes. And the awakening of the crown center is associated both with the ability to consciously travel on the nonphysical planes and with it the process of enlightenment."
That's it, in a nutshell. I couldn't believe it when I read it.
Okay, call me thick, but I never really realised why it all worked, until this moment. Because I never understood anything about all this Chakra stuff. Yes, I have seen images of pyramid shapes with a big eye in the centre and all that jazz. But I could never relate to any of it.
But now I've realised that there is this Crown Chakra that sets the process off. That's exactly what it feels like! In the sense that Adrian has been asking about how far you imagine letting your consciousness drift upwards, and so forth. And I am saying, no, you don't need to worry about that because you get to the stage where the meta-physical imagery will kickstart the natural process of projection.
It really does feel exactly like there comes a point where a switch is thrown and... whoosh... the whole process begins.
It's like being in a dark room and switching on a light. One moment you can't see a thing and then, in an instant, everything becomes visible.
I think that is a good analogy: because in switching on the light, it is not the switch, in itself, that causes the illumination. No, all the switch did was direct the flow of energy to the bulb.
Now, imagine that the bulb is the Chakra. The initial meta-physical imagery is the switch, and the energy is your thought.
That's why you cannot use any old meta-physical imagery directed in any old direction. In the same way that if you want to switch on a particular bulb you have to throw a particular switch. Not only that, it can't be any old thought either. Because the energy has to be directed down a particular wire that leads to the bulb you wish to illuminate.
I'm realising, for the very first time, exactly WHY stray thoughts interrupt the process. I have always known they did, because that is what I experience. But I'm now understanding and realising "why" they do. It is the concentrated thought-energy that switches on the Chakra. If your thoughts are flitting about here and there, then it's like trying to feed a lightbulb with 1 or 2 volts instead of the full 240 volts (UK mains is 240 volts).
This also neatly explains why someone can be concentrating their thoughts alright, but still have zero projection success. Yes, they are concentrating their thoughts... but... sending them in the wrong direction!
Aaaagh... I've just realised...
The Chakra is the bleeding interface!!!!!!!!
I'm sitting here kicking myself that I just didn't realise this before. That's all a Chakra is, it's just an interface.
Speak to you all later, I gotta do some work now.
Yours,
Frank
"I want you to start a crusade in
your life... to dare to be your best"
William Danforth
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: no_skillzz on April 07, 2002, 04:52:09
Post by: no_skillzz on April 07, 2002, 04:52:09
Does anyone remember the Suneye techniques which were sold on Joe Russa's site a few years ago? Those techniques also had a strong emphasis on the Third Eye and also had a high success rate. Who knows... maybe if this technique works well, we'll be seeing it in future OBE books 
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: kifyre on April 07, 2002, 09:44:32
Post by: kifyre on April 07, 2002, 09:44:32
Hmm...
Crown chakra - bioenergetic interface with higher planes?
Third eye - works with crown chakra to process visual images for brain?
Throat chakra - associated with clairaudience, sound?
Heart chakra - supposedly your powerpack/battery for projection.
Extreme oversimplification, but possibly helpful...
...
Has anyone else found gently opening their entire body to be useful? See my progressive relaxation thread.
Once again, hmm...
Mark
Edited by - kifyre on 07 April 2002 19:30:52
Crown chakra - bioenergetic interface with higher planes?
Third eye - works with crown chakra to process visual images for brain?
Throat chakra - associated with clairaudience, sound?
Heart chakra - supposedly your powerpack/battery for projection.
Extreme oversimplification, but possibly helpful...
...
Has anyone else found gently opening their entire body to be useful? See my progressive relaxation thread.
Once again, hmm...
Mark
Edited by - kifyre on 07 April 2002 19:30:52
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Zenchan on April 07, 2002, 12:51:50
Post by: Zenchan on April 07, 2002, 12:51:50
I would like to warn you all not to focus on only one chakra. Over time this can cause an unhealty imbalance. If you are going to use techniques such as the Suneye, please do some other chakra work beforehand, perhaps during meditation, to make sure your other chakra's are in use.
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Dragon on April 08, 2002, 03:15:21
Post by: Dragon on April 08, 2002, 03:15:21
There are alot of people talking about, "Shifting your focus" to your brow...
Where is your focus to begin with? to then be able to shift it?
Do I just roll my eyes, and LOOK? without thought?
Do I talk myself through the process..
Im becoming very lost here.
Thanks for your patience and I realy do thank everybody for your
help.
DB
Where is your focus to begin with? to then be able to shift it?
Do I just roll my eyes, and LOOK? without thought?
Do I talk myself through the process..
Im becoming very lost here.
Thanks for your patience and I realy do thank everybody for your
help.
DB
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Frank on April 08, 2002, 06:13:44
Post by: Frank on April 08, 2002, 06:13:44
quote:
Ive been trying the method for the last couple days, and I think im making some progress.... Frank, you know how you say that when you take it slow, you can feel the vibrations coming in a limb softly?? But when you do it normally, the vibrations come out of nowhere??? Last night, I tried your method, and I felt slight vibrations coming in from my left leg/thigh, but they stayed slight.... How close was I???
DjMidgetMan
"Mind over Matter"
You may have been at the onset stage of vibrations and thought about it. Problem is, actually thinking about it at that stage will tend to take you out of it. Rather like when your attention is disrupted by stray energy. Suddenly your eyes try to focus which interrupts the whole thing and you have to start again. The key thing is to practise every day if you can, and have faith you can do it. If you can get to the vibration stage once, it does get easier next time.
Yours,
Frank
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Frank on April 08, 2002, 06:16:09
Post by: Frank on April 08, 2002, 06:16:09
Quote
There are alot of people talking about, "Shifting your focus" to your brow...
Where is your focus to begin with? to then be able to shift it?
Do I just roll my eyes, and LOOK? without thought?
Do I talk myself through the process..
Im becoming very lost here.
Thanks for your patience and I realy do thank everybody for your
help.
DB
I think maybe reading the previous thread on this topic will help you clear the confusion. We started this thread as the other was getting too long.
Just found it, it's called "Deep physical relaxation" and it's a couple of pages back (at the moment).
Yours,
Frank
Edited by - Frank on 08 April 2002 13:19:32
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Frank on April 08, 2002, 07:12:57
Post by: Frank on April 08, 2002, 07:12:57
quote:
I did the raising of awareness to my third eye last night and rolled my eyes back so that they were looking towards it. Every time I did, within a few seconds, there was an astounding sense of expansiveness almost like I was falling into it (out of it?) and the vibrations would begin. This seems to be an excellent new beginning technique so far. I had very strange dreams and half-sleep-induced images that night.
Sadly, my eyes would get tired quickly and I couldn't hold it very long. Perhaps as we try it a little more, our eyes will become accustomed to it.
Your eyes get into the habit of simply rolling back the moment you want them to. After a while it gets to be so comfortable you feel the need to check you are still actually doing it! I think what happens is the eye muscles stretch to accommodate the action (like any muscle would given time). One thing you might try is to practice some eye exercises a few times a day. Like, look up, down, left, right; then the same but reversed; then around in a circle one way, then the other, and repeat. That kind of thing.
Yours,
Frank
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: dllb on April 11, 2002, 17:14:18
Post by: dllb on April 11, 2002, 17:14:18
I have a basic (dumb) question:
I've been focusing on my brow chakkra and it raises my vibration and energy almost immediately but (here it goes) "are my eyes supposed to be open or closed" as I look up to focus my attention on my brow chakkra?
Thanks
Don
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: SteppenWolf on April 11, 2002, 22:40:58
Post by: SteppenWolf on April 11, 2002, 22:40:58
Actually NoSkillz is right - this is pretty much exactly the same as Joe Russa's Suneye method #1 which you can check out here along with methods 2, 3 and 4:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bwgen/files/suneye_methods.zip
(All in PDF format.)
So not quite a new method, but it's supposed to be pretty damned good from what people have said on other forums.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bwgen/files/suneye_methods.zip
(All in PDF format.)
So not quite a new method, but it's supposed to be pretty damned good from what people have said on other forums.
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Frank on April 12, 2002, 01:41:49
Post by: Frank on April 12, 2002, 01:41:49
quote:
I have a basic (dumb) question:
I've been focusing on my brow chakkra and it raises my vibration and energy almost immediately but (here it goes) "are my eyes supposed to be open or closed" as I look up to focus my attention on my brow chakkra?
Thanks
Don
Personally, my eyes are closed but it's whatever feels most comfortable and most effective to *you* that matters. For conscious-exit obe's you need to perform a particular mental "balancing act" that's a little tricky to do. Because there is not one method that people can just simply do, we have lot's of so-called methods. As a result, the whole thing gets confusing. Particularly as the whole subject of obe's is becoming more commercialised by the day.
The reason why you let your eyes roll upwards is because your sense of conscious awareness tends to reside behind (and follow) your two physical eyes. But what you need to do is let your sense of conscious awareness drift upwards such that it makes a connection with your Astral interface that is present within your brain.
You have 2 basic interfaces within the brain... the Astral and the Physical. Then you have what I call your "sense of conscious awareness" that you can choose to either plug into your inner Physical interface (where it normally connects) or you can plug it into your inner Astral interface (where people are attempting to connect).
The way you make the switch is by basically relaxing and use a little meta-physical imagery to kickstart the natural reconnection process.
Yours,
Frank
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Donna on October 05, 2002, 20:40:37
Post by: Donna on October 05, 2002, 20:40:37
Hi all,
I can only pass along to you my experience. Several years ago when I first became interested in projection, I tryed the SUNEYE method. Setting my alarm clock to awaken after six hours sleep, I drank a cup of coffee and read OBE materials. I went back to bed and closed my eyes, lying on my back and with eyes closed "looked" at the center of my forehead with my eyes rolled up in their sockets. I tired of this after a little while, and went off to sleep.
I then found myself in a classroom, desks, students, teacher and blackboard included. I was standing in the back of the classroom desperately trying to astral project from there, this effort brought me swiftly back to my sleeping body and I awoke with a tingling sensation all over. Quite a lucid dream.
About a year later after learning to project at will, this dream was explained to me. I was to meet some others for our monthly OBE get-together on the real time plane. I had done my usual meditaion, sitting in a chair with bare feet flat on the floor close together, and arms resting on my chair arms. As usual I began shortly to see the colors (violet, blue and white) that form a tunnel that I exit through to arrive at my intended destination. This time I had only started my journey, when confronted by a beautiful little girl. She looked to be six or seven years old, dressed in a white dress, with long blond curls. When she spoke I knew this was no little girl. She instructed me to take her hand, and not to let go. We then flew very swiftly sideways through what seemed to be several "doors" and then straight up very fast. She asked if I could discern the different level of the eithers we were passing through. I answered that I could, seeing what seem like people populating different levels
(like going up in an elevator with clear glass, and seeing each floor). I suddenly got very frightened and let go of her hand, returning immediately to my body.
The next morning I decided to try again to reach my friends on the real time plane for our meeting, as there is "no time" in the realms and all time can be "right now". After coming through my tunnel into the usual starscape, and this time I had asked for a guide, the same little girl was waiting for me. Again I was instructed to take her hand and up we went at an incredible speed. I was taken to a small planet with buildings enclosed by high white gates. As we hovered above this place in the air, still holding hands, the gates suddenly swung open. We proceeded through the gates and I reached out with my left hand and felt the cold smooth stone of the gateway, It was all so real. In the center or a round courthyard was a three tier fountain with vibrant red flowers growing at its' base.
To make a long story shorter, I learned that this was a school in the seventh heaven and that the room I was in in the lucid dream a year earlier was here in one of the classrooms, and that I had actually hurt the teachers' feeling by trying to "astral project" during class. I later appologized to her.
I was also told that there are "watchers" in the angelic realms who keep an eye on our progress, and when we are ready we are introduced into the schools in the realms for higher spiritual learning.
Donna
I can only pass along to you my experience. Several years ago when I first became interested in projection, I tryed the SUNEYE method. Setting my alarm clock to awaken after six hours sleep, I drank a cup of coffee and read OBE materials. I went back to bed and closed my eyes, lying on my back and with eyes closed "looked" at the center of my forehead with my eyes rolled up in their sockets. I tired of this after a little while, and went off to sleep.
I then found myself in a classroom, desks, students, teacher and blackboard included. I was standing in the back of the classroom desperately trying to astral project from there, this effort brought me swiftly back to my sleeping body and I awoke with a tingling sensation all over. Quite a lucid dream.
About a year later after learning to project at will, this dream was explained to me. I was to meet some others for our monthly OBE get-together on the real time plane. I had done my usual meditaion, sitting in a chair with bare feet flat on the floor close together, and arms resting on my chair arms. As usual I began shortly to see the colors (violet, blue and white) that form a tunnel that I exit through to arrive at my intended destination. This time I had only started my journey, when confronted by a beautiful little girl. She looked to be six or seven years old, dressed in a white dress, with long blond curls. When she spoke I knew this was no little girl. She instructed me to take her hand, and not to let go. We then flew very swiftly sideways through what seemed to be several "doors" and then straight up very fast. She asked if I could discern the different level of the eithers we were passing through. I answered that I could, seeing what seem like people populating different levels
(like going up in an elevator with clear glass, and seeing each floor). I suddenly got very frightened and let go of her hand, returning immediately to my body.
The next morning I decided to try again to reach my friends on the real time plane for our meeting, as there is "no time" in the realms and all time can be "right now". After coming through my tunnel into the usual starscape, and this time I had asked for a guide, the same little girl was waiting for me. Again I was instructed to take her hand and up we went at an incredible speed. I was taken to a small planet with buildings enclosed by high white gates. As we hovered above this place in the air, still holding hands, the gates suddenly swung open. We proceeded through the gates and I reached out with my left hand and felt the cold smooth stone of the gateway, It was all so real. In the center or a round courthyard was a three tier fountain with vibrant red flowers growing at its' base.
To make a long story shorter, I learned that this was a school in the seventh heaven and that the room I was in in the lucid dream a year earlier was here in one of the classrooms, and that I had actually hurt the teachers' feeling by trying to "astral project" during class. I later appologized to her.
I was also told that there are "watchers" in the angelic realms who keep an eye on our progress, and when we are ready we are introduced into the schools in the realms for higher spiritual learning.
Donna
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Windameir on October 07, 2002, 07:53:22
Post by: Windameir on October 07, 2002, 07:53:22
Sorry Frank but I have another darn Question ![]("http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif")
Could you tell us more about or describe your, Type of breathing you Use You described it as being something you habitually do, If im understanding you right it you discovered that you do it in preperation and during phasing Thanks.
Happy Travels
Windameir
Could you tell us more about or describe your, Type of breathing you Use You described it as being something you habitually do, If im understanding you right it you discovered that you do it in preperation and during phasing Thanks.
Happy Travels
Windameir
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: shorty on October 10, 2002, 20:38:41
Post by: shorty on October 10, 2002, 20:38:41
Hi everyone!! I've been reading this, and it's really interested me. I just have one problem. I'm blind, and I have very little, if any, control of where my eyes go. Also, my consciousness is mostly in my hands, but I have light perception so there's some in my eyes as well. My point, would it be the same kind of technique moving my consciousness to my third eye? Would i need to adapt the method so that I don't need to roll my eyes back?
Thanks a lot!!!
Michael
Thanks a lot!!!
Michael
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Donna on October 10, 2002, 21:25:58
Post by: Donna on October 10, 2002, 21:25:58
HI Shorty,
Perhaps this will help. Pinch the bridge of your nose lightly just where your brows would meet if they, following their normal curve met in the center of your face. Now up above this fleshly spot about an inch is where the third eye is located.
If you have read and used Roberts' New Energy Way of moving energy through your chakra system you will note that it will enerigize your entire system. After using that, try just concentrating on that spot between your brows, and up an inch. If you do not sense a slight pressure in that area, try rubbing it lightly with a fingertip and concentrate on it again.Some people have said that they have worn a small piece of tape over the third eye to help them concentrate their focus on it.
Hope this helps,
Donna
![]("http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif"){kind=icon}
Title: Developing new OBE method (ex. relaxation topic)
Post by: Adrian on April 05, 2002, 08:11:07
Post by: Adrian on April 05, 2002, 08:11:07
Greetings!
This is really by way of a followup to the things we learnt in the original topic with the above subject, and with the excellent, and much appreciated input by Frank
The topic has provided us with much useful information I believe, and I am sure we can progress this further, and come up with a definitive new OBE method between us.
The original thread was based upon the question of deep relaxation requirements as a pre-cursor to OBE/AP.
Frank then kindly shared his method of AP with us all, and which clearly offers a potentially much easier, and less stressful route to achieving a first, and subsequently reliable Astral Projections.
It is a well known fact that an alternative to artificially induced trance and deep relaxation, is to attempt an OBE after waking up ealier in the morning, e.g. by setting an alarm clock 2 hours earlier.
Frank shared with us the fact that (and please correct me if I am wrong Frank), he normally projects in the early hours of the morning - this of course makes sense from what we know, and would explain the apparent lack of necessity for an artificially induced pre-OBE state.
The first question then is this:
1) Can Frank's method be used at *any* time, e.g. at the time of going to bed, or during the day, just as easily as in the early hours of the morning, and without the usual long deep relaxation and trance induction pre-requisites?
I think the most significant aspect of Frank's method, and one which is certainly confirmed from nay other sources, and we should consider further here, is the focus on the Brow Chakra, and in particular, the moving of the point of awareness to this position. I will not go into great detail here, but it would seem to me that Frank has isolated an *extremely* useful component of projection. My subsequent research in fact has highlighted that similar methods have been used in isolation before, and that in particular, focus on the Brow Chrakra has long been used by Buddhist and Tibbetan Monks, mostly for enlightenment, although they appear to acknowledge that OBE is also a feature of this technique.
The allowing of the point of awareness to rise to the area of the Brow Chakra, and focussing on that area by rolling the eyes back, and maintaining that focus, seems to me to be an *extremely* important point! So:
2) Allow the point of awareness to rise to the area of the Brow Chakra, also known as the Third Eye, and maintain a focus of awareness in that position by rolling the eyes upwards, and maintaining that focus until vibrations occur.
The next interesting fact was that while many people project into the so called "real-time zone" of the Astral, and cannot achieve the dimensional shift to the Astral proper, Frank expereinced the opposite phenomena - projecting straight into the Astral, and not being able to reach the real-time zone. As I side note, I would say that although it is possible to move from the real-time zone to the Astral, I have never before seen a reference of anyone moving from the Astral to the real-time zone. Frank's method seems to connect directly with the Astral, and that is where he stays. It would be most interesting to discover what part of the Astral this represents - i.e. the same as that of Lucid Dreams - the collective psyche - or does it transend this and project to higher levels of the Astral?
I believe the answer here is in the speed of projection. So:
3) If one goes directly with the vibrations, and without any conscious attempt at an exit, the result is a direct connection with the Astral, and some, as yet unknown level. But Frank has since discovered that by slowing things down, or by using a conscious exit method such as Rope, he can project into the real-time zone. Frank has not said yet I don't think, whether he has been able to project further into the Astral from the real-time zone.
Frank also mentions the body "expansion". This, I believe, is due to the projection of the "energy body", and which also is comprised of etheric energy. This energy body, being denser than the Astra-Mental body, keeps the projector in the real-time zone, for such time as the etheric energy of the energy body exists. When the etheric energy expires, the resultant Astra-Mental body then fades into the Astral - that might only become apparent when the "Alice in Wonderland" effect starts to occur - i.e. reality fluctuations such as the sudden appearance of a Cheshire Cat, in what was a real-time environment - or at least a reflection of the real-time environment.
It is also apparent that from the real-time zone, you can project into the Astral using an appropriate technique such as aiming for a point on the horizon, and flying as fast as possible towards that point. The big question then is - where in the Astral do you arrive?
Frank: When you project into the Astral using your current method as described, what sort of entities do you encounter there? Do you encounter Astral wildlife of all types, entities of a wide range of apparent abilities, intelligence levels, and motives, or do you onoy encounter fellow human type entities engaged in various situations?
It seems to me that Franks method can be used to either project directly into the Astral, or into the real-time zone first. It is also apparent that the point of awareness shift to the Brow Chakra is extremely significant in this process.
4) We can also add another factor into the equation, based on another technique for Lucid Dreaming and Astral Projection. That technique involves setting an alarm clock to awake 6 hours after you go to sleep. You then get up for 1 hour, read a book on OBE's etc., go back to bed, and focus on your Brow Chakra until you fall asleep. Soon afterwards you should either enter a Lucid Dream, or awake with "waking paralysis" at which point you do an exit for OBE. It is also possible to get to the waking paralysis stage from a Lucid Dream, by willing yourself to do so.
The big questions arising from this hypothesis so far are:
A) Can Frank's method be used anytime, and not just after waking in the early hours of the morning?
B) What level of the Astral is reached using any of these methods, is it controllable, and is it possible to reach higher levels of the Astral. The associated question is: are these mthods achieving higher levels of projection than the Lucid Dream levels of the individual or collective human psyche?
So there is a brief summary for now of the main issues, perhaps we can use this as a basis to answer more questions, and refine these methods towards an extremely useful OBE tecnique.
With best regards,
Adrian.
This is really by way of a followup to the things we learnt in the original topic with the above subject, and with the excellent, and much appreciated input by Frank
The topic has provided us with much useful information I believe, and I am sure we can progress this further, and come up with a definitive new OBE method between us.
The original thread was based upon the question of deep relaxation requirements as a pre-cursor to OBE/AP.
Frank then kindly shared his method of AP with us all, and which clearly offers a potentially much easier, and less stressful route to achieving a first, and subsequently reliable Astral Projections.
It is a well known fact that an alternative to artificially induced trance and deep relaxation, is to attempt an OBE after waking up ealier in the morning, e.g. by setting an alarm clock 2 hours earlier.
Frank shared with us the fact that (and please correct me if I am wrong Frank), he normally projects in the early hours of the morning - this of course makes sense from what we know, and would explain the apparent lack of necessity for an artificially induced pre-OBE state.
The first question then is this:
1) Can Frank's method be used at *any* time, e.g. at the time of going to bed, or during the day, just as easily as in the early hours of the morning, and without the usual long deep relaxation and trance induction pre-requisites?
I think the most significant aspect of Frank's method, and one which is certainly confirmed from nay other sources, and we should consider further here, is the focus on the Brow Chakra, and in particular, the moving of the point of awareness to this position. I will not go into great detail here, but it would seem to me that Frank has isolated an *extremely* useful component of projection. My subsequent research in fact has highlighted that similar methods have been used in isolation before, and that in particular, focus on the Brow Chrakra has long been used by Buddhist and Tibbetan Monks, mostly for enlightenment, although they appear to acknowledge that OBE is also a feature of this technique.
The allowing of the point of awareness to rise to the area of the Brow Chakra, and focussing on that area by rolling the eyes back, and maintaining that focus, seems to me to be an *extremely* important point! So:
2) Allow the point of awareness to rise to the area of the Brow Chakra, also known as the Third Eye, and maintain a focus of awareness in that position by rolling the eyes upwards, and maintaining that focus until vibrations occur.
The next interesting fact was that while many people project into the so called "real-time zone" of the Astral, and cannot achieve the dimensional shift to the Astral proper, Frank expereinced the opposite phenomena - projecting straight into the Astral, and not being able to reach the real-time zone. As I side note, I would say that although it is possible to move from the real-time zone to the Astral, I have never before seen a reference of anyone moving from the Astral to the real-time zone. Frank's method seems to connect directly with the Astral, and that is where he stays. It would be most interesting to discover what part of the Astral this represents - i.e. the same as that of Lucid Dreams - the collective psyche - or does it transend this and project to higher levels of the Astral?
I believe the answer here is in the speed of projection. So:
3) If one goes directly with the vibrations, and without any conscious attempt at an exit, the result is a direct connection with the Astral, and some, as yet unknown level. But Frank has since discovered that by slowing things down, or by using a conscious exit method such as Rope, he can project into the real-time zone. Frank has not said yet I don't think, whether he has been able to project further into the Astral from the real-time zone.
Frank also mentions the body "expansion". This, I believe, is due to the projection of the "energy body", and which also is comprised of etheric energy. This energy body, being denser than the Astra-Mental body, keeps the projector in the real-time zone, for such time as the etheric energy of the energy body exists. When the etheric energy expires, the resultant Astra-Mental body then fades into the Astral - that might only become apparent when the "Alice in Wonderland" effect starts to occur - i.e. reality fluctuations such as the sudden appearance of a Cheshire Cat, in what was a real-time environment - or at least a reflection of the real-time environment.
It is also apparent that from the real-time zone, you can project into the Astral using an appropriate technique such as aiming for a point on the horizon, and flying as fast as possible towards that point. The big question then is - where in the Astral do you arrive?
Frank: When you project into the Astral using your current method as described, what sort of entities do you encounter there? Do you encounter Astral wildlife of all types, entities of a wide range of apparent abilities, intelligence levels, and motives, or do you onoy encounter fellow human type entities engaged in various situations?
It seems to me that Franks method can be used to either project directly into the Astral, or into the real-time zone first. It is also apparent that the point of awareness shift to the Brow Chakra is extremely significant in this process.
4) We can also add another factor into the equation, based on another technique for Lucid Dreaming and Astral Projection. That technique involves setting an alarm clock to awake 6 hours after you go to sleep. You then get up for 1 hour, read a book on OBE's etc., go back to bed, and focus on your Brow Chakra until you fall asleep. Soon afterwards you should either enter a Lucid Dream, or awake with "waking paralysis" at which point you do an exit for OBE. It is also possible to get to the waking paralysis stage from a Lucid Dream, by willing yourself to do so.
The big questions arising from this hypothesis so far are:
A) Can Frank's method be used anytime, and not just after waking in the early hours of the morning?
B) What level of the Astral is reached using any of these methods, is it controllable, and is it possible to reach higher levels of the Astral. The associated question is: are these mthods achieving higher levels of projection than the Lucid Dream levels of the individual or collective human psyche?
So there is a brief summary for now of the main issues, perhaps we can use this as a basis to answer more questions, and refine these methods towards an extremely useful OBE tecnique.
With best regards,
Adrian.