I'm not looking to phase. I've never been able to interact with the imagery or imagine locations. I just can't stay lucid. I'm going for the obe/separation route.
My question is this: is the hypnogogic state something I need to ignore and/or not get sucked into? Does hypnogogia eventually fade if you can stay conscious long enough? And if it does fade, does that mean the vibrations or exit opportunity is just around the corner? I've jusy started practising holding my forearm up to extend the hypnogogic state, and this is helping immensely. I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to do or what comes next after I've been holding my arm up for a while?
Any reply will be much appreciated...
Quote from: seán7781 on May 15, 2014, 17:46:11
I'm not looking to phase. I've never been able to interact with the imagery or imagine locations. I just can't stay lucid. I'm going for the obe/separation route.
There's no difference beyond "sensations". None at all. You end up in the "same place".
OBE/Classic Separation there is that sense/feeling that you're moving "out of body".
Phasing there is no "moving" out of body... you're "here", then you feel a shift, and you find yourself "there".
QuoteMy question is this: is the hypnogogic state something I need to ignore and/or not get sucked into? Does hypnogogia eventually fade if you can stay conscious long enough? And if it does fade, does that mean the vibrations or exit opportunity is just around the corner? I've jusy started practising holding my forearm up to extend the hypnogogic state, and this is helping immensely. I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to do or what comes next after I've been holding my arm up for a while?
Any reply will be much appreciated...
Hypnogogic images are the beginning of phasing. It's like during the Noticing Exercise when you begin to "see" stuff moving within the blackness. That "stuff" can be anything, including hypnogogic images.
Passively observe. That's the name of the game. Keep deepening your awareness... further and further away from everything physical... passively observe everything...
This will, more often than not, provide you with the phasing sensations I mentioned above.
Ok, thank you, Xanth. I'm going to try and observe those images with my forearm in the air to stop me falling asleep, because every time I tried to do this in the past I just could not stay awake, not matter what time of the day it was. I would see a few images and just crash out.
Somehow I'm going to have to passively observe like you said, but without drifting off. I also might try continuously tapping my finger or something.
Quote from: seán7781 on May 15, 2014, 20:14:57
Ok, thank you, Xanth. I'm going to try and observe those images with my forearm in the air to stop me falling asleep, because every time I tried to do this in the past I just could not stay awake, not matter what time of the day it was. I would see a few images and just crash out.
Somehow I'm going to have to passively observe like you said, but without drifting off. I also might try continuously tapping my finger or something.
You're just "clicking out". The arm thing might help with that. Try to not balance it so well though that it stays up on its own. ;)
It's just a matter of keeping your mind a little bit more active.
Ok, thank you, Xanth. I'll make sure to hold my arm at a slight angle. It's just so hard to visualise anything when I'm in a deep trance like that. I get too drowsy.
I was reading Monroe's first book again and he said after you hallucinate mind images (or light patterns) you should be left with just blackness in front of your eyelids. That's the state I think I need to get to (condition B). if I can just get past and not surrender to the hypnogogia I might be able to finally succeed.
Quote from: seán7781 on May 16, 2014, 14:08:32
Ok, thank you, Xanth. I'll make sure to hold my arm at a slight angle. It's just so hard to visualise anything when I'm in a deep trance like that. I get too drowsy.
Well, that kind of sounds like your issue then. You need to figure out how to keep your mind active enough so that you don't become drowsy.
Perhaps lying down isn't an option for you. Try sitting up... or use a recliner. Your body seems to be programmed to "sleep" when you lie down... so be in a position that you don't associate with sleep.
QuoteI was reading Monroe's first book again and he said after you hallucinate mind images (or light patterns) you should be left with just blackness in front of your eyelids. That's the state I think I need to get to (condition B). if I can just get past and not surrender to the hypnogogia I might be able to finally succeed.
This is where most people get stuck...
They try to have someone else's experience.
You'll never do it "just like" Monroe. The problem is that you don't know what he meant by what he said... because it wasn't your experience. We can never really know what someone else has experienced.
Just stick with what you're doing... and try not to have any preconceived notions of what you're going to experience before you experience them. That, in itself, can derail your attempts. :)
Yes, I agree with you. Last year I did try sitting up, but then the problem was I couldn't get my body to relax enough or approach the sleeping state. But so far, the arm technique has helped tremendously. This is the first time I've actually had some control in the borderland state. I can stay in the hypnogogic state far longer now. I've already noticed how the hypnogogic images come far quicker than usual and are just way more vivid... otherwordly, even.
Good advice about not copying Monroe. I'll just keep practising what I'm doing. I've been having so many false awakenings lately, too, which is weird. I keep thinking that I'm awake in bed, but then I feel myself falling backwards with all these roaring sounds.