do these qualify as projections?

[__--nezabaleta--__]

Hmm... I think you was at that state that typically seems to "walk sleeping". You say "I would reach out and feel the cold metal and the knob at the top". Well, that's contradictory with astral sensorial properties. At astral plane, even the nearest to physical plane, one cannot sense aspects related to objets like its temperature or roughness. Typically at astral plane you moves through objects. Objects don`t interfere your movements, don`t are obstacles. Remember, you are a phantom... Anyway, a simple test for to calibrate your actual state is try to close your eyelids. At astral plane, you can't; furthermore, you have 360 degrees vision. Trying to close your eyelids is an unmistakable way to test your actual state. I hope this thinkings helps you.

[Patrik]

I just wanted to clarify that not everyone has 360 vision in the astral. There are basically three ways to see your surrounding, those who have 360 vision actually "sense" it, and is then interpreted into sight.

Just wanted to make that sure, so people don't "expect" 360 vision (it's actually more commong not to), thinking they do something wrong when they get normal sight.

[__--nezabaleta--__]

You're right...
But at astral there aren't such thing as eyelids. Only at a Lucid Dreaming state one has such ability of close eyelids.
NEZabaleta

[Amber]

Hmmm, so perhaps it was a dream, a lucid dream that I was reaching out to touch the gear shift?

I had my eyes closed, though, so then this was a lucid dream, but not in the dream pool, as I was still conscious of being in the car? It felt like I was laying in the car, the same way I fell asleep...same position, but I just couldn't move my body, only something that reached out from me, a hand, and grabbed the gear shift and found it smooth, the way it feels in real life, and the knob at top. I don't know if the damn thing was cold or not, I might have been taking writer's liberties there by saying it was cold...lol Maybe I really did reach out and touched it in my sleep?!
So, in astral, you can't close your eyes?
Amber

[Patrik]

Amber,

I remember waking up once very, very tired... And now I mean tired, like opening eyes but you are too tired to really comprehend being awake... So I looked at a clock that didn't exist. For like 5-10 mins I thought that the time I checked was real before I realized.

Anyhow to the point... When I was in this state I used my arms and "created" stuff, which I physically felt. I created a coin, played around with it etc feeling just as real as physical. After doing this a while I forced myself to open my eyes, still very tired to look at the hand and what I was holding... And there was no hand.

At this point I hadn't had a projection yet, so didn't put much attention to it. But when this happened I didn't feel the difference of that arm and the physical arm. Now when I project or partially project being stuck to a body-part I feel right away if I use my astral arm. It is strangely light, feels like air, but at the same time I can feel and touch objects without a problem.

I might just have forgotten, but I am pretty sure that was not how the arms in the above state felt, and I therefor do not consider them being astral arms. This might not be a full proof system, and perhaps it was the astral arms but being too tired to really notice how they felt. But until you've pushed yourself out of body enough to really know, this might give some lights on the subject.

[Amber]

Patik,
thank you for the help. yes, that is how it felt, like I was reaching out with my arm and playing with the gear shift, but when I opened my eyes, there was no arm, I was just laying there. So, I guess it was a phantom or hallucination in between sleep and awake.

That's pretty funny that you were looking at a clock that didn't exist...

Amber

[Risu no Kairu]

quote:Originally posted by __--nezabaleta--__

Hmm... I think you was at that state that typically seems to "walk sleeping". You say "I would reach out and feel the cold metal and the knob at the top". Well, that's contradictory with astral sensorial properties. At astral plane, even the nearest to physical plane, one cannot sense aspects related to objets like its temperature or roughness. Typically at astral plane you moves through objects. Objects don`t interfere your movements, don`t are obstacles. Remember, you are a phantom... Anyway, a simple test for to calibrate your actual state is try to close your eyelids. At astral plane, you can't; furthermore, you have 360 degrees vision. Trying to close your eyelids is an unmistakable way to test your actual state. I hope this thinkings helps you.

This isn't completely accurate. You can touch stuff while out of body. You can feel it's texture, temperature, and everything or more while out of your physical body.

Some things actually do seem to "trap" projectors, or interfere with their out of body moving.

Also, since the Astral is more and more subjective hte higher you move up in it, then if you think you have closable eyelids, guess what. You do.

I know you can touch objects. I've hit my head on a towel cabinet.

[Amber]

Kairu,
thanks for clarifying this,
ok. So, you can touch things then? Good, because I was really doubting the fact that I was sleep walking or hallucinating. It felt like the gear shift, period.

So, the question remains, do these little 'feeling around' moments, qualify as bonafide projections? Or are they just half way points or something? I am just getting them a lot and I'd like to know how to classify them, not that it is horribly important, I'm just curious.

thank you much,
Amber

[IronWire]

Is there any training that one can do to see 360' ?

[ralphm]

I would also have to say that sensations are a part of projecting- the feeling of going through objects, the feel of wind in your ears while flying-I can't say if these are only created by your subconcious but they do happen and I would be one to say that you should not doubt your own experience.
As for 360 vision, I recently realized that what is disorienting about obe's is the availability of 360 vision- not all at once but the ability  to jump from one place to another with no continuity between the two. Kind of makes it hard for the people that flit from view to view-or place to place.

[Amber]

yesterday, I was napping in the car, alone, while my friend was inside the bank. I had my head down on the armrest in the middle and I woke up a few times in that funny state where my body is asleep and won't move, but I'm awake. And I kept reaching out to grab the gear shift with my hand, not my physical hand, though. I would reach out and feel the cold metal and the knob at the top and then I would wake up and then slip back under to do it again. Finally I woke myself up trying to tell myself to open my eyes, I ended up opening my physical eyes.
There are never any vibrations. I am just reaching out my astral arm and hand... is this projection or just pre-projection? And I never  intentionally get this sort of thing, it seems to happen when I have been trying lately, but it isn't working and then I lay down for a nap one day and without all  the relaxation and trance crap...it just happens. I'm confused, because this is as far as I have gotten lately. No sight, just feeling around a little bit.
Amber