Don´t like the notion of Mind Split

[travelinbob]

Good for you!!! You are a true skeptic because you are willing to explore and do not have an agenda to disprove the phenomenon uber alles until you try the experience.

Regarding the mind split and RB's approach to AP, it appealed to me because it was NOT a Mystical approach but an almost mechanic one. To me the mystical approaches to all phenomena are ritualistic in nature. Ritual is an aid to concentrate your mental and spiritual energies. It is not right or wrong, so if you need it, use it. The universe is still a scientific one with rules and everything. Its just that the rules are a lot more complex than the dogmatic scientific method athiest cling to like a crucifix. (I know, I used to be an athiest too. Now I'm more of a panthiest.)

I have experienced the mind split, sort of. I remember a feeling of duality when I apparently had an OBE. I don't remember what happened when out, but I do remember a clear sense of duality.

Hope this helps.

[Frank]

What I would respectfully suggest is you work on the obe side of things before you start to make any kind of prognosis as to the likely effects of any one aspect of the process.

That way you will address the attendant problems-release-challenges for yourself; thus enable you to place your current dilemma into the correct perspective.

Yours,
Frank

[beav31is]

"I am a scientist though and an atheist with a great desire to believe in something more than what the eye meets."

I was an atheist scientist without that desire and I found that OBE is real. It is possible without faith.

"My true reason for wanting to OOB is to be able to distinguish it for myself from a lucid Dream. I believe in the powers of the mind and want to OOB for myself to see that it is not just in the mind but an actual leaving of the body."

You also leave your body during a lucid dream.

"The idea of the mind split though where a copy is made and one copy flies about seems too artificial to be remotely spiritual."

It doesnt have to copy itsself. The parts of the mind split are connected.

[npiv]

Beav31s, Im interested in the first argument you presented.

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I was an atheist scientist without that desire and I found that OBE is real. It is possible without faith.
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This diverts from the topic a little, but I have sometimes wondered if my skepticism is not holding me back. I can achieve WILD's, but sometimes when I try to OOB my muscles tense up and (my abs particularly) to raise my torso upwards. I wonder If My wanting to believe is causing me to emulate this raising effect and therefore bypassing the actual process. Any ideas on how to deprogram myself as it where, or perhaps add any tips of how you took the first leap of faith [:O]

npiv

[npiv]

Hope I don´t get flamed for this. I truly admire Robert Bruce in many ways but this theorie of his is one that rubs me wrong.

now first of all, I have never OOB´d and am still working hard with Robert´s help to get there one day.

I am a scientist though and an atheist with a great desire to believe in something more than what the eye meets. My true reason for wanting to OOB is to be able to distinguish it for myself from a lucid Dream. I believe in the powers of the mind and want to OOB for myself to see that it is not just in the mind but an actual leaving of the body. This would mean that a soul exists.

The idea of the mind split though where a copy is made and one copy flies about seems too artificial to be remotely spiritual. I can´t quite place what it is about the thought of the mind copying itself that I dont like but I suppose I link astral travel and the further dimesnsions to the 7 dimensions that Buddha mapped out.

Sorry if I couldnt make my point too clearly [] But are there others who feel more strongly toward the idea of an actual leaving of the body ?