Dream recording machine a possible reality!!!

[astral408]

http://www.geek.com/articles/gadgets/japanese-scientists-create-dream-recording-machine-2009046/

Imagine Youtube flooded with people's OOBE journeys. Or perhaps Robert Bruce could put out his OOBE's on bluray and DVD!

[dbmathis]

You are making a huge assumption here. We know through the collective objective observation of data that dreams are at least partially associated to the physical brain. However there is no real data to suggest that altered states of awareness (that indicate that a person is experiencing a remote event) is happening locally in the brain. We only have subjective and limited shared objective data describing the astral state.

This may eventually help to pin down the origin of events but it's likely not to invalidate the experience, because at the most fundamental level no human being understands physics or what holds the laws of physics in place. This includes the human brain and what makes it possible at the most basic level.

You don't have to go far to reach the conclusion that the beginning of everything we know of is rooted in mystical origins. For example the scientific cause and effect. Must everything have a cause? If "no" then one leaps immediately to invoking mystical beginnings. If "yes" then the beginning is a logical impossibility. If "yes" is a logical impossibility then the only logical possibility is a mystical beginning whether objective science likes or understands it or not. Do you see how logic is better than bad physical reality rooted science?

[astral408]

You have a great point. However, Robert Bruce has spoken of downloading through the cord (to retain the OOBE in memory). If that's done, the dream machine then picks it up, right?

[Xanth]

You are making a huge assumption here. We know through the collective objective observation of data that dreams are at least partially associated to the physical brain.

We do?

[dbmathis]

We know that through objective observation (MRI comparisons). This does not by any means equate to absolute truth. It's simply a shared observation. Please do not misinterpret my intent here which is to demonstrate that all we can do is observe and best describe what we are seeing from a limited perspective.

[dbmathis]

You have a great point. However, Robert Bruce has spoken of downloading through the cord (to retain the OOBE in memory). If that's done, the dream machine then picks it up, right?

Yeah, I read his book. I am not sure. Would the downloaded memory be considered a dream and do we have a way to prove what he is saying is true. There is no way of knowing whether the statistical correlation is of a "causal" relationship or of a "common cause" relationship. Just because he says the memory is downloading doesn't mean that's what's actually occurring. It's Robert's best attempt to describe an event that's very hard to describe.

[dbmathis]

Now, to be able to watch dreams would be cool all by itself.

[Fresco]

Machines that can record thoughts are not a matter of if, but when they come on the market

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/mar/06/medicalresearch

[personalreality]

Did anyone see that relatively recent episode of House where they use a device that shows people's thoughts?

Is it not possible that while the physical body sleep the brain does housecleaning?  That could light up an MRI, but doesn't mean that what is being seen is activity of a dream.  Perhaps that's indirect proof that dreaming is taking place at the same time as house cleaning, but there's nothing to say that dreams have any kind of physical basis other than a physical counterpart that takes place simultaneously.

[dbmathis]

but there's nothing to say that dreams have any kind of physical basis other than a physical counterpart that takes place simultaneously

Well I saw a real life documentary that does kind of suggest that dreams are linked directly to the brain. They had this person sit in a room and they drew draw coordinates of the waking man's brain using MRI and the brain lit up a certain way throughout the day. Then they took the same person during sleep and ran the same MRI tests and the same parts of the brain were lighting up at exactly the same as during the day during the same time periods. It was almost as if the brain was reliving the days events.

Although this doesn't prove anything about astral projection it does suggest that the brain plays a part in dreams.

[dbmathis]

Here's the thing. To shrug something off as just that stupid primate brain might not be so wise. As I stated above, nobody really understand anything at the most basic level. What exactly is the brain. Nobody knows. Limited Earth view perspectives is all we have.

[personalreality]

My point is that your reasoning goes both ways.  You're right, we don't know much about the brain.  

Lighting up in the same place only shows that the brain is doing some kind of work in those places.  Maybe our interpretation of that is wrong.  Maybe the brain is doing work on the neural connections in the places where it was active that day.

That doesn't necessarily imply that what is being recorded is dream activity.  I'm a psych student and have seen plenty of studies regarding dreams and their connection to the brain.  From my experiences in altered states and dream work, I'm just not convinced.  But I'm also a little anti-science so I am certainly biased.

[Fresco]

I've been having some really weird dreams lately, they dont make sense at all   

[dbmathis]

When I was still having visual migraines something interesting happened in a dream. During waking life if I had a migraine I would see a zigzag c shaped colorful pulsating object in my sight. It would start small and then grow and blind me for about 45 minutes. These visual migraines were caused by mercury poisoning in my brain. I finally removed the mercury source and detoxed and have sense stopped having the visual migraines.

When I was still poisoned I was dreaming one night and had a migraine in my sleep and saw the zigzag c shape that I see in waking life, in my dream. This suggested to me personally, that my dreams were physical brain phenomenons. Unless the brain is a catalyst for the nonphysical realities, which is a viable possibility, but it's still brain related.

Now you have two sets of data suggesting dreams are physical if you choose to consider it.

[personalreality]

How do you know you were having a migraine when you were sleeping?

[dbmathis]

Like I said, the visual aura. I saw it in my dream and then woke up and continued to see it in waking life. The migraine visual aura lasts for 45 minutes.

It's looks similar to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrrviW0Od-w&feature=related

and this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLJ00o-vmh0&feature=related

This phenomenon can be seen as an electrical depression in the physical brain on an MRI while it's in progress (this is extensively documented). Therefor I concluded that dreams were at least partially physical brain related or I would not have seen the visual aura.

Hope this helps.