Can't get through wall & unintentional RTZ x 2

[Andali27]

This has happened before on another occasion but in a different form, this is from last night.  Here goes.

I'm not really regretting what happened but am frustrated by the fact that it actually does happen without my consent.

I went through my usual AP/Focus states routine, only getting to a deep F10 and after that, as I usually do, got bored, got up for a few minuets, went back to bed then proceeded to try and go to sleep.

I knew I couldn't have been dreaming because I had barely been asleep for an hour.  I was probably bordering around the 'twilight zone' when I felt pre-exit symptoms.  I don't get anything like violent vibrations or things like that (only even did twice), simply a soft feeling over my body and a loose kind of feeling.  The next second, I was standing and making a B-line for my wall, which I intended to go through.  I figured it was belief systems still holding me back cause I hit the wall.  I tried again but to no avail, before I opened the door experimentally.  I figured I wasn't RTZ but somewhere else if I could interact with physical matter, or whatever it is.

Annoyed, I zapped back, thinking that I shouldn't do that again.

I was lying on my stomach when it happened and tried to alter my sleeping position so it wouldn't happen again.

Alas, it did, along with the pre exit symptoms.  I kind of 'floated out' top half first, half in half out hanging over my bed.  I waited and eventually my legs came free.  It kind of clicked that I was floating so I took advantage of that and pretty much went zooming around my room, watching it below as I did so.  I rose, dove, tried to get through a wall, it didn't work.  I turned and even felt my hair floating back against me as I stopped for a moment, it was down and wasn't when I went to sleep.  I kind of pushed off the wall then everything started to take on a lucid feel so I got out of it.

I was C1 again and was going to just turn over and sleep but figured it would probably happen again cause I could feel it coming.

I ended up getting up, recording the experience, then I stuffed around for about ten minuets before I went back to bed, endeavouring to make myself uncomfortable so it wouldn't happen again, it didn't.

It was a great experience mind you, the flying and all, but the problems I had was getting through the wall.  I figured since I could open the door, it wasn't RTZ, no biggie.  Then there is the fact that I was lying on my stomach both times it happened without me even wanting it to.  As much as I like the progress, it happening without my consent is kind of annoying, especially when have school in the morning.

Problem three, I think, Is it a problem that I don't have stronger pre-exit signs or was it because I was already half asleep, that I didn't notice anything besides the warm fuzzy feeling?

How can I go RTZ if it just happens when it wants to?  Also, no "clarity now" "fully clarity now" techniques seem to make my vision clearer.  I can see, that's enough, but the room was dark kind of, making me wonder if the RTZ version of my reality or whatever it's called, almost exactly mirrors the hours of the physical, give or take a few hours.  All this happened before midnight.

Also, at the moment, I can't seem to go beyond my room, though it's probably not a good idea as yet, as I still have some little mobility problems.

Sorry for the long post but can someone answer my questions?

Andali

[Andali27]

I know what RTZ is all about, I read the FAQ on it and ran it off in a hardcopy.

No problem with, flying, that was great, but my main concern is the projections occuring when I don't want them and when I had no intention to do them.  It was probably the focus states that opened the pathway so to speak, but I don't want to go floating off in class one day, or maybe I do, that would be new!

Andali

[upstream]

But for the God's sake Tom, this wasn't a real time zone projection. I couldn't agree anymore. Or is it just a problem of terminology? If this is so, then what we should call those experiences in which you have no body at all just drift on as a blob of awareness yet perceive the objective reality?

I've done many hundreds of conscious projection but only a couple of dozen were taken place in the Real Time Zone. It seems like the natural exit level has a tendency to shift further away from all those primer sensory experiences that we have through the sleeping body. This why the state of intense vibration would be gone by time. I haven't had spontaneous RTZ projections except my first two years.

Andali, if you want real RTZ adventures (which is highly advisable for substantiating valid astral explorations) I advice you to follow my guide I posted a while ago ("A Guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs") As you might see "LDs" stands for F22 experiences that are apparently similar to those you have had.

You're right about that doors couldn't be opened in the RTZ. Walls exerts only a temporal resistance before you able to pass through them. Leaving the RTZ is indeed like a continuum, but with close inspection you may be able to recognize some points where your perception has flicked somehow. For example you may found yourself in another place when you turn back or zoom on a distant building that's already far away from the RTZ.

Andali, your projection was a fairly typical OBE-like projection from its start to end. Floating out with the top half of the dream body at first is very typical for these projections as opposite to the leg first style of more heavy and blind projections. Yours has taken place just "above" the 3D void, somewhere around F22 where all objects are mental representations yet could be shared by other dreamers. It's a great place for practicing zooming and mutual dreaming!

[upstream]

Yoyo-yo. Hello Tom!

I don't care at this point anymore whether the sky is blue or green while OBE, and not caring seems to make an important difference.

Sure it does but would this "not caring" attitude serve us in every circumstances? If it doesn't matter what we perceive and we can't trust in our experiences, then what for this all projection stuff about? (I'm really curious about your opinion.)

Perhaps I'm more liberal in my definitions, since it doesn't matter much IMO.

I see your point but substituting known terms with more inaccurate might decapitate discussions before they start. I like exact definitions and when I start to get bored with them I prefer poetry.

My point is simple: it wouldn't seem to be a good idea to call these experiences as "Real Time Zone projections" since we have more exact terms like "F22 projections" (please disprove me for the fun of it) not to mention this hilarious but appropriate label, "Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming." They have simple descriptions that may prevent further confusion later on. Moreover, the fact that F22 experiences seem to happen not exactly in real time the label 'RTZ' is more than a misnomer here.

Beside this I agree with every single word you wrote in your last post. What I like more than stirring discussions by contradicting people is reaching consensus in peace. I may visit you soon and we'll check that new chair together.

[Centa Five]

Hello Andali,

I am a returning member who has not posted in a very long time, but I found your post to be interesting.  IMO your inability to pass through the wall can probably be attributed to a lack of conviction on your part that you could in fact pass through it.  This is based on the assumption that you were in the RTZ at the time.  I get the feeling that you were testing that wall and to me testing means that you are not sure that you can do it. I feel that passing through the wall will cease to be a problem the minute you stop doubting that you can.  I did a lot of testing during my early projections  One that comes to mind is when I tried to punch thru=ough a wall with my fist just to see if I could do it.  My fist went into the wall up to my wrist and then got stuck there.  For some reason I didn't panic, I just thought my fist back out of the wall and out it came.  My lack of conviction blocked the effort in that case but I was able to build on the experience and I dondd't question myself anymore in these matters.

IMO self-confidence, in a state where effect follows thought instantaneaously, is a very real asset.  Involuntary projections seem to come with the territory so to speak.  Robert Monroe wrote in his first book something to the effect that once you open the door to the vibrations and projections that you will not be able to close it.  I don't totally agree with that concept.  I feel that if one gives up trying to project and stops all interest in it that eventually the conditioning will ebb and the pattern will fade.  Just my opinion.

I think that you can safely rule out projecting in the classroom involuntarily.  I can't believe that anyone could possibly become so relaxed to the point of physical paralysis in that environment.

You do have some control over these involuntary projections in that you can abort the vibrations by physical movement and if you have already projected you can use your "return" thought to end it.  I believe that Robert Monroe also said something in his book to the effect that this ability to project can be both a blessing and a curse.  You seem to possess the ability to project quite easily and for that I envy you as I have always had to work very hard to achieve the results that you can take for granted.  If I were in your shoes I would welcome your wonderful opportunity to explore other dimensions on a regular basis.  It's very frustrating to visit a certain area and want to return there but not be able to project when you want to and if you do, you find yourself in another place!!  In your place I would happily accept any of the perceived drawbacks to projecting spontaneously and I would never choose to view this ability as a big inconvenience.  Just my thoughts.   Centa Five

[Andali27]

Quick question, slightly off topic.  I've been wondering for a hell of a long time now, what does IMO stand for?

Thanks!

[Andali27]

thanks muchly!

[upstream]

Thanks for your feedback.

Well, the not caring attitude leads to the development of other inner senses rather than the objectified version of the astral/physical-like senses.

I think the crucial point to get that fluidity in perception is to get rid of the human interpretatory system. It should be a distinct shift in awareness not a dreamy wandering. The trick could be simply to loose the human shaped second body and the rest will follow. The ability to reach those higher, more abstract regions of the consciousness as well as opening up our inner senses might depend solely on this maneuver. But more experimentation needed. However, I'm quite sure that non-ordinary astral experiences are simply uninterpreted forms of the conventional "astral dreams."

Tom, I've read the handshake post you pointed out. I quite like it but...you know, since my funny initial experiments have been done here, I prefer to remain quiet when I couldn't be constructive. But you certainly deserve to be honest with. Well, without Frank post your adventure was lovely but after he made that tricky reply lol it became more like a smooth playing of two lovely swindler, if you know what I mean. Innocent self-deception, like number magic.

It would be a pleasure to be wrong with this but I admit I'm too critical. I'm sure my attitude could hindrance my progress but I've chosen this way of doing things. All I know I know for sure: mutual dreaming is possible. Ok, I have many experiences with weird things that for others may have been taken as evidence for something, but I'm from those people who have never enough. All I have at this moment is some faint memories about something big and bright and an indestructible faith in future.

a couple of weeks I ago you posed for me like in a rotating otherwise picture-still image Are you really blond, so handsome and in your twenties? You always struck me as older so in this case it's probably a miss in objectified terms

Well, I'm indeed a very handsome guy, shouldn't have been that difficult to figure out. But I have brown hair. I was blond before my puberty but now close to 28 time seems go faster and my hair turned brown. Though I still look younger my age deep inside I remain an old man who prefer to enjoy the freedom of a pensioners' life.

I realize some have described F22 as the "place" where people dream. But dreaming can follow so seamlessly from an valid OBE that I personally really have difficulty according it a different number as if it is about dichotomous states. Let's say I'm in an RTZ projection, walk out the house, everything fits perfectly. Then I turn the corner on the street, and suddenly I see a different landscape than there is in reality. I. My awareness is as lucid as it was before. Did my brain waves really change? Did I really enter a different state?

I think you indeed did enter a different state but remained in the same focus. F22 is infinite since there are infinite dreams to be dreamed. If it would be possible, it should be "more infinite" than the physical lol. I think that each and every particular brain state is a superposition of every possible "inner state" that exist inside the continuum of consciousness. It's quite obvious if you think about it. We are tips of an ice berg from both direction (you know, cones), living, personified symbols of some self-realizing world process. Of course, infinite inner states couldn't correspond with infinite EEG-spectras since this technology has a very poor resolution. Just think about the focus tapes as an example of something even worse in accuracy. TMI made them by reverse engineering of talented subjects' EEG spectras. They even use the same audio pattern for F26 & F27 and for F21 & F22. But regarding just F23 for example, how many people could you meet there? And how many places?

A couple of times I've catched the mechanism how dream bubbles fuse. Radical change in the environment means that you reached a border of a dream pool that exists by someone or a group's intent. For example, in on of my early projection as I've been flying around in a quite stable nightly environment I picked up a bright window. I overshot it but hooked my limb into a salient on the roof. My limb stretched comically but has done its job and pulled back myself. I was about to climb through the window when I saw a man rapidly approaching it from inside. He had a gun and he seemed angry. I got afraid since getting a couple of bullets haven't seemed a good idea in that highly lucid state. I tried to become invisible by a trick worked before. It's like frozening, stopping my inner movements, thoughts, etc. He stepped through the window without any sign of noticing me. As I followed him with my eyes I found that I'm not anymore on the roof of that 2 store house where I landed but am standing in a dingy garden just before a wooden door of some garden house. Obviously the door was in the place of the window. I saw the man putting his gun into a little box on the wall then walking away. So I went to the box opened it and take out the gun. It was made of garbage like wires and wood sticks, seemed like a toy. I heard the narrator voice replying my question in my head confirming, it's totally harmless. The voice was right as always, but at this time it/he/she found out a great way for teaching! Well, to keep myself on the safe side I decided to put the gun in my pocket to prevent violent friend for further cool actions. I went inside the house to explore. I saw animals in hutches along the brief corridor. I was half way down when the door has swung open behind me. I spun back in terror only to see this warped guy broke in holding the same gun in his hand lol. He didn't leave any chance for me to escape than spinning back into my body. It took a couple minutes to figuring out what happened and where I made my mistake.

Feel free to visit and shout on the street for my attention, but be careful with entering the house, since my dogs are truly vicious.

Thanks for the warm invitation. I might throw some pebbles at your windows upstairs to not wake up your wife. Otherwise please lock up the dog when I ring the door. Animals adore me but safety first. You'll see I'm a nice person but be prepared I have quite a sweet tooth.

[collins827]

This is a little off topic, but those dogs are cute MajorTom   lol.

[upstream]

Maybe light golden reddish brown?

Would you consider minor reality fluctuations (but overall the experience corresponding to physical) as being in F22 rather than RTZ? Or would you consider it RTZ with temporary lapses into F22 as peer falling into a dream bubble (lucid or non-lucid)?

In my view, F22 is the base level of lucid dreaming as well as of mutual dreaming as long as level of awareness is sufficient. It certainly overlaps with the real (F12) RTZ and the territories where people live without physical organism. Ordinary flying dreams marked by elevated yet not lucid level of awareness, seemingly as a result of the act of flying. Usually these dreams are bright and stable and apparently situated between the "real" RTZ and F22.

"Below" this level (I'm not sure though) flying become a mess. The landscape is chaotic threatening the stability of my projection with instant awakening. Could be a mixture of different peoples' different dreams superimposing onto each other. This is where mutual dreaming occurs and high tension power lines tend to come into view to grab the flyer's back to RTZ.

Power lines are markers along the way that leads from F22 to RTZ and back (see my RTZ guide for details). In this state the energy body is slightly decondensed into room sized volumes and flying is like being a wind current: it's hard to change my momentum but I have no difficulties controlling the direction. Like riding a vector or something.

When I fly into a house through a window with great speed (besides the heightened possibility for realizing that I have a hitchhiker attached on my dream body) I often feel myself zap back to human shape and get a more accurate form perception. The perception could be either F12 or F22 RTZ at this point. This is where the two focus level overlap via reality fluctuations. They are, according to my model, lapses in perception caused by fluctuations of the energy body (hence the name 'fluctocondensation'). From the point of a waking observer it should be a brief expansion of the energy field that quicky followed by its retraction again provided that the "objective" perception has been successfully restored thereafter.

It's interesting to note that TMI F22 had exactly the same pattern as F21, so there should be no big difference between F21 and F22 in terms of consciousness. The difference in the focus and interpretation of the experiences. A couple of days ago when I tried to remember some of my visions about the topology of the emanation cone, labeling its connections with the traditional focus codes and mapping its relations to various brain states, chakras and other upstream like activities in the hope I could explain myself better I realized that I have a little mess in my head... Well I cached myself "writing" "F21" at two places: on the thalamocortical network (crown chakra) and the expanse of the emanation cone (Earth's magnetosphere = periphery of human aura). Although I'm not sure, it's quite possible that in some of my posts I made the very same mistake, reversing F21 with F27. Not to mention the fact that the shape of number 7 is like the shape of 1, could be an explanation that I rather think in abstract pictures than focus numbers. I have to check out my posts though, something I certainly won't do because I don't understand my English.

To answer your questions, it seems to me, as walking keeps you in F22, flying detach you from it and take you to the middle of the RTZ continuum, the fluid landscape then the power-line zone. This is where F22 and real RTZ smoothly blink into each other. If you get inside a building you likely get back to F22, that is, back inside a dream bubble or mental representation of the building as it exist in the mind, either personally or mutually of people who live there. You may say this is RTZ and I have to agree. It's really an inter-subjective state. But I don't think that hard core objective perception wouldn't be possible. For that you need bioplasm to anchor the condensatum. I think it's quite possible to stole some from people especially when they sleep or they muscles are relaxed. Indoor plants and specially designed EM fields could help too.

A great way to test our focus level is trying to get inside a wall. Walls are permeable in RTZ, act like honey in the intermediate states and work like gateways into the 3D darkness in F21/F22.

Tom, do you remember my opinion that we are (as individual beings or aspects of our Higher Selves) actually in F22 even right now in this holy moment? I think we are already dead, imprisoned into the lowest known part of the human belief territory system, Focus Level 22. Fully understanding this fact is so important for the practice of what some members would call here as phasing into (F22) RTZ since this process is rather a change in our focus than going out.

In my opinion, our brains are aspects of our F22 mind, thus, saying we are inside our brains is not such a distorted view. Yet not as pertinent as saying that our physical life is only dreamed by our astral body and our brain is nothing more than our F22 mind sensed through our physical organs. So, to summarize the above, in my opinion we are in the "lower astral" right now but our similarly designed physical senses (operating around the level of F12) set up some coherency and synchronize our (quasi) individual dream bubbles into a shared experience we call waking life. Does it make sense for you?

[upstream]

Thanks Tom, I plan to stay for a while.

As for the power lines I was quite obsessed with them in my early years of projection. Eventually I've found a rational explanation. But first, the phenomenology if you don't mind.

When the lines appear they always rule the sky. In the very first stage they are usually unrecognizable as power lines but nevertheless play a central role in the dreamscape. Have been reading other people experiences on the Net, it seems that usually the lines appear at first when the dreamer try to fly upwards. The lines could have many appearances, from parallel shining lines against the background of the the sky to more concrete forms of various kind of electrical wires. They are not necessary power lines but somehow always stand in the path of the dreamer's flying path.

Although have been felt quite powerful from the very beginning, they tend to gain shape only in the further stages. This goes hand in hand with the process in which the dream body loses all the funny gadgets that has been used previously to make flying more believable at the levels of lower lucidity. Wings, flying carpets, armchairs, bicycles and other funny devices start to disappear, only the dream body remains. In the latter stage it disappears too, only the lines remain as unavoidable obstacles on the flying path.

I have had some important observations regarding my movement around the lines. I have to say, all these observations have been made before I start to think on the power lines as possible intrusion of real objects. So, the observations or rules are:

1. No matter how roughly the direction I fly on points toward the lines I will pass them right through.

2. If I come on a path that parallel to the lines with great speed I would zoom along the lines like a wind current, taking great distances without getting off or loosing RTZ sight - could be a possible method for longer travels in the RTZ. In one cases I even slitted into two current at a junction of the lines and traveled in two direction at the same time.

3. In my most impactful experience, I observed the two above rule and a third one as a result of my efforts to escape. I dropped from the sky on a hyperbolic orbitgot into a little unknown village, tried to avoid but passed through some lines ahead (first rule) and landed on the mossed roof of a little church to rest and re-orientate myself. I closely focused on the moss to sharp my perception, and flew down the main road only to realize I trapped along by the lines again (rule #2). I tried to escape flying upwards. First it seemed to work but after one or two second I saw other wires, now, above me. I did this a couple of times with the same result: when I tried to diverge I got only new wires and found myself exactly where I come from; my distance from the ground remained the same.

After awakening I've searched my dream diary, found similar accounts and realized the above rules. I hypothesized not only the electromagnetic interaction but the "visual interpreter" you saw in action at the end of my village experience. Now I think that the improper appearence of lines in the first stages correspond with more deloclised (decondensated) states of the sensory field (energy body). The more decondensed the energy body from the viewpont of a hypothetical waking observer the more dream like the experience is. But before 2000 I couldn't explain why have power lines a condensating effect on the energy body.

But thanks for Tom Bearden now I know the explanation. According to Bearden physic text books have failed to tell us about that only less than 1% of the energy travel inside the wires, the bulk (called the Heaviside component) remains outside of the conductors. Thus, there is an enormous amount of energy seemingly having collected from the entire vacuum through space curvatures. They make space literally "inclined" toward the wires which explain the first two rule and the tendency of condensation toward the lines.

It's interesting to note that many UFO and light ball sightings have been reported in the closure of high tension power lines. I have even read an account about a diffuse light cloud that has been seen condensating around the lines and getting the classical disk shape before it dematerialized again. Perhaps some light balls are really just a group of interdimensional traveller we inclined to interpret as UFOs.