having difficulty. any suggestions?

[Tom]

Robert Bruce describes what he calls the mind split. It is in his book Astral Dynamics and there is some information on it in the main web site apart from the forums. Basically you have one main copy of your mind and when you dream or project it is another copy of the mind which is sent out. This then returns and two or more streams of memory exist for the same interval of time. The physical brain prefers to record only one set of memories for a given interval. The physical body's memories take priority, and the dream body has next chance. Then the astral body gets a chance to record its memories. If they get partiaaly recorded you get an experience after the fact which seems to begin in the middle. There are many other possibilities. It is most common to lose the OBE memories entirely. Learning more about how the mind split effect works can help you to continue with your projections.

[Ash]

hi tom,
thanks for the reply.
so are you saying that in all likelyhood i am actually successful in projecting but that my conscious memory is only of the activities of my physical body during that time? ie. i remember my body lying there doing nothing but i don't remember my astral body projecting?

[rodentmouse]

hello ASH

have  you read Astral  Dynamics ?   if  not  do  so  asap.

ive realised  that  what  has  inhibited  me  projecting  is  my  failure  to master  the  core  skills that Robert  describes  in  AD

they are...


1)  deep  physical  relxation
2)   taming the mind
3)   the trance state

ive  noticed a definate improvement  in  my  own  ability  to  induce  altered states  of consiousness  by  practising  these  skills.

this is  in  my case anyway,  perhaps  you are  already  farmiliar  with these,  if  so,  then i wouldnt  know sorry.

[Amber]

I have had a similar experience, for about 10 years or so, I have had lucid dreams and oobe's regularly, without trying. When I conciously try to do oobe's, I will end up falling asleep and then snap back awake in the middle of the experience. Then in the morning, I have to search for those memories of the experience. The clearer experiences were during the daytime napping and the fuzzy, less memorable ones at night before sleep.
Is it possible that we are concious of these experiences all the time, but we just forget about them, or choose not to be aware of them?
Amber

[goldenroses]

Hello all, I'm new to this site, but not new to "projection", and have been meditating for 27years and have had a few experiences.You have to learn how to lose awareness of your body without losing consciousness.You move awareness away from your body to your mind, where consciousness ultimately exists.It sounds like you get bored, expecting something to happen and when it doesn't you lose interest and go to sleep.When your mind has nothing to focus on, you drift off.

[micron]

Ash,

I feel ya because im in the same situation; however, yesterday i got really fed up and decided to really analyze my possible downfalls. So i'll just share it with you and maybe something will make sense? The first thing i decided on was that i was trying too hard, and i was being too 'active' in the process. Next i tried to find any connections bewteen my whopping 2 obes and my tons of LD's and i noticed that in all cases i actually did fall asleep, but always on my back; therefore a very light sleep. Its very hard for me to fall asleep on my back and its also the position i practice projecting from. So i think my body is starting to become programmed to either LD or OBE if i do actually goto sleep. (something you can then further work with) If you've read any of Buhlman this is his technique. To force sleep and wake up with vibrations. I think for us who are having a difficult time projecting from the waking state, this is the best method. The momentary loss in consciousness when you make the transition to sleep, causes the body to naturally start the projection process = vibrations. Hopefully you will be in a light enough sleep to become awakened by the vibrations and then have a consciouss exit. Perhaps an affirmation like "i will awake when i feel the vibrations" might help? Again this is all speculation, im by no means an expert and have yet to test this more. But it seems the most natural way for me. If i eventually have any success ill definately share the experience. hope this helped if only to make you think a little |)

[fredhedd]

ash, maybe there is a chance that you aren't fully relaxed. you may be pretty familar w/ the trance states, but how deep into trance can you get?  i had some problems that i couldn't figure out for a long time that were similar.  i was so slightly tensed up that it was making projection impossible.  have you tried listening to music while attempting the projection?  something soothing like a rain tape or something that wouldnt' cause memories to flood in and make it easier to lose consciousness may help.

when you say all of a sudden you will regain consciousness and the experience will end, do you mean projections as well?  

when you have projected how did it happen?

give me some more details about your situation and i may be able to suggest some more appropriate suggestions.

micron, that tek you describe was in  a  post a while back.   i don't remember the name right now but there are a lot of people here that use that same tek.  the only problem is it's not as consistent or reliable as would be becoming proficient at the conscious exit projection.  ad is geared towards the conscious exit.  it's a good tek though and i have used it myself.  a positive result is that the more you do accomplish oobe, in any fashion, the easier it should become to consciously project.  

being 'too active' in the process makes me think that you arne't in deep enough trance.  when you are in an almost to light trance state it's easy to try and help w/ the projection in ways you shouldn't be.  when you hit a good trance state it will actually start to feel uncomfortable if you try and physically move to help or do something else that would hinder the projection.

if you can get out, keep doing it.  if you have any more problems  just post em.

[Ash]

hi fred,

i think you're right. I don't feel like i'm fully as relaxed as i could be. to give you some idea, my body feels fairly heavy and i feel like i could easily move an arm or leg but i don't really want to. i haven't tried listening to music but i've been using the monroe tapes for quite a while.

whenever i have succeeded at projecting it was always unplanned. it would be just waking up from a nap or once in a while from a lucid dream.

yes when i start to drift out of consciousness i lose bodily awareness and maybe a bit of vibrations but as soon as i snap back to awareness it all stops. The only way I can seem to do it is if I wake up in the middle of it, with the vibrations already going very strong and then I can get swept away by it.

So yes, I think probably I'm not relaxed enough, either mentally or physically. the problem is I can't figure out how to relax any more without losing consciousness or falling asleep. If I try to focus too much I just stay awake and only get into a light trance.

[Ash]

hello all,

i think i'm in a bit of a different category than most of the people posting on here, and so i'm looking for advice. I'm not exactly a beginner, but I'm definitely not an expert. Here's my situation:

I've been having spontaneous oobe's and lucid dreams for about 13 years now, i'd say about one a month. so i'm pretty familiar with the vibration state and the process of projection. i don't think there's any fear involved. the problem is that i've never once been able to project when I was trying. It always happens only when i'm not thinking about it. i believe i've become fairly proficient at the main requirements. i'm not afraid, and i can get into what i think is a trance for long periods. my concentration is excellent. but it never seems to work. typically, i can't induce any vibrations or floating sensations unless my mind drifts off. For instance, i'll be doing an exercise like energy raising for 20 minutes and nothing will happen. Then i'll get tired and drift into a dream and lose consciousness. Then all the sudden i'll become conscious again and the experience immediately ends. It's like I can't start to project without losing awareness of my body, and I can't lose awareness of my body without losing consciousness. Does this sound familiar to anybody?

your comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.
thanks,

Ash