Try reading Jed McKenna's book.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0971435235/qid=1052091122/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-6697625-4208039?v=glance&s=books
fate....
have you read "the power of now"??? by Eckhart Tolle?
well i think its come closer to describing enlightenment than any of the ancient eastern texts... its more "up to date"
anyway, one of the steps to become enlightened he says is to forgive any bad situations, as anger is counter productive. Try to rise above your emotional reactions and watch them with a sense of detatchment, as if you are observing yourself without letting them dominate your actions at the time.
anyway, i tried "forgiving the situation" a few nights ago because i was in a group where i felt extremely paranoid and wanted to go asap.... but then i let the situation BE, i accepted and embraced the situation as being an experience.
I felt a profound state of acceptance, and my paranoia just dissolved, i think that was the "highest" state of mind ive ever been in...
coincidentally the blockage ive always seemed to have in my solar plexus and navel area is being unblocked.... im sure one of these chakras (solar i think) is down to self esteem and personnel power.
ever since i forgave the situation and fought my paranoia, i feel a lot stronger inside.
quote:
Originally posted by fatesdrifter
Hello everyone. I'm looking for information and thoughts on enlightenment. I'm talking about the kind of enlightenment where you become enlightened in an instant.
This kind of talk sounds like the kind promised by the drugs boys.
Yours,
Frank
Enlightenment is always in an instant, but that ignores the years of effort preceding it. It also ignores the fact that enlightenment is the beginning of the path, not its end.
>>Has anyone had such an experience and want to talk about it?
Those who have such experiences usually don't talk much about them, David. "Ineffable" is the word that comes to mind . . . the difference between "to be" and "being," imo. We can write/speak a million words defining what it means "to be"--and many who have been gifted with the experience do spend lots of time talking about all the associated aspects of it.
Yet "being" is an experience, one that doesn't lend itself to words and trying to describe such a personal experience ends up being an exercise in frustration.
It's the difference between knowing, understanding, and discussing ontological truths like love/freedom/beauty/onesness--and being Love/Freedom/Beauty/One.
>>Does anyone have any thoughts on what such an experience would ultimately mean to the experiencer?
Whatever it is that God wishes to communicate through the experience, I'd suppose.
For me, it was a certain knowledge that "God is me, but I am not God." While twenty years later I'm still exploring the depth of meaning in that one small statement, I came away from the experience with a clear, soul-deep understanding that I am a created being, not a god-in-the-making, that to be one with God is not the same as becoming God. A humbling experience I am very grateful for.
For others, it might be different. I can't say.
The reason I started this topic was because I have had such an experience. It happened a little over six years ago. I was a normal teenager and had never done anything to bring it about. In retrospect I can see how my life was led toward the experience but at the time, to put it lightly, I had no clue what had happened to me (and no I was not on drugs). It was by far the biggest thing that has ever happened to me, but I didn't discuss it for the first four years. I had no words. Ineffable, indeed.
A little over a year ago I met a professor of philosophy that had some knowledge of this sort of thing and I have become more aware of others that have had similar experiences. Reading about their experiences has given me a vocabulary for the subject.
I'm not saying I know anything special and as the good wisdom on the other page says, I am just trying to 'be' (theoretically a more difficult task than it would seem).[:)]
I'm interested in what everyone thinks the relation to any sort of astral experience is to the context of the conversation? I liked R. Bruce's thoughts on the 'Source', has what he said jived with your experiences?
Ack! Wrote a long answer and it didn't post. If I have time later, David, I'll reconstruct my reply.
Basically, I said that astral projection may be one path, but we can easily get side-tracked by all the delightful experiences if we're not clear about our goals and allow the means to become that goal . . .
It is not just astral projection. Patanjali warns against all "supernatural" powers even after describing them and how to get them. They are part of the dream that enlightenment involves waking up from. Like in lucid dreaming, when the dream can be controlled in ways that had been "supernatural" before the dream state was understood.
Perhaps not all enlightening experiences are happy or pleasant experiences. I had one such experience, an astral projection actually, which I posted to the Welcome to OBE Experiences forum. It was titled "Out of Body Experience" and was posted in mid or late March.
From the book I just suggested, the commercialized version of enlightenment is "enlitenment". It does not require giving up anything or suffering anything. It is packaged brightly in bliss and guaranteed to satisfy. It certainly does not require feeling pain. But then, the real thing can feel like dying.
Hi, Greytraveller. I was referring to the ego when I used the adjective "delightful." Yes, some spiritual experiences can be frightening, but I meant that ALL such experiences appeal to our egos and in that way delight us. We feel we have "achieved" something, no matter how terrifying the experience.
Hi, David, will try to answer again.
The reason I started this topic was because I have had such an experience.
Then you probably came away from it realizing who you are in some way. The rest of your life may be spent trying to figure out what that means in everyday terms. While the experience shares certain similarities, it is different in terms of message and meaning for each person, imo.
I was a normal teenager and had never done anything to bring it about.
I come at it from a christian contemplative perspective, which is the lense through which I interpret the event. I would agree with you, enlightenment isn't an achievement, something we earn after doing some step-by-step spiritual process. It is a gift; we can particpate, but we do not initiate.
In retrospect I can see how my life was led toward the experience
For me, I believe this is true. The spiritual exercises can place us in a position to recieve the gift and prepare us to understand it better.
but at the time, to put it lightly, I had no clue what had happened to me (and no I was not on drugs).
LOL! I believe you. I'm not sure any drug can yeild ultimate enlightenment. Drugs can access parts of the brain we're not accustomed to, make us believe we've learned something unique, but they bring about "effects," not enlightenment itself, imo.
The fact that you had no clue as to what happened to you makes me wonder if we're talking about the same core experience. There are a wide variety of spiritual experiences, most of them pretty "impressive" to say the least. Yet, I believe the very nature of such "enlightenment" experiences is one of certainty about what happened.
As a teen I had an experience that totally rocked my spiritual world. About 6-7 years later Moody came out with his first book on NDEs and I realized my experience perfectly matched an NDE, except that it was self-induced. What others might now call astral projection or OBE.
What I also know is that it was a completely different experience than the one I had 15 years later, the one to which the term "enlightenment" might apply. As impressive as that first (and several later) experiences was, it paled in comparison. Apples and oranges.
A little over a year ago I met a professor of philosophy that had some knowledge of this sort of thing and I have become more aware of others that have had similar experiences. Reading about their experiences has given me a vocabulary for the subject.
Interesting, because I believe there are lots of filters through which we can explore the meaning of the experience--different religious practices, science and medicine, philosophy and metaphysics--and whichever we prefer usually becomes the language of choice for talking about it. I myself prefer a mixture of contemplative and medical/scientific jargon.
I'm not saying I know anything special and as the good wisdom on the other page says, I am just trying to 'be' (theoretically a more difficult task than it would seem).
Imo, the experience doesn't make us wiser, better, more loving, more anything . . . however, I do believe it's the impetus to become those things.
For me, the experience came and went over a weekend period. At one point I said "Please, no more. I can't handle this. I'm burning out." It stopped and has never returned. Nor have I sought the experience willfully again. I don't need to. I know now the Kingdom of God is within me, others and the world itself. I don't need to separate mind, body and soul to "discover" it, or go to some other plane of existence to find God. S/He is constantly with me and available--in myself, others and all of creation.
Among other things, I also learned that this is a gift, not something we can "achieve" or take credit for. Though it is our heritage, our right, who we are meant to be--fully alive, conscious, aware-- it is still a gift, a grace. We cannot create it and, while our potential is tremendous, our actual ability to hold and maintain such overpowering freedom, love and truth is actually quite limited. I believe we're here to activate that potential to the best of our ability and our will before the next phase of our lives.
I'm interested in what everyone thinks the relation to any sort of astral experience is to the context of the conversation? I liked R. Bruce's thoughts on the 'Source', has what he said jived with your experiences?
The language may be different, but there are similarities. I believe that astral experiences are what traditional mystics and contemplatives would call visions and locutions--happenings beyond the "norm." Chrsitian contemplatives are taught to ignore such things because they can easily stall your spiritual progress by appealing to the ego and creating a false sense of self. They make us think we've "achieved" something ourselves, made progress, become "holy"--when all we are experiencing is a spiritual pride.
Because they are so appealing and gratifying, we may get stuck at that "level" in the spiritual journey and forget the true goal, which for contemplatives at least, is the spiritual union with God.
On the medical/scientific side of the concept I've done a lot of reading on the brain and "reality breaks" that occur in religious experiences. Any spiritual truth must also work within the framework of human knowledge and truth, imo. I find the the relationship beween schizotypy and religious experience quite remarkable. I believe anyone interested in "other realities" should be aware of the dangers that may be present.
So, I have mixed feelings about Mr. Bruce and his work. In some ways it's good that he is appealing to people to explore their spiritual identities. Like all religions and religious teachers, there's some truth to what he teaches.
Yet, again as with all religions, blindly following someone else's "truth" can be extremely dangerous. His methods, like all religious practices, appeals mainly to those of us born with schizotypical tendencies. To continually seek to break with sensory reality, rather than to integrate the experience with physical reality, is a dangerous thing that plays with people's mental well-being, imo.
I had a short moment of enlightenment about 5 years ago, although it felt like eternity. I don't recommend it - - it was NOT blissful, it was terrifying. Enormous and endless, too many choices, and No End. People, forever lasts too long when you don't know what you want.
Good heavens, why do we think finding ourselves face-to-face with the Ultimate will be enjoyable, peaceful, or fun? I came out of the experience bloody and battled (my fingernails), but amazed and oddly peaceful. I finally Got It. It changed my life.
As for today, I've blocked out the fear of that fateful night, but remembered the most important part of the Lesson. But to go There again? ACK! NOT! I'd rather not walk that razor's edge between Enlightened and Schizophrenic.
So Folks, don't worry about reaching enlightenment, you literally have an Eternity to get there. It's how you spend Eternity that matters (and that, my loves, is the Lesson).
Here's a mind wrenching analogue for you.
Imagine that enlightenment is a golf club and you are the ball.
The ball gets enlightened when the club smacks it into flight which in this case is the perspective of the ultimate goal which is represented by the hole.
Now, if the ball is far away from the hole, ie. the person has ways to go before actually eyeballiing the goal, the smack will be delivered with a driver. A huge mother (or father) of a bang. Not fun, not blissfull, quite the contrary.
But if the person is close to the goal perhaps even on the green where to goal can be seen and felt the smack will be a gentle nudge with a putter and in the hole goes the person. Just a little inconvenience.
So where you are when E hits you determines how it will feel and affect you.
2cents & L&L
jouni
I'm really happy to see everyone seems to be on the same page. If you've been following the posts you read that my experience happened when I was young and not very knowledgable about the world. Whatever "it" is, "it" searched me out and has stayed with me for every moment since. Like many of you have said it is a hard experience and that has been my life for the last six years. Things are a lot better now that I have some knowledge about what happened to me, but I still feel like the infinite's playtoy.
I'm on the verge of graduating with a B.A. in philosophy and I'm currently writing my final paper on my experience. I find it really hard to write about this using few words, but I'll give it a try.
If there is anything I notice different between my experience and some of the others that people have shared it is that for all its good and bad it stayed with me. I can't begin to share how this has impacted my life. In fact, I'm of the mind that I exist in large part so 'it' can exist within me. From the moment it happened there was little doubt in my mind of the magnitude of it. In that moment and from then on...everything just made sense. That is to say everything made sense in infinite ways. I hate to say this, but I must: I belive in everything, I believe in nothing, and I believe in everything in-between, exclusively, or not. I don't know how I could say something true, but I also don't know how I could say something that isn't true. It's a strange world.[;)]
Hello everyone. I'm looking for information and thoughts on enlightenment. I'm talking about the kind of enlightenment where you become enlightened in an instant. The real 'sage' stuff. Limitless grasp of reality. The ultimate achievement of spiritual growth. Becoming your 'higher-self'.
Has anyone had such an experience and want to talk about it? Does anyone have any thoughts on what such an experience would ultimately mean to the experiencer?
David