Enochian, Kabalah, High Magick

[Leyla]

Okay, so when I first started having OBE's and AP's (about 11 years ago) somebody insisted I needed to read all this material. After much study, and years of progress, I must say I still find it quite uselsess.  

Seems full of complex symbols, names, talismans, tablets, and hard to pronounce names all of which are designed give the impression of being of great importance somehow. :evileye:  

I have certainly never used any of these things to achieve an OBE or AP, despite the fact that is what they are supposedly designed to do for you.

It promises that if you become a "true magickal dragon" you can "roam freely through all parts of the universe both visible and invisible."

It's got this whole list of things you must first complete before becoming an "Enochian Dragon." (oooooh.)

- Has had the conversation with his/her guardian angel.
(Did this before I bought the silly book.)

- Safely passed through spiritual realms beyond and returned with full memory of the experiences.
(Who here hasn't. )

- Has encountered both angels and demons.
(Whatever you want to call them.)

- Has wandered the invisible pathyways of the watchtowers and aethyrs
(You mean had an AP? )  

- Has had at least five major ordeals.
(Traffic this morning was an ordeal....)

I saved the best for last....

- Has successfully faced the archdemon KHORONZON in the Great Outer Abyss!
(BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!) :locolaugh:

So. Anybody here met him? 'Cause I've been to the great abyss, and know a few other people here who have, and I never met any MR. KHORONZON. Nor have I heard his name mentioned outside of this book.

Maybe he was away from his desk? Should I have left him a postet?
"Leyla was here, 5am, Wednesday." Should I keep going back 'till I find him, then insist that he terrorizes me properly?

I have met one dragon while on the astral, and he did not have any of the fancy titles presented by this book. I have been called a dragon once while on the Astral, but I assure you, it was nothing like what they describe.

And I would like to add, the Arch-Angels/Spirit Guides I have met did NOT go by the weird names laid out in this book.

But wait, there's more....

It lays out this whole strict higherarchy, in STAGES and GRADES and LEVELS. More titles than they've got at the Vatican.

:WTF:

My question is this: On WHOS AUTHORITY do they lay out these stages, grades and levels? Who told them that was correct?

Why does somebody over on this side, think they get to dictate to me who I am, what grade, level, stage, and title I have, over on the other side?

Far as I'm conscerned, the only entities with the authority to give me a "progress report" on my soul, are my personal guides, my God/s, and myself.

[Vilkate]

Could you tell me more about the great abyss? Maybe KHORONZON is reading this and will finally find his way home!  :rolling:

[Leyla]

Soon, they'll put his name on milk cartons.

[Vilkate]

Seriously, I'd make up my own "pay-per-enlightenment" new-age teachings (I'm quite talented when it comes to making up stuff) and earn some good money, if I didn't know how bad it is to mess up minds...  :aliendance:

[knightlight]

I agree leyla.  Before I began to AP and meditate and just generally look for my own answers I was obsessed with the occult, magick, all that jazz.  I spent hours on the internet printing out "powerful ancient documents" and doing my best to study them as well as researching the work of conjurors like Solomon and people like Crowley and so on.  I find there works interesting to say the least now, but at the time it was like I had entered into this magical world where no one else was allowed and had unlocked ancient powers.  What did I get from those hours of research and experimentation?  Nothing.  

I find that list of requirements ridiculous.  If I entered any part of the astral and requested to meet with that Mr. Kronzonozosoon guy I could be talking to him at the drop of a hat.  Big deal.  He would be most likely a figment of my imagination, a thought form, what have you.  How would this be different from anyone else who pursued him???  It wouldnt.  So all this stuff does really is give me a headache and make me ask "Why??? For the love of god WHY?"  It just makes thing so complicated.

In closing, I find this kind of thing fun to read and think of how the person who wrote it came to this conclusion, what they experienced and how it can help me out, but in the end its basically just poetry as far as I'm concerned.  One giant metaphor not to be taken literally.

[Leyla]

One of the other things that turned me off to this form of magick is that it's anti-goddess.

For instance, it lists the name very ancient "AMMA" as meaning "CURSED."   It does not take a language expert to tell you Amma, Ma, and Mama all names of mother goddesses.

BABALOND it says means "HARLOT."  Now the great goddess of Ishtar of Babalyon was indeed known as the great harlot, but they're making it out like it's a bad thing.

I quit off it when I decided I didn't like this YaHWeH character, I read the old testimant, he seems violent and crazy.  

I wouldn't want to invoke someone if I wouldn't want him moving in next door.

[Max]

Leyla, I applaud you. Finally, someone who seems to have more than just one lick of sense. I dont care about any of the mystical crap. I would just like to AP one time to know what its like. Apparently, you have a good grasp of it. Got any advice on how I can achieve an AP? Thanks for what you posted. It sure was a breath of fresh air.

[Iljed123]

- Has successfully faced the archdemon KHORONZON in the Great Outer Abyss!
(BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!) :locolaugh:

Well maybe an archangel wasted him? I mean how long can one demon hold on to his territory before some angel decides to fight with him?

And if KHORONZON was wasted does this mean its the end of the dragon race?!? Or maybe it's just dropped off the list or requirements?!?

[Vilkate]

Awh, stop worrying about :skull: KHORONZON :skull:, guys, I bet he just went on vacation to visit his old mom!

[Leyla]

To answer your question Max, 90% of my experiences are involuntary.

However, the three methods I've used sucessfully to achieve OBE or AP on purpose, are the rope, interrupted sleep, and tapping/drumming.

[Iljed123]

Awh, stop worrying about :skull: KHORONZON :skull:, guys, I bet he just went on vacation to visit his old mom!

Or maybe he's playing one giant game of Hide-n-go-seek with us, in which case i think we are loosing.

[mcbiggs]

Hello,  Many years ago I practiced ceremonial magic  with several other people, we had many encounters that I cannot explain, however after much searching, and one certain AP experience, I believe that demons, Gods, and others are fabrications, some with much energy. The Ap opened my eyes to how much I didn't really know, I was afraid of being attacked by demons, when suddenly a hand appeared with a feather quill and wrote these words in a very deep violet color: "All that Jazz".

[Leyla]

mcbiggs - Can you explain specifically how you had many encounters while practicing ceremonial magic? Because I never figured out what you're supposed to do with those cubes.

[Leyla]

[Vilkate]

If you read below his picture, you can see that KHORONZON consists of milk and vitamin D3. And, that he should be kept refrigerated. Consider this - demons are thought to be created from fire and other hot things of such kind. If KHORONZON, on the contrary, was made of milk that should be kept refrigerated AND didn't realize it (because his fellow demon playmates were all made of fire) AND spent his time in different, hot demon locales, then, he obviously...got sour! And died! :crazy:

A great mystery revealed, folks!

[Hagethuriel]

I have certainly never used any of these things to achieve an OBE or AP, despite the fact that is what they are supposedly designed to do for you.

Fair enough ,but have you ever projected above the astral ?

It promises that if you become a "true magickal dragon" you can "roam freely through all parts of the universe both visible and invisible."

Who wrote that , please  ? Was it Crowley ?

- Has had the conversation with his/her guardian angel.
(Did this before I bought the silly book.)

What book please ? K&C / GA is good but the important bit is the re uniting of the GA with the HS  .

- Safely passed through spiritual realms beyond and returned with full memory of the experiences.
(Who here hasn't. )

Don't knock it until you try it .Most  have never been to the spiritual realms . What realms have you seen Layla ? Please describe them .

- Has wandered the invisible pathyways of the watchtowers and aethyrs
(You mean had an AP? )  

I think  these magician authors  are speaking about the higher planes that are not reached through AP .

So. Anybody here met him? 'Cause I've been to the great abyss,

I don't think anyone can cross the abyss without going to Kether .  I don't think archdemons are in the Astral . But please explain how you got to the abyss and what did you see there ?

Who told them that was correct?

Who are they ?What authors are you "quoting"? What makes them readable and loved by magicians is that the classic authors wrote what can be validated by us today . The proof is in that .  We confirm them by projecting to the spiritual realms that they described .

[Selski]

Hi Hagethuriel

Whilst I don't want to knock your beliefs in any way whatsoever, it is posts like yours that make me want to walk away from the whole AP thing.

Just what is "above" the astral?  How do you know it's "above"?  Am I right in assuming the physical is the lowest realm/plane/whatever term you wish to use?  

The GA with the HS?  Can you please let us know what you mean by GA and HS.  Guardian Angel?  Higher Something?  I know it might be obvious if you've read the books, but some of us haven't, and I for one would still like to follow the thread, if only to decide whether I wish to read these books or not.

Kether  Archdemons???

AP'ing is starting to sound like an organised religion from what you are saying, with realms and higher/lower planes and demons and whatnot.  

Based on the fact that I haven't a clue what you are talking about, I guess I've only ever been to the astral plane, which is probably the next step up from the physical and is hardly worth bothering with when you've been to the Spiritual Realm.  

Sheesh, if this is where AP is headed, I'm going the other way.

Sarah

[Hagethuriel]

Enochian, Kabalah, High Magick posted by Layla

I must say I still find it quite uselsess.   Seems full of complex symbols, names, talismans, tablets, and hard to pronounce names all of which are designed give the impression of being of great importance somehow. :evileye:   I have certainly never used any of these things to achieve an OBE or AP, despite the fact that is what they are supposedly designed to do for you.

But these methods are not for AP , these are for other realms .

It  

Please Layla , what is IT ? What books ? What authors ? Selski wants to know too , thank you  .

promises that if you become a "true magickal dragon" you can "roam freely through all parts of the universe both visible and invisible."It's got this whole list of things you must first complete before becoming an "Enochian Dragon." (oooooh.) - Has had the conversation with his/her guardian angel.(Did this before I bought the silly book.)- Safely passed through spiritual realms beyond and returned with full memory of the experiences.

Did you project beyond the Astral though ? The point of such  books , Selski and Layla , is not about AP or etheric OBE as in RTZ either . The abyss is not in the Astral either .

(Who here hasn't. )Safely passed through spiritual realms beyond and returned with full memory of the experiences

Selski says that they have not .

Has encountered both angels and demons.(Whatever you want to call them.)- Has wandered the invisible pathyways of the watchtowers and aethyrs(You mean had an AP? ) - Has had at least five major ordeals.

Selski , this is where the demon is  mentioned by Layla .  

(Traffic this morning was an ordeal....)I saved the best for last.... - Has successfully faced the archdemon KHORONZON in the Great Outer abyss!
(BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!) :locolaugh: So. Anybody here met him? 'Cause I've been to the great abyss, and know a few other people here who have, and I never met any MR. KHORONZON. Nor have I heard his name mentioned outside of this book. Maybe he was away from his desk? Should I have left him a postet? "Leyla was here, 5am, Wednesday." Should I keep going back 'till I find him, then insist that he terrorizes me properly? I have met one dragon while on the astral, and he did not have any of the fancy titles presented by this book. I have been called a dragon once while on the Astral, but I assure you, it was nothing like what they describe. And I would like to add, the Arch-Angels/Spirit Guides I have met did NOT go by the weird names laid out in this book. But wait, there's more....It lays out this whole strict higherarchy, in STAGES and GRADES and LEVELS. More titles than they've got at the Vatican .WTF My question is this: On WHOS AUTHORITY do they lay out these stages, grades and levels? Who told them that was correct? Why does somebody over on this side, think they get to dictate to me who I am, what grade, level, stage, and title I have, over on the other side? Far as I'm conscerned, the only entities with the authority to give me a "progress report" on my soul, are my personal guides, my God/s, and myself.

Hi Hagethuriel , Whilst I don't want to knock your beliefs in any way whatsoever, it is posts like yours that make me want to walk away from the whole AP thing.

Selski you are confused , please understand that  this is not my post . Layla wrote the post  titled Enochian ,Kabalah , High Magick and it is not about APing .

Just what is "above" the astral?  How do you know it's "above"?

Because kabbalahistic authors have written about this for over two thousand years and in contemporary times the now deceased Robert Monroe also  wrote about the other realms he phased into eg the spirit homes of the deceased beyond the AStral .Franz Bardon , Aleister Crowley ,  Alice Bailey etc have written about the realms beyond  the astral . But this thread is not about the astral or about APing . This thread is about Kabballah and Spiritual Realms .  I know these authors are right because I project there and because I have these experiences too .

Am I right in assuming the physical is the lowest realm/plane/whatever term you wish to use?  

No actually. There are lower ones . AP is only about the Astral Planes and does not include RTZ or totemic planes or Hells .

The GA with the HS?  Can you please let us know what you mean by GA and HS.  Guardian Angel?  Higher Something?

I think Layla might have been reacting to Aleister Crowley's books  but I am not sure .

Layla wrote "Has had the conversation with his/her guardian angel."

Aleister Crowley writes about K&C/GA  , the Knowledge and communication with the Guardian Angel and Higher Self . But I do not know which books or authors Leyla is disparaging because  these are not cited or sourced . Suppose you ask her because I would like to know too ?  

I know it might be obvious if you've read the books, but some of us haven't, and I for one would still like to follow the thread, if only to decide whether I wish to read these books or not.

I agree please ask the author of the thread to cite the references and sources for us both , thank you . Selski hun I am not the author of this thread . I only posted the last reply before yours . Did you read the whole thread ? If not maybe that will help you to understand it better

Kether  Archdemons???

Sigh , maybe you should ask Layla . Kether is in the Kabballah again that is what the title says this thread is about . I do not understand why you don't know this . Are you a native english speaker Selski ? If not maybe someone can translate this or explain Kabballah and Kether and archdemons and the abyss to you . Is there a glossary here ?Or do you know how to Google ? Maybe you could google it and find out .  I don't know what else to write to make you comprehend this passage but it is tiring me out . Layla wrote about crossing the abyss .

Layla wrote ; " Has successfully faced the archdemon KHORONZON in the Great Outer abyss! "

This is done by going through Daath to Kether . Ok ? These are sefiroths or spheres in the Kabballah . You know what the Kabballah is don't you ?

AP'ing is starting to sound like an organised religion from what you are saying, with realms and higher/lower planes and demons and whatnot.

No you are confused Selski . This thread is not about AP and I did not post it and I did not write about seeing demons in AP , Layla did . And Kabballah is not about APing . And High Magick is not religion . But why are you asking me ? I see you are a moderator so you must know how to do a search . I would think you were writing to Layla but you addressed your reply to me

Hi Hagethuriel , Whilst I don't want to knock your beliefs in any way whatsoever, it is posts like yours that make me want to walk away from the whole AP thing.

and this really confuses me . I don't know you . I don't understand how much you comprehend of what you read or what your background is . I cannot understand how to make you see that this thread is not about AP and that I did not write it  and that I did not write that demons are in the Astral . Layla wrote that and said that it was "dumb" but the archdemons are in the Abyss on the way to  Hell so Layla also seems confused . Layla could not have been expected to meet any archdemons  in the Astral Planes at all .

Based on the fact that I haven't a clue what you are talking about, I guess I've only ever been to the astral plane, which is probably the next step up from the physical and is hardly worth bothering with when you've been to the Spiritual Realm.  

AP again ? See there is the problem right there , this thread is not about AP . Demons are not in the Astral . Well maybe human hosts can carry some there but I have never seen one there . This thread is about the Kabballah and the higher planes reached if a magician works in kababalistic magick .

Sheesh, if this is where AP is headed, I'm going the other way.Sarah

Sigh , yes ,perhaps that is best .Maybe as a moderator you  could move this thread  to Magic because it could be that readers of that forum would have the prerequisite skills and background knowledge to comprehend it and reply with a fundamental basis of understanding .But I did not post this thread . Maybe ask Leyla why it is here instead of asking me what the basic terms of this lexicon are  .
<BR>
Certainly some readers  in an OBE forum would be expected to know about phasing and Robert Monroe's works to reach these levels of consciousness though. You could ask the members on this  thread about other realms from the Astral or the Physical ,maybe .
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23563&highlight=
I am sorry Selski , if  I did not make this easy enough for you to understand this time but I tried though .

[Selski]

Thank you for your explanation Hagethuriel.

I guess I was confused.  I occasionally get interested in a thread I know nothing about, and I bumble in without really giving it much thought...  

I suppose I ought to keep out of threads I don't know much about!

Thanks for the response though.  I'll do some googling.

Sarah

[Leyla]

I ignore this post for a few days and look what happens.

I would like a clear explaination of exactly how you say you are using these magick squares to achieve a projection.

The astral is any place beyond an RTZ OBE where you can communicate with entities of a higher intelligence. What the makes you think you're going "beyond the Astral?" Is there a sign reading "Now Leaving Astral City Limits?"

If you want to study projection, you're better off with the works of men like Bruce and Monroe.

This Order of the Golden Dawn you hold in such high esteem was based on forged "ancient" texts, which were exposed as fradulent in their own lifetime.

And Alister Crowly, whom you also seem to hold in great respect, may never have visited the Astral at all, claiming to have gained his "occult wisdom" from laudanum, opium, cocaine, hashish, alcohol, ether, mescaline and heroin.

It could all be a figment of his drug addled imagination. Have you actually read some of the stuff he claims to have channeled?  If he was in contact with anybody, it was a lesser beings playing a prank on him.

His writings are of Pedophilia, Bestiality, and here's a real classic depicting necrophiliac cannibalism:

Yea, thou art dead. Thy buttocks now
Are swan-soft, and thou sweatest not;
And hast a strange desire begot
In me, to lick thy bloody brow;

To gnaw thy hollow cheeks, and pull
Thy lustful tongue from out it's sheath;
To wallow in the bowels of death,
And rip thy belly, and fill full

My hands with all putridities;
To chew thy dainty testicles;
To revel with the worms in Hell's
Delight in such obscenities;

To pour within thine heart the seed
Mingled with poisonous discharge
From a swollen gland, inflamed and large
With gonorrhoea's delicious breed;

To probe thy belly, and to drink
The godless fluids, and the pool
Of rank putrescence from the stool
Thy hanged corpse gave, whose luscious stink

Excites these songs sublime. The rod
Gains new desire; dive, howl, cling, suck,
Rave, shreik, and chew; excite the bonk,
Hold me, I come! I'm dead! My God!

Crowley started off his childhood tourturing cats to death, and as an adult was witnessed baptizing a toad as Jesus of Nazareth, then crucifying it in the middle of the street, no doubt in a drug haze, explaining that this act somehow promoted him to the rank of Magus.

I suppose you would have liked to be one of his original students? His filthy little cult was holed up for three years in the Abbey, which visitors described as a hygienic nightmare, "rife with the stink of sh*t."

Crowley adorned the walls with often grotesque murals and paintings of various occult subjects. Several accounts described the sacrifice of small animals in magic rituals.

He claimied to summon whole hosts of astral demons to attack his enemies, and to have murdered them with magick.

This is taken from a channel 4 documentary about the life of Crowley:

While in Egypt with Crowley, his wife Rose found out that she was pregnant and later gave birth to a daughter, Lola Zaza. Later, on a trek in Vietnam, Crowley abandoned them both, however, and his daughter died of typhoid – a tragedy that Crowley blamed on Rose and her increasing alcoholism. Left alone in grief, she descended into madness. She would not be the last lover of his to do so, nor was Lola Zaza the only child of his to die.

Crowley penetrated deeper into the world of the occult, taking another lover, this time the male writer Victor Neuberg. Together they travelled to Algeria and the Sahara to perform an Enochian ritual to summon up Chorizon, the demon of the abyss. This rite is said to open the gates of hell.

Eventually, like Rose before him, Neuberg was left psychologically ruined. For Crowley their time together was more productive, however. His intense sex sessions with Neuberg had convinced him of the power of sex magick. From then, his two obsessions were married: sex and the occult.

After the outbreak of the First World War, Crowley was rejected by the British intelligence service and – in a huff – turned to the Germans, supporting them by writing anti-British propaganda. This made him an outcast in Britain and in 1920, two years after the war ended, he went to Cefalu in northern Sicily and created a temple in an old farmhouse with his new mistress Leah Hirsig. They had a child together, and under the influence of opium and cocaine they founded a new religious cult.

Stories of depraved sexual acts at the abbey quickly began to circulate, one of the most notorious involving Leah. A goat was sacrificed while penetrating her. She, and many others, were becoming severely unbalanced and addicted to drugs, and Crowley himself was increasingly dependent on heroin and cocaine. In this environment, she had a nervous breakdown. Crowley and Hirsig's child died.

The end of the Abbey came when Raoul Loveday, one of Crowley's disciples, died after drinking the blood of a cat. Mortified, his wife Betty May fled back to England and sold her story to the press. The British media immediately dubbed Crowley 'the wickedest man in the world'. The temple was disbanded and many of Crowley's former disciples went mad or committed suicide. Leah Hirsig turned to prostitution.

Finally, in 1923, a year after Crowley published his Diary of a Drug Fiend, Benito Mussolini, the Italian dictator, had him deported. Crowley went on to publish more books – such as Magick: In theory and practice and his Confessions – but his reputation had been damaged. As the years passed he began losing touch with reality. He spent his final years penniless, a sad figure living on the favours of friends. A chronic heroin addict, he died in Hastings in 1947.

If this man was a great spiritual leader worth following, then you would see it reflected in his life and actions...Instead we find a string of suicidal drug addicts, insane women, and dead babies.

Why study Crowley when you could just rent "Train Spotting?"

[Stillwater]

When I first began to study meditation about a decade back, it was through the writings of an Indian guru. I think most of what he said was fairly straight-foward, but there were traces of odd utterances here and there. He would occasionally go off on a tangent about how he was from time to time in more than one location, or how he could just wander off from his body and "speak with the ancients". From the perspective he wrote, one could understand why he took such a casual attitude toward these decidedly peculiar accounts, as the "Sidhis", as paranormal abilites are called in the Vedic Upanishads, are not meant to be pursued, but are said to hinder spiritual progress, as they attach a person to the world of selfish desire.

Now I respected the opinion of this fine fellow (not knowing what to make of his accounts), but I wished to know more about the odd things he touched so lightly upon. The sources I encountered were full of complete and utter rubish, spouting non-sense about "integrating one's many selves into a unified ego", and alien conspiracies, so I was turned off to the subject of projeciton and its family of mental practices, until I found material that I believed took a more lucid approach.

My point is that there is a large body of non-sense assoicated with paranormal practices that attempts to be authoritative, calling on massive proper-nouns like Mr. "KHORONZON" for backing, and failing to provide a citation for where these terms were drawn from.  I think many of these sources stem from the general "NEW AGE" movement in the 60's, when the western world was so tired of war that it would accept any rubish as truth to get itself out of the hateful "realworld". Much truth may have been interspersed in these writings, but it is buried in madness, and now "hippy" is a synonym for a gullible fool.

[Alaskans]

If this man was a great spiritual leader worth following, then you would see it reflected in his life and actions...Instead we find a string of suicidal drug addicts, insane women, and dead babies.

Why study Crowley when you could just rent "Train Spotting?"

You said it sister!  :Iagree:  Whats this guy trying to push? I dunno... do we come off as necrophile canibals into crucifying toads? Trading your light for madness, selfishness and self loathing, sounds great, it sure has worked in the mortal world. We arent stupid enough to hate ourselves for probably ever just so we can (maybe) see different planes, when we could just wait till our short mortal lives are over and be free to roam as more powerfull beings of light.  :angel: Perhaps its a neccicary element in the world but dont try to push it on us.  I'll leave the hate and self loathing to the  :shadow2:  people, and you can <insert here>...  :angry3: ...goozfraba...

[Hagethuriel]

I would like a clear explaination of exactly how you say you are using these magick squares to achieve a projection.

Leyla are you writing to me ? If so please address me . I saw your PM asking me to reply but it did not say what thread . You need to communicate better . If you are addressing me then I can only be more puzzled because I don't know what you are on about . What magick squares ? If this is not the post you wanted me to reply to please post the addy , thanks .

The astral is any place beyond an RTZ OBE where you can communicate with entities of a higher intelligence.

Actually this is incorrect . The Astral is not a higher realm  and the mahatma are not reached in the astral . There are links in the archives regarding accepted definitions of what the astral is . Good authors for you to research are Robert Monroe , Alice Bailey and , Franz Bardon .
The Astral Planes are defined in various ways but all definitions are similar . The Astral is either one broad areas above the etheric and below the monadic plane or it is defined as two or three regions called the lower , middle and upper Astral . I find that the three region definition is the most correct . The lower region begins above the physical plane and includes an etheric buffer that rises from the RTZ up into the astral . The middle is what all agree to be the astral having nothing else no etheric no higher realm entrance . The higher astral is usually the one people project to when they first enter the higher realms . This is the place that the akashic records are kept and there is an entrance to Shamballah there .

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17085&highlight=higher+realms+monadic+plane+astral
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16196&highlight=higher+realms+monadic+plane+astral

What the makes you think you're going "beyond the Astral?" Is there a sign reading "Now Leaving Astral City Limits?"

If you develop your senses you will know by seeing and hearing while in the realms . The Astral looks like clouds and mists with floating colours and other projectors but no angels or spirit teacher and no temples or forests . There are many descriptions of the realms on the net . Alice Bailey , Blavatsky , Hurtak , Stone , Monroe and Bardon wrote on them .

If you want to study projection, you're better off with the works of men like Bruce and Monroe.

I agree I have read all of Bruce's works he is an expert on the Astral  . Monroe explains the higher realms though through his phasing method to expand the consciousness .

This Order of the Golden Dawn you hold in such high esteem was based on forged "ancient" texts, which were exposed as fraudulent in their own lifetime.

This is your opinion and it is different than my own . It is not a fact . And I am not a member of the Golden Dawn but the members of the Golden Dawn have provided so much for the world in terms of occult information .

And Alister Crowly, whom you also seem to hold in great respect, may never have visited the Astral at all, claiming to have gained his "occult wisdom" from laudanum, opium, cocaine, hashish, alcohol, ether, mescaline and heroin.

That is not how his name is spelled and I am sure that he did go there because of his descriptions which match what I see when I go . He is the only one who describes the black cube . I have read his works and I feel you are greatly mistaken and misinformed  . Here is a clearer perception of his contributions . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley
http://www.cix.co.uk/~mandrake/crowley.htm

He is not alive to defend the allegations you have posted but i could if you would have posted valid citations . You have greatly exaggerated his faults and done nothing to show that you know the man . A lot of his works can be found online .
http://www.rinf.com/e-books/Aleister-Crowley.html

[Leyla]

Hagethuriel

What magick squares ?

The magick tablets. With the squares that are suposed to spell out the names of the dieties who rule over the regions. I thought you claimed to know this stuff?

The Golden Dawn "ancient" texts were famously exposed as frauds...which explains a lot, as they are quite technical, complex, and silly.

You say they are real, so I am challenging you to tell me how exactly you use them to achieve a projection. (BTW, if you can you would be the first.)

Actually this is incorrect.  

OMG, according to whom? Look pal, you can split hairs over technical terms and jargon if you want, but until one of these intelligent entites tells me I'm "beyond the astral" then I say I am in upper astral realms.

His descriptions which match what I see when I go.

And are you also on laudanum, opium, cocaine, hashish, alcohol, ether, mescaline and heroin? Because Crowley never achieved "magickal journies" any other way.

Projection is achieved in a state of "mind awake, body asleep" therefore this casts serious doubt on his claims.

I have read his works and I feel you are greatly mistaken and misinformed .

It is you who are misinformed about Crowley. Few of his worshippers have any knowledge about the man whom they have put on a pedistal.

Allow me to explain:

Crowley was raised in an extreem Victorian Christian home. He was taught that magick was EVIL. Therefore, he believed that to practice magick, he had to make it EVIL.

His knowledge and beliefs about witchcraft and the sorcery were probably taken directly from the likes of such works as The Malleus Maleficarum.

He called himself the "Beast" and "666", and reinacted what Victorian Christians imagined Witches would do at Black Masses.  [Goat sacrificing, Drugs, Orgies.]

We have all seen such lurid fantasies depicted in old wood cuts, and paintings. Unlike Crowley, most of us know not to take them seriously.

These "fans" read his books and start hero worshipping him, not knowing how he lived his life. Anybody who wants to can submit to Wikipedia.

Did you think he would confess to all the suicides, animal sacrifice, and dead babies in his books? I didn't think so...For one, he'd be implicating himself criminally.

I gave you all the names, places, dates and facts you need to do your own research on that Nazi. (Oh yes, he was a rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth hater of Jews, Blacks, Hindus, and whatever other race you care to offer.)

Until then, Don't bring your toad crucifixion around here.

[Hagethuriel]

squares that are suposed to spell out the names of the dieties who rule over the regions. I thought you claimed to know this stuff ?

(deities) First it is difficult to reply when you don't place the full quote on the thread. I cannot  see what it is you are responding to . I  don't think they are called magick squares but I don't evoke with sigils.

The Golden Dawn "ancient" texts were famously exposed as frauds...which explains a lot, as they are quite technical, complex, and silly.

They are not complicated at all . You simply do not have the ability to use them . But you really need to speak to a Golden Dawn occultist to get an earnest reply . I am not one . I find that the rituals of the Golden Dawn such as the LBRP are effective and the esoteric works such as the descriptions of the realms are accurate .

You say they are real,

Who are they ?

so I am challenging you to tell me how exactly you use them to achieve a projection. (BTW, if you can you would be the first.)

Well I believe you that it would be a first because when I did a search to see what was in the archives to explain the astral plane definition  to you I saw posts by you  from two years ago claiming that you could not figure out how to get there then .

I tried to get to this hall or records but think I landed in the wrong place....There was whipping wind all around, and when I tried to enter one I was pushed back by the astral wind. Apparently the place was "off limits" to me.

But I will try . To project consciousness is aptly described by Robert Monroe's phasing model which has been discussed on many threads at this site . Open in protection using the LBRP for example . Deep cleanse using  yoga breathing methods . Raise energy using  NEW. Strengthen your energy body . In time you can learn to enter trance in meditation and project as you will .

OMG, according to whom?

every metaphysical author that has ever written about the realms ie
Bailey , Stone , Hurtak , Blavatsky , Monroe , Bardon , Cooper , Fortune
All distinguish the astral from the higher planes . Using books for door stops is the difficulty .Open those books and read them , here are some definitions to educate you ;
astral plane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_plane
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Astral_plane/id/58488
higher planes
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce06.html
http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/Wingmakers/The%20seven%20Cosmic%20Planes.html
http://www.share-international.org/ARCHIVES/AgelessWisdom/aw_ajplanes.htm
http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum/index.php/topic,17846.0.html
http://www.geocities.com/santmat_mystic/ChartPlanes.jpg
http://www.kheper.net/topics/Theosophy/kosmic_planes.gif
http://www.santji.allegre.ca/planes-640.jpg
http://www.kheper.net/topics/Theosophy/kosmic_planes.gif

Look pal, you can split hairs over technical terms and jargon if you want, but until one of these intelligent entities tells me I'm "beyond the astral" then I say I am in upper astral realms.

You can say you are in the upper realms right now but that does not make it any truer . You might as well claim you live in Shamballah . The spirit teachers are not in the upper astral realms .They are in the monadic planes and higher . The astral is a like a veil between the physical world and the higher realms .

Adi
Shamballic
Monadic

Astral

Etheric
RTZ
physical
Totemic

I do not believe you have gone to the higher realms from all that you have written because you show no understanding of them . But perhaps I am wrong what have you seen there ? And who did you meet ?

His descriptions which match what I see when I go.

And are you also on laudanum, opium, cocaine, hashish, alcohol, ether, mescaline and heroin? Because Crowley never achieved "magickal journies" any other way.

This is such an awful thing to write . You are obviously as rude as you are ill informed  . It will be difficult for you to raise your projection to see the higher planes because you are negative .Negativity causes a lower vibration .This will limit you . If you want to be nice , I will try to teach you .  I enter meditative trance completely sober .

Projection is achieved in a state of "mind awake, body asleep" therefore this casts serious doubt on all his claims.

Projection of the etheric or astral double is achieved in this method . The projection of the conscious is not . There are many subtle body layers and many forms of projection . It is difficult to understand how you could be on this site so long and not have learned that .

It is you who are misinformed about Crowley. Few of his worshippers have any knowledge about the man whom they have put on a pedistal.

I actually never wrote that I worshipped him . I merely asked you to cite what books you were criticising . You have taken this completely off topic to attack me instead . I study kabbalah and I project to the realms . I worship God not people . You should learn to use the spelling cow by the way because you really have difficulties . (pedestal )

Anybody who wants to can submit to Wikipedia. These "fans" read his books and start hero worshipping him, not knowing how he lived his life.
Did you think he would tell you about all the suicides, animal sacrifice, and dead babies in his books? I didn't think so... Funny he would fail to mention all that.

This thread is not about the hedonistic substance abusing life of Crowley . It is about kabballah and magick . You stand corrected in all that you derided about the realms , the abyss and projecting to work with spirit teachers . I do not worship Crowley . He was a man . He was an excellent occultist . He did not live a noble life . But that does not invalidate what he learned and taught about the occult . It would be a point in a debate about ethical behaviour but you digress .