Falling asleep

[DJ Faceless]

First off I would like to say, hi, i'm new here, but not quite new to the whole OBE / AP lingo. So anyways, I get to points where I begin to feel my body falling asleep but my mind ALWAYS falls asleep before I exit my body.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks

[Selski]

Hi DJ Faceless

How long have you been trying? 

It can take months, sometimes years, before one learns Mind Awake Body Asleep.  I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but I would say the majority need to practice, practice, practice.

Took me months.  Even now, years later, it's still hit and miss, and most times I fall asleep.

Sarah

[iNNERvOYAGER]

Hi Sarah,

I've been playing around with starting a terminology study of terms expressed on AP forum, and in general.

I started with "concentration" / "concentrate"

I noticed during a search that you posted advise to "not concentrate" during a trance session.

You'll notice that if you do a search on these terms that many people are trying to express a concept by using the word concentrate.

I'm thinking that we all don't have a  consensus on the meaning of the terms concentrate or concentration in the context of describing the experience of achieving a trance state that will lead to phasing or Astral Perception. 

[DJ Faceless]

How long have you been trying? 

Well on and off for the last 4 years. I mean, I mainly lucid dream, but occasionally I have projected. Only a few times at will tho.

[Awakened_Mind]

Concentration is the exclusion of everything else bar one thing. Attention is the absorption of everything ambient.

Your mind is falling asleep because it's tired. Things that help are meditation, holding a trance state is an essential ability for consistent OBEs. I'd start of trying during the day when you are fully awake, learn to quiet your mind so that you're comfortable with it's silence.

-AM

[Selski]

I'm thinking that we all don't have a  consensus on the meaning of the terms concentrate or concentration in the context of describing the experience of achieving a trance state that will lead to phasing or Astral Perception.

I think we don't have a consensus on the meaning of any terms! 

A lot of the posts here end up going round in circles about the meaning of a certain word.  Even the word 'dream' can mean different things to different people.

For myself, I found 'concentrating' to be a barrier when relaxing.  It was too restrictive.  I tend to 'let go', 'go with it' and 'relax further into the sensations'.  Which is pretty much the opposite of how I interpret the word 'concentrate'.  I had to allow my mind to slip further towards sleep, otherwise "concentrating" kept me from the hypnogogics.  There is a fine line that you need to walk, but concentration kept me from getting anywhere near that line.

Maybe I've got it wrong.  Maybe concentration is the key.  It might be so, given that I can't get 'there' every time - it is still hit and miss - often I will slip too far over the line and fall asleep.

Concentration simply wasn't helping me.

BTW, good luck with the terminology.  Be prepared to have it minutely dissected when it's ready. 

Well on and off for the last 4 years

From my personal experience, you have to literally eat, breathe and sleep OBEs.  Saturate yourself with them.  Think about them constantly.  "On and off" doesn't sound like it's a real burning passion.

If I have even a couple of weeks when my mind hasn't got OBE near the front, then you can bet your bottom dollar that I'll have no experiences.

Sarah

[DJ Faceless]

thanks for the tips guys! :] alright. well, i'm also focusing heavily on building up my muscle so that kinda poses a problem to try and obsess over two things at a time, but i guarantee where there's a will there's a way. ;]

[iNNERvOYAGER]

DJ, If you're already a coffee drinker, it could help to have one weak cup of coffee, half as strong as usual before a session.

Or, after you doze off then wake up, you'll  be a little more rested and will be able to maintain awareness longer for the next cycle.
Continue dozing and waking, maintaining awareness and attention longer each time as long as you can.

The next morning try again and you'll have better results more quickly.

Sarah, A-M, thanks.

Seems that when people say concentrate, they're likely to be describing attention, deep lucid relaxation, focus, quiescence.
Hard concentration on my forehead has actually caused me head aches in the past. I just naturally stopped letting that happen and as you say, relaxing is the key.

[Selski]

Hard concentration on my forehead has actually caused me head aches in the past. I just naturally stopped letting that happen and as you say, relaxing is the key.

Me too.  I found that during relaxing, I'd notice my forehead was puckered into a frown - due to concentrating on being relaxed!!! 

I learned to stop focusing on relaxing, and just relax.  Easier said than done, but it was much better.

Sarah

[Stookie]

Here's one of my views on concentration (if anyone cares):

Normally, awareness is all over the place, jumping from one thought to the next, covering a large amount of thoughts and sensory input. Imagine awareness as a blanket spread out to cover all these things. I view concentration as being able to shrink the blanket (awareness) to only cover what you intend to cover. The smaller the blanket, the more concentration. Being able to shrink awareness to cover only one thing and hold it takes a ton of practice.

Concentration could be considered an intentional manipulation of awareness. Relaxing helps concentration because there are less things (sensory input) that the blanket naturally covers. Fully relax, THEN concentrate, like on an exit technique or meditation exercise.