F4 permanent

[cavernstoy]

According to frank, we all decided (in F4) to become physical for the purpose of experiencing life.  Will we stay in F4 forever when we phase into it (after we die), or will we return to this physical world to experience more in a continuous cycle?  It would seem like all of the positive experiences of of the universe would be overwhelming enough (not to mention what could still be created).

Thanks

Cavernstoy

[AndrewTheSinger]

Wish I could answer that, but very little is known about what will actually happen to our consciousness when the body dies. It could be that we wake up from life like we wake up from a dream and find ourselves in a familiar place around familiar people and then it goes

[cavernstoy]

To me, that would really be bad if we had to just start over again for ever, unless of course, its gets MUCH MUCH better and better everytime. 

Cavernstoy

[MisterJingo]

Something to consider is that our current categorisation of emotions, colours, sensations, concepts, basically everything we perceive, how we perceive etc might be a one time emergence from this current time and place. Even temporal and spatial locality might be properties of this time and place rather than innate facets of creation.
Our brains perceive in the only way they can; we percieve, construct, deconstruct, associate, dissacociate in the only way we can (which to a degree explains the structure we perceive around us). This leads to a very 'human centric' view of creation (iced with the current social and societal behaviours and viewpoints of the time).

The point of this rambling is, that even if things do start over and over again we might not even be able to conceive of our current mode of thought or perception - or we might not even have the faculties to conceive of anything at all.

[galaxy_storm]

Visit this site http://www.near-death.com/ and read through "NDE Research Conclusions" many interesting insights into the Afterlife

[CFTraveler]

If you consider the possibility that this universe has an end (it appears to have had a beginning) then all that we consider 'physical' (or, time and space as we know it) would cease to exist, and if existence is even a word after that, it prob. would be very different.
Which is kind of what MJ said but more low-tech.   

[Gandalf]

According to Frank's findings (so far), everyone who is reading this has decided to experience that wonderful option known as 'Human existance'.

We experience a huge number of these physical human lives at the same time, and over a range of different time periods and even other physical universes.

Afterwards, when we have spent as long as we need to recovering in the 'astral' ie F3, then we will refocus back to F4  once again. There will be no need to have another human experience because we will have experienced so many human lives that we will have pretty much covered all the angles possible in a human experience.

Once we arrive back in F4, we can decide what to experience next.

The physical world systems, all of which join on to F4, are designed to allow us to directly experience all manner of experiences in objective reality, but we must remember that Human experience is only one part of this opportunity of experience.

We can experience being all different types of lifeforms that you can imagine such as insects, cats and dogs, birds etc and thats only the start - what about what we would call 'innanimate' objects - rocks, trees, clouds, pencils, an areoplane, planets and stars, or something more abstract - a musical note? a colour? a ray of light? What about experiencing at the bacterial level -or the molecular, or the sub atomic or quantum?

Indeed anything you can imagine can all be experienced, and in experiencing them it gives you ideas for further experiences.

There is actually an infinite number of experiences since the physical universe itself is constantly changing and evolving and as we bring new ideas into it, this affects the mix.

When we think of the old mystical notion of everything being alive, of a living conscious universe - this view is actually correct.

In F4 we can also engage with the 'concepts' of all these things and gain further insights into them.

Remember also that consciousness does not end in F4 - consciousness is infinite - so there are likely to be an inifinite number of other 'F4-F1' systems, perhaps similar to ours, perhaps wildly different - nobody knows too much about these others yet - we are hardly scratching the surface with our own so its best to concentrate on that first!

[cavernstoy]

That was a great response frank!  But how in the world were we intellegent enough to start life in the first place, before we had any experiences at all?  You said that our F4 was full of "human" experience.  Mabe we will reincarnate into a more evolved and amazing creature?   Hopefully intelegent enough to end suffering this time.

Cavernstoy

[Gandalf]

Unfortunately I am not actually Frank Cavernstoy! lol

As for your question, you have to remember that when we expand our consiousness to full-on F4, our 'human' experience becomes just a tiny drop in an ocean of experience, so I would not class F4 as 'human' - it is way beyond 'human'. When you engage with F4 you will become aware that you have went through a vast array of different experiences in objective reality, of which being human is the latest.

As for the process behind us getting together (in F4) and starting up this physical system - the jury is still out on how that came about, but it seems to be a 'standard' development in systems such as ours that Physical systems are created in order to experience objective reality - a physical system is THE way of experiencing objective reality -it is the 'end product' of everything started off in F4. It is likely that in all systems, this process follows the same overall format although as i said nobody really knows about them so the specifics of these other systems may be wildly different. However they will all involve the creation of a physical system of some sort in order to experience objective reality - objective reality IS the physical system.

[Kylies]

Well, I'm just digging in, but I started with Autobiography of a Yogi (book). You just might find that interesting, and it'll give you more interesting things to think on too. It certainly gives a good go at answering that. I found it.... good.

[iNNERvOYAGER]

Cycle of the malfunction called creation:

"Oh I feel so warm, comfy, and peacful, but it's sooo boring!"

"hmmm, I wonder what it's like to hit myself in the head with a brick? That  sounds exciting."

whap whap whap whap....   "oh that's not right. Why did I do that? Oh it feels so good when I stop hitting myself in the head with a brick"

(after the astral R and R period)

"Oh I feel so warm, comfy, and peacful, but it's sooo boring!"

"hmmm, I wonder what it's like to hit myself in the head with a brick? That  sounds exciting."

and so on until dissolution.....   

( sometimes it just seems like this )

[Gandalf]

ummm.... you've lost me completely now!

[Nay]

Tehehehe...  Just say NO. 

[jub jub]

We can hypothesize until we're blue in the face. One fact remains true, we'll never know the answer until that eventful day! 

[Gandalf]

I disagree.

Thats what astral exploration is all about.

It is possible to achieve a degree of experience which banishes all doubt. It takes time but you will get there IF you stick at it.

I now have absolutely no doubts about the astral world and where we are 'headed afterwards' to use a term someone used earlier. Mainly because i have already been to several of these areas and have personal experience of them. You dont need to wait 'until afterwards', you can go there now.

Once you get into the astral with 100% awareness, not just lucid... I mean 100% awareness, so that what you are experiencing is JUST AS REAL AS WHERE YOU ARE SITTING NOW READING THIS, or even more so, you will find that these areas become much more stable and you will soon be in no doubt as to the reality of your experience.

Keep practising raising your awareness each time you have an experience... that's the key.

In my opinion 'phasing' is the way forward. This approach is one of the greatest breakthroughs in the exploration and understanding of our greater reality ever to be made.

[iNNERvOYAGER]

Thats what astral exploration is all about.

I've had a small taste of being released from the burden, body lighter than air, not a single ache or pain, not hungry, tired or worried, no concept of a negative thought,  and with only one desire on my mind, to explore.

My question is similar to Cavernstoy's, why would we cycle back to physical live after we've figured out that it involves a lot of punishment?

I can only guess that we're taking turns, playing the actors and adding content to the drama, or participating in the relaxed detachment of the amused audience.

[Stookie]

From an F4 point of view, pain wouldn't be considered "bad", it would just be a archetypal concept related to physical experience. And to progress on that side we need a wide range of experiences, good and bad, here in the physical.

[Novice]

Another thing to consider is that what we perceive to be past/future lives could all be happening simultaneously. So there isn't the "back and forth" repetitive nature you are suggesting, rather we have all of these diverse experiences at the same time. I'm not saying that is what is occurring, but I think it is just as possible as the linear concept.

I also don't think that we duplicate experiences because we 'forgot' about them from a previous experience. I think things that make a big impact on our consciousness is retained when we leave the physical. Our individuality is molded and shaped based on our experiences and that is how we 'evolve', for lack of better words. We take what we learn and expand on it, build on it, deepen it, etc.

In that way, we can experience the same situation multiple times, but it is possible to perceive that experience as different each time, because each time we experience it we are different than we were the previous time we experienced it. That difference is the result of our growing based on the previous experiences...not sure that makes any sense to you or not though.