Falling asleep.

[Tyr]

I just try to understand Your
Experience. So You very easily
can alter Your body to the state
shortly before falling asleep.

But You can not make the falling
long enougth to controll it, but
instead it hits you within 1/100 second,
right?

[holy reality]

well the falling feeling can last a very long time...

but the actual feeling you get when you know your body is asleep and you are paralyzed, that only lasts very very shortly.

my normal mind stops thinking and my unconscious/subconscious mind starts wandering and making me hear voices and see things.

and when that happens, i almost fall into a trance, but i since my normal mind has fallen asleep, i can't stay in it and i jolt out of it really fast.

it's almost exactly like when you are going to bed and you start to dream that you are walking. and then you trip on something in the dream and it makes you jerk awake.

i think i have a sleeping disorder or something because i have this problem a lot, i automatically jerk awake whenever i start falling asleep.

but my problem with trying to OBE is that I can't keep my mind awake while I put my body to sleep,  basically.

[Tyr]

i very often have this sudden switch to the dumb awareness,
were you just act, but not able to control it,

the day before I had a clean AP ..

and its just ...that this AP starts IMMEDIATLY
I laid down .. after a minute or less I felt
comfortably and immediatly after feeling comfortably
I had visions.. i still was able to control it ..
the visions god bigger and realer,
but I was so very impressed, that
the dumb-awareness took over,
and I fall dreaming ..

[Zarklon]

I know exactly what you are talking about holy reality. I am at that same exact point in my progress.. I've had many many OBEs in the past but all of a sudden I cant seem to have them anymore. I am able to maky myself fall asleep no matter how awake I am within 5-15 minutes and I notice when my mind starts randomly thinking about stuff, hearing things , etc.. (imagery state). My problem is that I cannot remain awake for very long once that state hits .. I will notice it getting really strong and the imagery getting so vivid that I know I'm about to get sucked into it and sure enough.. I DO! I wish I could tell you what to do but at least it seems like you get paralysis and get jolted awake .. I rarely get to that point but if I were you , I would try projecting from a sitting position.. not a position where you are too comfortable.. but I think it could make you have different experiences and maybe you could work from there.  I have a lot less of a chance to OBE when I'm on my back or something but sitting in a school desk and listening to my class chat in the morning , I'm able to OBE much easier because I'm listening to something and constantly staying interestedin the gossip while my mind is daydreaming about it.. suddenly I'll realize I have a mind that is clear as a bell and no thought is happening.. that is the point of disconnection I believe.  Lately I've been getting that during class but I cant seem to do it at home for some reason.  Try a different position to project in is my suggestion to ya, good luck

[Kristina]

Holy Reality, you are very close.  If you can get to that state where you are drifting off and quickly snapping awake you are basically there!  If you've mastered total relaxation (in 5 minutes!) and keeping your mind clear you have made tremendous progress.  Before I started projecting regularly I was at that same point.  I got so frustrated, what I started doing was shouting at myself (mentally, as I drifted to sleep):  UP AND OUT!  UP AND OUT!  UP AND OUT!  I really let myself have it!  And it worked.  As soon as my waking consciousness faded out, I was instantly out of body!  I just had to be really, REALLY firm with myself, at that critical moment.  I recommend trying this since you really are right at that critical juncture.  Keep the image of rope climbing going as you drift out (or whatever works to give you that feeling, but pick one thing and stick with it), but as you drift toward that sleep border, start mentally shouting UP AND OUT!!!  Say it like you won't take no for an answer, as if you were commanding a dog to do something (would you take no for an answer from your dog?  No way!).  Good luck!

[holy reality]

well part of the reason i can "relax" so quickly is that i have severe .... something... problems... i guess you could call it chronic fatigue? I don't know... just general lack of energy unless I have just been immediately excercising, it's probably related to my horrible diet...

but I tried yelling... I went crazy inside, but it all died anyway.

See, I think there is a form of insomnia related to the falling asleep then jerking awake, and I think something is wrong with you if that happens every single night, etc..... so I think if I were more "normal" in sleep cycles, etc... then I would not be having this problem.

Because I tell you, I cannot NAP no matter what the best I get is 30 minutes half awake/half asleep....

So it's like, I know I'm getting deep enough since I can sometimes feel the paralysis rushing in, but while it is rushing in I'm waking up, so there is no point to it... the tiem to leave the body is the time when MY mind is sleeping, and my "Unconscious" is rambling on and on.

It's like an off switch is flipped in my head... I mean... when I get to the borderline state where I know I'm not going to be "awake" for more than half a minute I can just go crazy screaming in my mind, trying to do rope, saying over and over again "your mind is going to stay awake while your body goes to sleep"  but it JUST DOESN'T WORK...

i spent hours this morning upon waking up messing around with it, and yes I eventually ended up in non-lucid dreams, which eventually led to lucid dreams... but... I mean I remember I was saying a mantra about staying focused over and over again, and all of a sudden an hour had passed and I had been half awake/asleep and dissconnected from myself, and I was like "what happened to my mantra? Was I asleep?"

I just do not have the capability to focus my mind at all really, not when it starts the process of going into sleep frequencies.

Unless I happen to be in sleep paralysis or somthing during the normal night anyway.

and I tried it sitting down in a comfortable chair and the same thing happened last week, I could try sitting on the floor but I think I'd either fall down when I hit paralysis, waking myself up, or that I wouldn't be comfortable enough to get there in the first place.

-------

also I dont' really use any method to get to this state, I just let my mind do what it wants to and keep the desire to get there in the back of my mind.... rope and such is completely pointless for me until i'm actually paralyzed, mainly becuase i can't focus enough to even imagine a rope once i get near the state.

[Zarklon]

here an interesting tidbit of info--

If you think you have to be totally relaxed , in a quiet place , without stress , and without bodily pain to project then you are W.R.O.N.G... Whoever might be thinking all that , just throw it again because I can tell you this.. I've projected sitting indian style in 50 degree or less weather in my school gym on a bench literally no wider than half a foot wide (yes really small bench for some reason next to the bleachers).  

I've also projected sitting in school desks a lot more often but if I'm able to sit indian style somewhere with my head in my lap completely almost as if I'm almost going to do a tumbleset then anyone can project like that. I didnt think it was possible.. hell , I was just trying new things. I actually made over 5 concious exits that morning in school.  

If you are worried about falling over , I understand that because when I went to project from a sitting position in a school desk , (not with my head on the desk) it felt as if I was sliding out of the desk either to the left or the right but when I would go to reposition myself.. I would realize that I didnt really move at all so I got fed up with it and simply LET myself fall that way and instead of my body hitting the ground , my astral body hit the ground instead.  So if anyone is trying to do that in school , you might want to give that a shot.. the feeling of sliding out my desk was as real as it gets but I wouldnt have cared about embarrassment either way if I woulda fell out for real so.. heh..

Good luck holy reality , if you want to talk on messenger sometime about projecting , I might be able to offer some ideas since we are in the same boat here. Same goes for anyone else , heres my contact info:

AIM=ScrotomicBomb
MSN=Nothingreallytrue@Hotmail.com
Yahoo=Soul_biscuit_22
ICQ=13147691

[rcatania]

Holy reality
I am having a very similar issue. I am told by my wife that when I wake up I am gasping for air. It is like a sleep apnea, but I am not over weight like most people who have this condition. Somehow breathing and projecting are not jiving for me. As I am close to the relaxing point, were I would go into the energies and pop out I now get jolted awake. I have had issues with the paralysis as well. I found some positions like falling a sleep on my stomach very dangerous for me. I get not only paralysis, but I can't breathe while I am paralyzed (like paralysis alone was not fun enough)
I actually am able to get out of the paralysis when I have had it along with air. When I cannot breath it gets really scary. My wife has been instructed to shake me when I make certain noises. I try to wake her when it happens. When she shakes me it breaks it immediately. I try never to fall asleep on my stomach any more.
Do you attempt AP alone? I cannot tell most of the time what is waking me without her telling me.
Rob C

[holy reality]

yes I try to AP alone..

I guess it COULD be apnea, but I never find myself gasping for breath, perhaps my body is doing something weird when I fall asleep though.

About 3 years ago, around age 14-15ish, I started sleeping on my back, and I'd frequently wake up gasping for breath, so I stopped doing that and it hasn't happened since..

I know what you are talking about with the paralysis and not being able to breathe, that is really scary and I get it on my stomach sometimes too, but I think (at least for me) it's just in my head... that I can really breathe I just think I'm suffocating because my face is up against the pillow.

But I try not to ever be in that same position either... once in the car I woke up into paralysis and felt a bunch of drool slowly sliding down my throat... I thought I was about to die with my entire family around and there wasn't a thing I could do about it... I think I fell back asleep and woke up into paralysis several more times before being able to move my head to a better angle.

I think that if you started to inhale drool your body would immediately wake up and cough it up though? Well anyway, it was scary.

I don't have anyone to sleep with ( [] ) and if I did I'm sure they would hate me because I tend to hit SP and come out of it punching at things that aren't really there, and I have so many false awakenings that if someone was trying to talk to me during one of them I'd probably freak out on them thinking they were... you know... not real...

I could see myself injuring someone pretty badly due to that, actually....

but I don't have any friends that could just watch me try to AP or anything either... I have a teacher that meditates and I could talk to her about it, but I lack the initiative and confidence to really initiate a meditation conversation with her.

Some good old alcohol would fix that... but you know... I'm old enough to be drafted to die for oil, but not old enough to drink.

land of the free?

[holy reality]

just now i was trying and i faded into seeing some sort of doctors room or something, only i could hear my normal thoughts, which I think were a mantra, that were still going, and I felt kind of aware, it got very deep and then for absolutely no reaosn at all, it just abruptly ended and I jolted back into normalness.

I was thinking differently or anything, I was just passively observing, almost unconscious, but not quite... and when I came out I realized that if I had been able to stay there long enough I may have been able to at least have a lucid dream.

So I don't know what is going on with this. Before that one of the times I came out of it, there was a bright flash of white light and the jolt was extremely violent, like being hit with a hammer or something, as if I had been going very deep and suddenly aborted.

[holy reality]

I can get completely relaxed to the point of falling asleep so easily during the middle of the day... in maybe a 10 minutes span.

In fact today I spent what felt like ages working at trying to OBE and only 46 minutes had passed... in that time I had fallen asleep/jolted awake dozens upon dozens of times..

and I know that providing I knew what in the world I was doing, one of those fallings would have easily brought me into a deep enough trance to leave my body for at least a few minutes.

But the problem is I have two minds, quite literally... I'm not sure I believe in the freudian viewpoint of a conscious/unconscious but it seems right...

See at first I only have my conscious mind running.. and through deep breathing and focusing upon everything around me, it slowly turns off, and as it is turning off, the unconscious turns on... once the unconscious kicks in in full force it overpowers my conscious mind (which is my sense of self basically)

So it's like....

conscious mind: stay awake -- *silence* -- *STAY AWAKE!!!!*
unconscious mind: random thoughts and voices conversing

and the silence gets bigger and bigger until I can't stay conscious/focused for more than a few seconds...

when that happens I get huge jolts of paralysis when i COME OUT of the silence, but the paralysis either only lasts 1/100th of a second, or I was paralysed while in the silence but unaware, and now that I'm waking back up into conscious thought for a few seconds, the paralysis dies.

I've tried altering my breathing pattern, mantras, looking at the colors, rope, imagining a scene to go to... nothing works... I'm literally falling asleep and I cannot keep MY mind awake while this happens.

I can keep myself on the border for so long where it feels like perpetual following if I really strain the hell out of my brain, and I do feel heavy, but I never get *there*

The best alternative really seems to be just looking at the colors while straining your eyes, as it kind of feels like that might initiate REM, and it keeps you focused... I haven't been able to mess with that enough to see whether it works.

But I am really stuck here... I've been like this forever... at least 3 months... I get better and better and better at getting myself to this borderline sleep state within 5-15 minutes, usually, but that's about it.

(It's also ironically hard to get myself to this state when I actually want to go to sleep at night)