Experience I can't explain

[Mandrivnyk]

It started out as a normal dream. I don't recall the entire "plot", however I do remember that it felt very meaningful (like many dreams do).  

I was in a room with some very important figure, who told me "I will show you the way" and explained what I need to do, in order to astral project. The instructions even had a diagram. Basically he told me to first start by hovering over ground in a lying position. Then to start rotating at an accelerating speed. I did it and immediately felt like I was almost falling. - I could no longer see anything around myself. This continued for just a moment.

Next thing I know, is that I'm lying on my bed. Yet I feel very different, I've never felt like this ever before (and I have many lucid dreams, they're nothing out of the ordinary for me). My vision was in slow motion, as if I was seeing it all through an old  digital camera slide by slide. Yet it was so fresh and real, that I immediately realized that I was finally APing. This was a very overwhelming feeling of excitement. My mind was clean, unlike in a dream.

I slowly got up and saw that my body was not lying on my bed. This was the point at which I had another, sad realization - this was not astral projection. I was very confused, because I knew that this wasn't a dream either - I have both regular and all kinds of fully and semi-full lucid dreams all the time. This was different.

I tried to wake up - but I couldn't. The waking up part took me much longer than from a dream. Usually in a lucid dream it's very easy to instantly wake up, while here I wanted to yet it was happening very gradually, slowly.  

- My guess is that it was a dream which tried to manifest what I think AP would feel like. Any other thoughts would be appreciated - thanks in advance.

[Mandrivnyk]

Then you're suggesting that this was a real out of body experience?

[Eloquence]

...where my body got out of bed and wanted to come along for the ride...

LOL
you serious? That would be so freaky seeing myself hop out of bed and wanting to follow!

[Mandrivnyk]

That would be incredible, but I'm very sceptical

In this experience, I could see my hands. How would I be out of my body if I'm seeing the body?

Thanks for your comments and answers by the way.

[jalef]

you see your hands because its kinda habit to have hands. also you feel as though you have a body although im still not sure whether you have one or not :confused:

if you would have looked at your hands for some time then youd see them melt. its hard to describe but very interesting and it is something that never happens in lucid dreams.

[upstream]

You got excellent instructions and had a good quality OBE. (Next time remember the diagram too.) The trick you were told to have an OBE reminds me to my original trick of spinning back into the sleeping position. It started with reaching out from the dream back to my sleeping body without giving up the dream, then spinning the dream body as fast as I could. This often resulted in the feeling of moving in the direction of my physical body, spinning and shrinking at the same time. For some reason, rotation in dreaming has a centripetal effect on consciousness, keeping things together not flying apart.

Your method is more simple as you have identified yourself with the remaining energy body from the beginning. Thus, you got the falling sensation instead of the experience of being a jinn and flying back to his lamp. But both methods are best suit for non ordinary starter dreams. I think your vision was slow because you had a continuous downloading channel operating between the initial dream and your bioplasm body. The dream internal speed was greater than of the real time and after separation you were still adapted to it. This is rather interesting as it localizes the "time quantator of attention" in the dream body and not in the brain / bioplasm body.

Not seeing the body is normal. Usually, the best I could see is an inclination on the bed or a pulsating grey mist. The first is probably a symbol of an "almost meeting," the second is raw perception. As Tom, a few times I had luck with another me and having good time to freak out each other. Once I saw myself getting up from the bed with the same lame movement I did later so I think what I saw was actually me from the next separation episode of the same projection. A typical projection has many separation episode that bloom out from the same real time root. It is perfectly common to have only one separation then flying away in many directions at the same time. Upon awakening the brain interprets these episodes as happened sequentially.

[upstream]

Hands are the last part of our body that disappear when a raw OBE state set in. Similarly, hands represent the first intrusion of subjective content in objective OBE states without interfering too much. Having hands is an inherent parts of the human condition because they are symbols of manipulating our environment.

You can easily check the integrity of your waking personality by looking down at your hands. If they don't seem to belong to you or have a weird appearance you either run on very low lucidity (which will improve simply by this recognition) or your hands symbolize that you are at the verge of a yet unknown state.

For example if you see veins in your hands or faint light emanating from it, it may be the symbol that you reached the consciousness of your expanded bioplasm body. After separation you are still in this body and many things you feel around your dream body are part of it, so don't try to remove.

[upstream]

You were right btw about 3D blackness being at F12. All these other sensations like isolated noices, popping sounds, and other hypnagogic stuff are really just transitory phenomena in getting to F12 rather than characteristic of focus 12 itself.

Hi Tom. Basically 3D darkness is a pre-dream darkness somewhere in deep F10 / F12 when brain activity that coincides with conscious attention isn't longer focused in the primary visual cortex but rather on its way to being delocalised in the thalamocortical system.

So right before the 3D space you are looking into your own mind, seeing faint memory pictures, fleeting hypnagogics before an indistinguishable background of darkness. This is probably deep F10. The darkness is similar to but not exactly the same as the ordinary darkness of closed eyes.

As the retraction process continues in F12 you leave the pre-dream darkness and reach the 3D space. The energy body expands more, become fully open in the magnetosphere to receive information, or release your personality. You can phase or complete a traditional OBE by splitting the sensory field in F12 and exteriorising a portion of the bioplasm field in F10.

Thalamocortical reverberations generate tube like organs that projects into various domains of the consciousness, personal and collective memory banks, remote events and other compartment of consciousness in various focus levels, etc. to compose the unconscious background of our waking consciousness.

Since all compartments have its own memory bank and personality, and a mostly unidirectional flow of information, self-realization could be measured as the degree of mutuality in the informational exchange that takes place beetween these compartments.

(The ultimate goal would be of course to increase coherence and build a super-organism (or rather realize it from a potential state) while remaining firmly rooted in the biosphere by using biological organisms as energy sources.)

These tubes of perception are also used as tunnels to travel through in phasing. Usually a frozen picture appears at first beyond a hole or something, then it becomes animated. Then you can open the hole by panning your attention and zoom through the hole.

If you instead switch your attention back to the darkness that lies immediately behind your closed eyelids you can see the thalamocortical reverberation through your primary visual cortex as a simple pattern of light blobs, increased central luminescence.

[Mandrivnyk]

I deeply appreciate all the input everyone has put into this.

This is all very interesting. If this is so and the advice I was given is correct, then I'm puzzled - how can I get an advice in a dream? Isn't dream created by my mind alone - or can there be penetration into it from outside, like another being? And if so - this was it?

I'm looking forward a lucid dream tonight, so I can perform the trick again and possibly AP

[upstream]

I really admire how you so uniquely, and independently make sense of your experiences.

The scary part is that I fully understand what you're saying, and agree with all of it albeit I often use a different terminology.

If interested, this last experience of mine convinced me fully on the 3D blackness being F12 located quite closely to a deep 10, and ties in with several of your comments.

Thanks, Tom. My terminology doesn't reflect how I think about these things but probably it's the best way to explain myself. The mystical language is better but this time we want to share information not inspiration.

I'm afraid my comments are not new for you and I just repeating myself with my clumsy English, but what you described in that thread reminds me to... (no please, please no again)

THE CONSCIOUSNESS CONE!  :surprise:   :orcmoon:

Seriously, how could someone come up with a better and more practical symbol than the concept of a cone that projects above the head into the depths of consciousness?

Your feelings about the REBAL seem quite appropriate to me cause I've always associated the process of phasing out of the body with the toroidal flow depicted in the REBAL.

But I have mixed feelings about the original exercise. Monroe suggests to visualize a protective bubble around ourselves by reinforcing the surface of a donought shaped body via the breathing process. The the organism bounded plasma indeed shaped by the electromagnetic field of the human body into a torus, but I doubt that the funnel like upper depression (omega aperture) on the bioplasm body has anything to do with the consciousness cone.

The omega aperture may be the exit point of the organs of perception (the fluxus tubes I mentioned in a previous post) which are generated by the thalamocortical system. They may be good for classical phasing (zooming through holes within the mind) but not for a phasing styled OBE (which you described)!

The consciousness cone is the continuation of our body in the higher focus levels, a series of successively more delocalised energy fields, layers of the human aura. In other words, we sit inside a self-made space that appear to be connected to the rest of our self via the cone.

So when we come to the idea of doing OBE via phasing, we would benefit more from a REBAL exercise that emphasizes the isopotential lines (that project into infinity at the omega aperture and curve back to the alpha) above bioplasm. Pumping the plasm around the body would probably just render you pray for RVers but I admit, it's an excellent way to start an etheric OBE. It could halt the phasing process in different stages as spinning with a second body.

One of my favorite OBE drill is to shift my focal point out of my chest with a passive exhalation to a point above my head. At the same time I collapse in bed like a rag doll. I do this periodically in trance and every time I capture myself getting back from drifting away.

In the toroidal version of this maneuver I bend the exteriorised energy back like a fountain and rotate around my body quite like in the original REBAL. This sometimes end up in being a spinning double. Even if does not, it's good to relax and to center myself in the bioplasm body.

As sleep deepens the cone gains more reality. I can literally feel the vast expanse above me if I want to. Keeping the feel of this connection while drifting into sleep is probably the holy grail for unifying OBE and phasing.

Considering our vertical constitution, the space above our head probably has greater significance than any other, but I wouldn't be surprised if you were able to feel the 3D space at 8 o'clock too, if you happen to be in that mood. I never tried it but many times felt strong pressure in my base chakra and my solar plexus upon awakening.

Sometimes the point shift tricj simply doesn't work but by fiercely concentrating on a point above my head for a couple of seconds I would able to get a good enough grasp on a second body of some sort to attempt separation. Then it takes 1-2 minutes of slow movement and swaying to get somewhere.

The point above the head in the holographic body space is mysteriously connected to the geometric center of the energy body, the region of the solar plexus which is where I focus at the beginning of an OBE attempt. I feel myself breathing there to empty my mind and to trigger sleep. Along with the neck these two space, the one above the head, and solar plexus are part of the same triad, I call exterioristation or OBE triad.

This triad is exclusively for OBE. It's an energy configuration that coincides with the out of body state. To simplify things I'd say that during an OBE the focus of one's consciousness or something resides in those parts of the energy body that are associated with these spaces of the felt body. The solar plexus is the main candidate of bioplasm OBEs. In my initial experiences I have felt my cord connected to the solar plexus of my dream body. Similarly, neck is for dreaming (even the cord moves to that point when vision appears), and the point above the head is for phasing. (Corresponding homeopatic frequencies are 250, 500, 1000 Hz respectively - note they are harmonics of each other).

There is another triad, too, which deals with the state of being in the body. The IBE (or autopoetic triad) consists of the middle of the three cavities, probably directly corresponding with the three dan tien. The hara region (200Hz) mainly deals with internal vibrations, the middle of the chest (400Hz) with internal buzzes, and the middle of the head with entopic lights (800Hz). This is also the triad though which you can induce waking paralysis.

Basically I suspect the IBE triad to be a function of the thalamus and other reticular systems of the brain in general (e.g. ARAS for hara), while the OBE triad is mostly about the thalamocortical system as a whole and other gestalt systems not being confined to the brain. The frequencies mentioned above may be operational frequnecies of various thalamocortical loops, relay nuclei and could be useful for those who want to build brainwave generator presets. In this case, these frequencies are meant as carriers of binaural beats. You can extrude and activate consciousness in the corresponding parts of the C-continuum (see FFT analysis of TMI's tapes for concrete examples).

To ensure better memories and induce paralysis you can establish yourself in the IBE triad. This is simply done by concentrating on all or a combination of the above mentioned autopoetic signals (internal vibrations, noises, lights). This will potentiate auto-suggestions, too. Then attempt to phase out of your body either by doing the point shift method or by other means that connects the two triad. Almost every projection method can be traced back to triad dynamics.

Gradually phasing out of the body means a smooth shift between the IBE and OBE triads. Therefore, the following shifts happen at the same time:
1. The process of getting a separable body is connected to the shift of consciousness between the hara and the solar plexus;
2. A chest's to neck shift transforms inner buzzes to more complex noises and music;
3. The shift at the upper parts of the triad (middle of the head / forehead > the point above the head) coincides with the process of having hypnagogic pictures and dream-lets besides simple blobs of inner lights.

Since all this happen at the same time, where the center of consciousness trapped within the triad after the shift is being completed, determines how the projection is subjectively perceived. It's perfectly possible to have an RTZ OBE yet hearing higher aspects of our self communicating with you through the upper parts of the triad, as it has probably happened with you, Tom.

[Iljed123]

.....can there be penetration into it from outside, like another being? And if so - this was it?.............

I am relatively new to the idea of OBE and all but i am a philosopher of sorts. One day i ran across a very interesting philosophy about dreams. The person who wrote it(i can't remember who) said that dreams are not a window into the conscious but a portal to another universe. This theory led me to my discovery of OBE and the likes. And while study astral projection to prove or falsify the previous statement I ran across another interesting theory.

This one stated that while our astral bodies are in the RTZ and any of the astral planes our minds posses the ability to create worlds of our own as a sort of sub-plane to the plane we are currently in. It said that the portals to the dream sub-plane manifest themselves in the plane that you were on when you entered the dream area. The said portal is open to all beings and energies that also exist on the plane you left for your dream area.

So the being that helped you in your 'prepping dream' could have been from the plane you had left behind for your dream.

But this is all speculation and nothing has been proved on it either way as far as I know. But having said that i would love some input on both of the two theories because id like to have my facts straight.

[CFTraveler]

.....can there be penetration into it from outside, like another being? And if so - this was it?.............

I am relatively new to the idea of OBE and all but i am a philosopher of sorts. One day i ran across a very interesting philosophy about dreams. The person who wrote it(i can't remember who) said that dreams are not a window into the conscious but a portal to another universe. This theory led me to my discovery of OBE and the likes. And while study astral projection to prove or falsify the previous statement I ran across another interesting theory.

This one stated that while our astral bodies are in the RTZ and any of the astral planes our minds posses the ability to create worlds of our own as a sort of sub-plane to the plane we are currently in. It said that the portals to the dream sub-plane manifest themselves in the plane that you were on when you entered the dream area. The said portal is open to all beings and energies that also exist on the plane you left for your dream area.
So the being that helped you in your 'prepping dream' could have been from the plane you had left behind for your dream.

But this is all speculation and nothing has been proved on it either way as far as I know. But having said that i would love some input on both of the two theories because id like to have my facts straight.

I would speculate that both theories are right.  If our consciousness is of the nature that it can exist simultaneously everywhere, then our dreams could be a manifestation of our experience in inner/outer worlds.  But also we do process information from both worlds, so we do populate or influence these places with what our subconscious has accepted as true, (or is processing at the time.)

[upstream]

Probably it's more than just speculation since layered dreaming utilizes similar mechanics. Basically you lay down in a dream or in the RTZ and project inwardly as you were phasing or doing hypnagog WILD. You sort of zoom through a hole that appear within your mind without actually moving with your slumbering body. It's far more easy to do in dreaming if you clear about your goals. You can also separate from your dream or RTZ body in another body. Either way you end up at another layer of dreaming which is somehow contained by the previous.

The main difference is that separation usually puts you into a version of the previous layer, while phasing has no such limits. Basically this is what we do every night to reach dream land. We shift into the energy body then phase into our personal dream word. Fake RTZ OBEs, in which you see a different world than it should be, are usually false awakenings that take place on a second dream layer. They happen when you dream about separation while already being in a separable bioplasm body. These fake OBEs usually colored by an unique feeling that is different in almost every case and relate to each other as grapes on a vine.

I have yet only one shared dreams that I was able to adequately verify. We slept close together in the same position. I suspect that when you sleep close to a person you can enter his or her dream with more ease. It's probably partly due to the overlapping energy bodies and are similar in effect to the force that build our consensus waking word. Could be also that mimicing the position of one's sleeping body acts as an identifier in not just one way. You can use it not only to reconnect with your own sleeping body while being in a dream but you can also use it to connect another person's dream while being in his expanded energy body and mimiking his sleeping position. You can do this either with your sleeping body or in the RTZ with your second body.

Probably this is the reason why helpers and "old hags" appear around the bed when while infiltrating someone's dream. I also fly a lot around in dreams with various entities on my back while having awareness, at the same time, of talking and being stationary with them "somewhere else." This "somewhere else" could be the RTZ bedroom or another previous layer of dreaming. We would be lost without having a bioplasm body to keep a copy of ourselves in safe!

***

Tom, got tired of the icy Canada? We couldn't afford such trips here. In the interim, please phone home to stop killing innocent baby seals or we will butcher the camels! Seriously.

[Job]

Well, the case is that everyone has an Astral body. Not everyone has a Causal body of course. And, of course, lucid dreams and regular ones occur in the astral plane.

I recall an experience that I had as a child. Laying down in bed I decided to instantly fall asleep. Immediately I felt the throbbing vibrations that come when in the transition of astral projection. Paralysis occurred with this sensation (I tried to scream but couldn't). The sensation passed. I again decided to fall asleep instantly. The same thing happened.

What I didn't understand then was that all I had to do to get in to the astral was to get up.

I recall another experience of unexpectedly falling asleep and being grabbed by a hairy green entity while in the bed.

Of course, for someone to understand that they leave the body as sleep occurs, they have to experience the whole process of falling asleep consciously.

Something that will help with maintaining attention while falling asleep is to chant a mantra just before going to bed. One famous mantra that will aid in this purpose is called FARAON.

Pronunciation:

FA (as in Far)

RA (as in Far); the R is trilled like a motor.

ON (as in Stone)

Each phrase of the mantra is said prolonged:

1. First, lay in a comfortable position, or sit in a comfortable posture or chair.

2. Inhale slowly and deeply. Then, slowly exhale saying FAAAAAAA

3. Inhale again, and again slowly exhale saying RRRAAAAAAA

4. Once more inhale, saying OOOOONNN upon exhalation.

5. The mantra is said on and on repeatedly.

Inhale...
FAAAAAAAAA(exhale)
Inhale...
RRRAAAAAAAA(exhale)
Inhale...
OOOOOOONNN(exhale)
Inhale...
FAAAAAAAAA(exhale)
Inhale...
RRRAAAAAAAA(exhale)
Inhale...
OOOOOOONNN(exhale)
Inhale...
FAAAAAAAAA(exhale)
Inhale...
RRRAAAAAAAA(exhale)
Inhale...
OOOOOOONNN(exhale)

I used to say a mantra for as long as I could just before going to bed. It had great results as far as maintaining my attention as I fell asleep.

(PM me for a sound file of the mantra)

[Kodemaster]

Mandrivnyk:

I had a lot of these experiences before I started having the "classic" or "ideal" type OBEs. They take place in an earth-like setting (not as wispy and surreal as the "ideal" astral plane), and feel/look to real to be a dream or lucid dream.

We need to come up with a term for these experiences. I've been trying to come up with one...I was calling them "pre-projections" or "low-level astral projections" but I think I/we can come up with a better term.

Anyone?

[Iljed123]

Once again i have another theory for you. These "low-level projections" as you called them are actually using a small amount of energy. The theory is that our astral entities can absorb and operate at different energy rates.... the higher the energy rate the higher the plane in which you travel. Obtain higher energy levels is beyond me and of course as usual with most things i post this is all speculation based on countless theories.

But taking it outside speculation for a second. I had a LD just the other night and i was cruising along like jet plane (I've always loved the sensation of flying) and for a minute something was beside me in the clouds. It assumed the body of a dolphin and was hopping from cloud to cloud. I had the weirdest sensation that i knew him(it was definitely a him) from somewhere else. I stopped to try and glimpse him again and he hopped out of the nearest cloud. Levitating in midair i got the strongest sense of danger and then the dolphin winked at me and dived at my location. Just as the tip of of his bottle nose touched my form i woke up.
I haven't been able to remember any dreams since.

Anyone got any ideas to what why a dolphin would be warning me of danger? and stopping me from dreaming?  :question: