Maybe there are benefits of suffering after death.
Maybe the earth authorities wouldnt allow the cure to spread.
Maybe humans became extinct before a cure was found so the knowledge doesnt exist anywhere.
Maybe some of the cures we already have did come from astral.
What is the Astral Dimension?
"The astral is the closest dimension to the physical. It overlays and permeates the world like a huge mind net, catching and holding all thought. Its contents are created by the collective consciousness of the world mind. It contains all the thoughts, memories, fantasies, and dreams of every living thing in the world. In it, the laws of sympathetic attraction, or like attracts like, causes this ocean of mind stuff to strata and settle into layers or pools. These pools of thought are more commonly called astral planes, astral worlds, astral sub planes or astral realms."
"The astral dimension is composed of astral matter and is aptly described as mind stuff. It is extremely sensitive to thought and can be moulded into any shape or form. These creations can be so perfect as to be indistinguishable from reality."
"The best way to explain this, mind stuff, is to draw a comparison between astral matter and unexposed, high speed photographic film. When this film is exposed to light, focused by the cameras lens, a perfect image of reality is instantly burnt into the film by the chemical reaction of the film to light. When astral matter is exposed to thought, focused by the lens of the mind, a perfect image of reality is instantly formed out of astral mind stuff by the reaction of astral matter to thought. The complexity and durability of any creation in the astral dimension depends largely on the strength of the mind doing the creating."
Dreams
"This is how the subconscious mind creates dreams: By tuning into the astral dimension during sleep, it can create any scenario it wishes. This is the subconscious mind's way of solving problems and of communicating with the conscious mind. It creates a series of complex thought form scenarios and projects them into the mind stuff of the astral dimension, where they become solid. The conscious mind then lives through and experiences these created scenarios in the dream state. In a way its like a movie projector (subconscious mind) projecting onto a movie screen (astral dimension)."
Thought Forms
"Any new object in the real world is assimilated into the astral dimension over a period of time. A thought form representation of it first grows in the lowest part of the astral, close to the physical dimension, becoming more and more permanent as time goes on. As with all thought forms, the more attention paid to it the quicker it grows."
"The higher up in the astral dimension, or the further away from the physical, the less thought forms, of the physical world, as we know it, are found. Physical things have to soak in to it for a very long time before they take shape, and are found, in the higher astral."
"Have you ever tried to move around a strange house in the dark? You bump into everything, right. But as you become familiar with it though, a mental picture of your surroundings forms in your mind, and you can find your way around it better. The longer you spend in this house the stronger this mental picture becomes. This is similar to how things are assimilated and grown, as thought forms, in other dimensions."
"The generation of thought forms in the astral also works in the reverse. If a physical object has been around for a very long time, it will have grown a lasting thought form impression in the astral. After the object is destroyed or removed, its thought form still endures. You may, for example, in the astral, find furniture in your house you don't have, jumbled up with your own. This is caused by the decaying thought forms of old stuff, belonging to previous tenants etc, still being there, years after the originals have gone."
"Old thought forms do not follow their physical counterpart around when they are moved. New ones begin to grow in the astral wherever it is while the old ones slowly decay. The longer a thing is in one place, the stronger the thought form will become in that place. This also applies to buildings, structures and geological features. You may project into a park and find a house, bridge, stream, hill etc that you know is definitely not there. These may have existed in times past. The higher up in the astral you go, the older the thought forms are, or the further back in geological time you appear to be."
"The rate of growth of a thought form depends largely on the amount of attention paid to it. For example, a famous painting; loved, viewed and highly thought of by millions, will have a much stronger thought form than that of a common painting that hangs in someone's bedroom and is only viewed by a few. The number of thought forms you find in the astral also depends on how close you are to the physical dimension. If you are very close, as in a real time projection or OOBE, very few thought forms, if any, will be found. In a real time OOBE you are not quite in the astral dimension but are existing as an astral form in the buffer zone between the astral and the physical dimensions."
Creative Visualisation Power
"The subconscious mind has VASTLY greater powers of visualisation than the conscious mind. It is like comparing a super computer to an child's calculator. In the astral dimension, during any conscious projection or lucid dream, where the conscious mind is aware, this difference can cause great confusion. The subconscious mind simmers beneath the surface during any projection. All that creative power is just bursting to get out, to create, and it will do just that any chance it gets. This difference in creative power, combined with the lifelong habit of normal frontal vision, is the cause of the "Alice In Wonderland Effect." Let me explain...."
Take these together:
The incredible creative power of the subconscious mind.
The weak creative powers of the conscious mind.
The sensitivity of astral matter to thought.
Spherical vision.
Left, right sense reversals.
And you have a recipe for total confusion.
The Alice In Wonderland Effect
"You project your astral body and look around your room. Everything appears normal, but suddenly, you notice the door is on the wrong wall? While looking around, you have seen this door with your rear vision, confusing your natural left, right, brain perspective. The brain can't assimilate this because your frontal perspective, and the position of the furniture, pictures, windows etc, are normal; but the view behind you is reversed. This tricks the subconscious mind into creating a door where it thinks it should be. When you look at this door, it appears real, even though you know it is in the wrong place. Once it has been created, it will not be uncreated, as that would be unacceptable to your conscious mind. i.e. solid doors don't normally have a habit of vanishing before your eyes."
"When you turn to where the door really should be, you will, usually, find the door there as normal. Now you may have two, or more, doors where there should only be one. If you go through the real door, you will find the rest of the house as it should be, hopefully. But, if you go through a false door, the mind knows its false and won't accept it opening to a normal part of your house that it knows can't possibly be there. So, if you open this door you will find something else. It is usually a corridor or passage, you don't have, leading off into other parts of the house you don't have either."
"From then on, if you go through this door, you are in Wonderland, where everything is possible, just not very plausible. What you are doing, in effect, is entering the astral dimension via uncontrolled creation, through this door you don't have, but now do. Once the subconscious mind starts creating like this it continues to do so at a geometric rate. It has to, for the conscious mind to assimilate the abnormal situation it is in. At some stage, in this creative maelstrom, the subconscious mind loses it completely and starts tuning in to other parts of the astral. At this point of the projection, all semblance of reality is lost and you fade into the astral dimension proper."
"There are many ways this "Alice" effect can happen during a projection, the above example is just one variation. It has been noted by many projectors that at sometime during a projection they seem to lose control of it. Objects appear, disappear, and generally everything gets a little strange. This is caused, basically, by the subconscious mind's vast creative ability being triggered. It starts making and unmaking things, and tuning into other areas of the astral and generally making everything difficult for the poor projector."
"To avoid the above problem: Concentrate on what you are doing while you are projecting and don't let your mind wander. The vision reversal problem can be minimised if you concentrate on your forward vision during projection, i.e., focus in one direction at a time. When you turn, follow the room around with your vision and don't allow it to flit from one view to another. The astral is not a good place to relax if you have serious plans."
"The vast creative power of the subconscious can, however, be utilised. It is an extremely valuable tool if you know how to use it. I will outline ways to do this, in the third part of this series, under the heading: "Virtual Reality Projection" where I will outline how to custom create your own personal astral realm."
"In the astral form you have an incredibly strong creative ability"
"Everybody, without exception, leaves their body in a low powered projection, when they go to sleep. I call this sleep projection. The astral body hovers a few inches above the physical like a balloon on a string, mimicking the sleeping position and going no further. Once the astral body has separated, it is free to create dreams. This is the natural (sleep, dream) process we are all familiar with. During this, you sink into the collective dream consciousness of the world. This `dream pool' settles into layers. According to what type of person you are, spiritual, moral advancement etc, you will tune in to a level you have affinity with. These levels are commonly called the `Planes' or sub Planes. There is nothing wrong with this analogy except that it can confuse things when you try to grasp the whole concept."
"If you become aware during sleep projection you can take some control over it as in a lucid dream, and move amongst the levels. If you do take control though, you cannot return to the real world and function as an astral form in it. You are in the topsy-turvy world of the dream pool or astral planes, where everything is possible, but not very plausible."
"When you do a `fully conscious' projection of the astral form you project into the physical world, not any astral world. This has long been misunderstood. What is usually thought of as astral projection today is better called `Lucid Dreaming' which is completely different."
"Many authors suggest we all race about the universe in AP every night. This is simply not true. You will find the world a lonely place in your astral form and will rarely see anyone else projecting there. If you do see someone, often they are just standing, confused and befuddled, caught in a `between' state of projecting and creating. This is what happens when you lose control during a conscious OBE. I call it `The Alice and Wonderland Effect' It is an effective barrier to the untrained mind."
"In the astral form you have an incredibly strong creative ability, normally used to create dreams. Once free of the fetters of the physical world, you can create an entire world, and often do. This creative ability is the problem, and the cause, of all the misunderstandings about AP."
"There is a natural barrier in AP just as there is with any other form of psychic ability. The `Alice' effect, limits projection time in the real world to a few minutes, in most cases, unless you can control your mind and energy level well. If there was not a barrier - think about it - millions of people flitting around the world every day and night, no privacy, no secrets. This would be a very unhappy world to live in."
"What happens during a fully conscious AP if you can't control your mind and energy? Well, at some point during the AP you will start to lose control over the experience and well known things will be found in wrong places. Doors, windows, furniture; extra rooms will appear etc. Your subconscious mind has started creating or you are tuning into a dream plane. Once this happens it is impossible to know what is real any more. Some of the dream pool levels, or planes, are a carbon copy of the real world. You may tune into one of them and think you are projecting in the real world - until you meet a Cheshire cat."
"One final thing, the Eastern concept of the levels; physical, astral, mental, buddhic, atmic etc are very real. They have been confused though and mixed in with the Western concept of astral projection. They are different levels of consciousness, not planes as such. When you AP you don't raise your consciousness, it is the same as when you are awake. These `higher' levels can only be reached by raising your consciousness, you can't just project into them. It is a different kind of `projection'. I have been in these higher levels but it is difficult to explain them, they really have to be experienced. They are normally reached during deep meditation."
"In order to reach these higher levels, some clairvoyant ability is required. This can be developed, or natural ability."
Good Sinestro
but you don't answer the question in this topic
and you should quote your sources when you post things you did not write yourself
I call to the moderators!
offtopic is not netetiquete
No Frère, This reply that I posted is not off topic. Smilecollecter wanted to know what you can do in the astral world. So I gave smilecollecter some info that would tell her/him what the astral world is and what you can all do in it. Don't you see Frère OBE's are NOT REAL! They are all just a Dream, just like NDE's are too. Look Frère,the subconscious mind can create any scenario it wishes. This is the subconscious mind's way of solving problems and of communicating with the conscious mind. Some of you people on this forum have said that whenever you have an OBE you can fly around the world and do anything that you want to. Well How would you fly around the world and look at things and go places when YOU haven't actually been there in the phsyical world. I mean how could you go to some place that you haven't even been to, that makes no sense at all.
Sinestro "Well How would you fly around the world and look at things and go places when YOU haven't actually been there in the phsyical world."
I must have been where I projected to because I read something there (that I had never seen before) and it was the same when I went there physically.
wait a second....
If the astral isn't real then how can people meet up and talk on the astral plane? I am sure that I have read of people doing this many times- as well as tests scientists have conducted- i.e- leaving a symbol on a top shelf, someone projects and tells the scientist what it is... how would those kinds of things work if the astral plane is simply an expanded type of dream?
Well Beavis, If OBE's are so REAL then why don't you to try and go into the astral world and try to talk to people HERE IN THE PHSICAL WORLD. Let me tell you what is going to happen. You WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TALK TO PEOPLE IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD. Why? Here is why, becasue OBE's are NOT REAL. An OBE is all just in your mind, so it is NOT REAL. Oh and Beavis you say that you have been somewhere that you have never been before and read something there and when you did you went to that same exact place in the Physical World. Well how would you go to some place that you have never been to before and know what is there? The answer is, is that you would't, because you don't know what is there, because you HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE PHYSICALLY.
It is indeed true that a person in astral form cannot communicate with a person in physical form HOWEVER if the person in physical form was to ascend into the astral form you could converse, each return to your physical bodies and have perfect recall of the conversation so this prooves that the astral world IS a real place and not some kind of mass hallucination! HAHAHAHA GET OUT OF THAT ONE!
Well zakaroth, What I have read has told me that when you are in this So called "Astral Dimension" or World, that you cannot talk to pople in the Astral World itself. "You will find the world a lonely place in your astral form and will rarely see anyone else projecting there. If you do see someone, often they are just standing, confused and befuddled, caught in a `between' state of projecting and creating." Oh and if you cannot Project in the Astral World and then make contact with someone in the phsical world, then what does that tell you? It should tell you that OBE's are NOT REAL, becasue if they were real then you could talk to people in the Physical world, so it just prooves that it is all just in your MIND.
Sinestro, how can you make such a judgement when you have not even had an OBE? You are well entitled to your opinion, but I suggest you be open to all possibilities. Just because someone in the astral cannot talk to someone on the physical does not mean that it is not real. You can talk and interact with others in the astral. Sometimes you will find the nonlucid and sometimes not. Sometimes you may be alone. I suggest you experience this before you make such harsh judgements, especially against those that have had the experience.
That's simply an example of bad logic.
sinestro...do you say that oob's are not real based on what you have read or because you have not experienced them. There are millions of people that believe angels are not real and God is not real but that does not make it truth. It is only true for those people until they leave their physical bodies at death and surprise, surprise, they have a new truth. I have experienced oobs as has many of the people on this web site. It is as real to us as being able to touch, hear, feel and see something in the physical relm. Being spirit is just as real as being physical...it's a matter of vibrational fequency. We can't see angels in the physical unless they lower their speed or vibrations but we can see them with our spiritual eyes (that part of us that is eternal)at times of meditation or prayer so intence that you just tune out the physical relm. And as the song goes (by Colin Ray) "That's my story and I'm sticken to it." Everyone has their own truth and we live our lives accordingly.
Well FallnAngel177, I can't beleive you. You are 25 and beleive in OBE's. You people just don't seem to get it. HOW CAN YOU GO SOMEWHERE THAT YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO BEFORE, I MEAN IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE AN SENSE.
Well Smilecollecter, There are no such things as Angel, or God, or OBE's, and NDE's. If you would read my research on this site that I have posted about the Bible and God then mabey you would actually learn something.
Sinestro, I do not understand what you mean. Are you talking about people going to places on Earth they have not visited in person before? Using your logic, that OBEs are not real, then it would be purely fantasy. Seeing OBEs as real then it makes perfect sense. You can go anywhere.
And Sinestro, you are the one that does not seem to get it. One of the main requirements to willfully project is to believe it is possible. Unless you accept it is possible then you may never have an OBE. What you also do not get is that a lot of people have found proof that OBEs are real. They understand what you can and cannot do, and found the proof anyway. If you want proof you must understand OBEs and be realistic in the proof you seek.
Sinestro I think I speak for everyone here when I say
HOW DARE YOU!
how dare you 1) Say quite brazenly that a belief shared commonly by the vast majority of people on here is false- that god does not exist
and 2) claim- while ignoring all evidence to the contrary- that astral projections- the main point of this forum- is in fact false and that you are suprised any person of adult age belives in it!
If you hope to use this forum to its full potential you MUST keep an open mind and all you seem to be at the moment is wrapped up in your own world where the physical is all there is and anyone who believes to the contrary is an immature child! I am sorry if I misinterprited your remarks but that is how it has come across to me
Fallnagel177--------"I do not understand what you mean. Are you talking about people going to places on Earth they have not visited in person before?" Yes fallnangel177 I don't understand, why should it be that you have to beleive in something in order for it to work?
Sinestro, you are entitled to your opinion even though the majority of us know your belief on the matter is false.
However, perhaps through further research you will come to understand the truth about OBE's.
Until then I wish you luck on your journey.
Look Hephaestus you say that what I beleive in is false. Well just to let you know that what you beleive in is not right, or wrong, and what I beleive in is not right, or wrong. It is a beleif, so know one knows if it is right or wrong, it is simply what you beleive in.
The Earth is round, or rounded and not flat - if a person believes the Earth is flat he/she is wrong even though that is what he/she believes.
If a person believes the Sun orbits te Earth, they are wrong even though that is what they believe.
The same goes for the situation we are discussing - there is undeniable proof out there that OBE's are not just peoples imaginations and yet you choose to ignore it even though the evidence isin everybody elses favour other than yours.
But like I said, good luck on your journey, because somewhere along the line you will realise your belief is false.
look sinestro you are really starting to grind on my nerves-
if you
a)read the last few years of posts as most of have done
b)experienced a full, controlled obe, like most of us have done
and
c)met entities of another plane, like most of us have done
then, maybe, then your views and opinions will be changed to that which, most of us belive, is correct, as it stands, you simply disregard any and all opinions or facts which do not conform to your ideas and I for one find it extremly offensive and irritating, so until you are prepared to accept someone elses opinion as valid, kindly shut up.[:(!]
Hephaestus---"The Earth is round, or rounded and not flat - if a person believes the Earth is flat he/she is wrong even though that is what he/she believes.
If a person believes the Sun orbits te Earth, they are wrong even though that is what they believe.
The same goes for the situation we are discussing - there is undeniable proof out there that OBE's are not just peoples imaginations and yet you choose to ignore it even though the evidence isin everybody elses favour other than yours.
But like I said, good luck on your journey, because somewhere along the line you will realise your belief is false."
No they are not wrong, a beleif is a beleif. Therefore it is what you beleive in. So it is not WRONG and it is not RIGHT, it is simply what you beleive in. Now I may not agree with your beleif on OBE's, but that does not make it wrong. It just means that I don't beleive in it, that is all.
Always with the quarreling! The one thing I will say is the use of "you people" never seems to carry much weight and sounds uninformed or ignorant. And certainly all of us are capable of being either at times.
But it seems to me the real topic hasn't been addressed for a bit.
Maybe people do discover cures in OBEs. But I agree that the general populace would not put much stock in a such a discovery.
Maybe we have not reached the point where cures to certain diseases are possible or at least understood.
And perhaps these diseases are the crosses we bear in life. It seems to me that people who have the fortune(ill fortune or not) to become personally aquainted with terminal illnesses are, on the whole, more "enlightened" than your average person.
][\/][
'No they are not wrong, a beleif is a beleif. Therefore it is what you beleive in.'- I believe that this is a perfect quote for what I am about to say.
Sinestro I believe that your belief is wrong and that my belief is right- I assume in turn that by definition you belive that my belief is wrong and your belief is right.
logically I think I have you caught- If you can find a way out of my paradox that ends in one of our viewpoints coming out victorious- be my guest.
Oh and by the way, I hope this is the last post on the matter and we can get back to the subject at hand.
quote:
Originally posted by Sinestro
No they are not wrong, a beleif is a beleif. Therefore it is what you beleive in. So it is not WRONG and it is not RIGHT, it is simply what you beleive in. Now I may not agree with your beleif on OBE's, but that does not make it wrong. It just means that I don't beleive in it, that is all.
A belief: The feeling that something is real and true.
If a person believes something to be real and true but there is no evidence to say that belief is either true or false then yes, that belief can be neither true nor false.
A person may feel something to be real and true, but if there is 'evidence' that the persons belief is false then thats what the belief must be - false.
As for OOBE's, if you research further you will see the evidence for OOBE's is extremely extensive - therefore your belief must be - false.
quote:
Why cannot those that are experienced astral travelers go to the place where records are kept and get the information on different cures for diabetes, macular degeneration, parkinsons, ms, the disease that ages children very fast, etc
Unless the person doing the astral travelling is a Medical Doctor, you see, you ain't allowed to practice medicine without a license. By the way, any MDs aboard?
Mirador
wow sinestro. i'd never thought about it like that. i've been a member on this forum for a year or so. i've helped a lot of people out. i've even upped my status to gold member. it felt really good at the time but...now that you've got me thinking, i think i'm ready to stop lying to myself and start my old walk down the old truth path.
i'd just like to say for the record that i believe that sinestro has some really good points here and you guys should stop being rude to him. he is right and all. just think about what he's saying. really put yourself in the right perspective and everything will come to light.
thank you sinestro for showing me how much of a fool i was for believing in something that i have no proof of.
Why in the world would someone have to be a doctor in order to get information from another relm in order to help people in the physical. The information could be something that would prevent a disease, or stop it's progress and reverse the damage. Where does all the inventions and discoveries that we have now come from? It has to come from somewhere even if it's inspired. Many people get ideas (for books, songs, etc.) and answers to problems when they dream and so it would not be a far stretch to believe medical help could come from the astral or spirit world (my belief is they are one and the same, just different names) And, the idea that suffering from a debilitaing disease makes us a better person is questionable. If that were true, then everyone should have that experience if that is what will cause them to become a better person and then why have doctors to minister medicine and operations if the treatments cure us and we decide not to be a better person because we are healed. My original question was not to stir up controvercy but to get real answers to real problems in peoples lives.
Alvina,
You have not stirred controversy, you've raised a very important issue, and I'm sure it's been very well received and appreciated in this forum. However, it's a fact that to apply any new medical therapy you would have first to get around the American Medical Association, the Food and Drug Administration, and other 'official' regulators in he USA and abroad, in the medical field, unless you want to get busted.
Mirador
Sinestro, I am just curious as to why you would come to these forums if it irritates you so much that all of us believe something that isn't real?? Come on, fess up you're a Defense Trial lawyer aren't you?...hehehe..or trying to be.. Or perhaps you just like a fired up debate?
Oh, well...I am not going to try and convince you one way or the other what is real or not real.
You kinda remind me of one of those people who have to have constant confict in their lives....that has gotta suck..[:P]
Nay. [;)]
mirador, you are right about having to deal with the fda and the medical profession but word of mouth works too, personal testamonies of healings. Some in the medical community and the pharmacuticals have tried and tried to stop the over the counter use of herbs and suppliments and even now there is a bill before congress to limit our access to herbs and suppliments so that we have to get perscriptions for what we now can buy over the counter and that means higher prices and even not being able to get important things. I use a lot of suppliments to replace what time and nature has reduced or taken away and hopefully, if enough people protest the bill won't pass. Anyway, my whole idea for information from the astral was to be a benefit for all.
Nay---"I am not going to try and convince you one way or the other what is real or not real."
Well Nay, I have a question to ask you. What is REAL? How do you define REAL? If REAL is what you can taste, touch, see, and smell, then REAL is simply electrical signals interperted by your brain. Unlike you Nay, some people like Fredhedd, and Chill actually think that my research is great and that they like it, and I thank them for that. Why don't you just face it Nay, I have evidence to support what I say and you have none.
Sinestro (page 1) "Oh and Beavis you say that you have been somewhere that you have never been before and read something there and when you did you went to that same exact place in the Physical World. Well how would you go to some place that you have never been to before and know what is there? The answer is, is that you would't, because you don't know what is there, because you HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE PHYSICALLY."
The thing I read and had never seen before was a random number on my computer screen. I pushed a button and had it make a new number with my eyes closed. I read it with my eyes closed laying in my bed. There is no way you can convince me I didnt see what I saw.
'What is REAL? How do you define REAL? If REAL is what you can taste, touch, see, and smell, then REAL is simply electrical signals interperted by your brain.'- sinestro
Let me just thank Sinestro before I begin- I really feel that disecting his posts has opened up a whole new facet of being a member of this forum- and the way he treats my posts as if they are not even there makes the task all the more satisfing, anyway lets begin!
First of all, this quote is taken DIRECTLY from 'the matrix', and even though that is a brilliant film, I really think you should look farther for your resources- however this is indeed true- feelings are electronic impulses interpreted by your brain- but I fail to see how this has any bearing whatsoever on the subject- let me translate what we are trying to get across to you at the moment-
The question is- Is the astral plane real? Well lets do this Sinestros' way.
The question is Are the electronic impulses interpreted by your brain the same for two or more people- thus prooving it true, as the chances of random electronic impulses happening to hit upon exactly the same nerve in 2 people who then share the same experience is VERY slim-, or is it diffrent every time? the anser true TRUE I TELL YOU extensive reasearch by many government, independent and just two projectors at home, has prooven conclusively that astral experiences can be shared.
moving on to the next part of your post
'Unlike you Nay, some people like Fredhedd, and Chill actually think that my research is great and that they like it, and I thank them for that. Why don't you just face it Nay, I have evidence to support what I say and you have none.'- sinestro
now, excuse me but I am going to say something a little vulgar for a second here- *ahem* WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU BABBLING ABOUT?????? what 'evidence' that has not already been disprooven do you have- and then you go on to say that research is in YOUR favour WHERE DO YOU LIVE, what planet are you on? Because if your on the one with the pink fluffy clouds and the bunny rabbits everything makes sense but we're on EARTH right now and all research, evidence, and the testimony of hundreds, nay, thousands of people throughout the internet supports US now just go back to your little computer, read the last 13 odd pages of posts, understand them AND THEN TRY AND DISPUTE ALL OF THAT EVIDENCE!!!!!
and dont ignore this post like the last, I want to see your reply sinestro- enlighten me with your oh- so -mighty believes
and by the way its belief not beleif
'What is REAL? How do you define REAL? If REAL is what you can taste, touch, see, and smell, then REAL is simply electrical signals interperted by your brain.'- sinestro
Nice quote from the Matrix
"HOW CAN YOU GO SOMEWHERE THAT YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO BEFORE, I MEAN IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE AN SENSE."-sinestro
That doesn't make any sense... I had never been to California before September 2001, but I am here now... I don't see why someone can not go somewhere they've never been. Let me put it like this, get in your car and just start driving. Keep going and going until you have no idea where you are. How did you get there? How could you possiblely go there since you had never been there before?
"No they are not wrong, a beleif is a beleif. Therefore it is what you beleive in. So it is not WRONG and it is not RIGHT, it is simply what you beleive in. Now I may not agree with your beleif on OBE's, but that does not make it wrong. It just means that I don't beleive in it, that is all." -Sinestro
"Don't you see Frère OBE's are NOT REAL! They are all just a Dream, just like NDE's are too." -sinestro
Contradiction there... If someone believes something is real then who are you to say that it is not? You had said that "no they are not wrong, a belief is a belief" but before that you insisted that OBE's are not real. If it is their belief that it is real, then it must be for them to insist on.
Just something I noticed, and wanted to comment on.
Tippa
Out of respect for smilecollecter and for the sake of staying on topic lets move the OBE is real or not discussion to Sinestro's topic where it is more on topic.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5756
I have never been to the records area, but I have heard that they are not very clear. What you see can be hard to understand the true meaning. So being able to go to the astral, and the records area, is not enough. It requires one to be very skilled at understanding what is seen there and I do not know many that can do that. You still bring up a good idea and might be somethnig to strive for.
quote:
Well Nay, I have a question to ask you. What is REAL? How do you define REAL? If REAL is what you can taste, touch, see, and smell, then REAL is simply electrical signals interperted by your brain. Unlike you Nay, some people like Fredhedd, and Chill actually think that my research is great and that they like it, and I thank them for that. Why don't you just face it Nay, I have evidence to support what I say and you have none.
Hehehehehe...Thanks for the chuckle Sinestro! I told you that I wasn't going to get into a big debate with you on what I believe to be real.. This post could go on forever [:P] And it is quite obvious that you are not even willing to have a open mind.
I apologize for the lawyer crack..I see now that you are a 17yr old without a job and is now conducting "Research" with the endless amount of free time you have on your hands. Good for you!! put those raging hormones to good use! May I suggest you find a girl friend though...it might calm you down a bit. [:I]
Is that really a quote from the "Matrix"?....Now that is FUNNY!!!!
Is that where your so called "evidence" comes from?? Bless your heart you sound like a good kid..just confused..you should read "Astral Dynamics" by Robert Bruce, I think you might really enjoy it..[:D]
quote:
nay, thousands of people throughout the internet supports US now just go back to your little computer, read the last 13 odd pages of posts, understand them AND THEN TRY AND DISPUTE ALL OF THAT EVIDENCE!!!!!
Zakaroth..I can't tell if you are yelling at me or not??...LOL.. I believe in OOBE's..I have had them, no need for me to read more post to know this.
Nay. [;)]
no no no no NO!
I meant nay as in no not Nay as in you- you seem to be very well informed, wheras Sinestro has taken his rightful place as Forum Clown- an object to ridicule and belittle![:D]
OHHHHHHHH....ROTFLMAO!!!!!! *wipes the tears away*
Maybe I should change my nic..lol...Have had that nicname since my niece and nephew couldn't pronounce Renee'... Not very creative I know..[:(]
Nay.[;)]
to Sinestro: i had major doubts about the realities of OBE's, b/c i had tried time and time again to do it with no success...however, when it happened to me is when i believed it...it changed my life...b4 i'd questioned life after death, but now i do not... an OBE is a powerful experience that most only believe after they experience it...i understand your doubt, but u really needn't be so harsh against other peoples' beliefs.
Sinestro!!!!
Tsk, Tsk..I see you are editing your profile as I type this out![:O]
After you are done with that, are you going to responed then??? Don't make yourself too old, because when you open your mouth..well.....it gives you away. I have nooooo idea what job you are now going to have.?? oh, maaaan this is fun!
I am going to go with the first Profile I read on you...
Nay. [;)]
No Nay my evidence doesn't come off the movie the Matrix, My evidence about God and the Bible are here:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5767
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5767&whichpage=2
Nay-"Hehehehehe...Thanks for the chuckle Sinestro! I told you that I wasn't going to get into a big debate with you on what I believe to be real.. This post could go on forever And it is quite obvious that you are not even willing to have a open mind."
Well Nay Obviously you are going to have a big debate with me, because you keep comming back talking to me. It is unfortunate that you want to dismiss my thoughts as raging hormones...the debating of different ideas and beliefs are needed for all involved to hear and think about things in a diffferent way than perhaps they previoudly have before. But since you only want to belittle me and dismiss my thoughts and questions I am left to believe that perhaps you are not secure in the things you claim to believe. If you were than you would not be hostile in listening to my thoughts, questions and opinions. Just as I will listen to yours. It is not my intent to be disrespectful to anyone I am only trying to explore and learn about different things through lively debate and research.
Tippa-"That doesn't make any sense... I had never been to California before September 2001, but I am here now... I don't see why someone can not go somewhere they've never been. Let me put it like this, get in your car and just start driving. Keep going and going until you have no idea where you are. How did you get there? How could you possiblely go there since you had never been there before?"
Well Tippa, I am refering to you going somewhere by haveing an OBE not going there physically. You missunderstand what I am say. Ok lets say for example that you live in Califorina, and have never been to Florida. So you Project yourself from Califorina to Florida by traveling through the astral world. Since you have never been to Florida Physically then how would you go there mentaly? Do you get what I am saying? I am saying how could you go somewhere that you have never been to before Physically but go there mentaly, it makes no sense, because if you haven't been to Florida Physically then how would you go there mentaly by haveing an OBE? You couldn't go to Florida mentally unless you have been there physically, because you wouldn't know what is there.
Nay I HAVEN'T CHANGED MY PROFILE. What would changing my profile prove? Also why would I change my profile? Look I can assure you that I am 17 years old and am a male who lives in Florida, and my real name is Chris.
quote:
But since you only want to belittle me and dismiss my thoughts and questions I am left to believe that perhaps you are not secure in the things you claim to believe. If you were than you would not be hostile in listening to my thoughts, questions and opinions. Just as I will listen to yours. It is not my intent to be disrespectful to anyone I am only trying to explore and learn about different things through lively debate and research.
I am secure in my beliefs, but I still have alot to learn.
Hostile?..Meeeee?...noooo..you should see the smile on my face..[:D]
Picking on you, perhaps, but I have not dismissed your rantings...I mean your points..And if I do tell you my thoughts you will only tell me they are wrong. But here goes I will try...
quote:
Ok lets say for example that you live in Califorina, and have never been to Florida. So you Project yourself from Califorina to Florida by traveling through the astral world. Since you have never been to Florida Physically then how would you go there mentaly? Do you get what I am saying? I am saying how could you go somewhere that you have never been to before Physically but go there mentaly,
I believe, or let me say "feel" that each one of us has a higher-self and spirit guide(s) whom have access to all that is out there..in the different planes, ect.. When you AP, you are now in touch with these entities. Even though me..(the one sitting here at my desk) has never been to florida MY higher self/guide has..thus, they lead the way when in the Astral.
I hope that helps.
Nay. [;)]
Well Nay I would have to agree with you about that we all have sprits. I do not however agree with you on being able travel outside of our bodies and into the astral world, but it doesn't mean that you are wrong. well Nay I have to ask you, do you beleive in life after death?
Sinestro, you are obviously a flaming liberal that looks for fights, and for that, I call you an idiot.
You have posted complete refutes to OBEs based on evidence that you have NOT submitted, and have NOT TESTED if you developed the evidence yourself. I can help you test your theories by physically killing you, but that is just the kind of thing you are looking for is it not? To make people angry? I can give you 1000 reasons why this world CANNOT EXIST, but I am not going to go into that, you are a waste of my time.
You go on a witch hunt to find a purpose for stupidity instead of trying to realise you yourself are wrong before you try and fix it.
I think you have some good arguments, but at the same time you have so many stupid and unbased ones that everyone here should ignore you for your undefined flaming. Chosen stupidity, as presented by you, is the one thing that corrupts this world worse that it already is. I make people ask themselves questions and make them question themselves, and they do not like me for it. YOU on the other hand project forward ideas and call everyone around you ignorant liars, wether you realise this or not.
I do not beleive in a god, am I right? No. Am I wrong? No.
IF WE ARE BOTH NOT RIGHT OR WRONG THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE SPOUTING GARBAGE THAT IS NOT CORRECT OR EVEN SUPPORTED!? You are floating in midair with stupidity above and ignorence below you. One of these days these two idiot traits you have are going to
A.Get you killed or severely screwed
or
B.Get someone else killed or severely screwed.
I leave you with this, QUESTION YOURSELF AND YOUR OWN HYPOCRISY BEFORE YOU EVEN DARE TO POST ANYTHING ANYWHERE EVER AGAIN. HUMANS MAKE MISTAKES, BUT YOU SIR, HAVE STUPIDITY AS YOUR CRUCH. Am I the only person here willing to kick that cruch from under you to prove you really can walk?
quote:
well Nay I have to ask you, do you beleive in life after death?
That is a big YES! And reincarnation. Do you?...I can't help but feel that you are setting me up for a BIG discussion on this one..lol.[:D]
Nay. [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by Sinestro
Well Tippa, I am refering to you going somewhere by haveing an OBE not going there physically. You missunderstand what I am say. Ok lets say for example that you live in Califorina, and have never been to Florida. So you Project yourself from Califorina to Florida by traveling through the astral world. Since you have never been to Florida Physically then how would you go there mentaly? Do you get what I am saying? I am saying how could you go somewhere that you have never been to before Physically but go there mentaly, it makes no sense, because if you haven't been to Florida Physically then how would you go there mentaly by haveing an OBE? You couldn't go to Florida mentally unless you have been there physically, because you wouldn't know what is there.
I havernt read all this thread but you just supported the opposite view you were taking. The very fact you are able to project to florida is proof it isnt all in your mind and you're atually travelling. Otherwise it would be all in your mind because it would be based on a memory. The other side is arguing you're really travelling.. therefore its possible.
You're taking your assumption and trying to argue based on it.. in this case you're taking as a given you are not really travelling.. it is only in your mind. Then trying to use the evidence to suport it ie: since you are only mentally travelling it is impossible it is real because you have no memory of having been there. Its circular logic.. youre making two assumptions in order to try to prove your theory. But those assumptions are based on your theory.
Your logic is really bad, but part of that is due to your age. You will one day improve on making logical conclusions instead of really obviously faulty ones and laugh someday. We've all gone through that.. I remember some of the arguments I made at your age and I cringe.
Yes I do beleive in Life after Death. I don't understand what you mean by reincarnation? Do you mean that we come back as an animal or as something else?
Psi, a little introspection wouldnt hurt. You might be angry because you're looking in a mirror.
what does being liberal have to do with anything on this thread? weird
Angry? Yes. Some people have racism,sexism, anti-semitism, but I have my prejudice against people who choose to be stupid. Wrong or right? According to Sinestro there is no right or wrong, so you have no bounds to judge me on this. HONESTLY? I think I should be lighter towards the ignorant.
Mirrior image? Maybe, in a karmatic sense, but hardly.
Liberal was my choice of word for someone that screws things up worse than they already are, rather than trying to fix them, as most liberals do.
Im sorry, but coming onto a board and preaching unbased arguments against a topic that the said board is based on shows how silly his arguments are. Im here defending what I beleive in out of boredom, so this is hardly comparable to what Sinestro is doing himself.
quote:
Yes I do beleive in Life after Death. I don't understand what you mean by reincarnation? Do you mean that we come back as an animal or as something else?
I am a little surprised that you do not know what reincarnation is, but eh..who am I to say where you knowledge begins and ends.. Anyhoo..you're right when you say "come back" I myself don't know about the animal thing, cause I've yet to be privy to that info. I have had several lifes that I have recalled while OOB. I could have sworn that I posted about some of them here, somewhere..lol..but I can't find them. I will tell you about one that I had. I also spoke with my guide and asked about this one in paticular and was told "yes" it was a past-life.
I think I was Roman...I can't be sure, I was standing in front of a pretty large group of men, there was a man to my right whom I realized was MY superior.... I had on some kind of leather get-up(sorry no better term) It was strange cause I was feeling all the emotions.,
Like I knew I needed to be quiet and all, and I was excited on the inside, do to the fact we were going to get paid.
I am facing my superior but not really looking at him, I feel him put something in my left hand (once again I feel I shouldn't look at it while he is present)
He leaves.... I open my hand and look at this small pouch type thingy w/ a string. I open it and pour the contents out into my left hand, there are some weird looking coins (they weren't perfect circles like today and they were dull color)
there was also a little silver container....really hard to explain, without drawing it...it was round with a lid that unscrewed, quite small 2" I unscrewed the lid and it sounded like grit was in the grooves, but when I got it opened it was full of salt....yep salt.. I was like..."what the...??" There is more to this dream but not important in making my point.
Well, I told my husband about it, and...lol....he was really surprised cause apparently at one time or another, soldiers were paid in salt!!! Hence the saying "Worth his salt"
I did research later (not that I didn't believe my hubby..but, ya' know, had to find out for myself)
It was true, they even had some pictures of coins and I can't say for sure, but they had alot of resemblances.
I apologize to anyone who feels like I am a broken record..lol..talking about the same thing over and over..
I believe/feel that we reincarnate to recognize death not as an ending but as simply another transition in the ongoing, eternal journey of our spirits.. Making wrongs right, learning...ect..
ok..I have talked enough..[:I]
Nay. [;)]
Sinestro, you're rude. Try to express your opinions in a nicer way. Also, since you seem to be annoyed that most of us think that the Astral is real, why are you here? To pick a fight? To convert us to your beliefs? Also, I too am surprised that you have no idea what reincarnation means. It's basically being reborn into many lives (usually as a human) to learn different lessons.
Smilecollecter, I will not, when I die, or whatever, meet your God or your horrible little angels (read the bible, they're not nice at all). Why? Because I don't believe in your God and your angels. I have my own Gods and my own ideas, and they are true to me. Don't try to force your religous beliefs on me. That only shows me that you don't believe your religion is valid enough for you personally. Now, go on and pray that I go to a little place called hell. (Fact: Goddess Hel existed before Christianity. Why can't your religion be original?) Sorry about that, just had to get that out of my system! Try to accept that not everybody believes what you do, and try not to force your beliefs on others.[}:)]
Done ranting![;)]
-Ater
yet again I see you have chosen to ignore me sinestro- kindly make as well informed response to mine as you have to others- I would be oh so disappointed to be denied your enviable wisdom [:D]
ranboi...I realize other people have different beliefs than I do and that is ok. My understanding and some of my beliefs have change a lot in the last 3 years because I was open to different truths. My faith is not a religion as much as it is a personal relationship with my Creator who gives me great peace and great joy and a love that is forever. It not my intent to crame religion down other people but to share a love that has changed my life for the better for the last 42 years. I never thought when I asked a simple question concerning healing information from the astral that there would be so much anger and disrespect expressed to one another. How very sad.
ha. you guys are funny.
Smilecollecter, I'm sorry for sounding rude, but I can't control it! Anyhow, bible-thumpers think they are saving people and sharing their "wonderful" religion, but they are still annoying. I think that you should be happy with your own religion and leave other people alone to find their own way, or no way for that matter.
Again, I'm sorry for sounding rude.
-Ater
Wow that was a lot of reading. Sinisto I tried to read all you have written and some of it was very insight full.(some I have questions about) It is in its nature very analytical and very interesting. You do seem to think a lot for a 17year kid but hey thats fine with me and why not. I would like to ask you a few questions. As a matter of fact I also have some questions about OBE and reincarnation, and pardon me guys ....it seems that these 2 subjects are like the "holy Grail" around here. It does not seem logical to me that we reincarnate. I wrote a post about that. I do have OBEs and they are very powerful experiences as I am sure you realise. What exactly happens I am not sure but it is not anything I have experienced in this lifes "reality" as you put it.
I did a experiment with my wife the other night. She is very critical of my OBEs and I am glad. She is open but "not impressed" as she has not experienced them herself. Anyway I told her to watch out for one week . I left for europe and she was in the US on a particular day I tried to project to her and wondered if she would see anything. Suprise after we met she told me that she had seen me and gotten all wierded out. I had hovered over her bed at night as a grey misty sort of thing but recognizable. I disappeared shortly. After comparing times and dates it matched up. How does that fit in for you. ?? I was pretty flipped out myself as I never did anything like that before but dont know what to think about it. Anyway I am very exieted about your posts and that you seem to question things I believe that is healthy. By the way try to be nice people listen more to you when you are :-).
I look forward to your reply
Regards Mustardseed
Mustardseed,
I did not write the article, I found it through my research. The
article was written by Jim Walker. You can visit his website at
http://www.nobeliefs.com He has some very interesting things on his site.
Well I guess you must be busy, its been a while since the post . It does seem your posts are a lot of unsupported claims , as well as stuf like "I have proof" . It sounds pretty silly and generally your posts are a bit immature but thats ok. Instead of all the stuf you tell us you do not believe why dont you tell us what you DO believe. That would be good reading. Some people argue by attacking others opinion instead of stating their own cases. If you have the full truth at your fingertips lets hear it. It should be able to stand on its own.
OBE is the ability to represent ourselfs diferently. WE actualy see our beliefs projected in front of us, not rality. Thus, Obe are as unreal as phisical experience, but at the same time very real because we experience it as real. Just imagine this:
The basic of ordinary perception is the art of projection. We percieve cause we project. We are OBEing all the time. We are the spirits traveling out of a unic universal body. I say we are all right, OBE is and ilusion and it is not at same time. Oh, and I think we shouldnt keep wondering on how this could be posibble, its surely beyond reasoning. WE are all living our process at our own rythm, everytbody is right cause thats what our experience tell to us.
We take brain as the basis to judge reality, but have we ever wonder if our hole phisical body is just a mental thought form? The beuty of creation is that while I project you, and you project me to have experiences of duality, we are in other reality the same being, just representing itself as a tree, a sun, as Jhon or Peter. WE are God playing with himself, experiencing himself in every particular location of the universe as and I, as infinit units we call life.
"We are dreaming" is something all the spiritual masters have told us, a dream that pass so fast that it would be better to live it than to ask if it is real or not. I truly dont know what is real or not, but someday experience will lead me to the truth, not philosophical discussions.
----------------------------------------------------------
The topic of this post was the answer about healing or medicine information for mortal and non mortal deseases in te astral. I thing we will get more reveletaions from the spirit about healing if we as humans were more conected to it. We have what we deserve, not meaning to be cruel. Why didnt Jesuscrist stayed on earth forever so we would all be happy learning and evolutiong more faster?, I simply dont know. Justice is not always what benefits us. Altouh I think we can learn to heal ourselfs sometimes, is about good energy manipulation, maybe. hi.
Ensoñador
My theory (fully explored in the "nature of the astral plane" forum) is that the astral plane is a simply a state of consciousness where you have instant access to your subconscious. You only remember a thousandth of what happens every day. What would it be like to remember everything at once? it would be an OBE. Of course, your subconscious also makes things up. [:)]
I thought about this yesterday and thought I would put it to this group. Why cannot those that are experienced astral travelers go to the place where records are kept and get the information on different cures for diabetes, macular degeneration, parkinsons, ms, the disease that ages children very fast, etc.? Our subconscious minds are suppose to be very powerful and full of wisdom and I would think that with enough people seeking these answers (I know there are doctors and scientist looking for cures) out of body travelers should have access to more information than the natural mind. I am not experienced in conscious oob's or I would try myself. I'm still trying to get out more than 1 or 2 times. Perhaps I'm asking a simple question for a complex answer.