Method for staying conscious during deep NREM sleep

[Snow Pellets]

What is your preferred method of remaining self-aware during deep delta/theta sleep either at the beginning of the night (as posted in another post) or after waking up in the morning?

I have tried every method I can think of and it seems like breath awareness is passive enough to allow you to enter deep sleep/trance states but retain your self-awareness so that you can acheive the vibrational state. 

Only problem is.. it seems like when I try it, it is too much of an active thought process and I just remain awake indefinately until I finally give up and let myself fall asleep.

Is there anything I can try to make breath awareness more passive? 

One thing I have noticed though when I was successful at entering deep sleep but retaining my self-awareness, is that you will reach a point during the process where your breathing becomes very passive and rythmic and you hang onto the awareness of it precariously by a thread.. and it is very difficult to think of anything else.  It almost feels like a "lull" where you feel the threat of simply losing awareness but you cling onto your perception of your rhythmic breathing process.  This continues for a time, until like BAM... all of a sudden you become aware again but you have entered a state of expanded awareness with full body paralysis in which case you no longer need to focus on your breathing, but simply will the vibrational state to come and it does.  This is accompanied by buzzing noises and sometimes the fear of impending doom which I guess is a conditioned reflex from fear of the unknown.  Separation then becomes easy after that.

Based on that explanation.. is the "lull" probably the deep theta/delta states?

[Snow Pellets]

On a side note.. maybe it is even possible to retrain the mind to not fall asleep at all but simply train it to think something along the lines of "when I hit the bed, I don't sleep but automatically start to recognize how the breathing process changes throughout sleep, in effect retaining self-awareness and bringing about the vibrational state / separation process."

[radman32]

Yeah, pretty much man. That's what I found out too. I've recently not had too many obe warm-ups, but that's what I've figured on recently. I think that is also the best method too, because it trains the mind to focus on it's most natural function, breathing. How has your obe journey come along lately?

[Tiny]

Dear Snow Pellets,

I haven't had a lot of success with it and I quite frankly don't see why one would go so deep, it is not necessary to achieve OBEs.

I used to always think that extra-slow brainwaves are required in order to lose body sensations and consequently being able to leave the body, it turns out that this is not true at all. In fact I think OBEs are easily possible in Alpha. What brings success is a really tight focus placed outside the body. Simply imagine a small cube 1 or 2 feet above or in front of you, depending on your posture. Let nothing exist in your mind but this cube. This will quickly cause dissociation from the physical body and that creates the state necessary for conscious exit. The brainwaves will adjust as necessary for the body.
The vibrational state too is just a result of something so it's not what we're looking for either.
If you focus real hard you create that narrow tunnel through which you can exit your body.


peace

[Snow Pellets]

You mean just picture a three-dimensional cube (made of glass or whatever appeases your mind) floating in the blackness in front of you?

Or do you mean imagine yourself being inside a cube?

Monroe's early technique describes a method of imagining a reference point (dot perhaps?) three spatial feet from your perceived physical location, then moving it to six feet.. but I don't know if your technique is similar to this.

[Tiny]

You mean just picture a three-dimensional cube (made of glass or whatever appeases your mind) floating in the blackness in front of you?

Yes that is what I mean. And there's no need for you to imagine going towards it or being sucked into it or anything, the overcomplication of techniques makes the real difficulty, if you ask me. Simply picture the cube being there and focus at manifesting it as hard as you can. Remember whatever happens simply let it happen, don't force anything, the projection exit is a mechanical process. Picturing it in the space in front of you will align your frequency with that of the Real-time-zone and consequently you'll be sucked out of your body into the RTZ environment. Trouble focusing I believe is caused by a too active body-mind, persistent focus will quiet the mind.
I like using the cube because it is the single most easily imaginable solid. Last time I pictured a cooking pot for some reason lol. As soon as I got out of my body the pot disappeared and I was free in the RTZ.


peace

[Snow Pellets]

I tried this last night and it actually worked.  It is acutally a two-step process.

I don't think it specifically has to be a cube.. but monroe pointed out in his book that the easiest way to enter the hypnagogic state bordering sleep is to hold your mental attention on something (in this case a cube or square), since it somehow as you said... aligns the brainwave patterns into deep alpha and is more passive than just simply breath awareness by itself.

What happened though was.. I laid down, relaxed my body, and then just like in daydreaming I basically pictured the cube and held my mental thought process on just the cube being in the center of my field of vision.  Just a simple visualization exercise, and the cube kept going from 3d to a simple 2d square and moving slightly.  But I tried to hold my mental attention on just that one thought.  After doing it for about 15 minutes, all of a sudden I felt like other thoughts intruded and I could not think to hold the cube in my thoughts anymore.  It was as if I could not even think at all.. my brainwaves were slowing down so fast. 

It was at this point that I felt like since I was interrupted from my mental thought of the cube with other hypnagogic images, I focused what little thread of self-awareness I had on my breathing.  Paralysis ensued almost immediately, and the vibrational state started immediately after, though my mind was still awake and in fact "woke" back up when the vibrations started.  I then tried to manipulate the vibrations just as Monroe talked about.. but they disappeared and I woke back up again.

Still some progress though.. I think it is a two-step process..

1st hold your mental attention on something such as the cube for it to be passive enough to change your brainwave patterns in the most efficient way possible.

2nd refocus your awareness on your breathing otherwise if you try to think, you'll just get lost in your own hypnagogic images and lose awareness entirely.

So I definately think that to achieve this state.. it is a combination of techniques rather than just one by itself.

[Tiny]

Daer Snow Pellets,

congratulations for your success.

However I still believe that you are overcomplicating this by far more than necessary. Focus, focus, focus  . If mental chatter breaks in, it means that one is not focused enough.


If there is a sleep deficit by the way, where the energy storages are depleted, it becomes very hard to focus if not impossible. I've stupidly inflicted it upon myself by staying up about 6 hours longer than I should've. Now my energy centers are depleted and when I lay down it's as if I am mentally incapable.

Don't forget to do some initial energy work, especially if you can get it to flow well in your facial areas, what you'll get is a lot more relaxation, essentially the same effect as massage.



peace

[Snow Pellets]

So it doesn't even have to be a cube.. it can be anything that soothes the mind such as (in my instance) a triangle?