For those that believe in the astral..

[Eol007]

NICE One!!! it been yonks since I experieced anything closish.

Take care,

S []

[Blissful]

Huh.. tell me you don't believe now (bet you can't after that experience).

Congrats. You had a beautiful trip in the astral world!  Keep believing because what you experienced was ASTRAL 100%.

Question: Did you notice your body vibrating when you woke up (or at least felt the vibrations subsiding).  I love that feeling.  It's buzzy and warm!

Blissful

[holy reality]

i don't think my body was vibrating after it was over...

So that is what you'd call the astral.... then...

What about if I'm swirilng around in some sort of dark green void with all these eyes all over, hearing music I'm familiar with? I've done that a lot and it just seems like hypnagogic hallucinations, except I'm inside them.

I'm not sure how that would be any different than this, though this felt different due to the tunnel, but.....

You guys define the astral by these kinds of experiences then? To me most of these colorful voids don't seem real, this one sort of did yeah, but I don't know......

I wanted to talk to him!

So if there are different parts of the astral where was this? What was it? The whole astral/rtz etc things kind of confuse me.. (not that i've been to the rtz, I'm not sure it exists, but I need to experiment a lot more... I want it to exist)

All I know was it was cool but I could see how my mind made it up in a way, but it felt kind of real. I was wondering if it's a normal experience and stuff....

If I can go back more I can find out for myself I guess, but yeah anyway, I'm still pretty confused on this whole subject.

[Zarklon]

well , as far as I know , that was some kind of experience in the astral planes.. or at least , thats what I would have considered it.. Depending on whether or not you were actually experiencing hypnagogic imagery or you were truly "OUT" would let me know for sure what the eperience was..

I have experienced so many things with OBEs that its starting to confuse me now... my latest experience was wierd.. I knew I was in paralysis after listening to my classroom chat and the moment I realized it , I started to move just to test it and found out that it was particularly harder to get "out" that time than normal so I started doing my alternate exit techniques while im paralysis which consisted of a few visualization techniques , a roll out technique , and a few other thing I made up due to some past experiences and successes.<--- This whole sentence is probably what many of you posting here need to try... hell , make stuff up to get further if you have to.

Anyway , I didnt manage to make it 100 out that time but I was in lingo.. I was able to visualize things perfectly yet wasnt aware of it at the time.. I mean.. when I tried to visualize the class with my eyes closed,  the vision was not centered in my sight .. it looked like it was coming from the corner of my eyes and coming into focus only every few seconds but for a short time... I was still aware of my classroom sounds and of being awake yet I was experiencing this awkward vision as crisp as I would have if my eyes were open.  I then tried to picture myself in that envisioned classroom (which was empty in my vision but had 8 people in it for real)... When I did that , I somehow managed to get first person view from a different part of the classroom yet this was when I lost some awareness.. I forgot I was in paralysis for a sec and started to associate with some of the people who had suddenly popped up there (in similar positions to where they were for real)... I dont remember what I said to everyone but I remember that even though I had 1st person vision , I was still not fully there and even less aware and about to slip into a dream so I switched back to my paralysed physical body's perception and tried to re-exit with more awareness or something... I think I drifted off to sleep finally yet opened my eyes calmly as soon as someone went to playing a trick on me in class from "falling asleep".  It seems like while sleeping , I can still be aware of things around me a whole lot more if I fell asleep while trying to go OBE.

My point is that , things happen strangely while OBE.. somewhere in that projection I remember giving up on leaving my body and just messing with the paralysis state... I was visualizing my self walking up the sides of the walls of my room and I got all the feelings you would get if you actually did it im sure.. even when I went upside down and walked on the ceiling. (the whole stomache feeling).  

Maybe next time you have an experience where you know you are dreaming , start rationalizing a bit.. think stuff like.. "Hmm.. a tunnel....riiiiight...." and begin doing what you want to do because at that point you should know that you dont really want to be in a purple tunnel seeing purple aura people.. hell , wouldnt you rather be flying at breakneck astral speeds through your hometown or meeting with your spiritual guides or something more productive?  

Right now I can only tell how aware I am during my OBEs only AFTER they happen... rarely am I able to tell how aware I am during one.. I managed to start picking out all the reality fluctuations in one OBE one day.  I reminded myself while OBE that I've experienced reality fluctuations before (doors in diff spots , diff placement of furniture etc..) and I spent a little while picking some out in my school gym.. what I failed to realize was that there were a few noticable ones that I didnt catch until after I came back in and I've been dissapointed with myself ever since.  I wonder if some of the more experienced projectors like robert bruce still experience reality fluctuations in the rtz or even if they have lessened with experience.  

One thing I'm working on proving is that re-exiting the body might actually be helping with reality fluctuations and it seems that a faster , has sometimes left me with a good representation of my surroundings while OBE than some of my harder more drawn out paralysis exits... by that I mean.. the ones where I seem to stretch and stretch what seems like an invisible shield of plastic wrap until I dont feel like I'm attached to anything anymore.

If you are lucky enough to get out often, I suggest that you study your routine, state of mind/body, environment, stress levels , comfort levels , eating habits , a lot of things... prior to , during , and after a successful or unsuccessful OBE attemp.

Its hard to monitor whats going on with my mind during successful attempt because it seems like I am real fixed on leaving and then I get caught up thinking about something else which almost takes me to a dream then i suddenly snap out of it and moments later I just know and feel paralysis .. only then does it get interesting for me.  That is something I'm working on .. the missing memory part of my OBEs sitting up..  I think because I'm sitting up , I am able to "snap back awake" and when I'm in bed,  thats the point where I just fall asleep.  

Sorry if I'm rambling .. I really should write a freakin book on my studies.. hell i dont even keep them documented *smacks head*.*lazy alert lazy alert*

Good luck on your experiences and I hope you manage to figure out how to take some control of them if thats what your problem is.  Even if it is .. taking control of your experience can be quite a task also , at least for me =/  but thats another rambling

[holy reality]

quote:My point is that , things happen strangely while OBE.. somewhere in that projection I remember giving up on leaving my body and just messing with the paralysis state... I was visualizing my self walking up the sides of the walls of my room and I got all the feelings you would get if you actually did it im sure.. even when I went upside down and walked on the ceiling. (the whole stomache feeling).

Sounds like you were interacting with hypnagogic stuff... I had that happen with roller coasters once, I made my own up while I was simultaneously feeling them but sitll aware of my body.

It's kind of like remote viewing I guess.. it's way better than lucid dreaming in dreams it's hard to get roller coasters to feel real, for some reason.

I have a whole elaborate theory on that though, what with the memory part of your brain being inactive during REM, while being very active during NREM (which is when I think hypnagogics happen)

I don't believe in spirit guides, I've asked for them several times and they are always clearly fake... they could be there.

I don't believe in an RTZ, though I don't disbelieve in it... I'd love to be able to fly around MY REAL TOWN, but my town isn't real, it doesn't matter if I went through the hassle of OBEing or just had an LD, my TOWN IS NOT REAL.... I mean just the other day I could see the city from my high school and flew to it, it must have only been like 300 feet away. The flying experience was unusually real and fun though, but yeah anyway.... what breakneck astral speeds? I can't get myself going more than what feels like about 20 mph.

What I've found is though LD/OBE seem largely the same, there seem to be a few minor differences.

For example if I exit with HEAVY VIBRATIONS, I seem more prone to involutnarily moving places.... and I found last night that this is related to what I think, I thought of the window and somehow moved toward it, was pulled toward it, and when I tried to move my "body" it felt deformed and I was very disoriented......

Some will say it's due to the energy body not being properly developed, I don't know. Sometimes I also feel like I'm looking through two pairs of eyes at once and they are constantly fighting each other for control. This happens the most when I'm floating around my room and suddenly become aware.

What I can attest to is that MY BODY HAS NEVER EVER BEEN IN MY ROOM, only at times my mind tries to trick me, but I'm wearing other clothes.

and that MY ROOM HAS NEVER LOOKED 100% RIGHT except for a few rare times where I was too disoriented to explore and was only out a second.

What I believe, is that different stages of sleep or trance produce different results. I am open to spirits and paranormal stuff, though skeptical at this time (i believe in shared dreams though, I think)

For example
hypnagogics + heavy vibrations = astral projection (or "phasing")

heavy vibrations + paralysis = the sort of "Robert Bruce" OBE with weird bodily abnormalities and visional problems. Perhaps this leads to real time projections.... i have little experience with this state but I found hypnagogics to be IMPOSSIBLE (almost) to induce last night, but then again I was scared and sort of unfocused, I tried to ride a roller coaster to take me into a lucid dream, I didn't much want to OBE, but I couldn't get it to stay very solid at all, then I floated out just by loosely thinking of floating out.

light vibrations + paralysis = anything...  you are light enough to have hypnagogics if you want them and use them to enter a dream, or you can try and deepen the vibrations for something more "serious" or you can just get up and be in an LD like environment.

So here is how I'd put them in order from lightest to deepest.

light vibrations + paralysis, this happens easiest in the early morning and often times the paralysis is totally bypassed and you pop right back into your dream... this seems sleep exclusive and seems like you couldn't do it during the day.

unaware hypnagogics - these can lead to mini conscious dreams which are hard to stay in, but if you persist you end up in a long normal dream but you are prone to lucidity, or you can sometimes pop into HEAVY paralysis, or hypangogic paralysis... this is a napping state or a trying to fall asleep state, it's what i get when i meditate and is very hard to hold onto.

aware hypnagogics - can be while awake and not paralyzed, but they quickly take you into paralysis upon focusing... thse usually happen after you've been sleeping.

aware hypnagogics + heavy vibrations, tend to happen unexpectedly when you suddenly regain consciousness having been "asleep" for a while, but not too long, it seems to be before REM, could be deep theta.

heavy/normal vibrations, no hypnagogics - seems to be about as deep as you can take it,and seems to happen easiest on accident, it seems to be best for trying to do "real time" stuff... waking up from it tends to make you feel rested, rather than still groggy.

now the aware hypnagogics + heavy vibrations are by far the HEAVIEST vibrations I've ever felt, whether that is a coincidence or not I don't know.... but my heart chakra did feel to be open.

I dont' remember much of last nights OBE so I can't recall how heavy the vibrations were... I think my heart chakra may have been a bit active.

[dkj400]

quote:MY ROOM HAS NEVER LOOKED 100% RIGHT

Perfectly normal. It's known as reality fluctuations, you'll probably get that occasionally if your not experienced in AP. That and you have 360 degree vision in the Astral, so if an object is behind you your brain might get confused and thus you'll see it somewhere in front of you.

[Zarklon]

holy reality , there are a bunch of experiences that we seem to have that relate a LOT. I read your takes on paralysis/vibrations and the outcomes of each.  I agree with most of them and the ones I dont agree on were still very very similar to what I've experiences given that combo.  

My room has never been 100% right but maybe* one time and that was when I walked through a wall and proved to my dad that he was laying at the foot of his bed in an awkward way and I had no way of seeing that nor was I in his room at all that night physically.  

I cant remember if that exit was from playing with imagery and controlling it to turn into a mental picture of a cannon shooting nintendo character out into the sky and flipping them around or if I just got astral vision and easily floated out.. I wish I could remember! Its been so long but I know my room was more realistic looking than ever and when I told my dad how I had seen him at the foot of his bed like that .. he read 2 chapters of an OBE book I got heh.  I believe we can walk the physical plane but it requires a bit more focus and the ability to control reality fluctuations and become more aware while out in order to sustain such a realistic OBE.  The longer I'm out , the more reality fluctuations happen and the more I feel like I'm going to wake up unless I stop and stare at something while reminding myself that I'M OUT!

Good post holy reality , we should talk some time

[holy reality]

Something remarkable happened this morning, I've long been skeptical of an astral plane, and have long been skeptical of spirit guides and all that stuff.

I've never really been able to confirm projecting into the physical, and any "astral" experiences I have had seem to be borderline mental fabrications... but this was somewhat different.

It was directly related to hypnagogia and my heart chakra... lately my chakras seem to be fairly open aside from my navel area and my base chakra.... and well.... anyway..

I am intending to WILD, and I drift in and out of scenes, in one I'm conscious enough to try to say in but can't... eventually I'm in a dream, in the dream this guy says (who is a drill sergeant) "you can go have fun now, just don't nap" and then I'm like "dreaming isn't napping is it?" and I "wake up" and I'm this tunnel...

There is harp music going up and down scales over and over, and I'm paralyzed, my heart chakra is going insane... as I go through the tunnel, which is a nice pale purple in nature, there are paintings everywhere, all along the walls, and I see one of them, and I think "these are dreams... these are MY DREAMS...." and.... I just keep going deeper into the tunnel.

Eventually I notice there are people outside the tunnel, purple auraed people.... and eventually I notice my left eye is seeing the tunnel and my right eye is seeing other stuff.... I move my hands in the right eye, they are purple, with orange in the middle where the bones would be.....

I think how cool this is... I never see auras when I LD, or "OBE" when I do I have to trick myself into seeing them and they feel fake, this didn't quite feel fake.....

I then saw this beautiful hypnagogic spiral bloom, and I touched it... I was then amongst the presences that were wandering around.... one came toward me, I tried to communicate with it, to say  "hey, who are you?" but I couldn't hear his answer... I heard many voices, but they were all fragmented and muffled....

He grew closer to me and he touched my arm, as if to help pull me all the way out into this void, to get rid of my split body sensations... I wanted him to, but I was a bit unsure of who or what he was, and could not get an answer.

I unfortunately woke up and he faded away, but as he did I clearly saw his face, he was smiling and had side burns, short hair..... he looked happy and loving, like he was glad to see me.

This whole experience somehow seemed familiar to me, especially him, like I have another memory of being in a blue room with him, but I'm not sure.


Would this qualify as entering or phasing into the astral? I've had some experiences where I'm clearly inside hypnagogia, and trippy stuff is happening, even sometimes "things" are there, but they all seemed just in a way, kind of fake to me... this somehow felt... different.

I'm still not sure what to think, especially of the tunnel I was in, while I was half asleep I had a great name for it, it was some sort of central dream junction or something, I don't know.

This hasn't really made me "believe" in anything but it has made me very curious, I did not expect to wind up here, not at all, I was taken by surprise, though when I initiate separation from my body I often desire/expect to see a sort of "energy body" that I have, I never do... this time was different, and I'm not sure why.

I could see how daily thoughts on the subject could have influenced it, even an activity I partook in that day, but I don't know, it was just so random, like bam I'm in a hypnagogic tunnel, I'm falling, constantly feeling falling, while going through it, I'm right between awake and asleep, my heart chakra is painfully open.

I don't know what to make of it... but I'd like to go there again.

What do you all think?