Hi Tisha,
I have found that I have greatly improved my ability to relax deeply and remain aware by increasingly over the years,
a) addings lots of fresh vegetables and fruits to by diet.. evenutally transitioning to 100% raw/lliving foods
b) not drinking with my meals (dillutes stomach juices and makes digestion harder)
c) not eating after 5-6pm
d) water only fasting on a regular basis (gets much easier with time.. ) - currently each week for 36 hours.. and occasionally for 10 days
e) drinking plenty of fluids through out the day (that one in itself made a huge difference.
For iron juicing of raw beets and dark leafy gfreen vegetables does wonders. We used that during my wifes pregnancy every day and she had none of the unpleasant pregnancy symptoms that she had during her 1st pregnancy.
I think fasting improves our cell function.. cleans out any debris.. and thus allows for everything to function better thereby allowing us to relax deeper.. stay aware etc. At least in my experience.
I have also found that after the 3-4th day of fasting on water.. the fasting gets alot easier.. and I start having a much easier time with expanded states of conciousness.
I do have to add that a huge leap for me happneed also a few years ago when i just cut out all processed foods and preceeded any animal protein I ate with lots of fresh organic salad. As well as stopping to mix protein and starches - that are tremendously difficult to digest together.. since one requires alkaline and the other acid stomach juices to digest properly. Thus the food stays alot longer in your digestive system and tends to rot and your intestines start absorbing toxins from that rather then nutrients:) Being that its the basis for almost any diet (meat and potatoes) - it was a realy difficult transition for me. But made a huge difference.
Love & Light,
Theodore
Looking back through my dream journal (I take all kinds of notes about 'other' things) I have noticed this:
1. Breakfast is important. I usually do Oatmeal and some fruit.
2. I usually have a bigger lunch than dinner. Arouund local noon.
3. The lighter the dinner, the better the energy/AP.
4. No munchies late night in bed, it kills the energy flow.
I've switched to more fish/chicken, less beef/pork. Fresh fruit/veggies, and as little as possible bleached white bread. It's really made a difference. I've also lost 25 pounds in 3+ months (I needed to lose it anyway). I have a LOT, and I mean 5x-10x more energy eating this way than I did on your classic American Meat/Potatoes diet, skipping breakfast, and the fast food lunch.
I've found that 8-12 hours of fasting is more than enough for heavy energy work. I've done days worth before, but not since my re-awakening. I suppose I will when I need to do something really big?
Now I'm not 100% on my diet. I mean try eating "correctly" in America, it's very difficult, but I do try.
I do skip breakfast before devotional services, and I look forward to a hearty meal afterwards.
[EDIT]
Forgot the Big one!!! Stop finishing everything on your plate!!! Nasty habit our parents forced on us, stop it. When your done, your done. Stop feeling compelled to eat something you don't want just because you paid for it [:P]
Nice Topic Tisha. I'll be only too please to chip in with my experiences soon. I'm a bit pushed for time at the moment. But I'll make a few notes tonight and post something tomorrow afternoon hopefully.
Yours,
Frank
Water Fasting?
is that good?
I read in many places that we need to drink lots of water/fluids during the day and we will have plenty of benefits just for doing that, so... whats the idea about water fasting (this means "not drinking water" isnt it?)?
I dont drink water about 30 minutes ago and i am thirsty![:P]
quote:
Originally posted by Kazbadan
Water Fasting?
is that good?
I read in many places that we need to drink lots of water/fluids during the day and we will have plenty of benefits just for doing that, so... whats the idea about water fasting (this means "not drinking water" isnt it?)?
I dont drink water about 30 minutes ago and i am thirsty![:P]
Water fasting means drinking ONLY water:) Usually distilled water - a minimum of 4-6 liters per day. That combined with not ingesting anything else - is a very powerful way of cleaning and "flushing out" your system of toxins.
TDD
As a result of my studies over quite a number of years I concluded the natural diet for the human animal was one that consisted largely of raw vegetables and fruits. Not only that, my work also led me to conclude that 99% of all sickness and ill-health in western society was directly caused by diet.
The two main culprits are sugar and animal products, especially dairy. The body was never designed to digest animal flesh. It does try as best as it can and people can survive off it to a point. But what happens is all the undigested proteins putrefy in the gut which places a tremendous load on the immune system; as it's the immune system which has the unenviable task of clearing away all the toxins that are developed.
The immune system can only deal with so much. It is already loaded from the constant barrage of toxins which just occur naturally. Like viruses and bacteria that try and find a foothold in the body in whatever way they can. Though a normal healthy immune system can virtually always fight off these natural invaders before they can take a hold. It is only when a person comes across an abnormal occurrence, say, if they got bitten by a poisonous snake that the immune system might need some kind of supplementation such as the injection of an antidote.
However, when a person has pounds of indigestible, putrefying meant in their gut, the immune system becomes so loaded that these natural viruses and bacteria begin to take a hold and the person gets sick. And because one person's body works very much like any other, and because enough people tend to eat the wrong foods in much the same way, there are distinct similarities in the way people get sick.
These similarities have been catalogued over the years. So when a person is recognised as being sick in a certain way, western medical science says they have caught a disease. All manner of pills and potions have been developed to mask the symptoms of these diseases, but without actually getting to the very root cause of the problem, which is... diet.
But that is only half the story.
When the digestive system had been loaded with pounds of putrefying meat, very little else can be digested properly. This means there is precious little raw material available for bodily repair processes. So the person's body begins to degenerate. This comes about in obvious ways such as they lose flexibility, muscle-tone and skin-tone; they can also lose their hair, their teeth, and so forth. And the degeneration can come about in some not so obvious ways such as unexplained anxiety and depression.
To a large extent, this degeneration process locks a person in a kind of downward spiral of degeneration. Because the degeneration doesn't just affect the outward expression of the body, it affects all bodily processes including the brain. In other words everything is affected. Which is how we get to a situation today where ever so many people in western society are over-fed, yet their bodies are severely undernourished.
I doubt very much, therefore, whether a person's ability to obe could in any way be some kind of exception. Okay, it could be argued that the whole obe "thing" is not a product of the body but of the mind which, as more enlightened members realise, is not directly of the body. But a common prerequisite to the obe process is the ability to relax the physical to a high degree. If a person's nervous system is constantly on edge from that person suffering all manner of physical complaints, then I would suggest their ability to obe would certainly be affected also.
Fasting can work well for someone who eats a normal western-style diet; as it tends to relieve the immune system from the continuous digestive load, and allows it to start clearing up on other bodily issues to a degree. But fasting for too long can cause its own problems, as the body requires a constant source of nutrients for all its repair processes. The solution is simply to stop ingesting the toxic products in the first place, by eliminating all meat and dairy from the diet plus all non-natural sugars. Though I would suggest a person even eat fruit sparingly as the sugar content is quite high, natural or not.
When a person becomes in-tune with their body then natural variations will come about. With me, for example, I find no natural need to drink large amounts of water during the day. Maybe because I add no salt to my food whatsoever. So I drink about a litre/litre and a half, a day that's all. Plus, fasting is not something I ever do for more than a day, as I carry very little bodyfat and before long my body starts eating away muscle which I like to keep. :)
HTH
Yours,
Frank
Greetings Frank,
Excellent post and I totally agree with you!
Much of the way people behave including in relation to eating is in the mind; people are programmed from the day they are born about the way things "should be" in accordance with tradition, and because it is the "way things are done". So people tend to become programmed by the age of 5 years, and most people are running on that program for the rest of their current physical life. This is a major reason why people become "stuck" in the cycle of reincarnation; they come to Earth to get it right, and then after 5 years of prpgramming they spend the rest of their physical life getting it all wrong yet again. This applies to many, if not most aspects of life in modern society where people spend their lives conforming to the expectations of others. This is also a major reason why people need to learn about and understand the higher realities, and their true path; to evolve back to The First Cause; God.
But back to the subject of food; people are programmed to eat three oor four meals per day, eat meat and two veg, and so on. Very few people spare the time to consider the effect on their own bodies, and in particular innocent creatures who are every bit an aspect of God as humans are. When a human hurts an animal or the environment, he or she equally hurts a part of themselves and their is a karmic price to pay in accordance with the law of Cause and Effect. If you ask people why they eat meat, they will invariably say because it is the thing to do, or even "because it tastes nice". Just yesterday I took this up with a relative who does not approve of my vegan diet when she siad she eats meat because it tastes nice. I ask whether people give any thought at all to the suffering that creatures have to go through just to gratify the physical human senses, especially, as Frank rightly says, we were never designed to eat meat, or fast foods, or dairy products etc.. Is it any wonder therefore that these foods have such a devasting effect on the human body, and therefore the ability to do natural things such as OBE? The same comments apply to alcohol, tobacco and other mind altering substances.
Only when mankind fully understands their true purpose and objectives will these things become apparent, and when that happens such a person will eat in accordance with the true requirements of the human body, and enjoy all the benefits that go with it.
As for fasting; it is an excellent thing to do providing it is done in a responsible manner. It is an excellent test of willpower as well as detoxifying the body if there are any toxins, which in the case of people who eat meat, dairy products, sugars etc., and consume alcohol, smoke tobacco, partake of other mind altering substances there certainly will be.
With best regards,
Adrian.
Hi Frank,
You nailed it right on.
As for low bodyfat - I have almost no bodyfat to speak off - and fast on a regular basis for up to 10 days on only water with out any problems. What I have found is that I needed to stay physaically very active (not on the fast itself.. just in general) and do some kind of regular exercise in order to keep muscle tone even when fasting regularly. This has alowed me to gain weight (muslce) while being on 100% raw and fasting regularly for 36hours each week.. + 2 10 day fasts/cleanses a year.
EDIT: Adrian - even in a person that lives a healthy lifestyle - toxins accumulate just from the fact that the earth is not in a natural a state as it was lets say 100 yrs ago. At the same time even Plato and Socrates + numerous others - prescribed regular fasting for best health and well being.
A very interesting read is "Miracle of Fasting" by Braggs. Waht caught my eye in that one is the notion that you fast and cleanse..and stick to a diet.. until the point comes were your body naturally signals what it needs (mostly raw fruits and veggies) - and he would consume a few raw organic eggs every 5-7 years or so.. only to not touch any animal products for the next 6 years:) - I have been on 100% raw for only 2 years.. so cant speak to that yet:)) but makes a lot of sense.
Best,
TDD
Adrian: a number of excellent insights! I especially loved the line, "they come to Earth to get it right, and then after 5 years of programming they spend the rest of their physical life getting it all wrong yet again." It's just SO true. After all, we have all done it before. Well, I know I have. But this time, thankfully, it was different... somehow I realised.
tdd: I've taken on board your fasting pointers and I'll certainly give it a go (36 hour fast) and see what happens. I lose weight fairly quickly even if I don't eat for a day. Such that my body can start to feel wasted. But maybe that's all a result of "conditioning". In this respect I do tend to agree with Tisha in that it's no fun. But maybe there is a hurdle for me to overcome. Like I say, I'll give it a go and see.
Yours,
Frank
Greetings Frank,
Thanks you for your kind remarks [:)]
I am not sure what sort of fast you have in mind, but I would recommend a juice fast.
I completed a 30 day juice fast a couple of weeks ago and I am still here [:)] The first week is the hardest, after that I don't tend to even think about food too much. Actually I don't think about food much anyway [:)] This was my longest fast, but I have done 21 days before without problems.
With best regards,
Adrian.
Wow, Adrian, I'm a bit in awe at what you say. I can see there's a learning curve I'm sitting at the bottom of here.
When you say juice fast I'm assuming you mean any juice, for example carrot juice, and not just fruit juice. It's just that fruit-juices are really not my thing as I find them too sweet (never did have a sweet tooth even when I was a kid).
If so then what I'll try is drinking only carrot-juice for 36 hours. Wow, that seems like a heck of a long time to go without a spinach salad. :) Longest I ever did to date, which I do about once a month, is 24 hours on just water.
Yours,
Frank
Hah, I gotta see this. Frank, when you are done drinking nothing but carrot juice for 36 hours, take a picture of yourself! You will be yellow!
If I were to do a juice fast (and I just might), I would chose low-salt and/or spicy V8 juice (veg mix), and a "green" juice (spirulina/broccoli/fruit) mix that looks horrid but tastes like a thick pear juice. I'd also mix in some organic aloe vera juice - - low sugar, vile-tasting, and expensive, but an effective immune-system modulator.
I'd make my own juices from fresh raw organics, but as a busy single working mom, I'd never get around to it. In fact, do those of you who fast regularly keep up your regular schedules when you fast? Some of us have little choice but to put in 12-hour days.
quote:
Hah, I gotta see this. Frank, when you are done drinking nothing but carrot juice for 36 hours, take a picture of yourself! You will be yellow!
hahaha, I was going to say the same thing, it will happen.[:D]
I just don't know about all this.. I can't go without eating, I get all dizzy and weak after about 3 days. I suppose I'm the only freak that loves a nice steak..[:O] I've been trying to work out a plan that works best for me and not having too much luck on that one. I do like V8 though, so maybe instead of just water I should throw that in, that might take away the dizzy feeling..eh?
Nay
Greetings Frank,
quote:
Originally posted by Frank
Wow, Adrian, I'm a bit in awe at what you say. I can see there's a learning curve I'm sitting at the bottom of here.
When you say juice fast I'm assuming you mean any juice, for example carrot juice, and not just fruit juice. It's just that fruit-juices are really not my thing as I find them too sweet (never did have a sweet tooth even when I was a kid).
If so then what I'll try is drinking only carrot-juice for 36 hours. Wow, that seems like a heck of a long time to go without a spinach salad. :) Longest I ever did to date, which I do about once a month, is 24 hours on just water.
Yours,
Frank
There is no learning curve at all; it all about willpower at the final analysis. It is a case of deciding you will do it, and just do it. Don't forget, there is no such concept as "try", we either do something or we do not [:)]
The testing times are when cooking for others as I do being a single father of my three sons ages 13, 12 ans 11. Also, walking around the supermarket; while it can be a challenge in some respects, I regard Supermarkets as one of the most unfortunate aspects of mankind; the need to have all of those different foods, all wrapped in packagaes, containers etc., designed to seduce the physical senses of the shopper. I find it highly amusing that people buy food, or indeed anything on that basis [:)] Sadly, people rarely give any thought to the untold suffering that is evidenced by meat products sitting on shelves wrapped in colorful wrappings.
Our needs are very basic, we need certain amounts of protein, available from plants, vitamins etc., all of which can be obtained either from source or from the greengrocers etc..
But to get back to the subject, aside from the willpower aspect, all that is necessary is to remind ourselves what foods we truly require to live healthily, and in what quantities, and to also realise that most people eat out of habit rather than necessity.
With best regards,
Adrian.
Frank,
The wasted feeling is normal and happens due to the toxins being dumped into the bloodstream within the first 72 hours.
After that the fast gets much easier.
36 hour fasts are very easy to acomplish by going to bed early - since the initial cravings for food and "wasted feelings" get the strongest in the late afternoon.
After having fasted on a regular basis for more than 3 years - I just feel great on my 36 hour fasts with nothing bothering me other then occasional lightheadedness when I work on something urgent.
It took me quite a bit of cleansing and 100% raw food to feel great from fasting. Its a long process after so many years of eating a de-naturalzied diet.
Tisha is right that Juicefasting might initially be more helpful since you wont experience strong cleaning reactions - especially on vegetable juice which nourishes more (fruit juice cleanses more) - yet I would strongly recommend drinking only "alive" fresh juiced juice out of organic fruits or veggies. While it does add some work - its day and night compared to bottled and/or processed juices.
Other things that make fasting much easier - are liver cleanses and colon cleanses ( to first get all the impacted mucus out of the intestines that has accumulated over many years - most people carry 10-20 LB just of that - even vegeterians) - I can PM you reference sites if interested.
Best,
TDD
Most store-bought juices are just sugar and some vitamin C. Just look at the labels! (I just went to the grocer) But for the most part, even the organic juices you pulverize in your own home are mainly SUGAR. Energy from carbohydrates.
I'm not interested in the raggedy feeling that comes from an all-carbohydrate diet (up!down!up!down!AUGGGHHHHHHHHHH!), so you won't see me juice-fasting or raw-fooding for longer than a day or two. My diet will generally continue to consist of proteins . . . even if I limit myself to beans and seeds (can't eat nuts, allergic). Had catfish, corn, watermelon and pomegranate juice tonight [^] and was perfectly happy with my decision.
WELL, enough about changing diet for health or spirituality's sake! Let's cut to the chase: I want to know if folks out there have noticed a change in their ABILITY TO OBE since they changed their diets. I'm not talking about simple "altered states," because a sugar high/low is an altered state, and the whacked out feeling from starving yourself is also an altered state, and as far as I'm concerned, THOSE states don't count (PS: I fasted and went on a Native-American "vision quest" many years ago so I know the feeling, and it's different from OBE).
I'm talking strictly OBE here, the ability to deliberately get out of your body and DO something . . . anyone notice a change?
Though my gig isn't OBE, it still pretty much equates the same - clairvoyance, visions, "tuning in" to the spirit world.
I've noticed that as my psychic skills have increased there are some foods that I just don't want to eat any more. Red meat being the main one, and chocolate (cut down a lot) the other.
Red meat in particular - I used to love a really good steak, but now I don't want to eat it at all. I think it will be some time off before I turn veggitarian, but for now I seem to be naturally cutting back on "heavier" animal product type foods.
Regards,
James.
Hi Tisha,
Yes, siince eating 100% raw and fasting, I noticed an increase in my ability to have OBE's.
Homepressed juice (aside from lots of sugar if you juice fruit) - has also an enormous amount of various vitamins and enzymes:) Mostof which die shortly after being juiced (exception being ones like vitamin C )
Best,
TDD
MajorTom,
I have cut back on my coffee lately as well. I'm trying to see if it makes a difference. Back during my heaviest concentration of OBEs, I practically spent my paycheck at Starbucks on doubleshot bolds (major caffiene)[8)]. My wife marveled at the fact that I could drink a double shot (espresso) venti sized bold coffee and lay down and take a nap an hour later. If I drink coffee and get still, I fall asleep.
I limit my coffee to a few cups of home brew lately. As of yet, I don't see where it makes much of a difference.
D.C.
Tisha: my diet has evolved as my obe abilities have evolved. With me they went hand in hand like it had all been planned that way from the beginning. Basically I feel more "connected" than I ever have. It's something which is difficult for me to explain. It's like I am far more accepted now in the non-physical company I keep, and as a result more doors just continue getting opened; and as I develop and learn to take on board new prerequisites, more doors are opened, and so on.
It took a while before I got it right; so many twist and turns and blind alleys; and I know there are ever so many challenges I have yet to face. But I now know a lot of the lives I went through to get where I am now; and knowing that makes me feel so grateful to be me. So no matter what it takes that's what I have to do. If it means being on a raw-food diet (or whatever) then so be it.
Adrian: Yes, I agree, I just wrote it out a hundred times (seriously): I shall not try, I shall just DO. You know, one of the best things about my now living in France is I never visit a supermarket (I despise the places). I grow a lot of organic vegetables, far more than I can consume, so I'm a member of the local organic grower's cooperative and we bring our surplus to market, as it were. It's wonderful because we deal direct and cut out the big-money parasites that would otherwise seek to bleed us dry: like they do with farmers in developing countries. As for all the meat products on colourful wrappings, untold suffering, and about our needs being very basic, yep, I'm 100% with you there.
I always thought it would be an interesting scenario if there were a race of animal beyond us who liked to think of chewing on human-animal flesh as we now think of chewing on, say, cow-animal or chicken-animal. Oh how we would be so dead against eating meat!
Yours,
Frank
I think it is great that ya'll have this... but I'll be honest and say now I feel a bit judged and guilty..[:(]
I know you can't be held responsible for my feelings and I'm sure it was not meant to make others feel..ummm..beneath. I'm not some cold hearted being that hates animals, I just happen to like fish, chicken and yep, steak, even though I haven't had any in over a few months (too expensive..[:P])
After reading the thread last night I decided to try no meat for a week to give Tisha the honest answer she seeks. I asked my hubby if he wouldn't mind doing it, of course he said "yes, I'll do it, but not because I want to get out of my body, but because I want to help you" [:D] Love that man of mine.[:X]
I have been doing lots of thinking over a month or so about alot of things.. I know I have a addictive nature, unfortunatly food was one of them when I was in a bad marriage, it gave me comfort, does that make sense? I am pleased to say I, like Adrian don't think about food so much anymore, I eat only when hungry..but meat is involved..hehe. Plus it probably has something to do with my Hiatal Hernia that I now possess..Hmmmm..light bulb moment.[;)] Perhaps that was my body trying to tell me something and being me, it took a very large slap in the face?
But the one confusing thing that is happening for me is.... I've have stopped trying for projections, I guess since I started doing all that thinking and yet I've several times now, this morning including, having to fight to NOT project. Now I never thought that would be the case, never.
My question..why? Is it just because I'm not trying and by higher-self (or whatever we are calling it these days) is saying..DON'T STOP, or not eating as much..I just don't know.
Thanks for listening to my ramblings.
Nay
I am seriously considering cutting out caffeine, dairy products and refined suger from my diet.
While a frightning concept at first, I have found that there are veggie alternatives which taste just as great and can be used when i have the craving for such things.
I have already begun this change in the last two weeks, by switching from caffeine based products to herbal teas, or even hot water with lemon juice... after a few days I don't miss the tea & coffee.
I can use honey instead of refined suger (nasty stuff) as a sweetner, as its natural suger i don't have a problem with it, as long as you don't OD on it of course, then its fine; its all about moderation.
I am going to switch to soya milk instead of animal based milk, its damn tasty.
To my great delight as I am a cheese lover, and the world seems a greyer place without cheese, I have found that you can get veggie cheese, made from vegetable fats.
It tastes just like normal cheese, in fact I have found it tastes even better!
Again, veggie cheese is great as long as you don't OD on it because its still fatty, once again, no-one is saying don't eat these things, just be moderate about it.
Now the only problem, is that now again i go for a meal with my friends, and I do enjoy a good indian or chinese, which do contain meats and animal products. and the veggie options are never very good.
I think that you don't have to be cruel to yourself and say 'I will never have another indian or chinese agian'.
I think that as long as you eat the meat&dairy-free diet the rest of the time, then NOW AND AGAIN you CAN go for an indian, and you shoudnt have to feel guilty about it (from a health point of view, although perhaps not from an ethical point of view!).
I really think that if you only have these things on the odd occasion, its not going to do you any harm. However, when I mean 'now and again' I mean that, not every weekend!
For example, I only really go out for such meals once every month or two, which I don't think would do you any harm if you kept to the meat and dairy free diet the rest of the time.
Good luck everyone!
Douglas
PS everyone should check their sliced bread, even bread often branded as 100% wholemeal, as I have noticed that a lot of companies pump loads of refined suger into it to make it taste nicer; so make sure you check labels!
I know it may sound obvious, but chewing your food properly (20 or 30 times) is nearly as important as what you eat, really pulp it. You would need to eat much less because more of the nutritional value of the food is released earlier and taken into the body. By chewing properly you can more than treble the amount of nutrients that get absorbed, and you'll probably have much better breath than your dog and less problems with farts. People seem to think they chew enough, but most don't.
"Chew your drink, and drink your food." - Ghandi.
quote:
Originally posted by stephen~
I know it may sound obvious, but chewing your food properly (20 or 30 times) is nearly as important as what you eat, really pulp it. You would need to eat much less because more of the nutritional value of the food is released earlier and taken into the body. By chewing properly you can more than treble the amount of nutrients that get absorbed, and you'll probably have much better breath than your dog and less problems with farts. People seem to think they chew enough, but most don't.
"Chew your drink, and drink your food." - Ghandi.
OMGoodness!! I think you just solved my problem. [:D]
See with this Hiatal Hernia, which literally means a protrusion through an opening. Part or all of the stomach protrudes through the diaphragm, in the area where the esophagus enters the stomach. Soooooooo, sometimes when I eat solid foods, it chokes me, seriously... I thought a couple times I was gonna croak. I have to chew really, really good, get it all liquified if you will..[:P] (sorry, that was gross)
If I take a bite of chicken or something and can't shallow it, I put it down and opt for the more mushy stuff.. like rice or mashed potatoes.
Can't figure out how you solved my problem yet?..lol. well, even though I do eat meat, maybe the fact that I chew it really good and not so often anymore because of the choking factor, makes it digest better? How else can I explain me fighting off these spontaneous projections?
Thanks,
Nay
Adrian, can we have a new forum called "astraldiets.com" please ?!
[8D]
SOmeone above mentioned soy, and while I don't think that is an entirely bad idea, I feel some caution is in order.
One of the big 'benefits' advertised from soy drinks are the 'isoflavones', a potentially beneficial substance alleged to aid metabolism and decrease the risk of heart disease and various types of cancer.
What the ads don't tell you is that isoflvones are a phytoestrogen - an estrogen-like plant compound - loaded with the stuff. Human estrogen is about 400 times stronger, but thousands of times more isoflavones are ingested than in a standard HRT pill.
http://www.lef.org/prod_hp/abstracts/php-ab325.html
I'm not saying you can't enjoy soy, but if you start to sprout breasts, I suggest you cut down on your servings.
Currently, there is a lot of controversey over the real 'healthfulness' of soy;
http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/articles2/billion.htm
Runlola,
While I made my own personal choice not to eat meat, and feel best on 100% raw fruits and vegetables - I do not believe that it "hurts the planet".. eating and being eaten was always part of this planet.. just that we "stopped being eaten" quite a qhile ago:))
I do believe however that it hurts the person eating it.
Soy is very very mucus forming and highly processed (when you buy soy based products in the supermarket) - I have seen lots of people that went vegeterian and started loading up on flour and soy based products - and looked and felt terrible:) They kept justifying it by speaking of needing to transition still etc.. but they would just keep on feeling worse and worse from all that gunk in their system:)
No offense intended to people that do great on soy.. at some point if you are physically very very active.. it almost stops mattering what you eat since you will burn it up pretty much anyway (until you get a buildup of toxins and get sick) .. but why do it the hard way if there is food that is perfect for our system (raw plant based foods)
Best,
TDD
"While I made my own personal choice not to eat meat, and feel best on 100% raw fruits and vegetables - I do not believe that it "hurts the planet".. eating and being eaten was always part of this planet.. just that we "stopped being eaten" quite a qhile ago:))
I do believe however that it hurts the person eating it."
Yes, eating and being eaten but in nowhere near the scale that we now do and entirely unnecessarily. When it happens naturally, in nature, there is always a balance that is achieved. But in our inane and senseless bungling we break every natural rule in the book. Which you and others may well believe does not hurt the planet, but there are people who today still believe the world is flat.
The facts are there for everyone to see. But as I've said before, most people are more interested in what's happening in their favourite Soap, than the devastation that is being caused to our environment.
Yours,
Frank
quote:
The facts are there for everyone to see. But as I've said before, most people are more interested in what's happening in their favourite Soap, than the devastation that is being caused to our environment.
Tehehehehe..dang Frank, you know how to make a girl feel good about herself..[:P]
I have one soap that I've watched for years, now come on...that doesn't make me bad does it? [:(] I suppose I'm going to have to incarnate a few more times to get that true feeling in my heart..in all honesty I don't spend too much of my energy thinking about what is happening with the enviroment as a whole, I stick to what is around me, ya know what I mean? I can teach my kids to respect nature and whatnot and my big pet peeve are litter bugs..[}:)]
It does sux that things are happening across the world, but what can I do..really? I guess I only have enough in me to focus on what happens in my little world, that may sound really rude and selfish, but really, I would go crazy thinking about all the horrors of the world, I'd never come out of depression..[xx(]
It's obvious that there are people on ...I'll call it different levels, but just because I like soaps, gossip with friends, eat meat..etc..doesn't make me bad. Please tell me I'm not bad..[:D]
*sniff, sniff* I always thought I was a pretty decent person. But with your guidelines..yikes..I'm the devil..hehe
Nay
P.S. not picking on ya, just giving my thoughts freely.[:)]
I need a good answer here. I've told a few people that I'm thinking about switching to a meat and dairy-product free diet, primarily for health reasons but also for ethical ones.
However some smart-arses are asking whether 'killing' plants and vegetables is not just as cruel. People say its ok because plants are not sentient, but who are we to judge what is 'sentient' and what is'nt.
Of course, by this rational, we shouldnt eat anything and the human race should just die out, which is clearly stupid, so how do I answer this one?
Are we not cruel to plants by plucking them and eating them? do we not cause them pain by eating their leaves?
Douglas
quote:
Originally posted by Gandalf
I need a good answer here. I've told a few people that I'm thinking about switching to a meat and dairy-product free diet, primarily for health reasons but also for ethical ones.
However some smart-arses are asking whether 'killing' plants and vegetables is not just as cruel. People say its ok because plants are not sentient, but who are we to judge what is 'sentient' and what is'nt.
Of course, by this rational, we shouldnt eat anything and the human race should just die out, which is clearly stupid, so how do I answer this one?
Are we not cruel to plants by plucking them and eating them? do we not cause them pain by eating their leaves?
Douglas
Hi,
Is that not what fruitarians subscribe to? In that they only eat fruits, seeds and nuts and therefore avoid killing plants to be able to sustain themselves! But then I should not speak as a sad auld Ovo-lacto vegetarian!
Cheers,
Stephen
P.S. See www.notmilk.com www.madcoyboy.com for additional reasons not to eat meat or dairy!
I used to say I've never meet a Vegatariun that wasn't a nutjob. Now I find myself moving more towards a less meat diet. It's mostly a subconcious decision, a result of meditation and study. I eat red meat now only when I don't have a choice(it happens, sometimes that's all there is available). I do more seafood (chickens have it worse than cows as far as mass production). Fortunately I can get Organic chickens around here 9and they taste soooooo much better it's scary).
American agriculture is horribly inefficient, energy/resouce wise, but very efficient compared to the rest of the world. You forgot to factor in transportation costs into all that, then it really gets out of scale energy wise. I automatically discount anything with a political bias, which unfortunately is 98% of the information. Sorry, but the Siera club is a political action group that doesn't care about the enviroment, it's just a tool.
Going to the extreme of nuts and fruits only is just that, extreme.
And has anyone brought up the difference between fresh/alive food and old dead food? The greatest thing I ever ate was a perfectly ripe apple, plucked from a tree in the orchard on a chilly October morning with my daughters 1st grade class. An apple from the same tree tasted 1/2 as good a week later after I picked it.
Runlola,
I am aware of those numbers and facts. I probably did not make myself to clear in my post. I was not referring to excessive meat eating.. nor the support of that sick indsutry. I was referring to the fact that some people are just not able to absorb nutrition from plant based foods to well.. and may need to suplement their diet with some animal protein.. and that can happen by supporting local.. organic.. small coops.. ecologically low impact raised farm stock.. etc etc.. that there is nothing (in my opnion) with a small amount of animal protein added to ones diet if really needed.
Frank - neither do I believe that the earth is flat.. nor that there is no harm done by this industry.. nor that EVERYTHING isn't being done in great excess that is not at all needed for ones life.
I merely indicated that in my opinion the meat eating itself - is not the real problem and does not hurt the planet - and that in my opinion there is nothing wrong with it - should you be a person that just needs occasional animal protein. The discussion was not the industry.. just the meat eating itself. There should be no guilt.
no tv here for many years - so sorry no soaps:)
EDIT: here is a very good reference site written by a person who has been on just fruit for years.. then raw food for years.. and researched various vegan.. raw.. fruit diets for many years and looked past the idealism that some people take as a reason to go vegan/raw etc.- http://www.beyondveg.com/
Best,
Theodore
Nay,
In my opinion that is all one should start with - focusing on how their actions impact the world.. and improving themselves.. and only then moving onto other people.. their immediate family.. friends.. then neighborhood.. town etc..
But nothing good comes from saying how bad the state of the world is.. and nothing good comes from blaming people .. or telling them that they are doing wrong.. everyone is on their own path and often is not ready to understand.. and the more you yell the more they will be sure that they are right and you are just nuts. No matter how wrong they are. All that happens is you drive youself crazy with worry focusing on the whole world.
Yet by living your life the best you can.. you can become an inspiration for others to do the same.. and they then can inspire others to do the same .. and THAT is what can truly change the world IMO. One person at the time - starting with always yourself.
Best,
TDD
quote:
Originally posted by runlola
TDD,
like I said, I think some blood types have to eat meat but
I am not one of them. I haven't researched that. I still think
it hurts the planet the way it is today. I don't see many folks
going out to hunt & kill their own food. Fresh organic meat does
not compare to what the majority eats these days & that is what
hurts the planet IMO. You are not a bad person to me because of
what you eat, you may just have bad breath.
That is absolutely true.
"not bad because of bad breath" - LOL:) thats a good one .. but even that they came up with how to masquerade and hide with all their fancy gums and mints and schmints and what not - doesn't stop the rotting though:)
Best,
TDD
Animal waste washed into rivers and lakes causes increased nitrates, phosphates, ammonia, and bacteria, and decreases the oxygen content. This kills plant and animal life. - runlola
Hmm, well in regards to the UK at least, nitratres and phosphates get into the rivers because they are sprayed onto crops in the first place. I find it difficult to believe that 10,000 acres of sprayed crops would produce less quantities than a field of cattle the same size.
The reason we have been losing so many species (in the UK again) is because once grazed or largely untreated arable farmland has been turned into arable monoculture or 'improved' monoculture grassland. Native wild plants can't survive in the face of chemicals and competive imported or bred plant species. When habitat disapears all the species within disapear too, from microbial and plant life to invertibrates and birds. A change from one grass species to another can finish a species locally. The leeching of those mentioned chemicals from crop sprayed fields into rivers has resulted in some water based species going to the edge of extinction here.
Intensively farmed arable land quite obviously contains less species of any and every kind than the same land did a century ago when there was less tampering. And in a once heavily sheep and cattle orientated landscape there was no shortage of otters and other aquatic species, whereas they came close to extinction due to crops and the obsessive drive to improve them post WW2, so the animal and nitrate in the dung argument doesn't really hold water, at least here - maybe you have bigger shitters than us lol. Same cause of loss is true of many falcon species, whose egg shells are softened in direct consequence of pesticides on crops which get into insects, insect eating birds and mammels and bird and mammel eating birds. All round, arable is much more disasterous for the planet as a whole than pasture is because it is not as biologically diverse by design, or as contiuously in use all year every year as unimproved pasture is, and it is the main cause of pollution in our watercourses.
For me it is not an issue whether eating meat is right or wrong, how those animals are treated is. The whole planet lives in a precarious balance, natural disasters that result in climate and ulitmately habitat change we can do nothing about, are maybe even beneficial, we wouldn't be here now if they weren't. The loss of plant and animal life due to industry's idea of what they think we want and need to eat and how much we'll pay for it is something we can change, if we care enough.
Killing a lamb to eat would revolt some people, but what has been done to the countryside in the name of crop production has killed far more species. Unfortunatlely birds, insects, small and medium sized mammels, lizards, butterflies, moths, wildflowers and fish are not big and cuddly-wuddly like lambs so this goes unnoticed by the majority. Diversity is surely the main issue, because food chains are seriously complex and cope badly with the loss of any one part of it, and if we don't care about life because it is not pretty or usefull to us, what does that say about us? Every time an old grassland is ploughed up to grow crops that's another group of interdependent species that cease to exist and won't return, if we don't care about that well we should.
What I say is you cannot easily do the right thing, nor should we be smug about being vegetarian. It's a hard world, whatever we do something will suffer, just because you don't notice it doesn't mean it isn't happening. If you demand more crops, better fruit, better veg this will impact on species. The most naturalistic state for countryside across large parts of the world is trees and grass, trees and grass. That's it, any deviation from that and species start to disapear. People have got to eat, but whether they are meat eaters or potato eaters or nut eaters, our demands for perfect food all year round has got to stop. It's easy to blame farmers for this over intensification instead of ourselves. Caring about the planet and all its diversity means putting up with having maggots in your apples again like they used to have, something which I doubt many of us are prepared to accept in practise.
Stephen,
Great post..
I for one prefer my apples organic with naturally occuring blemishes - and an occasional worm :) UNWAXED:) and not radiated:)
haha:)
I read the info on the "beyondveg" site and, in the main, it serves as a prime example of how people can become seriously screwed from not following a natural eating regime. Once you let yourself go beyond a certain point, it can become extremely difficult to get back on track... as the personal accounts demonstrate. Though I do note they tend to blame the "diet" rather than their own stupidity.
The article entitled The Calorie Paradox of Raw Veganism gave me a good chuckle. According to them I should be a pasty-faced anorexic. But therein lies the flaw of counting the value of food merely in terms of its calorific value.
Now this did make me laugh, and I quote: "just how the raw-food "experts" can claim to maintain weight, energy, and muscle on modest daily volumes of raw food".
Anyone who has met me could easily attest to the fact that I am of adequate weight for my height. I'm 5ft 9" and weigh 172lbs, carry around 4% bodyfat, so my bodyweight is mainly composed of muscle (which is rather obvious).
I have no problems whatsoever maintaining this!!! According to the website, I should have to eat around 20lbs of vegetables a day. What a load of rubbish. I eat normal-sized meals at around normal times. The simple difference being, my digestive system has NEVER been abused to any great extent.
I have never let myself go, and all my life I have never eaten sugar in any quantity. If you do that, you get seriously screwed to the point where it becomes very difficult to get back on track. In other words, it takes EFFORT over quite a long period of time... which most people in western society just cannot comprehend anymore.
And as for the cooked food argument, well, that's just too ridiculous for words. Name one animal that cooks its food? The argument is senseless to the extreme. It's like Douglas' friends who come back with notions of plants suffering in the same way as animals. Are there any limits on the depths of human ignorance? I always hoped there was a limit. But each year, as a race, we hit a new low to the extent where now I'm seriously beginning to wonder.
Yours,
Frank
quote:
Originally posted by Frank
I read the info on the "beyondveg" site and, in the main, it serves as a prime example of how people can become seriously screwed from not following a natural eating regime.....
I have never eaten sugar in any quantity. If you do that, you get seriously screwed to the point where it becomes very difficult to get back on track.
Thought you would enjoy the site:)
That was my point exactly - that many many people have lived for SO long on very bad diets.. that they just cannot go back to soemthing totally natural and do well on it. It required years of dedication to cleansing and lots of unpleasant things along the way.. that many people just can't do given were they are today.
And you can't blame them - they will just need more time... inspiration.. etc.. and some may still not be ready. Everyone has their things to work out.
quote:
Now this did make me laugh, and I quote: "just how the raw-food "experts" can claim to maintain weight, energy, and muscle on modest daily volumes of raw food"...
Yup thats a funny one:)
There is a swedish body builder (fdon't remember his name) who is a 100% fruitarian.
I think its that many people just cannot absorb nutrition from the raw foods due to their intestines being totally gunked up.
quote:
But each year, as a race, we hit a new low to the extent where now I'm seriously beginning to wonder.
I call this a "healing crisis".. things have to get a lot worse before they can get better... IMO
Best,
TDD
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13999
(the above link is to a topic on fasting)
Hello Frank, all:
Some of us have discovered diets that have helped us tremendously with our ability to OBE. Let's talk about it . . . [:D]
Examples:
1. I recently discovered my immune system reacts badly when I eat wheat/barley/rye, dairy, and eggs, so I've cut these foods out of my diet. I did not notice an immediate improvement in my ability to OBE. However, over a period of several months, my level of relaxation deepened (probably because I was feeling better!), thus aiding my ability to get to an OBE state. (some independent online research revealed that food allergies attack the nervous system, causing anxiety and depression, even seizures!) SO, I'm throwing out to the world this suggestion: If you have ANY chronic health issues, seek out hidden food allergies and adjust your diet accordingly. The main culprits tend to be dairy, grains (including corn), fish/shellfish, soy, and citrus.
2. I find heavy meals, specifically high-protein ones, very grounding. If I eat meat before bed I can pretty much forget about having an OBE. However, being chronically anemic (I try to donate blood but the Red Cross will have nothing to do with me!) and of the "caveman" blood type (O+), I do very poorly on a vegetarian diet (trust me, I've tried). It's therefore my challenge to factor in high-iron animal flesh sparingly and at the right time of day (i.e., morning), so I may "fly" at night.
3. I know fasting can lead to altered states, but in my experience, it's no fun.
Frank, thanks for agreeing to pass on your wisdom!!!!!!!!! Everyone else, feel free to pitch in .................