Frustrating..........................Really frustrating.

[Ruu]

Hey all.. I've been looking over this site and a few other astral type forums. Just because I like the idea of it and I KNOW it's possible and our brains are very capable of doing amazing things.

Why am I frustrated you say? because.... I can't really explain it. Basically, I cant project myself or visualize properly but somehow I feel I've done it before. The thing is I have these INSANE dreams where I cant even question if it is real or not, because it is simply real - at the time. I sadly cant control when they happen...

They happen a lot more frequently when I'm under emotional strain - where as my emotions are higher than normal. Be it stress, happyness, love, fear. Which emotion it is will also determine how the dream plays out. When I'm under a lot of stress/scared I will have a pretty creepy dream - Once I was in a forested area, more jungle than forest.. but not as dense. There was concrete stone slab about 20ft long and 15ft wide. It wasn't perfectly straight.. it was kind of sloping down. Behind that was two buildings. Simple buildings, no windows from where I was looking (back of the buildings) and both of these buildings had those metal stairs leading up to the window door. .... anyway.. that was one scary dream... I woke up later with fear covering my body.

Now, this was a visual dream, in some ways, one of the least intense dreams. I also have emotion based dreams. These dreams are a lot worse and are almost always fear based. There may be some slight visuals during them, but not much detail. In the emotion based dreams, I only get the raw emotions of what is going on. For example, you know that cold, agonising heart piercing scream that makes you stop what you're doing and you get the feeling of deadness in your heart? Remove the screen and any visuals you may have and just hold that raw emotion. The dream is full of raw emotions... it normally isn't fun at all and involves some scary excrement.. when I wake up I'll be messed up for the entire day - not thinking straight etc. For example, if someone had died in one of those dreams, (the raw emotion of someone dying, not watching them die) then I would wake up with that raw emotion still in me. That's even worse than having visuals, because you don't know what the hell happened because you have nothing to refer this feeling to - you just know someone/something died.

Oh... talked a bit too much... lol. I'll get to the point now shall I?
When I try and astral project, I just cant get the visuals.. How can I have these ridiculously realistic dreams in full colour... and not visualize anything but a damn black screen!? ARGH...
Let me show you what I see when I close my eyes and try to visualize something:
http://images.blogskins.com/skin_images/209/853/images/Black-Static.gif
Pretty similar to that actually... but there is a VERY slight tint of dark red/navy around the static.

And heres my visualisation in a dream: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bC1bdoMoYio/SwQ2Il32DSI/AAAAAAAAARA/9ZZos0Tr3xU/s1600/Forest.jpg
The white mist would be black and I would pay no attention to it in my dream, only what surrounds me. That is why it feels so real.


SO WHY!? why cant I create a clear image on my black screen >_<! Maybe I'm confusing myself.. well, I'm definitely confused. I'm meant to close my eyes... -closes eyes- now I see a black screen like I showed you above... am I meant to create a colour image on this? where are my paints? I cant even create a single colour! Maybe I'm trying to visualize wrong... how do I visualize.. with my brain?? my memory? ARGH..

I tried to move out of my body last night.. I spent about 30 minutes just doing 4/3 breathing.. and then did the tense one muscle, breathe out and switch it off. Although I can't even get a picture of my foot in my mind, let a lone my foot with a switch built into it... anyway I did that for all my body parts and was following this guide meticulously. I was told to imagine my feet/hands moving forward a couple of inches. This is where it got frustrating... I know what is supposed to happen, I know when you've got it right - even though I haven't done it before. It's like I've done it without knowing in a dream possibly. So I'm trying to get the feeling of my fingers edging forwards without actually moving them.. but I just cant. I ended up realising it was because I still had awareness of the body parts, I could still feel the duvet, which in turn was holding me back, anchoring me. I then spent a good while just trying to tell my self, deep in my mind, that my hands were not mine - lol. Trying to forget about my hands. I kind of lost awareness slightly. I know I got it right every so often, because it felt like my hands were.. not NOT there... (double neg) but that they were .. not attached to anything. As if my hands were just there. Not floating or resting on any object - they were just. Hard to explain .. I only got that intense feeling every so often and 9/10 it was me ever so slightly lifting my fingers off the bed without knowing lol! but I did do it with my hands on the bed because I remember thinking "holy crap my fingers are pointing upwards" and trying to pull them down and realising my hand was already on the bed.. that was definitely weird. I know when I was in the right mindset because my mind was entirely clear - I wasn't even visualizing anything. Pure black. Not the static-filled black canvas I normally have when I close my eyes (the black image above), it was much denser, with only a couple of blotches of static every so often. There would also be waves/impulses of even darker black coming over the canvas... only way I can explain it!

Anyway, I tried to lift out of my body/roll off my bed without actually jumping onto the floor. Didn't work. I tried to use the same principal I had gained from the hand floating(but not floating in thin air.. just .. there - hard to explain!!!) I couldn't do it. I couldn't get the same feeling as I did with my hand. I couldn't go that far. I could only make my hand lose feeling - I dont think I could move it about. Or maybe I was.. maybe that feeling was my mind moving my hand up. ARGH... >_<

Erm... long post.. with no real point... I think I've managed to confuse myself even more... I just needed to write this down - get it off my chest. Maybe someone can relate and give me some guidance.. -sigh-

[personalreality]

Well, dreams are a form of astral projection for starters, so the fact that you have such regular and vivid dreams tells me that you're probably a "natural" at projection, you just have to find the right conditions for yourself.

It is fairly well agreed upon that bedtime is not a good time to try to project, mostly because your muscle tension is high and your serotonin (allows your mind to stay alert) is low.  It's hard to visualize and stay mentally aware when your serotonin is low.  Let me be clear in saying that everyone's experience of projection is different and some people project just fine at night.  But on the whole, the common experience is that the morning or mid afternoon are the best times to practice. 

You might try to wake up a couple hours early in the morning and just stay in bed and practice projection then.  Or, the time I've had the most success with is about 2-4pm.  It seems that my mind is just tired enough at that point to allow me to visualize but not remain to active.  And that really is the trick, you need to be passively active.  Visualizing without emotional investment, detached. 

I think that if you find the right time to practice that you'll be able to do this easily.  Dreaming is a form of astral projection, you are just using a different mode of awareness.  When you try to induce conscious astral projection, you are basically inducing a dream that you have awareness in and then you shift your full awareness into the experience, thereby turning it into an astral projection.

[Ruu]

This is probably why I have the feeling that I've done it before then but not remember doing it myself. I get to a point when I'm meditating (so to speak.. just trying to concentrate on nothingness) where I feel myself slipping - I feel the darkness(as in when I close my eyes) become more solid and.. workable. I think if I can just hold that state for awhile, I might be able to image things.

I also forgot to mention... during the state where I felt I was calm and concentrating on nothingness - I could picture in the bottom of my black canvas (I don't even know what to call it lol... I mean when my eyes are closed basically) a small image. I don't even know how I forgot this! The image wasn't big, and it was in the center (almost crosseyed position). I couldn't get that image to move anywhere else. Anyway.. it was really small.. I really had to concentrate on it to pick out any details (at this point I my eyes would have probably been completely crossed.. it just seems to help get deeper into whatever I am trying to see). It was a normal house (I say house, but I couldn't see anything but what was directly in front of me) so I am really pushing myself to continue with this image and not just forget it.. because at that moment it was just a day dream - an image in my head. I wasn't 'immersed' in it. Anyway.. I went up the steps and that was it.. I then changed onto something else by accident.. Oh yes.. I tried to look at my feet, to make it more 'immersed' as if I was actually that person walking up to the door - rather than just a day dream type image. When I tried to look at my feet, I just imagined a pair of feet haha... So rather than looking down at staying in that scenario, the image changed to static feet. Then I tried to picturing my legs.. but they weren't mine.. just some random legs. Then I tried to imagine my face .. and it wasn't even a human face, just a 2d non realistic looking face - nothing like me.

This is what really annoyed me... Why can't I imagine what I want? why, when I want to imagine MY face do I picture something that ISN'T mine? and why when I try to look down at my feet, or look at my hands.. it would just change to an image of a pair of random feet or hands? So frustrating.. and confusing!

My replies are probably rather difficult to decipher.. Mainly because I'm not even sure how to describe and explain something that I myself do not even understand.

Luke~

p.s
I'm going to try again in a bit. I know you said it isn't a good time to do it, and on top of that I've been doing martial arts all day... hmm... not really helping myself here! I'll just practice the breathing exercises - maybe practice 'forgetting' about my hands again. (Another question: Is that what you do? do you try and forget about you body? remove the feeling and sensation from it? I get the feeling that as soon as I can fully let go of the feeling, I can start to use my mind a bit more.)


long post sorry  

[E]

Hi Ruu,

I read your first sentence and I'm thinking, This person is highly emotional.  Then I read on and you actually define the intensity of your emotions.  I had to chuckle.

Your dreams are not INSANE.  Your mind is simply trying to put all of your waking actions and emotions into perspective.

I sense that for you some affirmations might be helpful.  Something as simple as saying to yourself, "I am calm and relaxed now" and repeating that a lot.  And maybe, "Whereever I am is the right place to be".

You may find that if you can get yourself into a relaxed state and not struggle so hard, your efforts at projection will be more fruitful.  It's not calisthenics.  It's a peaceful wonder and allowance.

[Ruu]

Well I'm not exactly emotional per se - rather, I get into a few heavy arguments here and there in situations I shouldn't be putting myself in lol XD I'm a pretty chill guy and don't get worked up over much if it's just an any day problem. Now my sister... I could say she was definitely an emotional person. Screaming over simple questions etc etc.

My dreams aren't insane O_o? Well.. maybe the word I'm looking for is intense
Ye... I do find myself after lying there for a bit, actually questioning if I'm even getting anywhere lol..

I tried again last night - but this is after about 6 hours of training so it was bound to fail ._. I read Xanth's article ( I think it was Xanth) about SP and tried that. Not only was my physical body well and truly exhausted from the day, unfortunately, my mind was pretty shattered too. I kept trying to keep my eyes/body still and couldn't really do it for long. Eventually I just kind of drifted into a relaxed state and found myself hardly breathing. My right leg twitched a few times invoulentarily. The same for my right arm. No idea why my left side was left out. Nothing really followed on from that, I just had less awareness of my body - but not to a great degree.

Does anyone have any methods they use after they've got relaxed enough that they are hardly breathing and their eyes are calm. How do you lose awareness of your hands and feet etc? I can only seem to lose partial awareness - to the point where I don't feel every contact my body has with the duvet. I still know they're there and awake though.
I get kind of lost when I've relaxed, I'm not really sure what to do to progress. I normally end up just exploring the blackness and trying to picture things. Then I Try and jump into those images... which doesn't work lol -.-



This is for any posters that do hallucinogens: I've seen a few people saying that people may try and use hallucinogens to AP. How in the heck is that even possible lmao.. when I'm tripping.. Well.. I'm exactly that. How would you harness it? I know serious stuff would happen if I could. AP'ing sounds like it would be a pretty complex task whilst high.

[E]

Why was your mind "shattered"?

[Ruu]

As in, mentally exhausted - not split in pieces shattered xD.

I don't know.. I think it was lol. I couldn't concentrate enough like in my first attempt. On my first attempt I atleast felt like I was going somewhere - I could feel the progressively overwhelming sense of not concentrating on my body, surroundings anything in the physical world.
Hmm.. I seem to have described concentrating and not concentrating haha... What I mean is, I could concentrate on not concentrating... rofl.. Anyways, I just couldn't get anywhere. I managed to slow my breathing to almost nothing, but I couldn't let the awareness of my body go.

Basically - I ended up just desperately wanting to rest my muscles

I'm feeling good today and only have a short session of training today so I should be good to go. I've been reading up a lot on how to actually wake up in my dreams. I thought I was already lucid dreaming, since it seemed basically real at the time and rather than waking up trying to remember, I woke up knowing what had just happened 2 seconds ago vividly. So ye.. I just need to learn how to become aware see where that leads.

Luke~

[Ruu]

Hmm.. just had a bath then and whilst relaxing, I remembered a dream I had last night. Never remembered a dream this many hours on from sleeping. Stange feeling.. As soon as I remembered part of it I tried to remember the rest but hardly could - only a few segments. I woke up this morning pretty ticked off and confident that I didn't have a vivid dream.

[E]

Why was your mind "exhausted"?

[Ruu]

I completely forgot to explain haha.. my bad..

My mind was exhausted because I had been training for about 6 hours straight that day - extreme cardio, horse stance for long periods of time, traveling to different Dojos, remembering and practicing techniques, forms whilst physically worn out, etc. Maybe I wasn't mentally exhausted.. but I just couldn't get far - I couldn't relax or concentrate properly - until I pulled the duvet over and went to sleep in about .5 seconds lol.

For example, just now I decided I'd try meditate a little to clear my mind and try relax my muscles abit before my my session. As soon as I layed down, it felt right. Although it didn't go very well. I started off with nothing my my mind but the thought of slowing down my breathing and relaxing. I then started to forget about that and I eventually started to slip into a daydream/dozing off state. I'd be aware of what I was imaging in my head, and then I'd also be aware that I was slipping into sleep, and then whilst watching the daydream I'd suddenly snap out of it. I had multiple twitches. One of the 'twitches' was pretty damn funny.. I don't remember what I even daydreamed about now, but I was disturbed with my arms and legs twitching and also a 'gasp'. First time I've ever made a noise whilst twitching or anything. I wasn't frightened or anything, it was more of a 'holy excrement I'm falling asleep' rofl.. It may sound common to some people, but I don't sleep easy. If I'm not completely exhausted, it takes me hours of laying in bed to finally fall asleep. I never really 'nod-off'

Anyway.. off to MA now, I'll try again when I Get back.

[Ruu]

Well I just tried again then, but I had no intent to AP - I've put that on the back burner for now. I jumped in a bit too quick. So my goal was to get to that 'nod-off' point where my mind started to wander, so I could try and train myself to stay focused. Well.. I didn't really get near that stage this time. I managed to relax my body and my breathing was at minimal. I kept trying to think of an image and allow my mind to wander off, but it just wouldn't wander.. everytime I thought of an image, I'd eventually get bored of trying to wander with that image and be at square 1 again.

The only thing I noticed was (and this could possibly be because I was cold.. I didn't feel cold, but I checked my hands after I had stop tying and they were quite cold) I got a couple of weird sensations go through my entire body (most upper body). Kinda like a shudder from when you are cold, which made me think that. I didn't feel cold though, I felt warm .. but my hands were actually cold when I checked.
What was that? was it just the simple cold shudder? It felt good though, not like when you get the cold shiver. Here I am trying to explain the feeling again lol!

But ye, no real success I guess.. I eventually got tired of losing concentration and going back to square 1 again.

Luke~

[E]

Hi Luke,

You have imagination, intent, persistence and these are good qualities.  You will get where you want to go, I'm sure.

I don't know about the different body reaponses you are getting, the twitching and shudder.  It seems to feel different to you but maybe your strenuous workouts have something to do with it.?  Some chemical imbalance like sodium or calcium??  I don't know.

Are you familiar with the different levels of your being?  Physical, etheric, emotional, mental and soul?  Very interesting to study up on if you aren't.

I've been reading the pdf file about a guy named Frank who used to post on here. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/franks_posts_pdf-t31449.0.html
This is a very gentle man with loads of AP experience.  Maybe he could help you find a direction to your efforts that isn't so frustrating to you.

Also you could spend time, if you haven't already, reading the many different threads here.  Many have shared common experiences, joys, questions, fears, and frustrations.  Answers can be found if you tune in and not out.
Regards,
E

[Ruu]

Thinking about it now, it makes perfect sense that it could be the workouts.

I tried multiple times yesterday and I got nowhere. Definitely hit a wall. I don't really know what I'm doing wrong. I just lay down and close my eyes and focus on allowing my body to relax and my breathing to become minimal. By this point I can hear nothing around me apart from a slight ringing in my ear from the fact there is nothing else to hear. I don't really know what to do at this point..... I have read most of Franks page and it was a great help understanding the different foci. I will sometimes just be laying down for 30 minutes with no real progress. What am I meant to do? I tried imagining climbing a rope/ladder but that didn't help me lose awareness of my physical. The only thing I notice is that the blackness I get when I close my eyes now, is fairly full of static. Where as the blackness after awhile of just breathing slowly, is much smoother and my eyes are much calmer. I dont progres further than this though.

I dreamt multiple times last night though.. These few days of MA has really caught up on me and my body is completely aching now lol! Some VERY strange and random dreams last night... I've never woken up and remembered having multiple dreams. What's annoying is that I've CONSTANTLY been telling myself 'am I dreaming? - no I'm not' in the hope that I will RC in my dream... doesn't happen... I wake up content with my dream and progressively realise how vivid the dream was and that I should have tried to become aware. >.<

I've got a book called Synchro Destiny by Deepak Chopra that my mum said I should read sometime. I guess I'll read it now!

Thanks for the help btw
Luke~

[blis]

You're so nearly there man. Try not to get too frustrated. You will manage it sooner or later.

The only thing I can think to tell you is dont try so hard. If you get to the stage where you're seeing random stuff dont try and forcibly visualise things. Just be aware of whats there. You dont have to try and look at it, just be aware that somethings there. Things will come and go and start to solidify all by them self and before you know it you'll be immersed in another reality. You dont need to jump into the images.

[Ruu]

Semi successful attempt just now.. I felt some weird... minute vibrations around my upper body. Entirely different from the shudder like sensation before. This was more of a buzzing/bubbling/warm sensation.
Anyway.. I almost gave up, and before I knew it I was daydreaming and awoke myself by attempting to jump. In my bed. With nothing but my feet............. lol! my ankles hurt now.. n.n I must have been trying to jump over a bloody building or something the amount of force I put into that LOL.

Sadly I completely forgot what I was daydreaming about. I wasn't asleep, I was still aware. It wasn't anything astral like. Just a daydream that I'd slipped into.
I keep getting stuck at the daydreaming spot. I end up lying down for literally an hour before I start to get any sensations at all. Then I just seem to slip into a daydream which leads into sleep if I dont awake by a twitch.

ugh -.- I try and not think, and let it just happen, but it gets me nowhere, just blackness. Laying down with blackness infront of me for an hour. Or until I start to slip into a daydream..

Luke~

[Ruu]

Another load of dreams last night  . I couldn't even remember them all by the time I wrote them down, or even when I awoke. I did manage to write down 4 as far as I could remember. I couldn't remember much - only the essence of the dreams. I'm serious annoyed that I'm not RCing!


I was in my room, there was an alligator right by my door. (It was small in my dream, but somehow it was massive) I remember it grabbed something and ran under my bed. I may have startled it. I also remember a VERY strange moment. A voice told me that the 'spider'(!?) was trying to trick me and that it was actualy not under my bed now, it had
done a ninja on me and gone behind, around and was now on my arm. At this point I turned my arm over. First thing I noticed was that I was in my dobok (Martial arts uniform - black) I remember the sensation of something heavy on my arm as I turned it over. I then saw the spiders legs, then body. I was trying to pull it off my arm, and I could feel each of its legs grasp onto my arm. I then remember it biting me. (I don't remember much after that I wasn't in THAT much pain - more discomfort) (What's also important to note was in some section of my dream, I remember THINKING and remembering what it was like to be biten by a spider. When I say spider, I mean a massive tarantula. I remember, remembering a video of a tarantula biting and injecting a mouse)


how the heck did I not RC when that croc turned into a MASSIVE spider!?
Two strange things happened in this dream though.. one.. the voice? I've never had a voice in my mind telling me anything! I've had SPEECH in my dreams from other people or me talking to someone (not often) but I've never had a voice in the back of my mind give me advice lol! strange feeling. The second thing that isn't as significant is when I remembered the video of the tarantula killing a mouse, during my dream. That to me, seems like a logical thought. I wouldn't expect to do that in a dream - I wouldn't normally need to. In waking life I might look at something, and then remember something to try and get a better understanding of it. That's what it felt like lol.

Luke~

p.s

I have started documenting all my dreams now... hopefully this will help increase the consistency of the dreams and eventually allow me to become lucid.

[joneagle_28]

Hello Luke!

I understand your frustration.  When I first learned about astral projection, at first I didn't even believe it was real!  I thought everybody on these forums had got a hold of some good pot or that they were suffering from some delusions of some sort.  I couldn't help my curiosity though!  I had to know if it was real.  Night after night, after night I practiced.  As soon as I got home from work I would lay down, and start the astral projection techniques.  For a whole month straight, I experienced absolutely nothing!  I was just about to give up but something told me to keep trying, so I did.  The very next night I actually felt my astral arms waving back and forth.  I knew it was my astral arms because I had the sensation that both of my arms were waving in the air but when I opened my eyes both of my hands were still down by my sides.  I got so excited I told myself I will never give up.  After witnessing that I knew everybody was telling the truth and it was real.  A month later I astral projected and it was on a night I decided not to practice!

So my advice for you is to calm down and release your frustration.  Know for a fact that you will eventually do it!  Your not sure when but you know that it will be accomplished.  Trust me buddy it is worth every second that you practice!  It is by far the greatest human experience IMO. 

Now I want you to try something.  Are you ready?  Go back to the first time you kissed.  Was it a sunny day or was it at night?  Was it warm outside?  Did you have butterflies in your stomach?  Think of Vanilla Ice cream in a bowl, with Hershey's Chocolate syrup smothered on top, with nuts of your choice sprinkled on top, and a cherry laying on top of it all.

Now if you remembered your first kiss or if you were able to think of that Chocolate Sunday and it was accompanied with images, my friend that was visualization.  Visualization is very easy, people just over complicate it.  When I close my eyes, all I ever see is a blank screen with sometimes swirling colors.  But when I use the same mechanism I use to remember things like dates, events, movies, images... I'm using visualization.  That's it.  So chances are you are visualizing fine.  The more you practice, the stronger it gets.  Happy practicing.