Galantamine and Choline

[Fourthdimension]

hi what do people think of the suppliments Galantamine and Choline and can they be used effectively to achieve an obe seperatly.
which is most effective out of the two?

i cant buy galantamine because in england it is a prescribed drug.can any body give me advice on where to purchase it and by doing so am i breaking any laws.eg if i get it impotred from the internet.

can any body advise of any other suppliments

thanx

[T.L.]

I've read up on the two suppliments you've mentioned. From what I've read it seems reasonably safe to use Galantamine, and choline is basically a vitamin and sometimes included in some b vitamin suppliments. It seems that in your country they use galantamine to prescribe in treating alzheimers (cant find much if it has helped alzheimers).  However the way galantamine works and the idea behind it is effective in it's purpose. I have read a lot of the lucid dream forums mentioning it's use, and see about 90 percent of people saying it has worked for them to obtain WILDS (Wake initiated lucid dreams). Some have mentioned (1 or 2 people out of many) talk about side effects of Galantamine, however nothing serious.

   I would say give it a go if you wont be breaking any laws in your country. Im sure if its a prescribed (controlled drug) in your country then there are the equivalent of a controlled drug possession law there as we have here. However I dont think Galantamine is a controlled drug here.  What I wonder is why it helps people have WILDS. From all the research I've done on DMT (dimethyltryptamine) it really seems to be the chemical that causes dreams and states such as the OBE. Subjects given DMT (which occurrs in all of us naturally) talk about violent, electrical vibrations (also feeling like ones head will pop) at low doses but at high doses it seems they bypass this so fast they don't notice. Perhaps Galantamine (with extra choline in the system) helps the brain generate more DMT when one falls to sleep (that would be interesting).  Thanks for bringing this up though, it was interesting to read up on.

As far as suggesting other things you can try instead of Galantamine, if you can't legally get your hands on it. I would be weary of suggesting something else I have not done. However there is one thing I have tried and had promising results doing which was drinking the tea (and smoking)  I made out of calea zacatechichi (the dream herb). However the tea made from it is really bitter. Good luck.

[Fourthdimension]

thank you for your reply and feed back am a little too drunk to reply properly now lol so i will write a proper reply in the morning lmao
what is the controlled drug law?

thanx again

[T.L.]

I don't know because I don't live in England. However, in the united states a person can not possess a prescription drug without a prescription or they can get charged with possession of a controlled substance. I would assume though you have the equivalent of that law over there, otherwise there wouldn't be a need to have a "prescription".

[T.L.]

I looked into it more and it seems it is also a prescription drug here in the US too. However although it's approved by the FDA as a drug, it is and can be sold as a suppliment as well. So might want to check into it, chances are they might still sell it as a suppliment over there as well. Over here in the US they sell it at some health food stores and such.  If you do find it don't take it everyday because it has a half-life of 48 hours, which is why people will only take it every 3-4 days. Otherwise you can build up a tolerance to it and it wont have the same effects. Another thing you might want to look at is in 2006 the FDA put out a warning regarding it as well (regarding predisposed people to a certain condition). So if I were you, I'd only use it like once a week.

[Panthau]

This is interesting. So it seems that all these spiritual training leads just to more
dmt in our brain. So its just a technical thing to experience an OBE.

Qoute something i found through google:

...IT'S CALLED QI...

A good, basic meditation to harness this energy is called the "Microcosmic Orbit" -- an old Taoist technique.

With each in breath, try to imagine/will the energy up your spine -- from your tailbone to the center of your brain, between and behind the eyebrows. And with each exhalation, imagine the energy flowing from the point between and behind the eyebrows, down the midline of your chest and abdomen to your perenium (the place between your shlong and your bung-hole). Repeat this cycle as many times as you can...

As you're performing the Microcosmic Orbit, have the energy pause/accumulate at a point midway along the length of your spine, and midway along the length of your chest and abdomen. This is the so-called "Heart chakra" point. Christ is sometimes depicted opening his robe with a gloing/blazing heart at this area on his chest.

Also concentrate on the energy you feel in your limbs, so as to make them feel weightless.

If done correctly, you should have a meditation-induced 5-MeO-DMT-like experience. And if a light appears before your eyes, try to absorb it into you....

Also: http://www.acutcmdetox.com/tryptophan2.html
and http://cacaoist.blog.com/1024870/

[T.L.]

Yes N, N. Dimethyltryptamin is found in blood from normal waking people, also 5-Meo DMT is in our blood as well. What is interesting to me is not only the presence of DMT in our blood, but that it is found in people while awake and physically active. The reason is this is interesting to me is because DMT is the most powerful hallucinogen to humans, so even miniscule amounts of it is significant. What does this say about what we call "reality".

  If the brain uses DMT as fuel (which it does keeping in mind the brain purposely allows it to cross the "blood-brain barrier") to perceive reality, is this world we call reality only made possible by a hallucinogen? So what we would call psychodelic amounts of DMT is not really producing a powerful fake imaginery world but those amounts are in order to switch your perception to a higher level.

So your perception of reality all depends on the level of DMT in your system, normal levels you are able to perceive this world, and at varying levels different realities. What I would be interested in reading is if they find something to kill off DMT production in the body (temporarily of course) and the effects that would have of that persons perception.

[Panthau]

Yes N, N. Dimethyltryptamin is found in blood from normal waking people, also 5-Meo DMT is in our blood as well. What is interesting to me is not only the presence of DMT in our blood, but that it is found in people while awake and physically active. The reason is this is interesting to me is because DMT is the most powerful hallucinogen to humans, so even miniscule amounts of it is significant. What does this say about what we call "reality".

  If the brain uses DMT as fuel (which it does keeping in mind the brain purposely allows it to cross the "blood-brain barrier") to perceive reality, is this world we call reality only made possible by a hallucinogen? So what we would call psychodelic amounts of DMT is not really producing a powerful fake imaginery world but those amounts are in order to switch your perception to a higher level.

So your perception of reality all depends on the level of DMT in your system, normal levels you are able to perceive this world, and at varying levels different realities. What I would be interested in reading is if they find something to kill off DMT production in the body (temporarily of course) and the effects that would have of that persons perception.

Yeah, that´d be totaly interesting!

I´d rather think that we just perceive a certain degree of apperception. So if dmt is responsible for this
degree, then more or less of it just changes the "angle" and not the reality itself.

[T.L.]

Yes that's a different way to say it, but exactly what I mean. I may just give galantamine a try (carefully) and see if the onset of vibrations is any quicker than I can already achieve. When I do so I'll note any differences if there are any for me. It would be interesting for me if I've never had an obe before that way I could know if it was the aid helping me, but oh well. If there are any differences I'm sure I'll be able to spot them.

[Fourthdimension]

Thank you all for your reply and suggestions.

t.l you said the dream herb gave you promising results. Could you explain a little more like what happened when you took it and was it instant and what techniques you used please.

Also can you suggest any place on the net that i can get the dream herb without been ripped off lol

Why dont we just take tablets of dmt to produce more of it rather than taking other chemicals to produce more dmt

is dmt available to buy?

you know like when a man takes steroids how his testicles stop producing hormones becuase he is putting them in his body manually.do you think the same happens with dmt or any suppliments thats been mentioned and wat the effect would be.

and thanx panthau for the meditation am gonna try it now.

i know what you mean its like the world we live in is a distorted perception
you know when i first started learning about this i compared it to the matrix with neo in metephorically of course lol and it really is like that just a distortion of perception and ignorance.

anyways cheers for the replies guys

[redblackmask]

No, the world is not just distorted perception, this physical dimensions is a complete illusion. We basically live our whole lives here in our brains. We are not actually seeing distorted perceptions, rather a complete illusion and we live inside our brains.

And ForuthDimension, you don't want to try DMT. Trust me. It fucks you up. Try to achieve things naturally, taking the shortcut will not earn you anything in the long run. I know you are curious about things man and thats ok but trust me, when you achieve a state you have wanted to achieve naturally, it feels MUCH more better and real.

The only drug I would take if I were you is Marijuana, and that's just to open your mind a bit. I don't think even marijuana should be used for metaphysical purposes because again you're using drugs to achieve an altered state and that's not right.

[T.L.]

"Why dont we just take tablets of dmt to produce more of it rather than taking other chemicals to produce more dmt

is dmt available to buy?"


Because although DMT is in our bodies, in all other mammals, and most plants... it has been made illegal in most countries. So the very chemical that may be responsible for us dreaming at night, and perhaps the chemical our brains use to perceive the physical world is outlawed. It's very odd I know. We can thank the united nations (league of nations) for that.

"t.l you said the dream herb gave you promising results. Could you explain a little more like what happened when you took it and was it instant and what techniques you used please."

I used calea zacatechichi the original way (making it into a tea, and smoking a cigarette made of it). Now keep in mind this herb does not "get you high" at all, no effects. What it does is increase the amount of REM sleep you experience. I did not make an attempt with a technique just did this, went to sleep. When I hit REM sleep it seemed I was just zapped into full awareness. Also I agree about the DMT thing, not that it "f's you up", as I wouldn't consider a chemical in our body a thing that could harm you. However it's highly illegal (even though it shouldn't be so more legal studies can be performed, without jumping through the years of hoops strassman had to).

  However in my theory the more one uses certain techniques, such as meditation or practicing going deeper and deeper before sleep occurrs... triggers the brain into making more of its own endogenous DMT allowing us to have the experiences we do. I believe there is nothing wrong with experimentation as long as whatever you find that works, you do not use as a crutch, and as long as you are not harming your body..etc. The place I got Calea Z. was Iamshaman.com. Heed warning if you buy the dried herb to make a tea out of, it is one of the most bitter plants on earth. They also sell it in pills you can just take instead of making it into a tea. Which I would suggest as it takes a strong stomach to hold the tea down. Anyway as I mentioned dont let it become a crutch, however if used properly you can use it as a learning aid. Good luck.

[Fourthdimension]

thanx again mate.

i mean cannabis is outlawed but people can still get some to smoke without been jailed

so there must be places you can get dmt.
what is dmt's  "street name" if you dont mind me asking

and if it was legalised do you think taking it directly would have any effect on trying to obe

thanx mate

[Fourthdimension]

also t.l i m not sure wat to buy on that website

the dream herb is a mixture whilst as calea zacatechichi is a single herb
and that herb can be bought in diffrent forms such as dry root and leaf lmao
i can get it in diffrent amount to froom 1 , 3 gram and a bulk aswell

what would you recomend

and with the latest credit crunch am not sure how my money will be exchanged from pounds to dollars lol

what would you advise lol

[T.L.]

I understand what you mean by pot seems to be tolerated a certain bit, in that small amounts will only get you a small fine (in some states this is not so). However if you have DMT penalties can be much harsher, of course once they figure out what it is. DMT is not a well known drug to most people, it doesn't really have a street name, nor would you want to buy it on the street. Most likely the cops would think you have crack on you because the crystals when not completely purified sometimes have a yellow tinge. When you asked if DMT would have an effect on an obe attempt, yeah it seems to force an obe into other realms... so taking enough of it wouldnt really enable you to stay in what most people call the real time zone, you just end up else where. In it's smaller doses that dont force perception of a different world, will produce very strong and intense vibrations.  As for Calea Z. I suggest you buy the capsules (which are extracts) so that you dont have to go through with drinking the tea, like I said it is the most bitter plant and it took all my while to keep it down. Here's the link: http://www.iamshaman.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductUID=2013&ProductCode=CAZ-C6  check the shipping policies for overseas to make sure they will ship to you. This company is located in Chicago, Il. So if they do ship to you it may take a few weeks Im sure.

[Fourthdimension]

thanx mate

and if sum one bought it on the street am sure it would be mixed with cracki so thats bad and unwanted and they probally would nt be able to get pure dmt.

do u think taking dmt would induce an obe

am going to bed i ll reply more later lol

night night
and thanx

[T.L.]

"do u think taking dmt would induce an obe"

Absolutely. From the research I've done, and everything I read about the experiences one undergoes I believe it to be the initiating force in most naturally induced obes. Most subjects in a DMT study mentioned "I felt very intense vibrations" or variations of the same thing, also they heard with the vibrations, buzzing, high pitched whines, humming. If I were just to read the accounts of a DMT experience without knowing it was a DMT induced experience, I would think I was reading a normal out of body experience account. All the symptoms mentioned before they experienced "other realms" are very classic pre-cursors to the obe state, and the same exact pre-cursors I experience before an OBE.

[Fourthdimension]

Hi T.l

T.l i ve ordered this dream herb but the website never said wether its legal in my country and never gave me any idea of how long it will take to get delivered via air mail.

do i use it like choline and only take it once every few days so i dont build resistance or do i take it every night lol

[T.L.]

   Well I have no reason to believe you'd build up tolerance to it. But like many things the body adapts very quickly so it's possible to become tolerant to anything. I used it a few days in a row with success and didn't notice building up a tolerance to it. This herb has very few noticeable physical side effects and does not get a person high, so no it's not illegal. Studies done on the herb show that it increases time spent in REM sleep in most who used it. So what you want to do is try to make your REM cycle be as close to the physically waking state as possible. Normally the sleep cycles are such that when you go to sleep you spend the most time in deep sleep within the first few hours of sleeping with short periods of REM. Near the end of your sleep you spend the most time in REM. So when before you use Calea Z. Go to sleep for a few hours first, set your alarm then get up and take the right dose which I believe is 2 pills. Wait a few minutes, perhaps about 15 minutes or so for it to start working it's way into your system.

   Then lay down and make your attempt. I can not compare it to galantamine because I haven't used galantamine before, however I had some good results with it even when I believed it wouldn't do anything. As far as shipping goes I can not tell you how long it will take. I ordered from this place because it was recommended by a friend as a reputable place (which I found out it is a very reliable website) and they are located the next state over from me and only took 2 days for orders to reach me. Since you are overseas I would think it would take around a week and a half to two weeks. These days though that all relies upon customs and that kind of sh*t. I'd be interested in knowing what your results are, so once you get them and give it a try or two pm me and let me know how it's going. Good luck man.

[Fourthdimension]

Thanx mate i ll let you know

one week am gonna use the calea and then the next am gonna stop the calea and use choline and then the week after start calea again
and that way i see if cholines any good

does that sound a bad idea or good?

thanx for your help

[T.L.]

I don't see anything wrong with experimenting. Or I could be a total hypocrite and say no? Heh.

[Fourthdimension]

lol but have you ever thought that some herbs and physical aids might take time to work mabye a few weeks to get it though your body and so by stopping the dosage it could be a bad thing also by taking another  drug it could counter act the previous one taking or have adverse effects lmao

[Panthau]

why dont u just smoke a pot of dmt
seems the same effect as oob, just a little more...extrem

[T.L.]

   Well I mentioned here before that after all of my experiences, and the research I read on DMT suggests that DMT (in part) is why we are able to achieve an obe. A natural release of it seems to initiate the vibrations, mind/body disassociation, and we end up half of the time in what most call the RTZ. If more is release we are able to perceive other really interesting places. It seems the more you have in your system at anyone time the weirder the place you end up in, the more abstract. What I pointed out before is that anytime during your waking life you can find DMT in the blood of a person who is physically active/awake.

  So it seems it also enables us not to just perceive other realms of reality but also this physical world in which we live while we are awake. If a person would say so it is a hallucinogen however endogenous that lets you get out of the body then it's a hallucination. Well just keep in mind it also is partly responsible for us being able to perceive this physical reality as well, so what does that say about our reality? Trust me if it was legal I'd experiment with it. Because Im able to get out I would like to see and feel the precursors myself, other than just reading about it and researching it. As far as I can tell the major DMT plants (keep in mind all plants have DMT in then, just varying amounts) are not controlled and can be easily bought. Psychotria viridis (for dmt) and B. Caapi (for maoi) the two plants that a shaman would combine to create ayuhausca (DMT  containing tea) can also be bought legally. Some countries have upheld that making ayuhausca does not constitute as a DMT extraction/preparation therefore legal.

  However I do not know if this holds true in the united states or not, but I know they both can be bought legally in the united states depending on amounts Im sure. However I don't know if that appeals to me because smoking DMT which lasts for two minutes (the major effects) is a nice short duration. I don't know if Id want to drink ayuhausca and have those effects last in the length of hours, one can only take so much of this kind of experience in one sitting.  Right now Im just content on going ahead and experimenting with galantamine and choline, whenever I find it around here. I'm in no hurry to get my hands on a DMT preparation since I can already get out, even though I've had a dry spell lately.

[Panthau]

Hehe, it seems in our nature that we always want to get more/further. Id be happy
if id get out someday, the next step would be to get out frequently and after that... dmt?

A trip that lasts several hours shouldnt be made alone, and also not with some self-brewed cocktail,
so i can understand your decision.
If i would be interested in dmt, id just get it and try it. Its not such a big deal where i live
(austria, europe). Chances to get cought are very small and even then id not go to jail for only self usage.
However, im afraid of drugs in some way. I took lsd and dope when i was younger and had some very healthy
problems with stretched dope. Still it sounds fascinating when reading about dmt experiences, im still reading
the book from dr.strassmann.

Cant wait to hear if those substances which you talk about work for you guys