I am beginning to think this drug may be my best chance for an OBE. I just get kundalini experiences when i try to OBE the normal way. So have anyone tried it ? How was it. Did you meet anyone/anything. intelligent`?
To bad they made it one of the most banned drugs ever. Espesially since i hear its side effect free(since its in our bodies naturally).
Drugs are not recommended to induce OBE, you need to be IN CONTROL of your mind and body. Besides, drugs are a no no :-P
~astraladdict
You don't need drugs to have OOBEs. Besides, you will have more control inducing them naturally. Remember, the brain produces enough DMT for these experiences. The most likely place would be the pineal as its enzymes have potential to produce psychedelic compounds. Foods rich in tryptophan aid in the making of tryptamines. Our biological reservoir for hallucinogenic compounds is enough...also, trips from exogenous DMT are short-lived.
Using drugs gets you ending up looking like Summerlanders' avatar. ;)
LOL ;D
Quote from: Ryan_ on July 17, 2011, 19:06:14
Using drugs gets you ending up looking like Summerlanders' avatar. ;)
Hey that's his face!! lol
~astraladdict
It is. It really is.
Thanx will try trypthofan suplements then. Its not banned yet.
Just eat stuff like cheese...it's quite rich in it. Milk is also good. Or, if you are lactose-intolerant...yoghurt.
Sometimes I mix cheese with banana. Bananas are quite rich in serotonin, a tryptamine.
Then you have galantamine. This one is OOBE-friendly. But try not to rely so much on supplements. You want to be able to induce when you run out. Then you'll need placebos if you don't feel confident that you can induce without taking anything. ;D
Drugs will not induce OBEs sometimes they do but only randomly plus the experiences would not be the same if your out of body and tripping.
Tripping is a whole experience itself n_n
I don't need drugs to get high, i have meditation
~astraladdict
Quote from: Jon_88 on July 17, 2011, 17:01:33
I am beginning to think this drug may be my best chance for an OBE. I just get kundalini experiences when i try to OBE the normal way. So have anyone tried it ? How was it. Did you meet anyone/anything. intelligent`?
To bad they made it one of the most banned drugs ever. Espesially since i hear its side effect free(since its in our bodies naturally).
DMT is just a tool just like phasing/astral projection are in my opinion. People have preconditioned conceptions about drugs because the world they live in says they are a no no. While I believe that some drugs do hinder one's ability to open up the world and learn, DMT in my opinion is one of the most beneficial "drugs" to exist. It is illegal in the U.S. and most other countries but I happen to be from Brazil where ayahuasca has been used for hundreds of years and people don't really look at it with such close-minded skepticism as they do in most other places. I have smoked DMT a few times, and also drank ayahuasca multiple times and it is one of the most mind-opening experiences that I believe to exist here. Like all other tools though, there comes a point when it is no longer needed. I wish more people were open to the wonders of DMT, but like most people on here will tell you (and I wholeheartedly agree) substances that are used to expand awareness while beneficial very easily become a crutch. These substances should be used to give you a feel of expanded "states" for you to become familiar with, but you must learn to walk without the crutch eventually. The same goes for phasing/astral projection etc. Eventually you must learn to get rid of that crutch as well.
Quote from: Summerlander on July 17, 2011, 20:01:01
Sometimes I mix cheese with banana. Bananas are quite rich in serotonin, a tryptamine.
I eat like 8 bananas a day. :-P
Psychedelics can be useful tools IMO. The first time I did mushrooms it really opened me up to the possibilities of the mind. As far as DMT goes your not going to have an experience anything like a sober OBE/lucid dream. Ketamine is probably the best bet for that, although I'm only speaking from second hand knowledge with that... I don't use any drugs anymore because I've came to realize, for myself, that you have much more control and opportunity when you enter these experiences with a clear and focused mind. Always properly research anything you put in your body.
Quote from: c0sm0nautt on July 17, 2011, 23:20:06
I eat like 8 bananas a day. :-P
As far as DMT goes your not going to have an experience anything like a sober OBE/lucid dream.
debatable my friend.
Here have a read about DMT
http://astralviewers.com/random-chat/i've-just-now-decided/msg57259/?topicseen#new
It's no where near the same experience.
Very different indeed.
Quote from: dotster on July 17, 2011, 23:09:27
DMT is just a tool just like phasing/astral projection are in my opinion. People have preconditioned conceptions about drugs because the world they live in says they are a no no. While I believe that some drugs do hinder one's ability to open up the world and learn, DMT in my opinion is one of the most beneficial "drugs" to exist. It is illegal in the U.S. and most other countries but I happen to be from Brazil where ayahuasca has been used for hundreds of years and people don't really look at it with such close-minded skepticism as they do in most other places. I have smoked DMT a few times, and also drank ayahuasca multiple times and it is one of the most mind-opening experiences that I believe to exist here. Like all other tools though, there comes a point when it is no longer needed. I wish more people were open to the wonders of DMT, but like most people on here will tell you (and I wholeheartedly agree) substances that are used to expand awareness while beneficial very easily become a crutch. These substances should be used to give you a feel of expanded "states" for you to become familiar with, but you must learn to walk without the crutch eventually. The same goes for phasing/astral projection etc. Eventually you must learn to get rid of that crutch as well.
I agree with everything you said here. There is nothing dangerous about DMT. Alcohol can be more dangerous. The brain hungers for DMT...FACT! The brain produces its own DMT...FACT!
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_book_reviews/dmt_the_spirit_molecule-t33244.0.html
@ c0sm0nautt: Ketamine is nasty. Stay away from it.
Most psychodelics tend to be among the "safer" drugs, since you can't generally overdose or be poisoned (you need to ingest literally impossible quanties of LSD to overdose from it- no one has managed 1/100th the amount).
That said, you still run risks. You need responsible "spotters" around you, since you will not maintain control, and will potentially become a danger to yourself or others in possible delusional states.
Beyond that, the long-term consequences of hallucinogens are not known at all, really, and are incredibly diffcult to isolate and study. There are many cases of pscychotic episodes after "bad trips" or particularly high dosages- DMT trippers included.
If you really insist on proceding however, DMT is one of the the more accepted shamanistic rites, with a traditional support system. Ayahuasca rituals still occur in Brazil and some exported groups in the U.S., if that is within your reach.
DMT is powerful tool, but perhaps you are also underestimating what can be achieved merely with long-session meditations. I would say that is the safest and most fool-proof method for naturally exploring your consciousness.
QuoteThat said, you still run risks. You need responsible "spotters" around you, since you will not maintain control, and will potentially become a danger to yourself or others in possible delusional states.
The same thing can be said about cigarettes and alcohol. The best thing to do is to take these substances moderately or not at all. I'm pretty sure that if I overindulge in other things like bacon sandwiches, there will be repercussions.
Quote from: Summerlander on July 18, 2011, 12:21:25
The same thing can be said about cigarettes and alcohol. The best thing to do is to take these substances moderately or not at all. I'm pretty sure that if I overindulge in other things like bacon sandwiches, there will be repercussions.
No one is debating that. But saying that DMT has no risks is simply not true. And this is coming from a psychedelic advocate.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/viewpoll.php?Poll=9011
QuoteQuote
That said, you still run risks. You need responsible "spotters" around you, since you will not maintain control, and will potentially become a danger to yourself or others in possible delusional states.
The same thing can be said about cigarettes and alcohol. The best thing to do is to take these substances moderately or not at all. I'm pretty sure that if I overindulge in other things like bacon sandwiches, there will be repercussions.
But then, I am not advocating cigarrettes or alcohol. Alcohol is a terribly dangerous substance regardless of what box our society places it in. I never said either of those were without risks, or that a person would be wise to use either, so they are beyond the the scope of the idea here.
I agree that moderation is key, but with hallucinogens, which are such a taboo in our culture that no one has any experience with them to guage, and with other complicating factors, such as the fact that most of them are derived from plants and fungi (allowing the concentration of psychoactive agents to vary wildly from specimen to specimen), there is often no way for an initiate to know exactly what dosage is "moderate", or what effects they should expect at what point per dosage level. It is damn obvious how to you when you have eaten 5 too many bacon sandwhiches, but how many mushrooms are too many? How much do you weigh? How big are they? How "ripe" are they? What strain are they? Are they psilocybin-based, or something else? You see, there is really no way to account for all the factors at once- there is only so much control you can have. It is good to advocate moderation, but there needs to be an index to go by. With hallucinogens, you are generally in the dark about that, and don't really know what level you have ingested except in retrospect. That is why it is essential for those who engage in these activities to absolutely respect the substances they are dealing with, and to practice within a seasoned and responsible support group.
I think there are contexts in which a person can practice the meaningful spiritual use of psychoactives, and be surrounded by people who know the territory, but you cannot separate the act from the inherent risks. I am not saying don't do it, but I am saying know what you are getting into, and consider your reasons.
As far as mushrooms go, you can be smart about it and follow proper identification procedures, or better yet grow them yourself. For psilocybe cubensis, there really is no toxic level. You'd have to eat your body weight in mushrooms.
before you read on, please note that i have not tried DMT. my understanding of the drug has come from reading Rick Strassman's book DMT: The Spirit Molecule and research at dmt-nexus (i highly suggest looking into both).
i have heard studies quoted that say DMT has a much better success rate at curing heroin/cocaine/alcohol addiction than conventional treatments -up to an 80% success rate, IIRC. from my research i believe this is due to the powerful insights gained from the experience. while participants experience an OBE-like state, it is more akin to a near-death experience (at high doses). even those proficient in LSD and Psilocybin use find the effects of DMT much more profound than those drugs, and many who use those drugs recreationally will stop taking DMT after one trip. IMO, this is because DMT shows the experiencer the way things really are when you are stripped of your ego. your ego is an incredibly clever mechanism that rationalizes, justifies or flat out hides all your actions that run contrary to your moral beliefs. so, without your ego to protect you from the truth, you are forced to see yourself, the world and your place in it without bias. for many of us that realization is brutally honest and painful, hence the heroin addict drops their addiction -i have a friend who traveled to south america to sort out their own problems through ayahuasca treatments in the 80's, before i knew what DMT was.
in light of my view on DMT i definitely would not suggest it as a means to achieve an OOBE. i think it might be incredibly valuable as a source of self-exploration, provided the participant approaches it humbly with respect and the correct motives.
you also mentioned that you have had kundalini risings while trying to project; this very much interests me because it's the first time i've heard of anyone else experiencing that. when it first happened to me i didn't know what it was; it also happened a few times during meditation, although less powerfully. i would like to compare notes if you've documented your experiences.
Quote from: c0sm0nautt on July 18, 2011, 12:46:47
No one is debating that. But saying that DMT has no risks is simply not true. And this is coming from a psychedelic advocate.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/viewpoll.php?Poll=9011
Sure, but I don't think it's the drug that can harm you...it is yourself. It all depends on whether you are mentally stable or not besides the amount you consume. A particular dose might have different effects on different individuals. Just like alcohol. I'm merely pointing out that if you are gonna tell people not to take DMT, then you might as well tell them not to drink alcohol...do you see where I'm coming from? so what's so dangerous about DMT? What's the fuss? I'll tell you what is...it is the fact that the media has portrayed psychedelics as horror drugs before when it was actually the people who were not taking them responsibly. The government then outlaws them with the intention of reassuring the public and reducing paranoia.
Quote from: pondini on July 18, 2011, 15:18:42
IMO, this is because DMT shows the experiencer the way things really are when you are stripped of your ego. your ego is an incredibly clever mechanism that rationalizes, justifies or flat out hides all your actions that run contrary to your moral beliefs. so, without your ego to protect you from the truth, you are forced to see yourself, the world and your place in it without bias. for many of us that realization is brutally honest and painful, hence the heroin addict drops their addiction -i have a friend who traveled to south america to sort out their own problems through ayahuasca treatments in the 80's, before i knew what DMT was.
BINGO! I couldn't agree more with this. I felt this when I took salvia. I was lost and it really had an impact on me. It made me think what is the point in anything. For some this is too hard to handle. It goes back to what I was saying. It agrees more with some then others because we are different. It's like me enjoying red wine but my wife can't stand it or handle it. She prefers Lambrini.
QuoteAs far as mushrooms go, you can be smart about it and follow proper identification procedures, or better yet grow them yourself.
That is hard too, however. There are so many variants and look-alikes among mushroom species, and they can all look so very similar, morphologically identical in fact, that even highly trained mycologists cannot identify a mushroom on sight with any sureness (they have a few guesses usually, but nothing definitive)- they often need to rely on chemical analysis.
So if you are thinking of looking for them in the woods, you are playing with fire, based on the number of highly toxic look-alikes. Cultivating a positively identified species is probably the only way to be sure.
after reading this post, i decided to do a little research and found that DMT generally seems to be more of a drug that shows people how truly connected they are to everything in existence. you may experience something different though. BUT, i also read that DMT is actually released during sleep-paralysis & REM sleep. you should try inducing an OBE soberly for a month or two first. chances are you'll probably experience a spontaneous OBE within that time-frame. i still can't induce one from an awake state, but i've had numerous spontaneous, conscious experiences since. once you experience it, just remember your body was naturally releasing DMT during so you're pretty much "tripping" naturally :). if you DO decide to take it, make sure you're straight in the head, otherwise you may face mental complications coming off the drug. it won't completely prevent a bad trip from occurring, but it will highly decrease the chances of it. take this precaution for EVERY drug. i've even seen someone have something similar to a bad shroom trip off marijuana. just sayin. be careful!
I agree with most of what you said. On the mental complications, it is not the drug, it is the individual and their frame of mind at the time. The drug merely brings to the surface what is already there. As for DMT being linked to OOBEs and being "natural trips"...that's what I've been saying all along...
8-)
I've referenced this analogy before.
Achieving OBE/AP is like climbing a mountain.
When you do it through dedicated practice, you learn the topography of the path like the back of your hand and could navigate the way "with your eyes closed", to the peak and back down the mountain.
Using hallucinogens is like strapping on a jet pack and shooting to the top. You get there, but you have no idea how you got there or how to get back down. You didn't learn anything along the way so the context of the experience is completely different. That's not to say that this experience is bad or wrong, it will just be different. However, there is also the chance of completely over-shooting the summit and winding up on the other side of the mountain (which could refer to you being in a completely different mental context after the experience, i.e. psychologically pathological....crazy).
Either way is valid because you're still getting there. However, hiking up the mountain provides you with more details and contextualizes the experience so that you have a better understanding of what it is to be on the top of the mountain. It also provides you with a "map" so that you might return to the summit anytime you choose to do so, not just when your jet pack has been refueled and tuned-up. In addition, the map you gained from hiking allows you to retain what you gathered at the summit and again, it puts it in proper context because "the journey back down" provides you with the means to assimilate the new knowledge.
A lot of you are crazy/confused.. DMT Is a forced OBE at a decent dose..
Call it a "drug" or whatever you want, we release a certain amount of DMT every day of our lives during sleep.
Of this I have no doubt ^^
QuoteCall it a "drug" or whatever you want, we release a certain amount of DMT every day of our lives during sleep.
But calling it a substance endogenous to the human body does nothing to alter the claim that it is unsafe under some conditions.
We all have reasonable amounts of adrenaline from time to time, but a not-so-very-large injection of it will give you a heart attack.
The same with acetylcholine and other neurotransmitters... flooding them into the body may create temporary catatonic states or worse.
So to say that DMT is released naturally does not really say much in this context.
whilst on the subject of drugs, all will be suprised at this but those at the top top of the drug world i mean the top (worlds biggest producers/distributors) all agree that the NEW way of drug to be is the way to go, this will erradicate the so called problems associated with all drugs, and at the same time generate/create/teach people to be more aware of the minds abilities and it's workings, their will be a transitional period for the take over of all drugs...
this will not be forced(ish)(supply only probs they will have) on anyone the New Way as it's something that they the user must learn/experience themselfs (same effects-if anything better), all will follow eventually as it's a transitional period for where this world is going to go...
as their is an economy in more ways than one with drugs as it builds various processes as a whole/part for the build of the mind/economy, most leading authoritie figures are fully aware of this, it does more good than harm for those in the know of it's workings, please dont bother argueing this with me, as i know people die from this, i too know people that have left us because of drugs...
leading drug producers/distributors are mind gurus too some of the better leading mind people in the world today (and pass), this is why the drug world is so successful, they have a massive input/development of the mind as a whole/part for all, it's the economy of the minds build...
by NO means do i say have drugs to develope YOUR mind, as drugs over all have an impact as a whole more so than the individual on average...
good luck
love all
Quote from: NickisDank on July 20, 2011, 20:29:31
A lot of you are crazy/confused.. DMT Is a forced OBE at a decent dose..
Call it a "drug" or whatever you want, we release a certain amount of DMT every day of our lives during sleep.
Not necessarily denying that, but it's still not the same as a controlled and meditatively induced OBE.
Indeed. DMT may very well induce a type of OBE. But read a DMT trip report and an OBE report and you have two entirely different things. The latter being more controlled, remembered and dare I say useful? Shortcuts aren't always a good thing.\
From my research, people seem to get a lot more out of Ayahuasca than smoked DMT.
QuoteFrom my research, people seem to get a lot more out of Ayahuasca than smoked DMT.
I also have found that seems to be the case.
Which is part of why I suggest that if you are someone who wants to get involved with that stuff, and accept the risks, you do it within the context of one of the South American traditions, and their offshoots; they know the territory, and have a better idea about precautions and safety than random folk on the street, since they have codefied their techniques over centuries.
i agree that this stuff isn't for everyone. you need to crawl before you walk.
joe rogan recounts his DMT experience...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcqs9cDuN8
from what i've heard, salvia is similar to, but much weaker than DMT, yet look what it can do...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb76bpIWQPw
the best example of profound DMT experiences are at dmt-nexus (i think you have to register to read them, but it is definitely worth the effort) and in the documentary The Spirit Molecule.
Quote from: pondini on July 22, 2011, 16:30:02
from what i've heard, salvia is similar to, but much weaker than DMT, yet look what it can do...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb76bpIWQPw
similar in that it is a hallucinogen sure, but after smoking DMT your body is put to sleep, you do not move. for something like this to happen on DMT someone would have to come pick you up and throw you out of the window. so yes this could happen if you surround yourself with people that get rowdy :-)
you know...galatamine works & it's legal...just FYI
I just today watched a fascinating youtube video named The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock. He speaks of DMT and Pineal Gland in a very informative way. He has truly put a lifes research into this subject. A must see for all the great science minds of this site. The presentation goes into Astral Travel as well. The presentation has 10 nine minute plus parts to it. He is also about to release a brand new video on youtube named Convergence sometime this month.
Convergence is a Hollywood movie that won't be out for some time.
Some people believe that drugs are gateways to other dimensions. Drugs such as DMT and Salvia and LSD and others. really, these just get your brain hallucinating and your imagination gets so vivid that your brain cannot tell the difference between reality and its imagination. Trust me, DMT is one hell of a drug, but would not help you AP. Salvia on the other hand, was used by ancient americans to have visions and meet spirits believed to be associated with the astral. But you're best bet is to do it through means of meditation.
I actually want to try to ayahuasca. I have parent permission.. but they want to ask a doctor first if it's safe >.< FML! lol
~astraladdict
You are correct, Convergence is a movie to be released some time later on in the year. His new youtube video to be out by the end of the month is "The Source Field Investigations". It was filmed at the Boston Convergence and is now in post-production. This info comes straight from his most current blog, dated Friday, July 22nd 2011.
QuoteI just today watched a fascinating youtube video named The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock. He speaks of DMT and Pineal Gland in a very informative way. He has truly put a lifes research into this subject. A must see for all the great science minds of this site. The presentation goes into Astral Travel as well. The presentation has 10 nine minute plus parts to it. He is also about to release a brand new video on youtube named Convergence sometime this month.
You have to be really careful with people like Wilcock. He throws pretty much everything out there at once into the hall, free-for-all fashion; he also has a very bad habit of presenting suppositions and leaps of faith as facts. I am not saying some of the things he says are not true, but I think it is damn-near impossible that everything he says at once could be possibly all be true; therefore, every element of what he says must be suspect, and so I would only use him as a source of awareness of ideas, not support of any idea.
The Source Field Investigations is actually a book coming out in August.
Quote from: Landshark on July 23, 2011, 01:35:03
Some people believe that drugs are gateways to other dimensions. Drugs such as DMT and Salvia and LSD and others. really, these just get your brain hallucinating and your imagination gets so vivid that your brain cannot tell the difference between reality and its imagination. Trust me, DMT is one hell of a drug, but would not help you AP. Salvia on the other hand, was used by ancient americans to have visions and meet spirits believed to be associated with the astral. But you're best bet is to do it through means of meditation.
How can you tell the difference between a "hallucination" and reality? Why would DMT be a hallucination and AP not? DMT, like Salvia, was used by past cultures as well.
hay c0smo...
i have to give ya some advice regarding your signature that you kindly quoted from one of my post...
you see your going to make me look like you are one of my greatest fans, i cant have that, as i dont like fans...
so for you, i kindly remind people what you really thought of my post,
"Yea, I put that quote in my signature because I found it hilarious, not serious. - ether2"
could you please put a sarcastic comment after - ether2...
thanx for your co-operation :-)...
good luck
love all
Sure thing.
Quote from: ether2 on July 23, 2011, 11:16:54
you see your going to make me look like you are one of my greatest fans, i cant have that, as i dont like fans...
Awww for realz? There goes my plans for an ether2 fan club and subsequent newsletter/bumper sticker.
man, i just registed www.ether2rules.com too!!
screw you ether, i'm keeping the website.
:lol:
Quote from: personalreality on July 23, 2011, 13:13:39
man, i just registed www.ether2rules.com too!!
screw you ether, i'm keeping the website.
:lol:
>.< I actually clicked the link
~astraladdict
So did I.
dot dot dot
sigh
xD
~astraladdict
good job lol
Smoking DMT is nothing like a regular OBE. DMT puts you in another dimension completely. Monks spend their whole lives learning how to meditate themselves into the state DMT will put you in in 30 seconds. I've had about two astral projections that I can remember that have very closely resembled a DMT trip. It is another area of consciousness altogether.
Yeah people will say don't do drugs, but I think its because there is a war against our mind. The powers that be don't want you questioning what they tell you to think and hallucinogens will literally make you question what is actually important in your reality.
Ancient religions and peoples of the past had such a greater view on consciousness and i think its because the rituals with hallucinogens they had made them realize that we are all one.
The problem is today that people aren't taught anything about these types of "drugs" and end up abusing them.
Research people like Terrance McKenna, Graham Hancock, Rick Strassman, and Daniel Pinchbeck. In my opinion they are modern day shamans that closed minded people can learn a lot from.
I was watching a TV show and supposedly there's a lost ancient drug that the Hindu religion used.. Not sure if it was DMT based though.
Quote from: astralp on July 25, 2011, 04:59:32
Yeah people will say don't do drugs, but I think its because there is a war against our mind. The powers that be don't want you questioning what they tell you to think and hallucinogens will literally make you question what is actually important in your reality.
couldn't agree more. there was never any DMT scourge that caused its criminalization; i haven't even heard of any isolated events that would have vindicated its criminalization. all indications are that the LSD movement that helped bring the vietnam war to an end scared the 'powers that be' so much that they criminalized
all hallucinogens, including DMT. to this day it is more illegal than heroin and cocaine. for reasons unknown to me salvia escaped the edict -as far as i know it is still legal in my state.
but more to the point, these drugs -in the right hands- provide valuable insights to what is really important in life. things like power, greed, consumerism and controlling others no longer hold importance. an enlightened society is what the guys that control the game -the rich and powerful- fear the most. it threatens their comfort, therefor they are not going to let it happen.
Quote from: c0sm0nautt on July 23, 2011, 09:13:14
How can you tell the difference between a "hallucination" and reality? Why would DMT be a hallucination and AP not? DMT, like Salvia, was used by past cultures as well.
Good point. In fact, our perception of reality (the waking state) could be a very elaborate DMT-induced hallucination which is representational of the external world nonetheless.
Nothing you see is how it is. Your eyes don't see what they really see. You see what your brain interprets.
~astraladdict
I think people say don't do drugs because its like russian roulette. You never know if the person can handle it and not turn to mush brains or get completely addicted....
I would hazard a guess that the below would be a correct assumption, and possibly even the truth.
Quote from: Summerlander on July 25, 2011, 15:01:04
Good point. In fact, our perception of reality (the waking state) could be a very elaborate DMT-induced hallucination which is representational of the external world nonetheless.
Quote from: pondini on July 25, 2011, 14:52:13
couldn't agree more. there was never any DMT scourge that caused its criminalization; i haven't even heard of any isolated events that would have vindicated its criminalization. all indications are that the LSD movement that helped bring the vietnam war to an end scared the 'powers that be' so much that they criminalized all hallucinogens, including DMT. to this day it is more illegal than heroin and cocaine. for reasons unknown to me salvia escaped the edict -as far as i know it is still legal in my state.
but more to the point, these drugs -in the right hands- provide valuable insights to what is really important in life. things like power, greed, consumerism and controlling others no longer hold importance. an enlightened society is what the guys that control the game -the rich and powerful- fear the most. it threatens their comfort, therefor they are not going to let it happen.
Yep exactly. I cant find it for the life of me but I read somewhere on the internet about all the inventions that came from lsd. Sooooo many that have changed the way we live. The personal computer was an invention from lsd. I feel like the reason hallucinogens prompt so many inventions is because your mind literally thinks 1000 thoughts in the time it would normally take a sober mind to think 2 thoughts.
we are living in a huge time of change, there is no doubt about that. I think the more closed minded people will get left behind while the new consciousness of humans is learning more and more because of the open mindedness we have.
10 years ago people would have thought we were crazy for talking about astral projection, now it is a lot more excepted.
Even five years ago i remember trying to tell some friends about astral projection and they wouldnt even listen. Now when i talk about it people not only listen but want to do it themselves. I think 5 years from now its going to be common knowledge. Along with the benefits hallucinogens can teach a person about their own consciousness.
You think you have freedom now? You aren't even aloud to smoke a harmless doobie in your own home. Its all about to change. I can only hope.
the double-helix was perceived on lsd...
Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD
when he discovered the secret of life
http://www.miqel.com/entheogens/francis_crick_dna_lsd.html
My acid friends just became regular druggies, no inventions :(
Haha, reality samich.
Hee hee.
Quote from: Stookie_ on July 29, 2011, 11:11:55
My acid friends just became regular druggies, no inventions :(
probably because theyre in it for the high and not with the intent to invent.
A 2 hour video taliking about his book the Source Field Investigations can be seen here at http://www.youtube.com/v/nR-klTa1y54&fs=1&autoplay=1, I know David Wilcock has critics here but this video isn't about him and his ego, it's about OBE's, DMT and Consciousness. Very interesting video indeed.
Quote from: Lionheart on August 08, 2011, 16:03:08
A 2 hour video taliking about his book the Source Field Investigations can be seen here at http://www.youtube.com/v/nR-klTa1y54&fs=1&autoplay=1, I know David Wilcock has critics here but this video isn't about him and his ego, it's about OBE's, DMT and Consciousness. Very interesting video indeed.
To his credit, in every story there is probably, at least, a grain of truth. ;)
Thanks, I might kill some time tomorrow to watch this.
Quote from: Stillwater on July 29, 2011, 12:24:54
Haha, reality samich.
Yeah thats probably because they were never taught that hallucinogens are supposed to be used as medicine. A way to examine yourself spiritually and mentally. Kids these days have no idea of the proper way to do "drugs". They always use them recreationally.
Research people that use them to explore their own consciousness as medicine, like shamans or scientists.
edit: wrong quote, i was talking to the person who said their acid friends became druggies.
kids don't really have a chance from the get-go.
we have a "maintenance-type" psychiatric field these days, because psychiatrists are medical doctors before psychologists and they were taught to treat the mind like an MD treats the body - with a pill (or a stitch, a cast, an operation, etc.); this informs our whole society on how to handle mental states, whatever they may be.
you want to experience something different than normal consciousness? don't explore your mind! take a pill!
hooray drugs!
plus, doing drugs makes the cool kids like you.
QuoteYeah thats probably because they were never taught that hallucinogens are supposed to be used as medicine. A way to examine yourself spiritually and mentally. Kids these days have no idea of the proper way to do "drugs". They always use them recreationally.
Research people that use them to explore their own consciousness as medicine, like shamans or scientists.
Yeah, astralp, I was definitely not saying kids who use this substance or that will turn out to be losers, but rather just pointing out that it is not the fast track cheat-sheet path to being a balanced individual. With certain hallucinogens especially, I think there are opportunties for responsible users to glean insights; but then it is not like Timothy Leary would have you believe... you can't hand out LSD in the streets and hope to bring about a society full of cultured bodhisattvas.
I guess what it all really boils down to is perspective. We could all be put through the exact same experience with the same exact conditions yet no two of us would walk away from that experience having experienced the exact same thing, so why would hallucinogens be any different than this? My point here is, if you can open your mind to the possibilities that these substances offer and start to actually tune in to what is going on during the experience you will find yourself learning more and more about not only yourself but the nature of reality. Tripping is definitely not what I would call a "subtle" experience because it is not normal for us to experience this type of reality on a day to day basis but once you get past all of the feelings of grandeur/excitement/fear and the countless other overwhelming emotions you will experience, once you learn to tame those emotions and just observe and relax in the moment all of these "subtle" clues/ideas/thoughts start to manifest in all kinds of different ways. That voice inside your head (the one that most of you are reading this with inside your head right now) starts to become more focused, like it has propose, and that voice (which of course is just you) will start to come up with all kinds of crazy ideas about anything and everything that you could think up and all you have to do is observe (paying close attention to all sensory input) to learn. At this point I believe tripping turns into a useful learning tool as opposed to just a "hey this reality is not as solid as it seems, this is awesome let's get weird and party!" kind of drug, however this stage is also just a necessary step to start the learning experience because if you cannot come to terms with the fact that there are still a great number of things that we do not know about our reality then how could you expect to get any answers? I'm not saying that hallucinogens are required, I'm just saying that they are merely another path that leads to the same place. As for it being thought of as a "fast track cheat sheet path", like I said it's all a matter of perspective. I do not consider it to be cheating, rather simply taking the stairs instead of the escalator. In fact if you we're to get on an elevator and I was determined enough I could still run up the stairs and beat you if I put enough energy behind the intent. Slow and steady only wins the race if it is a long distance race. To a sprinter running the same distance as the long distance runner but cut up into a few shorter separate races, slow and steady will get you there, but they are not slow and steady runners, they are sprinters, and sprinting is how they intend to win the race. Some people learn better taking things in in large increments in short periods of time, others learn better at a slow and steady pace. Take a look at schools and colleges now, they have accelerated learning courses where they shove a lot of information into a short period of time, and then they have standard classes where it's a more steady paced course. No matter how alike we all are, we are all uniquely different and we all learn in our own unique ways. In a reality where it has been observed countless times by countless individuals that time itself is relative, I have a hard time accepting that because some people learn "faster" with these substances that it is considred cheating because what is time really, apart from just a movement in a perceived direction? And in the end does it really matter which path we take? Isn't a more important question what we do with the knowledge that we have gained through our experiences? For me personally I like to keep an open mind even about what path I take; sometimes it's the stairs, other times it's the escalator, other times it's the elevator and other times it's a rocket ship. For me personally I find my own personal balance in that I balance out my different paths and keep (and utilize) all options open for learning instead of dismissing some of them due to lack of acceptance/understanding. As long as something has been learned and is understood why would the amount of "time" it took to comprehend the information even be relevant? Time will only hinder you if you let it.
All the best,
dotster
Very well put Dotster. I recently started reading a book by terrence McKenna called Archaic Revival. He makes the point that different ancient cultures around the world have used psychedelic plants for thousands of years, and in recent times the knowledge of the wider reality these plants offer us has been completely silenced due to things like the Spanish Inquisition and and Salem Witch Trials and basically Christianity believing that these types of practices had to be works of the devil because they were never mentioned in the bible. He also mentions that we are finally now restarting our exploration of consciousness through the use of psychedelics and lucid dreaming(I don't think he even knew about astral projection) and that we are on the cusp of creating a new culture that is completely aware of this wider reality.
He mentions that this exploration is the "New World" and is basically untouched by any western beliefs. But we are changing that!