As I shared in Astral Chat, I just detoxed off of opiate replacement medication. I was worried for a long time that the medication was preventing me from projecting. Not only did it make me fall asleep easily when I was on a high dose, but I was also worried that it had some psychic and energetic effects. Nevertheless I was able to eventually project (for the first time) when I got to a low enough dose on the medication. I still have suspicions that it hampered my projection ability some.
Anyway, I am now off of the medication but I went through 2 weeks of opiate withdrawal and the symptoms haven't entirely gone away yet. I'm still really anxious and my heart rate and blood pressure are still relatively high when I don't take the blood pressure medicine I was prescribed. Naturally, I haven't been able to project and I was expecting that. My heart rate has been too high for me to relax enough, I mean I barely sleep.
I'm having some concerns though. I know this is probably an unusual situation and there probably aren't many people with experience in this area. But I was wondering if anyone has high blood pressure or some other ailment that they think may prevent them from projecting and if so have you been able to remedy the problem?
Also, I kicked and screamed but my doctor insisted that I take a mood drug, Zoloft. I am hugely anti-mood medication, I think they're zombie pills created to hamper spiritual expression. But, being dependent on opiates for a number of years causes your brain to stop producing neurotransmitters at your normal levels. The result is a lot of anxiety, depression and mood swings which can be detrimental to a recovering addict. It's those crappy moods and anxiety that often lead to us using again. So I agreed to take it for a couple of months, at least until I can start to get back to normal production levels. My question is, does anyone else take Zoloft and can you say whether or not it effects your ability to project? Have you projected before the Zoloft and after so you have a comparison? I suppose any mood drug experience would be helpful.
Have you tried looking into natural mood elevators??
I take the following herbs to stay energetic:
St. Johns Wort
Catuaba
Horny goat weed
Muira puama
Oat straw
Sarsaprilla
Tribulus
All these will send your testosterone skyhigh, which in turn lifts your mood and energy levels.
I'd try these before turning to synthetic, unnatural drugs. But hey, thats just me
I do take quite a few of those, but I am in a bit of an extreme situation.
My levels of serotonin and dopamine are ridiculously low. Lower than what one might consider normal for someone with a mood disorder. It's not even that they're so low that's the problem, it's that my brain has had agonists for these types of chemicals for a long time and so it stopped making them on its own in normal levels. I agree with you, like I said, I'm really anti-mood drug. I was kind of "beaten" into it.
Mood drugs are synthetic but in a situation like yours it's really the only option right? Better to take those then suffer the consequences if you don't, and at least it's only for a little while, nothing permanent.
I don't know anything about mood drugs and projection, so sorry I'm of no help, but I do hope you get better soon :oops:
Quote from: personalreality on March 26, 2010, 11:32:15
I do take quite a few of those, but I am in a bit of an extreme situation.
My levels of serotonin and dopamine are ridiculously low. Lower than what one might consider normal for someone with a mood disorder. It's not even that they're so low that's the problem, it's that my brain has had agonists for these types of chemicals for a long time and so it stopped making them on its own in normal levels. I agree with you, like I said, I'm really anti-mood drug. I was kind of "beaten" into it.
I do respect your honesty re: your drug problem though. I'm (originally) Dutch and we long ago realized its better to let drug-inclined users to just let them go their way instead of making criminals of them. Its done Dutch society well IMO.
USA is a basketcase when it comes to this, they still havent realized the same people that do drugs today, will be the same people that
do drugs once drugs been legalized tomorrow. Yet they insist on continuing this silly war :?
Some people report getting very vivid and even lucid dreams when using Zoloft. So you may find it could be a help rather than a hindrance...
I've had that effect of vivid dreams from other medications and I'm hoping that's what happens with this. But like I said, I'm very skeptical. I'm a bit of a conspiracy person (and conspiracy is just a subversive action, things done behind closed doors) and I just don't trust these types of meds, so it's worrying me.
I'll keep at it though. I think the biggest problem now is that my body is having to use soooo much energy to heal itself that it may be a little while before I've got good energy again. I'm still doing energy work, but it feels like it's all going to healing. On the plus side, one of the psychics I work with does this "health" touch thing, where she basically just reads the body's energy to find places that need attention. She said that I was one of the most energetically balanced people she had read in a while, my aura wasn't skewed to one side, it was nice and even. So I guess all this energy work does pay off.
CORRECTION:
I didnt mean legalize drugs, I meant decriminalize. Thats not the same thing.
In Holland you cannot be arrested for using drugs, only if you deal (large-scale) in them.
The money they save on war ond drugs they put into treatment programs if a user wants to enter one
Decriminalization here would basically entail a fine as opposed to jail time. They wouldn't put the money to treatment though. They would spend it on wars or some equally ridiculous pursuit. But if you think about the money they could rack up from those fines. Damn.
Quote from: personalreality on March 27, 2010, 15:16:12
Decriminalization here would basically entail a fine as opposed to jail time. They wouldn't put the money to treatment though. They would spend it on wars or some equally ridiculous pursuit. But if you think about the money they could rack up from those fines. Damn.
Fine revenue would be huge. And think of the money they save from decriminalization:
No DEA
Less court costs
Less prison cells
Less policing
Less crime (much of crime is drug-related, addicts trying to feed their habit)
In Holland they had to close jails because there werent enough criminals: http://www.nrc.nl/international/article2246821.ece/Netherlands_to_close_prisons_for_lack_of_criminals
Its win/win, but it'll probably never go through in my lifetime, its just not politically correct.
Maybe in the year 2100 when they realize how futile it all is.
BTW in Portugal they decriminalized and drug use actually went down
oops double post :-o
What about the crimes committed by drug addicts to support their habit?
What about taxpayer expense for health problem, and/or treatment for their addictions?
What about the poor slobs living on the street because of the monkey on their back?
You have to draw the line somewhere. The US's policies might not be perfect, but at least they are making an attempt.
The US government are the one's supplying the drugs. Then they charge you for treatment. They don't pay for addiction treatment. There are ways to get assistance, but its really hard and a lot of insurance companies don't cover addiction treatment, or they don't give enough coverage. No one is saying that people shouldn't be convicted for crime. The argument is that more resources should be spent on recovery than a drug war.
But it wont happen, the government makes too much money off of all this.
Quote from: personalreality on March 30, 2010, 08:47:43
The US government are the one's supplying the drugs. Then they charge you for treatment. They don't pay for addiction treatment. There are ways to get assistance, but its really hard and a lot of insurance companies don't cover addiction treatment, or they don't give enough coverage. No one is saying that people shouldn't be convicted for crime. The argument is that more resources should be spent on recovery than a drug war.
But it wont happen, the government makes too much money off of all this.
This has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever read.
Quote from: abadboy on March 30, 2010, 18:35:21
This has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever read.
Really??
Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT5MY3C86bk
Remember he was a cop, he ought to know
I was on zoloft once, and it made me really sleepy. I then switched to wellbutrin, and it didn't affect my OBEing at all. Now I'm on lexapro, and I my OBE's have almost stopped since being on it. I would say, wellbutrin is probably the best thing to be on, if you want something that won't hamper your OBEs. Zoloft might just make you fall asleep like it did for me.
thank you for answering my question. I knew someone around here had to have experience with this.
I take Zoloft and have been for several years. I've never noticed any adverse effects from it. It takes the edge off when things get stressful. I once tried to abrupty stop it and that was a mistake. If I decided to try and get off of it, I would wean myself off slowly. I've wondered if it may be the reason why I have never had a true OBE and only an occasional lucid dream. I may try to wean myself off and see if anything happends. I'll keep you updated.
And by the way, since this topic has creeped into this post, it is absolutely true that the government (CIA) controls the drug trade not just in the US, but around the world. Why isn't the military destrying opium fields in Afganistan? 90% of the world's heroin come out of there. There is so much evidence out there to support this fact that it is overwhelming. That's how the CIA gets cash to do their covert operations that the US congress would never want to have on record as funding. Not only are people waking up to their spiritual nature that we talk about on this board, but they are waking up to the false reality created by governments and the illuminati types around the world. The two go hand in hand. It's absolutly shocking to learn the truth. It's right there in front of you. Once you start connecting the dots, it all starts to make sense. And by it, I mean all of the BS in the world today.
Quote from: vipassana on March 31, 2010, 23:04:22
it is absolutely true that the government (CIA) controls the drug trade not just in the US, but around the world. Why isn't the military destrying opium fields in Afganistan? 90% of the world's heroin come out of there. There is so much evidence out there to support this fact that it is overwhelming. That's how the CIA gets cash to do their covert operations that the US congress would never want to have on record as funding
And they do it very intelligently, once in a while they make a big "bust" just to make it look good. It hits the newstands and makes the DEA look like they're doing their jobs. If people think thats just a stupid conspiracy story, they are being very naive
Quote from: Fresco on April 03, 2010, 12:58:47
And they do it very intelligently, once in a while they make a big "bust" just to make it look good. It hits the newstands and makes the DEA look like they're doing their jobs. If people think thats just a stupid conspiracy story, they are being very naive
See... the opposite can also be said.
If people think that it's real, then they're just huge conspiracy theorists.
The only fact here is that there are no facts.
Nobody can dispute that fact. LoL
There's intuition.
Xanth seems to be lacking in that department...
Quote from: kurtykurt42 on April 03, 2010, 22:09:54
Xanth seems to be lacking in that department...
Personal attacks now, Kurt? :/
Dude... despite what you think, I don't hate you. I'm not sure if you can wrap your head around that.
You've seriously gotta lose the ego buddy... it has no place on this forum.
It's not an attack it's an observation. I want you and everyone here to become better at astral projection, I really do. By pointing out the areas that we need to work on we can all improve our skills.
I'd like to apologize to Personalreality for this temporary de-railing.
Hopefully this can get back to the topic at hand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking
No dispute eh...
Quote from: cpt. picard on April 04, 2010, 02:34:25
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking
No dispute eh...
"
Various sources allege the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has been involved in several drug trafficking operations.
The CIA is accused of working with groups which it knew were involved in drug trafficking, so that these groups would provide them with useful intelligence and material support[1][2]."
I see no facts there.
This is why it's called a 'conspiracy theory'. :)
I find it to be honest quite shocking that there are people who are really so naive as to view wikipedia contents as irrefutable facts (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif). Almost as worse are the trolls who apparently still exist having not grown up for they are running around, squawking:
*conspriacy theory!* *conspiracy theory!* failing to partake in human adult level arguments.
Only a fool believes every conspiracy theory out there is true.
But an even bigger fool believes the govt never lies to its citizens.
Anywho, we're getting way off-topic. First my vibrations left me last week, then I got 2 days of REM during my trances and now the REM has stopped also. I wonder what my next stage will be :| :-P
Quote from: Fresco on April 04, 2010, 15:13:38
Anywho, we're getting way off-topic. First my vibrations left me last week, then I got 2 days of REM during my trances and now the REM has stopped also. I wonder what my next stage will be :| :-P
They probably haven't stopped... you're just not noticing the physical body input anymore. :)
Quote from: Xanth on April 04, 2010, 15:40:08
They probably haven't stopped... you're just not noticing the physical body input anymore. :)
I dont understand what you mean by that :?
You mean my body has loosened enough to the point where I cant feel the vibes anymore??
Funny how many words are put in my mouth just for questioning someone's preconcieved notions. :roll: You said it is undisputable, yet there is clearly a debate to the issue, I dont recall stating anything as pure fact, but much of what you guys are calling me childish over is documented historical facts. No wikipedia is not always completely factual, thats why theres a list of references and sources at the bottom of the article. As for being childish? Seems more childish when you refuse to accept the truth of some issues because of your fragile world view being altered, saying the government or government agencies have never particpated in illegal activity takes alot more faith then so called "conspiracy theories", a term which you seem to be using like a news corporation, to make your opposition look "crazy" based on their political views. Truly ignorant statements on this forum lately.
Quote from: Xanth on April 03, 2010, 22:40:50
Personal attacks now, Kurt? :/
Dude... despite what you think, I don't hate you. I'm not sure if you can wrap your head around that.
You've seriously gotta lose the ego buddy... it has no place on this forum.
Seems like you all could lose the ego as of late, if I dont like something Kurt is saying i dont respond, you Xanth, seem to be making a disproportionate amount of argumentative comments, and this forum does not feel like the open, accepting environment it once was.
Quote from: Fresco on April 04, 2010, 15:41:47
I dont understand what you mean by that :?
You mean my body has loosened enough to the point where I cant feel the vibes anymore??
hehe nono... I was referring to your REM events. :)
You're not noticing them anymore.
Vibrations aren't physical... you'll feel those whether you have physical body input or not.
Quote from: cpt. picard on April 04, 2010, 16:15:21
Funny how many words are put in my mouth just for questioning someone's preconcieved notions. :roll: You said it is undisputable, yet there is clearly a debate to the issue, I dont recall stating anything as pure fact, but much of what you guys are calling me childish over is documented historical facts. No wikipedia is not always completely factual, thats why theres a list of references and sources at the bottom of the article. As for being childish? Seems more childish when you refuse to accept the truth of some issues because of your fragile world view being altered, saying the government or government agencies have never particpated in illegal activity takes alot more faith then so called "conspiracy theories", a term which you seem to be using like a news corporation, to make your opposition look "crazy" based on their political views. Truly ignorant statements on this forum lately.
Nono... you misunderstood what I said. :)
QuoteThe only fact here is that there are no facts.
Nobody can dispute that fact. LoL
That was my exact quote.
What I was saying was that you couldn't dispute was that there was no facts regarding the subject. Nothing more.
Show me facts, real facts on the subject and I'll change my opinion. I'm always open to such things.
I wasn't making any statement for or against the governments being involved. :)
As I said, just a misunderstanding.
Quote from: cpt. picard on April 04, 2010, 16:24:49
Seems like you all could lose the ego as of late, if I dont like something Kurt is saying i dont respond, you Xanth, seem to be making a disproportionate amount of argumentative comments, and this forum does not feel like the open, accepting environment it once was.
Well, generally, I'd agree with you, wholeheartedly...
There's just one problem and that's in that what Kurt is saying has been scaring off the "beginners" lately who have been coming here to learn.
As you can see, even the mods are becoming worried about his rhetoric... and it gets worse and worse everyday. :/
Call it what you want, but I have nothing but the best interest of this forum at heart. Mostly because I've seen his kind of BS ruin forums of this nature in the past.
The mods strong convictions of keeping this forum clean is a testament to their dedication.
www.covertaction.org/
http://www.ciadrugs.com/
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/nsaebb2.htm
http://www.justice.gov/oig/special/9712/exsump1.htm#IV.
Here is a few sources for some beginning reading material, I will try to find some better sources if you still find these illegitmate, but one thing is for sure, this stuff has made it to the courts before in the past so saying its nothing but a factless "conspiracy" theory is unwarranted. Also the case with Rick Ross is LA would be worth looking into, he was the biggest drug dealer for years, only to find out he was buying off the CIA the ENTIRE time, like I said, this far from fringe conspiracy material. Anyways, I admit I dont buy much of what Kurt says, but the more we ignore it the more likely it is to stop in my opinion, afterall, who wants to lose an argument once its started? :wink:
Quote from: Xanth on April 04, 2010, 16:36:33
There's just one problem and that's in that what Kurt is saying has been scaring off the "beginners" lately who have been coming here to learn.
The world can be a scary place and I'm helping people to understand the
truth. The truth no matter how scary, unbelievable or ridiculous it may sound is still the truth and should be sought out.
Quote from: Xanth on April 04, 2010, 16:36:33
As you can see, even the mods are becoming worried about his rhetoric. :/
Call it what you want, but I have nothing but the best interest of this forum at heart.
Cause I've seen his kind of BS ruin forums of this nature in the past... actually many times.
Xanth… You just posted three times in a row and two of them where off topic. That is what they like to call trolling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%2). In fact this is one of the most common reasons why forums go downhill, not because people are scared.
Quote from: cpt. picard on April 04, 2010, 16:45:08
www.covertaction.org/
http://www.ciadrugs.com/
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/nsaebb2.htm
http://www.justice.gov/oig/special/9712/exsump1.htm#IV.
Here is a few sources for some beginning reading material, I will try to find some better sources if you still find these illegitmate, but one thing is for sure, this stuff has made it to the courts before in the past so saying its nothing but a factless "conspiracy" theory is unwarranted. Also the case with Rick Ross is LA would be worth looking into, he was the biggest drug dealer for years, only to find out he was buying off the CIA the ENTIRE time, like I said, this far from fringe conspiracy material. Anyways, I admit I dont buy much of what Kurt says, but the more we ignore it the more likely it is to stop in my opinion, afterall, who wants to lose an argument once its started? :wink:
Thanks for the links captain! :) (wow, I feel funny saying that... hehe)
I'll give them a read very soon, I promise. I have an Easter Dinner to get to today, shortly.
But yeah, I do agree... I should exercise my 'ignore button' a bit more. edit: like right now, for instance. :)
I just worry for the new people, to set themselves back before they even get going. We all remember being "the new guy"... and to come into all this already in debt... well, I'd like to stop that if at all possible. I am happy to see there are people here who aren't being taken in by him.
But yes... I'll dial it back a bit. :)
lol, Im about to head to some relatives for easter dinner myself (although i only celebrate it as a cultural holiday, as there is no Christianity in the 24th century) :wink:
At this point I'm just enjoying seeing Xanth troll all over Kurt.
(whose karma, incidentally, is going down once every 100 hours)
Quote from: zareste on April 05, 2010, 01:20:52
At this point I'm just enjoying seeing Xanth troll all over Kurt.
(whose karma, incidentally, is going down once every 100 hours)
So...
What you're saying is that you are ADMITTING that you are harassing me?
can you do Stookie next? I want to see what happens
*wags nose at Zareste* :-P
personalreality,
The floor is back to you. :)
Come on guys, stop fighting. This is getting ridiculous :wink:
Quote from: Xanth on April 04, 2010, 16:28:46
hehe nono... I was referring to your REM events. :)
You're not noticing them anymore.
The REM came back today for some reason, stronger than ever too. Weird! :?
Quote from: Fresco on April 05, 2010, 14:34:26
The REM came back today for some reason, stronger than ever too. Weird! :?
Lots of "sensations" are going to come and go as you progress through your practicing.
It's best to keep that air of "meh" about them... and just accept them and go with the flow. :)
Let's get this thread back on topic.
A member came in and asked about antidepressants and their effects (positive or negative) on projection.
Any more fighting, and/or off-topic discussion on this thread will lead to its closure.
Thank you for you understanding and cooperation.
I'm starting to regain a sense of myself and so I'm gonna try to start projecting again when I have time on wednesday.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Hi , my name is Naomi, I really felt for you, I really don't think it is the drugs at all, I am on a very high narcotic Hydromophone contin (6 mg) 3 times a day and also hydromorph ( delalid)2mg 3 x a day and I project at least once every week although I have gone 2. It started for me about 2 years ago and I was diagnosed with MS 5 years ago.. The pain was unbearable and I took up mediatation to help ease the pain which is what I think brought the astral travel on... the fact is I never even heard of it, I was scared to death at the beginning and looked up Near Death experiences then came upon Astral Travel through the process... so maybe meditation would help you???
I meditate. There's a difference between heroin addiction and legitimate pain management as far as state of mind is concerned. You'll still go through withdrawal though if you ever come off it. But you take it cause you have to, I did it to get high (though I bet you're probably pretty high a lot of the time, there's no way you can't be on those kinds of meds at first).
What's been holding me back is the withdrawal symptoms. I'm able to meditate now but I haven't even really tried to project yet. I still think opiates stifle the soul though. Perhaps you're highly energetically developed and the opiate doesn't effect you as bad.
What I'm worried about now is the zoloft. I mean, I have lots of experience with the effect of narcotics on spiritual practice, I'm just not sure about mood meds. My personal beliefs on the subject are cause for concern, but I'm gonna keep trying.
Thank you for sharing your experience
Is Zoloft a psychoactive drug??
I could be wrong but I dont think Zoloft will be a hindrance to projecting.
When I had my spontaneous OBE I was on 4 different prescribed drugs for my lower back. I was on tylenol 4 (codeine, caffeine & ACE) and also Flexeril (muscle relaxant). If I can have an OBE on those 4 I think you can probably have one on Zoloft also.
I also heard of people having OBE's on very strong anaesthetics in hospital
Quote from: Fresco on April 06, 2010, 11:22:21
Is Zoloft a psychoactive drug??
I could be wrong but I dont think Zoloft will be a hindrance to projecting.
When I had my spontaneous OBE I was on 4 different prescribed drugs for my lower back. I was on tylenol 4 (codeine, caffeine & ACE) and also Flexeril (muscle relaxant). If I can have an OBE on those 4 I think you can probably have one on Zoloft also.
I also heard of people having OBE's on very strong anaesthetics in hospital
www.zoloft.com
It's to treat depression. So, in effect, it alters your brain chemistry.
Tylenol and the like doesn't do that to the same extent, I believe.
I'm no doctor though... so don't quote me on either of those. LOL
You're right xanth. Those work on the musculoskeltal system, naturally they effect the brain though. Its all about neurotransmitters.
I worry about zoloft because I think it and drugs like it were created to intentionally stifle spiritual experience.
Quote from: Xanth on April 05, 2010, 15:21:31
Lots of "sensations" are going to come and go as you progress through your practicing.
It's best to keep that air of "meh" about them... and just accept them and go with the flow. :)
The REM has stopped permanently it seems, but I'm now getting weird light flashes.
Oh well, I'll take your advice and keep an air of "meh" about it :-P
That may be a third eye flash. Any headaches with it?
Quote from: CFTraveler on April 07, 2010, 17:59:59
That may be a third eye flash. Any headaches with it?
No headaches. And the flashes are not bright at all, very faint
Ok then. They're just stuff you never noticed before, but now do.
I tried to project yesterday, but there's still a bit too much anxiety. I'm also dealing with some pretty intense restless leg syndrome. It seems my circulatory system is also very sensitive still.
I was able to lay down for about 45 minutes but I couldn't calm my mind enough. Eventually the restless leg got the best of me and I had to stop. I'm doing better than I was though. Previously I could only lay down for about 10 minutes to do a little energy work.