Pushing/Pressure Sensations ??

[SCHMUSTIN]

Hey guys and gals how's it going?

I laid down this afternoon to practice projecting. While I was laying there relaxing, breathing deep and counting backwards... trying to keep my mind occupied. I decided to try some phantom movements.

I was moving my hands up and down, wiggling my fingers and my toes; nothing was really working.

I decided to create some forms of full body movement, at which point I started rocking back and forth as if I was sleeping on a boat. Rocking head to toe not side to side. That seemed to work well at the start and then it stopped.

I know about the roll out method so I figured I would try that as a movement and just trying to rock back and fourth. I forgot to mention that I was on my side through this whole process.

So as I'm laying there rocking front to back, I started to feel as if I was actually rocking. So then I thought why not try and roll out. Now it slightly worked better one way than the other. When I would roll to my front I would get this sort of pressure all along the back side of my body and I had this urge to roll but I didn't know how to discern weather I was rolling my physical or not.

As well it seemed like I knew I had to roll but I have no idea how to do it if I can't use my muscles. Hinder

If any of you can help me out and provide some guidance on learning how to move when this situation occurs that would be greatly appreciated I really feel like I was there I just didn't know how to go any farther.... it was kind of confusing.

Edit: I wanted to add that I was very aware of my physical body as much as I believe I was aware of my astral body. Is this possible??? Almost like I knew I had two and what position each limb was in???

[EscapeVelocity]

Honestly, for myself and what I have read of others' experiences, the process at this point can slow down to what feels like you are only making an inch of progress with each session. It still is progress and it was extremely frustrating for me but I found there were still certain very subtle issues that needed attention. It's impossible for me to say what your issues may be, but it's safe to say there are a few ideas we can explore that seem pretty common.

Some subtle fear issues can still be there, but if you feel you're still making progress each time then that may indicate that you are slowly working through any fear and doubt issues which may linger. One process that I find can greatly help with this is to add in a daily/nightly affirmation.

"I ask for permission and give myself permission to have an out of body experience. I want to do this and know that I am safe and protected."

Say it with meaning every morning and evening for a week or two. This inner communication is subtle yet very powerful for many people.

Another aspect to consider is an honest appraisal of just how relaxed a state you are achieving. If you are really getting energy sensations then you are probably deep enough; but maybe you play around with the timing of your sessions and possibly find a still deeper state. This has always been an important issue and a difficulty for me: The timing of it and then determining the feel of just what particular energy sensations are actually moving me toward an OBE. It's like spinning the dial on a combination lock and sensitively feeling for the activation of the tumblers mechanism. In my case, I really need to be on the edge of sleep in order to relinquish control.

Finally, there is the consideration of just what exit technique is going to work for you and that becomes a truly personal search. Kinesthetic, visual or auditory. I tried visual walkthroughs- nothing. When energy movement sensations occurred, I had difficulty following them through to exit. When vibrations happened, I couldn't make that work. It wasn't until I had a rough night with indigestion and had to prop myself up in bed to find enough relief to drop off into sleep. That time, I was able to watch myself fall asleep and follow the hypnogogic progression of images until i found myself riding a bobsled down a snowy hill. This taught me the importance of adding rhythmic movement to a visual, thus the Rundown, such as Selski's excellent Trampoline Rundown. The visual took on a life of its own and I was literally dumped into a Wake Induced Lucid Dream. From there I phased back to my Physical and experienced a true Mind Awake Body Asleep State. Then I floated out in RTZ/Etheric fashion, then back in followed by a Phasing exit. It was a quite instructive experience.

So, my point is to choose an exit technique but stay open to whatever other sensations may occur, and be ready to adjust and follow them...be as open as possible.

Hope that gives some additional ideas.

[Lumaza]

If any of you can help me out and provide some guidance on learning how to move when this situation occurs that would be greatly appreciated I really feel like I was there I just didn't know how to go any farther.... it was kind of confusing.

I think this "Sticky" here will be very helpful to you. You are doing great! I think you need to read it again though, just to "rehash" what it says.  
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/how_exactly_do_you_perform_the_phantom_wiggle_method-t44583.0.html

I still use that technique often, but I have kind of tweaked it to what you now find on the last pages of my "Doorway thread" found here:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/the_doorway-t46013.0.html

The whole thread is good though. It has many different techniques that you can play with. Find something that feels "comfortable" and "natural" to you though.

[DancingBear]

Purely out of curiosity, why do people like to use these exit techniques instead of just letting it happen through deep relaxation/meditation? When I had my OBE by just surrendering to the moment, I just floated right out of my body with no effort. Afterwards when I tried to force new OBE experiences through my will, it felt like I was taking steps backwards. That method felt like I was hindering myself more than anything, by bringing me into a state of attachment/aversion that seemed counterproductive on multiple levels. I've decided to just continue expanding my awareness through meditation, which also happens to melt fears away by melting away aversion.

Maybe this is a slower path, but it feels like going with the flow of the river instead of fighting my way upstream.

[SCHMUSTIN]

Honestly, for myself and what I have read of others' experiences, the process at this point can slow down to what feels like you are only making an inch of progress with each session. It still is progress and it was extremely frustrating for me but I found there were still certain very subtle issues that needed attention. It's impossible for me to say what your issues may be, but it's safe to say there are a few ideas we can explore that seem pretty common.

Some subtle fear issues can still be there, but if you feel you're still making progress each time then that may indicate that you are slowly working through any fear and doubt issues which may linger. One process that I find can greatly help with this is to add in a daily/nightly affirmation.

"I ask for permission and give myself permission to have an out of body experience. I want to do this and know that I am safe and protected."

Say it with meaning every morning and evening for a week or two. This inner communication is subtle yet very powerful for many people.

Another aspect to consider is an honest appraisal of just how relaxed a state you are achieving. If you are really getting energy sensations then you are probably deep enough; but maybe you play around with the timing of your sessions and possibly find a still deeper state. This has always been an important issue and a difficulty for me: The timing of it and then determining the feel of just what particular energy sensations are actually moving me toward an OBE. It's like spinning the dial on a combination lock and sensitively feeling for the activation of the tumblers mechanism. In my case, I really need to be on the edge of sleep in order to relinquish control.

Finally, there is the consideration of just what exit technique is going to work for you and that becomes a truly personal search. Kinesthetic, visual or auditory. I tried visual walkthroughs- nothing. When energy movement sensations occurred, I had difficulty following them through to exit. When vibrations happened, I couldn't make that work. It wasn't until I had a rough night with indigestion and had to prop myself up in bed to find enough relief to drop off into sleep. That time, I was able to watch myself fall asleep and follow the hypnogogic progression of images until i found myself riding a bobsled down a snowy hill. This taught me the importance of adding rhythmic movement to a visual, thus the Rundown, such as Selski's excellent Trampoline Rundown. The visual took on a life of its own and I was literally dumped into a Wake Induced Lucid Dream. From there I phased back to my Physical and experienced a true Mind Awake Body Asleep State. Then I floated out in RTZ/Etheric fashion, then back in followed by a Phasing exit. It was a quite instructive experience.

So, my point is to choose an exit technique but stay open to whatever other sensations may occur, and be ready to adjust and follow them...be as open as possible.

Hope that gives some additional ideas.

EV,

Thank you for the guiding words.

I know its near impossible for you to say what my blocks are.... At this point in my life I totally agree that there are blocks and tests I need to work through.
I can say in the past I know I had some huge fear blocks but I feel as if I have and still am making good progress on this.

Thanks you for the affirmation: "I ask for permission and give myself permission to have an out of body experience. I want to do this and know that I am safe and protected."

I am big on affirmations so that is greatly appreciated!

Now this is hard to state with 100% certainty (because I have nothing to really compare it to) but I believe I am relaxed as I possibly can and it doesn't seem to take me long... most time 2 – 3 min.

EV you state: "If you are really getting energy sensations then you are probably deep enough; but maybe you play around with the timing of your sessions and possibly find a still deeper state."
I believe I am "really getting energy sensations" but once again cannot say with 100% certainty as I... Don't Know, What I Don't Know", right?
I can say that shortly after I am relaxed I start getting such things as feelings of movement, colorful lights, random thought pattern, varying degrees for light and dark behind my eyelids etc..

It's almost like at certain times I can think about a sensation and It seems to come on shortly their after I think about it and focus on it.... Is this normal or is it my mind playing tricks on me??

EV,
Can you comment on my edit to the post as well? Would really like to read what you have to say about that?
"Edit: I wanted to add that I was very aware of my physical body as much as I believe I was aware of my astral body. Is this possible??? Almost like I knew I had two and what position each limb was in???"

I thought this was strange as I felt as if when I was on my side rolling back and for the front to back and so on... I was aware of my physical body as well almost like I could feel myself, rocking inside it.... Have you experience anything like this?

I think this "Sticky" here will be very helpful to you. You are doing great! I think you need to read it again though, just to "rehash" what it says. 
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/how_exactly_do_you_perform_the_phantom_wiggle_method-t44583.0.html

I still use that technique often, but I have kind of tweaked it to what you now find on the last pages of my "Doorway thread" found here:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/the_doorway-t46013.0.html

The whole thread is good though. It has many different techniques that you can play with. Find something that feels "comfortable" and "natural" to you though.

Lumaza,

Thank you for those links, I have time today to read through them again.
I have read them before but refreshers are always good and I find you pick up new things you may have missed the first time.

Right now I find I am questioning weather what I go through is real, or just my mind playing tricks on me because I want it so bad?
I know this is not a good way to go about it but I don't know how to stop questioning it, Andy advice based on your experiences?

Purely out of curiosity, why do people like to use these exit techniques instead of just letting it happen through deep relaxation/meditation? When I had my OBE by just surrendering to the moment, I just floated right out of my body with no effort. Afterwards when I tried to force new OBE experiences through my will, it felt like I was taking steps backwards. That method felt like I was hindering myself more than anything, by bringing me into a state of attachment/aversion that seemed counterproductive on multiple levels. I've decided to just continue expanding my awareness through meditation, which also happens to melt fears away by melting away aversion.

Maybe this is a slower path, but it feels like going with the flow of the river instead of fighting my way upstream.

Dancing Bear,

Thank you for the reply.
I have tried meditation but honestly I cannot seem to use it to get anything close to a projection.

Now... I have not researched proper meditation techniques and have not practiced to really warrant a educated comment on this subject so I don't want to say to much.
For me I feel like I subconsciously separate meditation from laying down and wanting to project. I think it is the subconscious intent I put behind the two.

[Lumaza]

Lumaza,

Thank you for those links, I have time today to read through them again.
I have read them before but refreshers are always good and I find you pick up new things you may have missed the first time.

Right now I find I am questioning weather what I go through is real, or just my mind playing tricks on me because I want it so bad?
I know this is not a good way to go about it but I don't know how to stop questioning it, Andy advice based on your experiences?

My advise, "Experience it now, question it later"! 

[DancingBear]

I have tried meditation but honestly I cannot seem to use it to get anything close to a projection.

Now... I have not researched proper meditation techniques and have not practiced to really warrant a educated comment on this subject so I don't want to say to much.
For me I feel like I subconsciously separate meditation from laying down and wanting to project. I think it is the subconscious intent I put behind the two.

Not sure if it will help, but when I used meditation to AP I started meditating after waking up in the middle of the night. My body was still sleepy, but I kept myself focused consciously.

Personally I use my own blend of Vipassana (mindfulness) meditation. I tend to start with awareness of my body, but transition into a nonreactive state of just existing. Not really focused on anything in particular, but still aware of everything that is happening. That's the state that brings out the more subtle aspects of self for me, when I stop actively seeking sensations of the mind or body, and let them rise and fall like waves in the ocean.

Hope this helps.

[SCHMUSTIN]

Not sure if it will help, but when I used meditation to AP I started meditating after waking up in the middle of the night. My body was still sleepy, but I kept myself focused consciously.

Personally I use my own blend of Vipassana (mindfulness) meditation. I tend to start with awareness of my body, but transition into a nonreactive state of just existing. Not really focused on anything in particular, but still aware of everything that is happening. That's the state that brings out the more subtle aspects of self for me, when I stop actively seeking sensations of the mind or body, and let them rise and fall like waves in the ocean.

Hope this helps.

Dancing bear,

This sounds like a version of what I do except I try and mentally bring on different sensations or movements.
From what you are saying you sit/lay there with a blank mind and just wait for something to come on, Correct?

[DancingBear]

This sounds like a version of what I do except I try and mentally bring on different sensations or movements.

The approaches might seem similar, but they're actually quite different. I don't intentionally meditate to experience OBE, in fact I drop whatever intentions I possibly can. The simplest way I can explain my view on mindfulness meditation (which is what the Buddha actually used to attain enlightenment), is to be a human being, not a human doing, as Scatman John so eloquently put it. Mindfulness is about existing in the present moment unconditionally, so you can observe reality for what it is.

The foundation of Buddhist teachings, and what I see as the foundation for meditation itself is The Three Poisons, which are said to be the root of suffering. They roughly translate as attachment/desire, aversion, and ignorance. If you're attached to or desiring a certain outcome, you are not content with what is, and will suffer for it, because desire is an insatiable master. When you respond to a situation with aversion, you're again not content with what is, and will suffer for it, for things will never be the exact way the ego wants them to be. And finally ignorance, or not knowing the truth of who we are and what is, causes delusion that leads to much suffering.

Meditation is really about tackling all 3 of these. If you try to go from point A to point B because you aren't ok with the way things are you will suffer, and are also moving away from your self which is a double Whammy. Both aversion and attachment are doing this. So what happens if we let go of trying to do so we can just be? Then we sit with ourselves, and with time and attention we come to realize that what we thought was "us" actually wasn't us at all.

When I said I usually start with my attention on my body, it's because if I'm going to peel away the layers of what isn't me, I've got to start somewhere. By sitting with myself, I for example realize my physical sensations aren't me, because who is it that's aware of these physical sensations? Then I see my thoughts, and I realize I also am not these thoughts, because who is it that is aware of these thoughts? And this rabbit hole continues, and after you stop associating with these false aspects of self, you also stop feeding them your attention, and with time they fade into the background.

For me, this is where I start becoming more aware of what is happening in the moment without attaching to specific background noise. And once I am not associating with and in turn giving attention to the sensations that normally make up my experience, I  give room for more subtle aspects of self to come into my awareness. This is where I've gotten to in my meditations. And the more you meditate the more readily these delusions fall away.

So these more subtle aspects of self that you become aware of through dedicated practice, that's where I think I stumbled upon OBE's through meditation. It seems to be that with my body being tired from just waking up, then me starting to meditate while these Theta/Delta (And maybe even Gamma) waves were still affecting my state of awareness, I was then able to rapidly shed false aspects of self (in maybe 15 minutes or so). That's where I became aware of my energetic body? and at least some of my consciouness separated from the physical. This is my guess at what I experience, but I'm only human after all so take it with a grain of salt. =)

I fleshed this out with the hope that you'll more clearly understand what it is I did or "didnt" do, and what I meant by Vipassana. I do want to stress that it's surrendering to the moment, and casting aside your aspirations or resentments for everything just to be with yourself that would lead you down the path I described. When you start trying to do something, like AP, you've started going down the path of the ego. And maybe that is the path you need to experience AP. But in my experience, the truth of who you are comes not from running away from yourself, but from turning around and staring into the abyss.

Hope this helps.

[Phildan1]

Thank You for sharing your thoughts, very useful!

[SCHMUSTIN]

The approaches might seem similar, but they're actually quite different. I don't intentionally meditate to experience OBE, in fact I drop whatever intentions I possibly can. The simplest way I can explain my view on mindfulness meditation (which is what the Buddha actually used to attain enlightenment), is to be a human being, not a human doing, as Scatman John so eloquently put it. Mindfulness is about existing in the present moment unconditionally.

The foundation of Buddhist teachings, and what I see as the foundation for meditation itself is The Three Poisons, which are said to be the root of suffering. They roughly translate as attachment/desire, aversion, and ignorance. If you're attached to or desiring a certain outcome, you are not content with what is, and will suffer for it, because desire is an insatiable master. When you respond to a situation with aversion, you're again not content with what is, and will suffer for it, for things will never be the exact way the ego wants them to be. And finally ignorance, or not knowing the truth of who we are and what is, causes delusion that leads to much suffering.

Meditation is really about tackling all 3 of these. If you try to go from point A to point B because you aren't ok with the way things are you will suffer, and are also moving away from your self which is a double Whammy. Both aversion and attachment are doing this. So what happens if we let go of trying to do so we can just be? Then we sit with ourselves, and with time and attention we come to realize that what we thought was "us" actually wasn't us at all.

When I said I usually start with my attention on my body, it's because if I'm going to peel away the layers of what isn't me, I've got to start somewhere. By sitting with myself, I for example realize my physical sensations aren't me, because who is it that's aware of these physical sensations? Then I see my thoughts, and I realize I also am not these thoughts, because who is it that is aware of these thoughts? And this rabbit hole continues, and after you stop associating with these false aspects of self, you also stop feeding them your attention, and with time they fade into the background.

For me, this is where I start becoming more aware of what is happening in the moment without attaching to specific background noise. And once I am not associating with and in turn giving attention to the sensations that normally make up my experience, I  give room for more subtle aspects of self to come into my awareness. This is where I've gotten to in my meditations. And the more you meditate the more readily these delusions fall away.

So these more subtle aspects of self that you become aware of through dedicated practice, that's where I think I stumbled upon OBE's through meditation. It seems to be that with my body being tired from just waking up, then me starting to meditate while these Theta/Delta (And maybe even Gamma) waves were still affecting my state of awareness, I was then able to rapidly shed false aspects of self (in maybe 15 minutes or so). That's where I became aware of my energetic body? and at least some of my consciouness separated from the physical. This is my guess at what I experience, but I'm only human after all so take it with a grain of salt. =)

I fleshed this out with the hope that you'll more clearly understand what it is I did or "didnt" do, and what I meant by Vipassana. I do want to stress that it's surrendering to the moment, and casting aside your aspirations or resentments for everything just to be with yourself that would lead you down the path I described. When you start trying to do something, like AP, you've started going down the path of the ego. And maybe that is the path you need to experience AP. But in my experience, the truth of who you are comes not from running away from yourself, but from turning around and staring into the abyss.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for taking the time to give this detailed write up. After reading it is sounds pike a good tool to institute into my practice routine.

So if i were to research this a bit, I would search "Mindfulness Meditation", that is what the technique is called, correct?

[DancingBear]

It is more commonly known as that but I would search for 'Vipassana'. And if afterwards you like what you find as descriptions of it then I would check out vipassanaforum.net

There are some very knowledgeable people there and a lot of material you could go through, from rudimentary to highly advanced and technical. I would recommend to be mindful that there are people there that follow the path as a devout Christian might follow the Bible. So stick with what resonates with you and not necessarily any dogma that might be presented as truth. Although I will say I've found Buddhism to be much more rooted in truth than the other common religions, I don't know if I'd even call it a religion. I'm not sure if any of them would even humor talk about things such as AP, and might even just call it a distraction that needs to be left behind (which maybe on some part of our path it does, but I don't know that yet if it's true).

[EscapeVelocity]

I like the suggestion DancingBear made about waking in the middle of the night and practicing either a meditation or an exit technique. This is what I was getting at about varying the timing of your attempts and seeing if that didn't allow you to move deeper or notice any different qualities within your energy sensations. This is also known as the WBTB Wake, Back To Bed technique and involves getting about 2-3 hours sleep so that the initial one or two deep, Delta NREM sleep periods are allowed then a waking period of 30 minutes to an hour before going back to meditate, you try a technique or simply observe yourself as you slide back into sleep. The connection between the physical body and the awareness is much weaker at this point.

If you are already noticing random, fragmented thoughts, energy movements and colors behind the eyes then this is a great indication that this may work for you. I really need to do a sticky on this apparently normal hypnogogic progression into sleep, Lol.

The progression of hypnogogia goes approximately like this: Continued relaxation; fragmented, random thoughts; continued disconnection from physical body sensations; flashes of color; possibly some variety of auditory hallucinations; disjointed static pictures (often first in black/white); noticeable complete disconnection mentally from the physical; short, choppy fragments of visuals that gradually increase in length and color and vividness; longer, more complete visuals in HD that take on a life of their own...at this point you can let the visual develop and strengthen and begin trying to mentally 'step into' the scene...at some point you will 'phase' into the scene...this can be considered phasing into a Lucid Dream or somewhere in the Astral; decide for yourself when you get there.

This whole sequence requires a strong degree of being the 'detached and unemotional observer'...which you already sound like you have a good idea of; otherwise, you risk getting too excited or too involved too early and the sequence crashes; if so, then start over.

The idea of being aware of your energy body while still in your physical is normal and a good sign of awareness. It's progress and yes, it leaves you wondering at first, if you can really trust your senses. In point of fact, this is likely a new sense that you are learning; a sense that actually belongs to your energy body. Congratulations, this is one of many new senses you are going to slowly realize. Just wait until you are finally out of body and then maybe momentarily be aware of simultaneous perspectives from both bodies! That is the double perspective. Then at some point, you may experience witnessing both perspectives from even a third perspective; that is the triple! And if you're lucky, you might experience your awareness bouncing back and forth between all three and then get the balanced perspective. Yeah, that shakes things up, Lol!

Again, you are making great progress and getting close. Don't get too preoccupied with any of the details and trust your intuition and go with the flow.

[SCHMUSTIN]

I like the suggestion DancingBear made about waking in the middle of the night and practicing either a meditation or an exit technique. This is what I was getting at about varying the timing of your attempts and seeing if that didn't allow you to move deeper or notice any different qualities within your energy sensations. This is also known as the WBTB Wake, Back To Bed technique and involves getting about 2-3 hours sleep so that the initial one or two deep, Delta NREM sleep periods are allowed then a waking period of 30 minutes to an hour before going back to meditate, you try a technique or simply observe yourself as you slide back into sleep. The connection between the physical body and the awareness is much weaker at this point.

If you are already noticing random, fragmented thoughts, energy movements and colors behind the eyes then this is a great indication that this may work for you. I really need to do a sticky on this apparently normal hypnogogic progression into sleep, Lol.

The progression of hypnogogia goes approximately like this: Continued relaxation; fragmented, random thoughts; continued disconnection from physical body sensations; flashes of color; possibly some variety of auditory hallucinations; disjointed static pictures (often first in black/white); noticeable complete disconnection mentally from the physical; short, choppy fragments of visuals that gradually increase in length and color and vividness; longer, more complete visuals in HD that take on a life of their own...at this point you can let the visual develop and strengthen and begin trying to mentally 'step into' the scene...at some point you will 'phase' into the scene...this can be considered phasing into a Lucid Dream or somewhere in the Astral; decide for yourself when you get there.

This whole sequence requires a strong degree of being the 'detached and unemotional observer'...which you already sound like you have a good idea of; otherwise, you risk getting too excited or too involved too early and the sequence crashes; if so, then start over.

The idea of being aware of your energy body while still in your physical is normal and a good sign of awareness. It's progress and yes, it leaves you wondering at first, if you can really trust your senses. In point of fact, this is likely a new sense that you are learning; a sense that actually belongs to your energy body. Congratulations, this is one of many new senses you are going to slowly realize. Just wait until you are finally out of body and then maybe momentarily be aware of simultaneous perspectives from both bodies! That is the double perspective. Then at some point, you may experience witnessing both perspectives from even a third perspective; that is the triple! And if you're lucky, you might experience your awareness bouncing back and forth between all three and then get the balanced perspective. Yeah, that shakes things up, Lol!

Again, you are making great progress and getting close. Don't get too preoccupied with any of the details and trust your intuition and go with the flow.

EscapeVelocity,

I tried the WBTB method twice over the weekend and nothing happened?
I notice now that you state to sleep for 2 - 3 hours i was sleeping for 5 to 6. Could that have been the issue?

In regards to the hypnogogic progression you mention above I do get those sensation and visuals.
Some time i will get movement sensation first is this normal? And some time i wont get visuals???