OBEs and Shamanism

[Rolling Bear]

Alivie, I appreciate your interest in McKenna; he was my favorite thinker. In my experience with OBEs, it is in the real-time, or etheric, realms where most of the shamanic activity takes place, as well as sorcery and types of shape-shifting. While it is rare to encounter brujos, witches, sorcerers, vodoun thought-dart-shooters, psychic vampires, and the like in the real-time zones, I have on occasion experienced the presence of some of these beings, and, what's more, I have been tempted by my own lower "id" nature during such visits,  brutishly attracted toward the auric fields of others. Fortunately, I have always been mostly able to avoid acting on such impulses. My lower-plane encounters with some negative elements were not the "fear-based projections" that some on this board automatically reduce such encounters to with knee-jerk regularity, but actual meetings with unwholesome entities other than myself. Mostly, though, the real-time areas are fairly safe, though as with any form of travel, I recommend preparation and caution. One of the activities of shamans in the RTs is traveling the ley lines; these are shamanic superhighways, leading from power spot to power spot...and sometimes to the abodes of competing shamans. I believe that shamanic work also takes place in the astral realms, and that astral journeying per se can be regarded as shamanic activity. Remember what McKenna wrote about the shaman: she is someone who has been to the other side, and seen the wiring beneath the board. Those of us who practice these arts are spiritual midwives of sorts, modern shamans helping in the transition to life in other dimensions. Recommended reading is Joan Halifax and Michael Harner.

"Each whole is simultaneously a part, a whole/part, a holon. And reality is composed, not of things nor processes nor wholes nor parts, but of whole/parts, holons." --Ken Wilber

[alivie]

Thanks for the reply.
I guess this means that shamanic concepts like power animals can be compared to the spirit guides of the astral dimensions?
I suppose its just that if you want hep from a power animal you may get one but if you expect a human guide you may see help in this form.
I understand that things in astral appear to you in the way you expect them to appear to you.

Another question that interests me is the shamanic concept of death/rebirth.
In this the shaman apprentice is stripped of all flesh and rebuilt in the underworld with a stronger body suited for more serious shamanic work.
Do you think this experience is similair (but more extreme) to Robert Bruce's idea of removing core images when he psychicly spring cleans his inner being. There is an article on this site from Bruce on this subject.

[Rolling Bear]

quote:Originally posted by alivie:
I understand that things in astral appear to you in the way you expect them to appear to you.

Alivie, I believe it's more complicated than that; our encounters are both products of ourselves and others. To say that all we encounter in the nonphysical realms are simply our own thought-constructs is to say, in effect, that these realms are populated only by ourselves, which is not the case. Others are there as well. So when we encounter an entity in the etheric or astral realms, it may be a reflection of our own thoughts, or it may be someone else's, as filtered through our own belief-system. It's a complex interaction of I perceive you perceiving me perceiving you....and so on, to infinity. A book that explains this concept well -- in terms of psychology -- is psychiatrist R.D. Laing's "Politics of Experience." Our guides may be aspects of ourselves, of others, or both.

quote:Another question that interests me is the shamanic concept of death/rebirth.
In this the shaman apprentice is stripped of all flesh and rebuilt in the underworld with a stronger body suited for more serious shamanic work.
Do you think this experience is similair (but more extreme) to Robert Bruce's idea of removing core images when he psychicly spring cleans his inner being. There is an article on this site from Bruce on this subject.

I must read this article! It sounds fascinating. I can't answer you until I've considered the piece. I would point out to you a fascinating story presented by Joan Halifax in her wonderful "Shamanic Voices": It is the story of a young Inuit shaman who allowed himself to be devoured by a polar bear and excreted, whereupon he found himself a greater whole, filled with power. As with Castenada's story of jumping of the cliff and flitting between the dimensions, we are left wondering, "Was the account literal? Was the shaman really ingested and shat by a polar bear!?" We do not know. The answer may be ambiguous. But it is curious to ponder.



"Each whole is simultaneously a part, a whole/part, a holon. And reality is composed, not of things nor processes nor wholes nor parts, but of whole/parts, holons." --Ken Wilber

[Rolling Bear]

Alivie, I was just thinking about your mentions of McKenna, shamanism, and DMT, and wondering if you know of any purported afterlife contacts with him, or Tim Leary, for that matter, or even Carlos Castenda. I haven't attempted to contact any of these individuals myself, but I suppose some have -- and as you probably know, people are always saying that they've met with Bob Monroe (yes, I am one of the nut cases who claims this as well, although Monroe -- if it was indeed he -- seemed to be angry with me).  I did once conceive of a short story that involved a space ship stuck in the void between galaxies; not only are the stranded crew in contact with a sentient spore cloud, but they have passing meetings with beings like those I've just named. In the void they come to realize their selves are pure spirit, that matter is an illusion,  and so learn how to navigate without the ship or their bodies. Anyway, it would be interesting to see if/how McKenna et al may have revised their views since returning to no-time.

"Each whole is simultaneously a part, a whole/part, a holon. And reality is composed, not of things nor processes nor wholes nor parts, but of whole/parts, holons." --Ken Wilber

[alivie]

I began my spiritual quest with shamanism and the writings of Terence McKenna.
I never succeeded in achieving a shamanic journey basically due to poor concentration/relaxation (and attempts via psychedelic drugs seemed too cloudy to put down as a real experience)  but fortunately through no effort on my part I was able to have OBEs when going for an early evening nap.

The RTZ is the only zone I've experienced with my OBEs and I just wondered if shamanic journeys occured in one of the other astral dimensions or if its a completely distinct dimension that cannot be accessed via the OBE techniques.

I realise the shamanic journey is some form of an OBE but it does sound different to the writings of Monroe/Bruce etc.