How can I make OBEs easier and reproducable?

[clandestino]

I think the answer to this question is "no!" for the majority of people who write on these boards.

However there are plenty of people who contribute here that regularly project; hopefully if the rest of us can try to imitate their methods, we can learn too...

Have a look through the previous pages of topics on this forum, and you'll become more familiar with the problems people encounter.

[Frank]

Having repeated and controlled, conscious-exit experiences is something that only comes with a lot of practice (well, for most of us that is).

If you were not born with some natural ability, then it's going to take you quite a bit of mental effort. Please don't believe those advertisements that claim they can sell you some kind of short cut, or think there is some kind of drug that's going to get you there today. Nope, short-cuts only end up being long-cuts in this game.

The way to do it repeatedly, is to develop some kind of ritual that you go through each time.
 
For example, people tend not to just suddenly go to sleep. With most people, if they were to observe themselves, they would see the habitual process they go through of gradually winding down. The same principle applies to obe practice.

With me, I could have a controlled obe alright, but could only initiate the process from a lucid dream. Something which would occur around 3 times per week. So in order to work on getting a better degree of control over the start of things, what I did was get into a ritual of waking up at around 4 to 5am each morning. (This I found quite natural as I've always been an early riser: very rare I'm not in bed and asleep by 10 pm.)

On awakening, I'd listen to the Gateway CD1 a couple of times which "puts me in the mood" as it were. Then I go through the same physical-shutdown ritual only without the CD. After about 5 months of doing this virtually every morning (and often I'd go through the whole process 2 or 3 times in a morning) around 8 times in 10, I can now manage to shift my focal point of awareness to the Astral in a fairly controlled way. I'm hoping, over the coming months, to be able to get to the stage where it's 100% and without the aid of the CD.

I found the two key beneficial aspects are: mental-focus, and intent. And the two biggest stumbling blocks are: doubt, and fear.

Therefore, the most beneficial way to proceed is to focus your mind fully on the task in hand; with the intent to succeed beyond doubt; and realise that initial fears are a normal part of the process that go away once you gain a fair degree of familiarity.

Yours,
Frank

[Jeff_Mash]

Density,

I agree with Frank on this one.  What I try and do is EVERY time I lay down to sleep, I simply watch the process that my mind/body goes through as it relaxes.  You see, most people simply lay down to go to sleep, and because their mind is all over the place (focusing on life's little activities), they never have the chance to maintain a degree of awareness (which is fundamental to having an OBE).

So what I have done is train myself to quiet out my thoughts, and focus my conscious awareness on a mental image in front of me.  This is tough, and I still have difficulty doing this, but it becomes easier with practice.  Soon the mental image starts to take on a 3 dimensional effect, and it doesn't fade away as quick as before.  If I had more control, I would probably be able to consciously project from this waken state.  However, I almost always fall asleep after sometime.  

I find that by going through this little ritual and quieting my thoughts, I am more prone to experience a conscious OBE that night sometime.  But if I don't go through that ritual and don't quiet my thoughts, I will sleep the entire night, waking up in the morning without any experiences.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[clandestino]

hey there mr Mash, last night I tried watching myself go to sleep....i was watching the process that my body went through.

Thing is , this activity in itself kept me awake ! in the end, I just gave up, rolled over and went to sleep.

Any hints and tips for me here ?

[density]

quote:Originally posted by Frank:

Having repeated and controlled, conscious-exit experiences is something that only comes with a lot of practice (well, for most of us that is).

Well, I have no doubt that practice is one of the key elements in this game. Nevertheless, another is knowledge and a third is the right environment or setting. The more practice you have the less you depend on the right setting.

quote:

If you were not born with some natural ability, then it's going to take you quite a bit of mental effort. Please don't believe those advertisements that claim they can sell you some kind of short cut, or think there is some kind of drug that's going to get you there today. Nope, short-cuts only end up being long-cuts in this game.

I can assure you that I never believe advertisment of any kind. However, I think what you call a short-cut will one day exist (or be discovered) without ending up being a long-cut. It is just a matter of time. Actually short-cuts do already exist. It depends just on how you look at them.  Compared to a try-your-OBE-in-the-streets-of-New-York-on-a-busy-Monday-morning a try-your-OBE-at-home-at-night is certainly a short-cut. Sure, some "short-cuts" have proven to be a dead end, but others have not. It is just that we do not call them short-cuts anymore because we all know them.

Now, let us assume there is somebody out there who knows a "working" short-cut, but who is not aware of that. I believe that even you know some "minor" short-cuts which you think are so "unimportant" to be mentioned. Have you ever read Chuang Tze?

quote:

Therefore, the most beneficial way to proceed is to focus your mind fully on the task in hand; with the intent to succeed beyond doubt; and realise that initial fears are a normal part of the process that go away once you gain a fair degree of familiarity.

Well, sure but can you invoke an OBE by that in the same way every time? Could you do it say in the afternoon or any other "unusual" time?

Do not misunderstand my question. I know that this is necessary for most of us.

Have ever heard of Musashi? He was a samurai who was in his time invicable. Oddly enough, he did not know why. I am looking for those Musashis among us and I believe more or less are we all one.

Btw, a good idea to improve your way would be autohypnosis.

[Frank]

DY: Thanks for your comments and I wish I could engage more, but I'm not all that well read Astral Projection wise and History never did anything for me I'm afraid.

The only mystical book I ever tried to read was the Secret of the Golden Flower (Wilhelm translation of the T'AI CHIN TSUNG CHIH) and it was only recently, after around 15 years of projecting to the Astral proper, that I began to work out what the heck they were going on about.

Yours,
Frank

[Jeff_Mash]

quote:Originally posted by clandestino:
hey there mr Mash, last night I tried watching myself go to sleep....i was watching the process that my body went through.

Thing is , this activity in itself kept me awake ! in the end, I just gave up, rolled over and went to sleep.

Any hints and tips for me here ?

The key for me is not to actively watch myself go to sleep, but to passively observe what happens when I do.  I know it seems like I'm talking about the same thing, but there is a key difference.

When watching yourself, you are still keeping yourself too aware of your surroundings.  When your legs go numb, you start to think, "Hey alright, my legs went numb!  I wonder what will happen next?"  

But if you think about being passive (that is, observing what happens to your mind/body as if you were a third party spectator), then you're more able to straddle that fine line between this reality and the astral.

Like Frank says, the buffer between the astral and your imagination is very thin.  The closer we can bring ourselves to the mind awake/body asleep phase, the easier it is to induce an OBE.

Another thing....don't be discouraged if, after doing this exercise, you feel that you are too awake and end up rolling over to get some sleep.  This happens to me all the time.  However, what you have succeeded in doing is setting the stage for an OBE.  Although awake, you have allowed your mind to be one step ahead of your body, since your body is now more tired than your mind.  Usually when this happens to me, I go to sleep and sometimes awaken later to have a full blown OBE.

I hope I explained that ok.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Frank]

Yes, you touch on a very important point there Jeff. It's the crux of the whole relaxation process I'd say. I know what you are saying, words often fail when trying to explain ever so subtle (but ever so important) differences.

I'm currently practising trying to channel specific information. The biggest problem I had (and still do to an extent) was I'd lay myself open and relaxed at Focus 10 and reach out to anyone who wanted to speak to me about a particular topic I wanted information about.

After a while of trying I'd hear a voice telling me about things I wanted to hear: the moment I heard the voice I'd immediately think, "Hey I just made contact!" and instantly the connection was broken. The same would happen if I concentrated on the actual voice.

I worked out that the necessary state of mind to have is to listen, but not listen. On the surface this apears to be a contradiction in terms. But no, it suddenly came to me, that's what we do when listening to music. We focus on the overall sound, not on individual notes played by any one instrument (though, this is possible if we so choose).

So that's how I got around it. Instead of listening to each word that was said, I'd imagine the voice as a kind of music that entered my awareness.

Yours,
Frank

[density]

quote:Originally posted by Frank:

After a while of trying I'd hear a voice telling me about things I wanted to hear: the moment I heard the voice I'd immediately think, "Hey I just made contact!" and instantly the connection was broken. The same would happen if I concentrated on the actual voice.

So can we say when there is a way to control our feelings we can easier have OBEs or easier do anything during the OBE?




***Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they are open.***

[Jeff_Mash]

quote:Originally posted by density:

So can we say when there is a way to control our feelings we can easier have OBEs or easier do anything during the OBE?
parachutes. They only work when they are open.***

Yes, I would say that is true.  The more in control of your feelings, the more control you will have over your experience.  This includes both the induction of an OBE (since it takes a lot of discipline of your thoughts) as well as your OBE itself (which takes a lot of focus).



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[ralphm]

I think if you can do the stuff in AD you can repeat the experience, however I have found that it takes more than techniques to have a worthwhile experience- being able to see and move around while obe.

[density]

quote:Originally posted by Jeff_Mash:
[
Yes, I would say that is true.  The more in control of your feelings, the more control you will have over your experience.  This includes both the induction of an OBE (since it takes a lot of discipline of your thoughts) as well as your OBE itself (which takes a lot of focus).

Isn't that interesting? The astral world is a world where all our wishes and desires can come true.  Interestingly, whenever we have strong emotions (and that is where desires and wishes belong) we loose control over it.

This would make the physical world a product of our own emotions.




"Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they are open."  -  unknown

"Real science can be far stranger than science fiction and much more satisfying."   - Stephen Hawking

[density]

I think one problem for many is that after an OBE we cannot be sure if we can do it again in exectly the same way.

Are there any ways do reach the OBE state in the same way (and hopefully easy way) every time?