AP experiment part deux!

[Novice]

Apply some logic to the principle... say you want a can of beer (just an example) you could at this point get up and get it, this is the fastest way of getting it BUT if you creatively visualize someone handing you a beer you're vibrating in harmony with the action of someone handing you a beer and thus attracting that exact circumstance... it probly wont happen then and there but ya never know it may just spontaneously manifest as someone giving you a drink?... I hope you understand where im coming from here.

hehe...not sure how much 'logic' plays into your scenario.  What you are describing is more along the lines of the laws of attraction/manifestation, correct? Theoretically you are right. But I don't know of anyone who is actually able to manifest instantly. So, in my mind, it really isn't the same thing. Manifesting someone handing you a beer and have it actually occur several months later falls outside the realm of thought = action in my definition. It isn't an incomplete definition, it simply has a time limit on the manifestation, that's all.

[greggkroodsma]

It was reported that they did this experiment at some house at a certain location.  But where it was I forgot.  But at this location, there was a few people that reported something like what you said, but I can't be sure.     

[Mez]

hehe...not sure how much 'logic' plays into your scenario.  What you are describing is more along the lines of the laws of attraction/manifestation, correct?

Well yes but my point is logic in relation to the principles of the mechanism. Logic being a system of reasoning.

Theoretically you are right. But I don't know of anyone who is actually able to manifest instantly. So, in my mind, it really isn't the same thing. Manifesting someone handing you a beer and have it actually occur several months later falls outside the realm of thought = action in my definition. It isn't an incomplete definition, it simply has a time limit on the manifestation, that's all.

Well yes I agree with you somewhat here. I dont know anybody who is able to manifest things instantly without performing an action themselves to manifest their desire... Although in my personal experience I often see things (not cans of beer) manifesting after about a month or so... im not talking about physical things im talking about circumstances.

As for Thought = Action, I slightly disagree with you.

Going back to the can of beer

If i am sitting in the lounge say watching tv with my gf and I suddenly desire a beer at this point there are two things I could do... I could get up and get it myself or I could ask if she would get it for me Both the latter to things are actions. Ie the action of getting up and getting a beer.

The ONLY way these actions can manifest is first from thought. The thought of wanting a beer.

Therefore Thought = Action. You cant dispute that.

Some may argue that the above example isnt "manifestation". That is simply incorrect.

man·i·fest (mn-fst)
adj.
Clearly apparent to the sight or understanding; obvious. See Synonyms at apparent.
tr.v. man·i·fest·ed, man·i·fest·ing, man·i·fests
1. To show or demonstrate plainly; reveal: "Mercedes . . . manifested the chaotic abandonment of hysteria" Jack London.
2. To be evidence of; prove.

and manifestation...

man·i·fes·ta·tion (mn-f-stshn)
n.
1.
a. The act of manifesting.
b. The state of being manifested.
2. An indication of the existence, reality, or presence of something:

Thought = Action is universal. It is impossible for something to manifest without first being a thought.

my next argument would be this....

Everything is energy vibrating at different frenqeuncies to make up the world we percieve.

Energy affects energy. This is another principle that cannot be disputed. Take for example your tv. Lets say you are sitting down on your couch and your lounge and your tv is off. You want your tv on... So you get up and turn it on.
The TV is energy, You are energy. You have changed the energetic state of the tv. Energy has affected Energy. This is universal and IMHO undisputable.

On a global scale Thought = Action is difficult to percieve in the way which it us usually thought of. That is "I will think of a new car and it will manifest in my drive way". I agree this type of manifestation is difficult to perceive at times and therefore often difficult for people to believe BUT... it works on exactly the same principles as the other type manifestation. Instant manifestation. IE getting your own damn beer or turning on the tv yourself. Therefore it is definately present and definately real and IMO it definately falls under the definition of Thought = Action.

I hope my argument is clear.

[Aquarious]

Thought = Action.

I don't think that definition is right.

I would say it's more like "Thought = consequence" Like you said you could think about getting a beer but have the option of not bothering, what ever decision you make has a consequence not an action Thought = Action gives the impression that Action is the end consequence of the thought process, when in fact, for us all, the end consequence is death. So you might as well say "Thought = Death"

Your definition of manifestation emplies that we are all manifesting our actions by creating what ever we want just by thought and will power or the lack of it... I think thats a bit vague (sounds like a motivational speech from one of my old Sales Manager)

If someone says they can manifest something in reality, I want to see the God damn car appear in the garage out of thin air there and then! 

[Mez]

I don't think that definition is right.

I would say it's more like "Thought = consequence" Like you said you could think about getting a beer but have the option of not bothering, what ever decision you make has a consequence not an action Thought = Action gives the impression that Action is the end consequence of the thought process, when in fact, for us all, the end consequence is death. So you might as well say "Thought = Death"

Well you see discarding the thought itself is an action really. Your thoughts simply change from "I want a beer" to "I want one but I dont have the will to get one so I will stay here"... And now your thought translates into the action of staying right where you are Action is the result of thought. Reaction is the result of Action.

con·se·quence (kns-kwns, -kwns)
n.
1. Something that logically or naturally follows from an action or condition. See Synonyms at effect.
2. The relation of a result to its cause.
3. A logical conclusion or inference.
4. Importance in rank or position: scientists of consequence.
5. Significance; importance: an issue of consequence. See Synonyms at importance.

Reaction is your consequence. Your model simply skips out one step... IMO its incomplete.

How can you say the end consequence of thought is death? thats completey illogical... And how do you arrive at such a conclusion? "I think therefore I am"... because we have thoughts we have conciousness. Even if you mean death of the physical body your statement is still illogical because when we "die" we simply leave our physical body and continue existing. So we dont "die" or stop thinking or existing.

Your definition of manifestation emplies that we are all manifesting our actions by creating what ever we want just by thought and will power or the lack of it... I think thats a bit vague (sounds like a motivational speech from one of my old Sales Manager)

Yes thats exactly what im implying. Although you seem to be confused as you said "...we are all manifesting our actions...". I must correct you by saying that our thoughts manifest AS actions which is an extremely obvious observation if you observe how it is you do anything that you do. You first think about it then make a desicion to act or not to act. If you decide to act your thoughts manifest as the action. If you decide not to act your original thought doesnt manifest, your new thought manifests as not performing the action.

how the hell is THAT vague? its a simple and obvious observation of instant manifestation.

If someone says they can manifest something in reality, I want to see the God damn car appear in the garage out of thin air there and then! 

Then go to the astral and do that because thats the only place where you can get INSTANT manifestation of that magnitude and nature. If you want it in the physical you have to understand it takes time.

[Aquarious]

How can you say the end consequence of thought is death? thats completey illogical... And how do you arrive at such a conclusion? "I think therefore I am"... because we have thoughts we have conciousness. Even if you mean death of the physical body your statement is still illogical because when we "die" we simply leave our physical body and continue existing. So we dont "die" or stop thinking or existing.

Why do you keep saying that my statement is illogical?

1. You have no proof that thoguhts = consciousness.
2. No proof that we leave our physical body when we die.
3. No proof that we don't stop thinking or exsisting when we die.

All of the above is based on yor belief which is only that, a belief. Therefore, Anything contrary is not illogical.

As for thought = action... You very kindly provided the meaning to support that consequence follows an action 

con·se·quence (kns-kwns, -kwns)
n.
1. Something that logically or naturally follows from an action or condition. See Synonyms at effect.
3. A logical conclusion or inference.

So there you have it, you wrote it yourself, I could have quoted all 5 of your meanings but meaning 3 had your favourtie word in it, logical! There will always be a consequence to thoughts but not always an action.

Take care

[Mez]

Why do you keep saying that my statement is illogical?

1. You have no proof that thoguhts = consciousness.
2. No proof that we leave our physical body when we die.
3. No proof that we don't stop thinking or exsisting when we die.

Well I would think that by simply observing my own thoughts I could easily deduct that I am concious. I guess you are unconcious then?

As for all that "proof" you're after... I dont need to prove number one it proves itself. Numbers 2 & 3 I certainly plan on proving for myself at a later date when I contact my father during a projection. I'll be sure to obtain information I could not possibly have known and then verify it. That will certainly be enough proof for me... and its a personal thing.

I could very well say to you...

You have no proof I sat here and typed this so how can you respond to it? Maybe my post just magically appeared.
Nows when you use logic (a system of reasoning) to deduct that the event of me typing the post did indeed occur because that is the only possible way for it to have appeared. But then again you have no proof.

While its nice to be that thorough it can really close you off to lots other possibilities.
If you want proof of something try prove it yourself. Thats the only way to make progress.
Denial of all existence based no the notion you cannot "prove"
that because you you think, that you are concious only leaves you in the dark

As for thought = action... You very kindly provided the meaning to support that consequence follows an action

Yes. Consequence FOLLOWS an action. It isnt the action itself.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. This is the consequence that follows the action.

I think you'll find that party A thought about throwing something at party B then followed through with that action.
Party B then thought about retaliation and followed through with the act of punching Party A.

The reaction of party B was the consequence of the action of party A.
The consequence was brought about by the action. The action was brought about by the thought.

"3. A logical conclusion or inference."

con·clu·sion (kn-klzhn)
n.
1. The close or last part; the end or finish.
2. The result or outcome of an act or process.

In this case the consequence was the conclusion and I used logic (a system of reasoning) to arrive at that conclusion

the consequence is the END result of thinking not the DIRECT result of thinking.
Therefore Thought = Action = Consequence. (the chain just perpetually flows on)
All you're doing is skipping out the middle part which is silly.

Now you say there will always be a consequence to thoughts but not always an action.
You arrive at this conclusion by observing that while you may think about doing something you do not necesarily have to follow through with that particular action. This observation is correct but incomplete IMO you fail to observe that when you decide not to follow through with that particular action you have in fact acted by deciding. That itself is an action... although thats not my point. Once you have decided that you dont want to do that particular action you MUST decide what you DO want to do. That may be "I think I will just stay right here" so then you act accordingly.

The CONSEQUENCE of deciding not to act on your first thought is that you did not do what it is you wanted but you first had to THINK and then decide how to ACT... the consequence followed naturally.

[Aquarious]

This is going to be my last reply because we're going round in circles... You have no idea how to formulate your theory

Without going to the dictionary and looking up the meaning I can tell you that "Action" is a verb (a doing word) By not taking action, one is not acting. Look it up and post the meanings!

But let me explain one last time, by not acting on a thought (which requires no effort so it is not an action) there will be a consequence. There will also, funnily enough, be a consequence if you do act.

I have a feeling you're going to say you're acting by not deciding to act... No! Not acting requires no action, therefore it is not an act... "To think" is an action but "Thoughts" is another story.

You could have said thoughts = decisions, which would be closer but I don't think all thoughts require decisions or actions. You can think of anything without having to deicide whether to act on it or not.

Now in the case of a manifestation, can a 75 year old man think about being a world famous footballer and then it will materialise in time? I got a feeling, no matter how much he thinks about it, or how long he waits, it wont manifest.

There will always be a consequence to anything you decide to do and anything you decide not to do. There will not always be an action.

Thoughts = Thoughts 

[Mez]

we're just going to have to agree to disagree.