Hello everybody :smile:
Once again i did a verification experiment. I will just describe what happened and then we can discuss it.
Ok
Experimental Setting
My girlfriend placed a object on top of the wardrobe. This can be anything, but it should be fairly small, 3-dimensional and unique. She used things like a needle, hair clip, or a ball of wool in the past.
Why this setting?
I use this setting because to me it seems very difficult to guess the object since it can virtually be anything. At least the chance to guess is way smaller then, for example guessing a playing card.
I also figured, it may be easier to perceive a real object compared to a abstract number for example. Also the goal of this experiments is not to proof anything but to explore the possibility of proof.
Outcome
I already did this experiment a couple of times in the past. Did it again twice this morning and the outcome is comparable each time.
Ok so here we go:
1. attempt
I awoke in the morning and still felt the sleep paralysis, so I figured this may be a good opportunity to project. I managed to "crawl" away from me body and moved to the living room (where the wardrobe is at) after about 30 sec my sight became brighter and I saw the wardrobe in front of me (the projection was weak, I almost lost focus a couple of times). I picked the bowl where the object was placed in and looked at it. To my surprise a Butterfly fluttered inside the bowl. I was aware of the fact, that it is highly unlikely that my girlfriend placed a butterfly inside the bowl, but I hoped that the real target may have a relation to a butterfly. That very moment I was pulled back to me body.
I did not move and managed to split from my body again
2. Attempt
I again moved to the wardrobe and this time remembered that Robert bruce once said, I should try to pull energy to the astral body trough breathing to enhance clarity. I did so and felt I vibrating sensation on my forehead (brow chakra)
I again looked inside the bowl and the my surprise saw a living bee that was humming there :eek: . I clearly say the yellow orange color of the bee with black sparkles.
What was the real target?
The real target was a tube of skin cream?! even with fantasy i can't find any match between a Butterfly a bee and skin cream :confused:
Questions
-Am I doing something wrong?
- what could I do to perceive the real object?
-what interpretations and conclusions can i draw from this experiments?
-any hints, ideas, suggestions, comments?
remark
After the second attempt a flow out of the window. There a saw a freeway right behind our house (in reality there is no freeway within 3 miles)
I found this perfectly normal. It didn't even cross my mind that there is no such freeway in reality. it actually felt very familiar! perfectly normal.
Was I not enough aware to do the experiments properly?
Best Regards Tom and sorry for the long post :smile:
Who cares if you missed the intended target..whoohooo for you Tombo!! Don't cha just love that "crawling" away? hehe..
I wish ya'll would stop with the tests and just enjoy yourselves. :grin:
Take Care!
Nay
Hi Tombo, first of all, thank you very much for posting your experiments, I find them very interesting and helpful to anybody who might attempt similar tests.
Let me give you a few brief ideas that just occurred to me about it:
- To begin with, I must say I am not an expert with AP, so I could not tell you what is best to do to try to avoid the distortions between the physical plane and the astral plane. I wish some experienced projectors could give some wise advice about it: useful techniques, mental control, mental power, etc.
- In the Spanish Science forum we have thought of at least three different ways to try to obtain proof of the "reality" of these experiences (*1):
1) Watching the physical plane while you are in the astral plane and reporting on it correctly (that's what you are trying to do now). If this could be done, it would be great because it is the simplest experiment. However, it presents the difficulty of the distortions between the astral and the physical planes: the problem of the RTZ (Real Time Zone).
2) Group OBE. Trying to communicate with another person who is also in the astral plane with you (Ex: two experienced projectors... or anybody, really, for instance, some friend of yours who is sleeping and you wake him up in the astral plane). That way, even if you don't meet with that person in the physical plane (perhaps you could meet with him/her in other planes?), you could still communicate with him/her and exchange relevant information that could be verified later, like in this example:
- "Faraway can be so close..." (Post #1):
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17261
3) Telekinesis (regular or astral). That is, "astral telekinesis" (moving physical objects while you are in the astral plane), or "regular telekinesis" (moving physical objects while you are in the physical plane). Both types of telekinesis will be a valid way to provide proof of anormal phenomenon from the stand point of the scientific community. There are many types of experiments that could be set up if this could be done. For instance, you could use an Analog to Digital Convertor (ADC) to convert the analog signals (of the moving objects) into digital signals that could be input and saved in a computer ("0" and "1"). That's like writing in the hard disk of a computer. We've talked about it in this thread:
- Can you move a physical object from the astral plane?
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21202
Check comments from AstralBorn in page 4 and 5:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21202&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=30
One question: did you try to touch, move or pick up the butterfly or the bee?
In another post I will make further comments about the three methods.
Un saludo. qbeac.
P.S. 1. (*1) Note: when I say "the reality of these experiences", I mean "reality" from the reference point of the physical plane, because in theory there could be other planes just as real as the physical one. So we are taking about "relative realities."
P.S. 2. Addional info and ideas about Group OBE experiments:
- A single controller could perfectly handle several projectors at the same time. The controller would only need to change the target whenever a projector reads it (or sees it). If the target could be change automatically, such as with a computer screen in which the different images were changed frequently, the job of the controller would be very easy.
- If several projectors work with a single controller, the probabilities of some of them meeting in the same place (right by the target) at the same time, increases. That could be a good and interesting experiment all by itself. Later on, according to the accounts of people who may meet in the astral plane by the target, we may design a more sophisticated set up in order to verify "mathematically significant" information that the projectors may exchange among each other, and incorporate all the necessary security measures. This might require for some projectors to stay temporarily in a control environment (Ex: a lab) so that there is not any possible way the exchange information before the experiment is over... but we'll see how things develop, we'll go step by step.
- Another idea: the "projector" may work comfortably at home. The "controller" may be any voluntary student from any university or university hospital, who agrees to sleep that night in a controlled room (locked up, isolated, with an alarm button near by, of course, etc.). There are many students in the universities, and I don't think we will run short of voluntaries.
Now then, the student would have to memorize a specific target that only he will know because it has been automatically generated by a computer which is inside his room (or in a closed box with a glass on it, so that you can look at it but cannot manipulate it). Therefore, nobody else, besides the student, will know what the target is. And the computer will record the target inside the hard drive. The student will be the intermediary between the information (originated in the computer) and the projector, who will have to come and get it from the student.
If a projector can "talk" to the student in the astral plane and the student can "tell" him what the specific information is, next morning we could verify if both pieces of information coincide or not.... Well, something like that, do you get the idea? What do you think? Any suggestions are welcome.
We encourage any projector to help with this common venture. It will be fun and we all may collaborate to build a better world and a better future for mankind (Please, remember Howard Storm's NDE).
Please, if you may know other projectors, tell them about this experiment. Thanks.
Please, if you may know any serious researcher (doctor, scientists, etc.) who may be interested in the experiment, tell them about it.
This experiment may last for several months, maybe a few years. So, let's take it easy, let's go step by step, and let's enjoy the ride.
Hi Tombo, in another thread I posted my opinion about these types of experiments, and since this thread is also related to the same subject, please, let me copy here again the same post I posted at link: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=183504#183504
This is it:
To begin with, I must say that I already believe these experiences are real, among other reasons because I have had several ones myself, and I don't need further proof "for myself" (I have my "Level 1 validation" and that's good enough for me). Also, when I say "real" experiences as opposed to "imaginary" experiences, I mean it from the stand point of the scientific community, which only accepts as "real" the physical world (Ex: there could be many other "real" planes other than the physical plane). So, when I say "real" I mean "real from the reference point of the physical plane."
But if these experiences were to be "real from the reference point of the physical plane", that would have a tremendous importance for the scientific community, because it would imply that a human being can do things that they thought were IMPOSIBLE according to current scientific knowledge. Therefore, they would have to change, modify or update current scientific books. And that's a VERY big deal for modern science (for medicine, psychology, psychiatry, physics, etc.)!
Further more, in the case we could obtain scientific proof that AP are "real" experiences, and considering that nowadays just about everybody can have easy accesses to this "new" knowledge via the modern means of communication (specially via Internet, forums, etc.), it seems to me that we may be on the verge of an evolutionary change in society, or an evolutionary leap forward, and I mean a positive change. In other words, we may be on the verge of a huge paradigm shift, probably bigger and better than the previous ones (Ex: Galileo, Newton, Einstein...).
But in order for that change to happen, or to not be blocked, or to proceed, or to happen with a greater speed, or to consolidate itself, in my opinion, it is necessary to obtain empirical proof, or scientific proof, or conclusive proof that these experiences are "real" and not imaginary (please, remember, "real" according to the physical plane).
The scientific community has the key to facilitate or to promote that change, or the contrary, to block it or delay it. Because if the scientific community officially validates these experiences, that will open the door for the public recognition and acceptance of these experiences by the rest of humanity, and vice versa.
This situation is kind of similar to what happened in Galileo's time: first a great deal of opposition and rejection, but later on, and as the evidence kept piling up, it was simply impossible to deny it.
Therefore, if the final goal we all seem to agree upon is for just about every body in the world to have access to this new knowledge and to try to AP for themselves, so that they can spiritually grow and together build a better world, a happier world, with more justice, more tolerance, more solidarity, more love, etc.... if that's what we all want, it seems to me that the scientific community, for better or worse, has an important role to play in this process right now, because if the scientific community validates theses experiences as "real", the process will accelerate and more people will be able to practice AP sooner. But if the scientific community keeps on believing these experiences are "imaginary", the process will slow down or even be blocked during who knows how many more years or decades.
So, that's why I am personally so much interested in the scientific proof, more for macro-reasons rather than for micro-reasons. Scientific proof could facilitate or even speed up the whole process. But, that's only my personal opinion, and I might be wrong, I am not sure.
I would like to add one more thing:
Regarding the experiments we are doing, we are willing to adjust every single experiment to the circumstances and particularities of any projector, since we are very much aware that this is an experiment with "human beings", and each person may need a different environment to feel comfortable. Also, we believe natural phenomenon does not need to adapt to Science, on the contrary, it is Science the one that should try to adapt to natural phenomenon.
Un saludo, qbeac.
Hi Tombo, just a couple of ideas:
- What if you place more than one object, and not a single one? Perhaps you could use a combination of different objects (even papers of different colours?). Will all of those objects be equally distorted?
- Could you try to place the different objects not too close together, maybe a little or a lot farther apart, or on top of different pieces of furniture? Perhaps there are areas in your room that are more prone to present distortions than other ones?
I say this because William Buhlman relates in his book (Adventures beyond the body) that in his living room there were several tables, and some of them appeared just the same as in the physical plane, but another one did not (It looked like a very old table, or of a different style).
- By the "target object" (the one you don't know what it is), you could place a "reference object" (an object that you already know what it is). This is a similar idea as the "reference numbers" we place in front of the two words of the Agnostic Method, see this link:
- Method to verify if OBE are real or imaginary experiences. Post #
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20907
Read the section titled: "2- Hints to help the projector reading the words correctly:"
Brief excerpt:
A) Write in front of the words 2 distinct numbers that the projector (the one having OBEs) already knows before hand from the physical plane (he can even choose this numbers himself) in order to help him "focus" better on the words. If the projector is not able to recognize the numbers (while in the OBE state) that he already knew from the physical plane, that will be a sign that something is going wrong, and vice versa. For example, the projector already knows the numbers 25 and 47, but not the words, so we would write in the paper something like this:
25 HORSE
47 DOOR
Un saludo, qbeac.
I have a very simple document, made in Excel, taht allows one person to create a random number (5 digits but you can easly have a 2,3.6...digits number).
I just dont know how and where to put the file. If you are interested Tombo, or other person, just pm and give me your email. Btw, its a very easy thing to do with Excel, just ensure that when generating and printing the number, you wont look into it.
Quote from: TomboHello everybody :smile:
Once again i did a verification experiment. I will just describe what happened and then we can discuss it.
Ok
Experimental Setting
My girlfriend placed a object on top of the wardrobe. This can be anything, but it should be fairly small, 3-dimensional and unique. She used things like a needle, hair clip, or a ball of wool in the past.
Why this setting?
I use this setting because to me it seems very difficult to guess the object since it can virtually be anything. At least the chance to guess is way smaller then, for example guessing a playing card.
I also figured, it may be easier to perceive a real object compared to a abstract number for example. Also the goal of this experiments is not to proof anything but to explore the possibility of proof.
Outcome
I already did this experiment a couple of times in the past. Did it again twice this morning and the outcome is comparable each time.
Ok so here we go:
1. attempt
I awoke in the morning and still felt the sleep paralysis, so I figured this may be a good opportunity to project. I managed to "crawl" away from me body and moved to the living room (where the wardrobe is at) after about 30 sec my sight became brighter and I saw the wardrobe in front of me (the projection was weak, I almost lost focus a couple of times). I picked the bowl where the object was placed in and looked at it. To my surprise a Butterfly fluttered inside the bowl. I was aware of the fact, that it is highly unlikely that my girlfriend placed a butterfly inside the bowl, but I hoped that the real target may have a relation to a butterfly. That very moment I was pulled back to me body.
I did not move and managed to split from my body again
2. Attempt
I again moved to the wardrobe and this time remembered that Robert bruce once said, I should try to pull energy to the astral body trough breathing to enhance clarity. I did so and felt I vibrating sensation on my forehead (brow chakra)
I again looked inside the bowl and the my surprise saw a living bee that was humming there :eek: . I clearly say the yellow orange color of the bee with black sparkles.
What was the real target?
The real target was a tube of skin cream?! even with fantasy i can't find any match between a Butterfly a bee and skin cream :confused:
Questions
-Am I doing something wrong?
- what could I do to perceive the real object?
-what interpretations and conclusions can i draw from this experiments?
-any hints, ideas, suggestions, comments?
remark
After the second attempt a flow out of the window. There a saw a freeway right behind our house (in reality there is no freeway within 3 miles)
I found this perfectly normal. It didn't even cross my mind that there is no such freeway in reality. it actually felt very familiar! perfectly normal.
Was I not enough aware to do the experiments properly?
Best Regards Tom and sorry for the long post :smile:
Tombo read this post by Frank and see if theres anything you like:
"Having a lucid-dream is basically the Monroe Focus 22 state, only with a reduced level of conscious awareness. Focus 22 is the first proper realm where thought-equals-direct-action. I say "proper" because, technically, this thought/action effect comes about at the Physical-to-Astral bridge-zone at mental Focus 21.
I agree wholeheartedly with Daniel in his point that one of the biggest challenges is to conciliate formal mechanical logic with multidimensional logic. This hurdle is presented by the fact that, when we project, we don't in turn develop some super-sense of conscious awareness all primed and geared for Astral use. On the contrary, the sense of conscious awareness you take with you to the Astral is the very same one you have now. All of which means you tend to behave like a fish out of water the first 10 or 20 times you project.
To help overcome this hurdle, you need to gain a fair degree of understanding about the basic nature of the Astral environment, and the different ground-rules that apply. We have to gain familiarity with these basic rules in much the same way as we do when first entering the Physical. For example, perhaps the one most basic Physical rule (we gain familiarity with rather quickly!) is that no two physical things can occupy the same physical space.
A person who could not get the hang of this basic rule would forever have difficulties. Not only would they be forever bumping into things, pursuits such as driving a car, for instance, would be nigh on impossible.
Same thing applies with Astral exploration where, without an understanding of the basic ground rules, people will keep running into difficulties.
One of the main difficulties is presented by the fact that releasing emotions within the Astral environment acts as a kind of fuel that goes to creating the circumstances that surround you. This is a *tricky* one to overcome because these circumstances can seem just as real, and equally as lifelike, as circumstances are within the Physical. So if you release a little fear (very common) you will instantly find yourself in a mildly fearful circumstance.
Problem is, finding yourself all of a sudden in a scary situation will normally have the effect of making you even more fearful. So the situation will instantly become that much more scary; which makes you more scared; so it gets that much more scary; which makes you even more scared; so it gets that much more scary; and so on, and so on.......
If that were not bad enough, there is another basic rule which says, "Your experiences and/or circumstances are primarily governed by your expectations." Therefore, if you expect to encounter demons and dragons... then demons and dragons you shall encounter.
But that's not all. There's another basic rule which says, "like instantly attracts like." So it won't only be you having these horrific experiences. Chances are, you'll be surrounded by countless others all suffering the same fate.
Such a group concensus will naturally have the effect of reinforcing your beliefs to a high degree. Bringing into play the basic rule which says, "Your ability to perceive is proportional to your willingness to believe." In other words, the more you believe the Astral is a nasty and dangerous place, the more readily you will perceive it as such.
Bearing all this in mind, you need then to be careful how you go about things... else all manner of reality fluctuations can come about. For example, it is only natural that you should question your experiences. This is a great way to make progress provided the questioning aspect comes about as a result of natural curiosity. Over years of trial and error, I found the best most productive mental state to have while within the Astral realms: is to remain emotionally neutral, while maintaining a natural air of mild curiosity.
However, if the questioning comes about as a result of Doubt, then you need to be ever mindful of the fact that any release of thoughts of Doubt - while within the Astral - will instantly lead to you experiencing circumstances that support whatever level of Doubt you are feeling.
Then, just like in my release of fear example above, finding yourself all of a sudden in a situation where your doubts are justified, will normally have the effect of making you feel even more doubtful; so your circumstances will instantly become such that your doubts are reinforced all the more; which in turn makes you doubt all the more still; and so on, and so on.......
It's unfortunate that now and again I come across a person who once managed to successfully project to the Astral and subsequently concluded that it was all some kind of brain-generated fantasy.
We had someone come onto this BBS last year who was adamant on this. From reading into where they were coming from, it was obvious the person had been projecting to the Focus 22 state while releasing feelings of doubt. Of course, this person's doubts were immediately reinforced each time to the extent where they became utterly convinced their doubts were 110% genuine. All of which then blinded this person to the facts about what had truly taken place.
As for wanting "proof" and such like. A popular idea is the one about having someone else place a playing card or some other object out of sight, and so forth. But what I would suggest is you learn to become more proficient at projection and all the proof you can handle will be fed to you by the bucketload.
Yours,
Frank"
Quote from: NayWho cares if you missed the intended target..whoohooo for you Tombo!! Don't cha just love that "crawling" away? hehe..
Take Care!
Nay
Yes I'm addicted to it hehe....
QuoteI wish ya'll would stop with the tests and just enjoy yourselves. :grin:
Why? :-P
Quote from: qbeacHi Tombo, first of all, thank you very much for posting your experiments, I find them very interesting and helpful to anybody who might attempt similar tests.
Let me give you a few brief ideas that just occurred to me about it:
- To begin with, I must say I am not an expert with AP, so I could not tell you what is best to do to try to avoid the distortions between the physical plane and the astral plane. I wish some experienced projectors could give some wise advice about it: useful techniques, mental control, mental power, etc.
- In the Spanish Science forum we have thought of at least three different ways to try to obtain proof of the "reality" of these experiences (*1):
1) Watching the physical plane while you are in the astral plane and reporting on it correctly (that's what you are trying to do now). If this could be done, it would be great because it is the simplest experiment. However, it presents the difficulty of the distortions between the astral and the physical planes: the problem of the RTZ (Real Time Zone).
2) Group OBE. Trying to communicate with another person who is also in the astral plane with you (Ex: two experienced projectors... or anybody, really). That way, even if you don't meet with that person in the physical plane (perhaps you could meet with him/her in other planes?), you could still communicate with him/her and exchange relevant information that could be verified later, like in this example:
- "Faraway can be so close..." (Post #1):
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17261
3) Moving physical objects while you are in the astral plane. There are many types of experiments that could be set up if this could be done. For instance, you could use an Analog to Digital Convertor (ADC) to convert the analog signals (of the moving objects) into digital signals that could be input and saved in a computer ("0" and "1"). That's like writing in the hard disk of a computer. We've talked about it in this thread:
- Can you move a physical object from the astral plane?
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21202
Check comments from AstralBorn in page 4 and 5:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21202&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=30
One question: did you try to touch, move or pick up the butterfly or the bee?
In another post I will make further comments about the three methods.
Un saludo. qbeac.
(*1) Note: when I say "the reality of these experiences", I mean "reality" from the reference point of the physical plane, because in theory there could be other planes just as real as the physical one. So we are taking about "relative realities."
Thx Qbeac
right know I believe that number one is the easiest method therefore I stick to that. i could try to contact my girlfriend next time though. may try that .-)
And yes I did pick up the bee, the butterfly fluttered away........
I like that:
Quote(*1) Note: when I say "the reality of these experiences", I mean "reality" from the reference point of the physical plane, because in theory there could be other planes just as real as the physical one. So we are taking about "relative realities
Quote from: qbeacHi Tombo, just a couple of ideas:
- What if you place more than one object, and not a single one? Perhaps you could use a combination of different objects (even papers of different colours?). Will all of those objects be equally distorted?
- Could you try to place the different objects not too close together, maybe a little or a lot farther apart, or on top of different pieces of furniture? Perhaps there are areas in your room that are more prone to present distortions than other ones?
I say this because William Buhlman relates in his book (Adventures beyond the body) that in his living room there were several tables, and some of them appeared just the same as in the physical plane, but another one did not (It looked like a very old table, or of a different style).
- By the "target object" (the one you don't know what it is), you could place a "reference object" (an object that you already know what it is). This is a similar idea as the "reference numbers" we place in front of the two words of the Agnostic Method, see this link:
- Method to verify if OBE are real or imaginary experiences. Post #
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20907
Read the section titled: "2- Hints to help the projector reading the words correctly:"
Brief excerpt:
A) Write in front of the words 2 distinct numbers that the projector (the one having OBEs) already knows before hand from the physical plane (he can even choose this numbers himself) in order to help him "focus" better on the words. If the projector is not able to recognize the numbers (while in the OBE state) that he already knew from the physical plane, that will be a sign that something is going wrong, and vice versa. For example, the projector already knows the numbers 25 and 47, but not the words, so we would write in the paper something like this:
25 HORSE
47 DOOR
Un saludo, qbeac.
Yes good ideas I will think about it. actually I expect even the number that i know to have distortions. i already observed that fact in the past. Things that I exactly knew how they should look like were distorted.
But good ideas I should give them a try.
Cu Tom
Quote from: TomboQuote from: NayWho cares if you missed the intended target..whoohooo for you Tombo!! Don't cha just love that "crawling" away? hehe..
Take Care!
Nay
Yes I'm addicted to it hehe....
QuoteI wish ya'll would stop with the tests and just enjoy yourselves. :grin:
Why? :-P
Oh, don't get me wrong..ya'll test away! To me it just takes away from the experience...gives it a sterile feeling..lol. But I know that the forums are quite full of you science minded people and that's cool. :grin:
Nay
Quote from: Ben K[Tombo read this post by Frank and see if theres anything you like:
"Having a lucid-dream is basically the Monroe Focus 22 state, only with a reduced level of conscious awareness. Focus 22 is the first proper realm where thought-equals-direct-action. I say "proper" because, technically, this thought/action effect comes about at the Physical-to-Astral bridge-zone at mental Focus 21.
I agree wholeheartedly with Daniel in his point that one of the biggest challenges is to conciliate formal mechanical logic with multidimensional logic. This hurdle is presented by the fact that, when we project, we don't in turn develop some super-sense of conscious awareness all primed and geared for Astral use. On the contrary, the sense of conscious awareness you take with you to the Astral is the very same one you have now. All of which means you tend to behave like a fish out of water the first 10 or 20 times you project.
To help overcome this hurdle, you need to gain a fair degree of understanding about the basic nature of the Astral environment, and the different ground-rules that apply. We have to gain familiarity with these basic rules in much the same way as we do when first entering the Physical. For example, perhaps the one most basic Physical rule (we gain familiarity with rather quickly!) is that no two physical things can occupy the same physical space.
A person who could not get the hang of this basic rule would forever have difficulties. Not only would they be forever bumping into things, pursuits such as driving a car, for instance, would be nigh on impossible.
Same thing applies with Astral exploration where, without an understanding of the basic ground rules, people will keep running into difficulties.
One of the main difficulties is presented by the fact that releasing emotions within the Astral environment acts as a kind of fuel that goes to creating the circumstances that surround you. This is a *tricky* one to overcome because these circumstances can seem just as real, and equally as lifelike, as circumstances are within the Physical. So if you release a little fear (very common) you will instantly find yourself in a mildly fearful circumstance.
Problem is, finding yourself all of a sudden in a scary situation will normally have the effect of making you even more fearful. So the situation will instantly become that much more scary; which makes you more scared; so it gets that much more scary; which makes you even more scared; so it gets that much more scary; and so on, and so on.......
If that were not bad enough, there is another basic rule which says, "Your experiences and/or circumstances are primarily governed by your expectations." Therefore, if you expect to encounter demons and dragons... then demons and dragons you shall encounter.
But that's not all. There's another basic rule which says, "like instantly attracts like." So it won't only be you having these horrific experiences. Chances are, you'll be surrounded by countless others all suffering the same fate.
Such a group concensus will naturally have the effect of reinforcing your beliefs to a high degree. Bringing into play the basic rule which says, "Your ability to perceive is proportional to your willingness to believe." In other words, the more you believe the Astral is a nasty and dangerous place, the more readily you will perceive it as such.
Bearing all this in mind, you need then to be careful how you go about things... else all manner of reality fluctuations can come about. For example, it is only natural that you should question your experiences. This is a great way to make progress provided the questioning aspect comes about as a result of natural curiosity. Over years of trial and error, I found the best most productive mental state to have while within the Astral realms: is to remain emotionally neutral, while maintaining a natural air of mild curiosity.
However, if the questioning comes about as a result of Doubt, then you need to be ever mindful of the fact that any release of thoughts of Doubt - while within the Astral - will instantly lead to you experiencing circumstances that support whatever level of Doubt you are feeling.
Then, just like in my release of fear example above, finding yourself all of a sudden in a situation where your doubts are justified, will normally have the effect of making you feel even more doubtful; so your circumstances will instantly become such that your doubts are reinforced all the more; which in turn makes you doubt all the more still; and so on, and so on.......
It's unfortunate that now and again I come across a person who once managed to successfully project to the Astral and subsequently concluded that it was all some kind of brain-generated fantasy.
We had someone come onto this BBS last year who was adamant on this. From reading into where they were coming from, it was obvious the person had been projecting to the Focus 22 state while releasing feelings of doubt. Of course, this person's doubts were immediately reinforced each time to the extent where they became utterly convinced their doubts were 110% genuine. All of which then blinded this person to the facts about what had truly taken place.
As for wanting "proof" and such like. A popular idea is the one about having someone else place a playing card or some other object out of sight, and so forth. But what I would suggest is you learn to become more proficient at projection and all the proof you can handle will be fed to you by the bucketload.
Yours,
Frank"
Thx Ben K
You seem to have a good overview of Franks posts :smile: , which is good I mean he is my personal hereo sorts of. So whenever I'm looking for something Frank may have written about I shall talk to you first :wink: :smile:
And Yes I found the things Frank explains very interesting! Indeed i had I slight feel of doubt in my mind when I did the experiements so maybe the Butterfly appeared to reflect that feel?
I will try to stay as neutral as possible next time
thanks you all and cu Tom
Quote from: TomboYes good ideas I will think about it. actually I expect even the number that i know to have distortions. i already observed that fact in the past. Things that I exactly knew how they should look like were distorted.
But good ideas I should give them a try.
Cu Tom
Hi Tom, one of the things our projector has asked us to do is the following, and perhaps you could try something similar with the objects? This is it:
Instead of placing for him
only one target: one piece of paper with the two words written on it and with the two reference numbers he already knows, we are going to use
several similar targets, that is, the reference numbers and the two words will be the same, but the colours of the ink will be different (black, red, blue, etc.), and the material of the paper may also be different (regular paper, cardboard, wood, etc.).
Also, the different targets will be placed in different parts of the room, some of them will be close to each other, and some other ones further apart. The idea is to try to minimize the distortion at least in some of the targets.
He would have to see them all and try to decide if any of them is not distorted... maybe they will all be distorted...??? Maybe only a few of them will be distorted...???
We don't know yet what the outcome of this experiment is going to be because we have not done it yet, but we are about to do it.
Chao. Qbeac.
Hi, we are talking about the RTZ in another forum, and it seems there is a person over there who knows a lot about the RTZ, tricks, how to improve your visual clarity, how to avoid distortions, etc.
You'll see the conversation at link:
http://www.astralweb.org/astralforums/3_2470.html
Heheheh.. Mystic Web!! Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuun!!! :tantrum:
Hi Nay, why do you say that? Is there anything in particular about that web? It is the first time I enter there, and I met a person who seems to be an experienced projector, but other than that, I know nothing about that web. Please, is there any thing wrong with it? Thanks. qbeac.
It was the first place I found when I first started looking on the internet about projection and lets just say that the minute they told me NOT to talk about my dreams to anyone, I promptly left and found the Astral Pulse. Not to mention I do not call anyone, Master...:sick:
We had a very large thread about it a couple years ago and then Adrian was threatened with a lawsuit (laughable) but we took it down just so the guy would stop whining.
If it feels right to you, by all means do not stop going there.
Nay :seeya:
Quotetricks, how to improve your visual clarity, how to avoid distortions, etc.
A simple trick is may be so to say a group-projection, a few people projects simultaneously from the same room...and to the same target. The question what "clarity" etc. of "astral senses" have a group deserves may be the closest attention. At all-may be some simple models are promising purely PRACTICALLY (unlike some psycho-babble). Imagine for example OBE in simple case as linear moving away of subtle bodies from physical body IN THE SAME EUCLIDEAN (PHYSICAL) SPACE in sense of substance dualism. At once in such model you can make many questions! What is the stereo-basis of "astral sight"? What kind of fields perceives the "astral sight" (for example psi-quantum component of EM fields)? Does the resting neuronal activity (brain) influence the "projecting entity"? Etc.etc. :monkey:
Hi everybody, I wish you a Happy New Year 2006!!!
I have been updating a little bit the instructions of the Agnostic Method. You'll find it at link:
- Method to verify if OBE are real or imaginary experiences (See Post #1 to Post #4)
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20907
Also, an experienced projector whose nick is Gav has written a very good article about the RTZ (Real Time Zone) in which he gives hints, suggestions and advice about how to avoid the distortions that sometimes appear between the astral plane and the physical plane. He has already given me his permission to share his document as long as everybody observes his desire of keeping his document intact. You'll see his "copyright instructions" at the end of his document.
This is the link:
- Gav's Word document about the RTZ. I really encourage you to take a look at it.
http://www.future-horizons.co.uk/doc/A_Short_Discourse_On_OBE_Perception.doc
- Converstaion with Gav at lilacsky forum (you may have to register to see it).
Section: Research and Study's
Thread: Are Astral Travel and OBE real or imaginary experi
http://lilacsky.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=study&action=display&thread=1135185352
Chao. qbeac.
Hi Qbeac,
I have now read through the full details of your agnostic method.
To be honest I am very impressed, the entire project seems incredibly well thought out and not just from a scientific point of view but also from a projectors point of view, your expectations are modest and agree with what a projector would see as possible.
The largest problem you will encounter as indeed you have already detailed at length is issues with the projector creating and dreaming the validation target. Validation of a specific target is extremely hard, as the projector knows exactly what they are looking for.
This is not impossible however, and as you state it only requires that a few correct hits are scored for the evidence to be acceptable.
Now depending on how well your projectors are doing a couple of alterations could be made. For example a protocol could be put in place to prevent the projector from knowing in advance what the target should be.
This would require either additional help by a controller as in your level 2 validation, or the use of some computer software. The later would be the most practical as it would still enable projectors to practice alone.
The reason to remove as much knowledge of the target as possible until the point of validation is it makes the target must less tangible to the projector before hand. Instead of knowing that they must see a selection of words, cards or numbers, they know simply that something is going to be in the room which they must validate.
This way the scope for self creation of the target is much reduced.
You raised an excellent idea with the reality check of reading a piece of text clearly before proceeding. This is an excellent guide to focus, even if self created it still implies the idea of focusing to the projector. This could even be extended to include a poster on the wall at the exit location.
Personally once hypnogogic I do not leave my body until I have gained focus and verified the objectivity of the exit location. By placing a poster on the wall in this location that states simply. "Take you time, Focus, Now validate your target" we have an excellent reminder to the projector of what the purpose was and until that poster can be observed an exit should not even be attempted.
It is easier to clean up confusion before an exit is made then handle it once OBE.
You mention meeting people and exchanging information whilst OBE. This is likely to be easier than the other validation method, so long as the people meeting have some kind of connection.
It is a very regular occurrence to gain some information from someone whilst OBE, but often the person who provided the information has no recollection of the meeting. I think this makes it hard to prove the OBE aspect, in that it could be seen as a stronger indication of psychic connection.
It may be possible to describe the location of a person, I have had some experiences where I have been able to very accurately describe the contents, and look of someone else's location whilst they were sleeping. This would no doubt become much harder when used as a specific validation target though.
This is all a very fantastic experiment and I would encourage as many projectors as possible to be willing to take part and help out.
As for my own participation I am happy to help and even to participate in the experiments, I am however pretty much unavailable until the 18th of January due to work commitment. After that point I will happily take part in the experiment.
Also earlier I spoke of software that could be used to randomize the validation target. A piece of software or a web application could be used that would display at random one of the target medium to the variance required mathematically. It could incorporate a delay so that the projector would not have to see even a hint of the target in advance. Words, images or text could be displayed, even audio or video could be played for later validation possibilities. Further to this logging of results could be entered directly into this application or web application so that statistics could be automatically registered as projectors completed the experiments.
Personally I believe it makes most sense to use a web application, as then all results can be compiled onto a central database so you can get a better view of what is happening in real time.
Just so happens that I am a software engineer, and at my point of being available which would be 18th January onwards I would be happy to program the suggested application and website, for free obviously, to the specification of the experiment.
We can talk on this more later and in detail if you would like to proceed as it could be tailored exactly to your needs.
Kind Regards
Gav
Quote from: GavHi Qbeac,
I have now read through the full details of your agnostic method.
To be honest I am very impressed, the entire project seems incredibly well thought out and not just from a scientific point of view but also from a projectors point of view, your expectations are modest and agree with what a projector would see as possible.
The largest problem you will encounter as indeed you have already detailed at length is issues with the projector creating and dreaming the validation target. Validation of a specific target is extremely hard, as the projector knows exactly what they are looking for.
This is not impossible however, and as you state it only requires that a few correct hits are scored for the evidence to be acceptable.
Now depending on how well your projectors are doing a couple of alterations could be made. For example a protocol could be put in place to prevent the projector from knowing in advance what the target should be.
This would require either additional help by a controller as in your level 2 validation, or the use of some computer software. The later would be the most practical as it would still enable projectors to practice alone.
The reason to remove as much knowledge of the target as possible until the point of validation is it makes the target must less tangible to the projector before hand. Instead of knowing that they must see a selection of words, cards or numbers, they know simply that something is going to be in the room which they must validate.
This way the scope for self creation of the target is much reduced.
You raised an excellent idea with the reality check of reading a piece of text clearly before proceeding. This is an excellent guide to focus, even if self created it still implies the idea of focusing to the projector. This could even be extended to include a poster on the wall at the exit location.
Personally once hypnogogic I do not leave my body until I have gained focus and verified the objectivity of the exit location. By placing a poster on the wall in this location that states simply. "Take you time, Focus, Now validate your target" we have an excellent reminder to the projector of what the purpose was and until that poster can be observed an exit should not even be attempted.
It is easier to clean up confusion before an exit is made then handle it once OBE.
You mention meeting people and exchanging information whilst OBE. This is likely to be easier than the other validation method, so long as the people meeting have some kind of connection.
It is a very regular occurrence to gain some information from someone whilst OBE, but often the person who provided the information has no recollection of the meeting. I think this makes it hard to prove the OBE aspect, in that it could be seen as a stronger indication of psychic connection.
It may be possible to describe the location of a person, I have had some experiences where I have been able to very accurately describe the contents, and look of someone else's location whilst they were sleeping. This would no doubt become much harder when used as a specific validation target though.
This is all a very fantastic experiment and I would encourage as many projectors as possible to be willing to take part and help out.
As for my own participation I am happy to help and even to participate in the experiments, I am however pretty much unavailable until the 18th of January due to work commitment. After that point I will happily take part in the experiment.
Also earlier I spoke of software that could be used to randomize the validation target. A piece of software or a web application could be used that would display at random one of the target medium to the variance required mathematically. It could incorporate a delay so that the projector would not have to see even a hint of the target in advance. Words, images or text could be displayed, even audio or video could be played for later validation possibilities. Further to this logging of results could be entered directly into this application or web application so that statistics could be automatically registered as projectors completed the experiments.
Personally I believe it makes most sense to use a web application, as then all results can be compiled onto a central database so you can get a better view of what is happening in real time.
Just so happens that I am a software engineer, and at my point of being available which would be 18th January onwards I would be happy to program the suggested application and website, for free obviously, to the specification of the experiment.
We can talk on this more later and in detail if you would like to proceed as it could be tailored exactly to your needs.
Kind Regards
Gav
Hi Gav, I appreciate very much all your comments. You were right on target. In summary:
We have a good experiment going on, and that's great!These are some brief ideas about the project:
- The Agnostic Method we have developed so far is
Version 1, and we believe it is already, not a perfect version, but a working version. We started with Version 0.001 about a year ago (feb-05) in the Spanish Science forum (//www.100cia.com), so it's been a long way since then. Any improvements anybody may think of will be more than welcome and we will incorporate them to the current Version 1. This could be a project somewhat similar to Wikipedia, which encourages the participation of everybody. So, go ahead, we'll be delighted to hear all your comments.
- There are about 4 or 5 projectors from the Spanish Science forum who are already collaborating with the experiments, plus all the experience we have acquired by talking to many people in the AP forums. Therefore, Version 1 of the Agnostic Method has been the product of a joint effort among several scientists and projectors during a period of about one year by now.
- Again, we are not looking for perfect results (100% correct). You are right when you say that
"a few correct hits will be enough." If they are mathematically significant in comparison to the "control group", they will be enough from the stand point of the scientific community.
- Any alterations, corrections, or improvements to the original protocol of the Agnostic Method that you consider will help you, the projector, we'll make them.
- This is important: We have already gotten in touch with several leading scientists in this field, and some of them have already told us they are interested or/and would be willing to help (Ex: The Monroe Institute, Dr. Jeff Long, Dr. Tart, etc.). Dr. Jeff Long has given permission to post an e-mail he has sent me. I will post it in the next post.
- The idea you give about placing a poster on the wall is very good. We should incorporate that into the protocol.
- Group OBEs are also valid experiments. This system maybe easier for the projectors and a little harder for scientists, since we may have to design a different set up, maybe a more complicated set up than the one for the Agnostic Method of reading the words, but it is not impossible to do at all!!! If necessary, we can do it too. We can discuss further the details of how it should be designed.
A couple of ideas about
Group OBE experiments:- A single controller could perfectly handle several projectors at the same time. The controller would only need to change the target whenever a projector reads it (or sees it). If the target could be change automatically, such as with a computer screen in which the different images were changed frequently, the job of the controller would be very easy.
- If several projectors work with a single controller, the probabilities of some of them meeting in the same place (right by the target) at the same time, increases. That could be a good and interesting experiment all by itself. Later on, according to the accounts of people who may meet in the astral plane by the target, we may design a more sophisticated set up in order to verify "mathematically significant" information that the projectors may exchange among each other, and incorporate all the necessary security measures. This might require for some projectors to stay temporarily in a control environment (Ex: a lab) so that there is not any possible way the exchange information before the experiment is over... but we'll see how things develop, we'll go step by step.
- Another idea: the "projector" may work comfortably at home.
The "controller" may be any voluntary student from any university or university hospital, who agrees to sleep that night in a controlled room (locked up, isolated, with an alarm button near by, of course, etc.). There are many students in the universities, and I don't think we will run short of voluntaries.
Now then, the student would have to memorize a specific target that only he will know because it has been automatically generated by a computer which is inside his room (or in a closed box with a glass on it, so that you can look at it but cannot manipulate it). Therefore, nobody else, besides the student, will know what the target is. And the computer will record the target inside the hard drive. The student will be the intermediary between the information (originated in the computer) and the projector, who will have to come and get it from the student.
If a projector can "talk" to the student in the astral plane and the student can "tell" him what the specific information is, next morning we could verify if both pieces of information coincide or not.... Well, something like that, do you get the idea? What do you think? Any suggestions are welcome.
We encourage any projector to help with this common venture. It will be fun and we all may collaborate to build a better world and a better future for mankind (Please, remember Howard Storm's NDE).
-------------------
Please, if you may know other projectors, tell them about this experiment. Thanks.
Please, if you may know any serious researcher (doctor, scientists, etc.) who may be interested in the experiment, tell them about it.
This experiment may last for several months, maybe a few years. So, let's take it easy, let's go step by step, and let's enjoy the ride.
We'll stay in touch. Have a nice day. qbeac.
Hi everybody, Dr. Jeff Long, one the founders of the NDERF (//www.nderf.org, Jody Long is his wife and the webmaster of that site), has given me permission to post an e-mail he sent me with his opinion of the experiments. We have also talked to other scientists and researchers, such as people from The Monroe Institute, Dr. Tart, and others, and some of them have already told us they interested in the experiments. We will keep you updated about the specifics of these talks. If any of you feel like talking to them directly, feel free to do it. Or if you may know any other serious researcher, please, tell them about this experiment. Thanks. qbeac.
This is Dr. Jeff Long e-mail:
Greetings!
Thanks for letting me know about this! I am very happy that there is such interest in this in Spain! I have reviewed your "Agnostic Method", and it is certainly very sound. If possible, another way to do this that might be even more valid, would be to develop a computer program that could be started. There would be a delay, and then the program would show a series of ordered words, pictures, and background color. These combinations of words, pictures and background color could alternate every five minutes or so. If an OBEr thinks they saw this, they could e-mail someone, and see if what they saw was possible from the programming. Of course there is the possibility of fraud with this, but for those sincere in taking the test, it could work. If what they saw remotely was a possible combination, this would be strong evidence. For example, the probability of getting one of 5 colors right, one of 100 words and one of 100 pictures would be one in (5*100*100) or one in 50,000, or 0.00002. Of course with more word or picture options, the possible combinations would be even larger. This might select out OBErs for further study. Please feel free to put this idea on the forum, and see if anyone wants to write the program (such as in Visual Basic). Please let me know if this idea goes anywhere. I do not have the skills to personally write such a program.
Best regards, -Jeff Long
Another e-mail from Dr. Long:
"Thanks for your very thoughtful comments! We (Jody and I) will be glad to talk about the Agnostic Method when we encounter any interested researchers. I think your proposal to go through level 1, 2 and 3 is a very good idea. Please keep us informed of postings on the 100cia.com web site. We would be very interested to hear if anyone states they have been able to see hidden targets.
Best regards, -Jeff"
P.S. Information about Dr. Jeffrey P. Long, MD:
Curriculum Vitae: http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/Dr-Jeffrey-Long-MD-FA9FC3D6.cfm
Specialties: Diagnostic Radiology, Hematology, Radiation Oncology, Radiological Physics, Radiology
Location: -1003 South 5th Street. Tacoma, Washington (WA) 98405
http://www.nderf.org/
- Newest Multimedia Video presentation from Dr. Jeff Long and Jody Long:
Soulmates 2004, Jody & Jeff
Presentation 44 min .wmv 43 MB"
http://www.nderf.org/SoulMate%206-04%20Presentation%20for%20Web.wmv
Methodology for Investigating the Hypothesis of
Anomalous Remote Perceptions as Objective Phenomena
Nelson Abreu, Science of Self Club, University of Florida
http://cref.tripod.com/tucsonpaper.doc
QuoteEven if one considers the question of whether the OBE is real as anachronistic, and even if lucid projection can provide us with a rough sketch of how the consciousness and the brain interact we do not know how this occurs in detail. Lucid projectors (as well as clairvoyants and the practitioners of numerous vital energy, or chi, practices) observe a system or "body" of subtle energies that seems to form the interface and glue between the physical body and a more subtle body (psychosoma). The interactions of this vehicle (holochakra) seem to be responsible for interpersonal or transpersonal and parapsychic or paranormal phenomena. But how exactly does information and energy flow to and from the physical body? Is there a para-brain that the brain communicates with? The answer to this question will emerge when the "two ends meet" – neuroscience and neurology from one side and projectiology and paraneurology from the other. Each answer, generates more questions which remain such as: "why does the consciousness need a psychoma to communicate with the brain? Is the consciousness inserted in the parabrain or does it use yet another interface? If so, why? If these "bodies" exist in the same space-time are they in different frequencies or densities of reality with different degrees of insubstantiality? If the consciousness existed before birth, then why wouldn't we remember it?
In a 2002 BBC Radio debate, Dr. Olaf Blanke revealed that the epileptic patient - who unexpectedly reported out-of-body perceptions when her right-angular gyrus was stimulated - actually made visual observations of the operating room that the conventional scientific paradigm cannot explain. Even though he understandably excluded these details from the article published in the journal Nature, the Bern neuroscientist did not dismiss the possibility of the objective out-of-body experience, stating many more studies should be carried out.
Facilitation of replicable projectability...
Non-invasive electromagnetic stimulation...
Hi skropenfield, the article you have indicated sounds very interesting, just like the other ones you told us before. Congratulations for all of them (I don't know how you can get such good articles :smile: ). These are the previous ones, just in case somebody missed them:
- Alternative Vision or Direct Vision Phenomenon. Russian study about people who are able to see with their eyes covered:
http://www.matrixf.com/Directvision.pdf
- Teleportation Physics Study (telekinesis)
AIR FORCE RESEARCH LABORATORY. AIR FORCE MATERIEL COMMAND
EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE CA 93524-7048
APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE; DISTRIBUTION UNLIMITED.[/b]
Eric W. Davis. Warp Drive Metrics
4849 San Rafael Ave. Las Vegas, NV 89120
August 2004. Special Report
http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf
Now then, I have tried to see the complete article of your previous post (http://cref.tripod.com/tucsonpaper.doc), but there seems to be something wrong with the link. Please, skropenfield, could you check it out? Thanks.
--------------
I have a question for everybody who may be able to Astral Project:
Please, everybody, do you think it would be possible for you to have a "meeting" in the astral plane with another person, and exchange information between the two of you? Have you ever tried that?
For more details about what I mean with the "meeting", please, see Post #3, pag. 1 of this same thread:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21581&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0
... and specifically the topic of Group OBE, which you'll find in section "2)" as well as in the second Post Statement of that post:
This would be an example of a meeting in the astral plane:
- "Faraway can be so close..." (Post #1):
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17261
Thanks a lot. qbeac.
QuoteI have tried to see the complete article of your previous post (http://cref.tripod.com/tucsonpaper.doc), but there seems to be something wrong with the link
Try right click- Save Target As...or
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:lXtZ1kE3tiEJ:cref.tripod.com/tucsonpaper.doc
Quote from: qbeac
Please, everybody, do you think it would be possible for you to have a "meeting" in the astral plane with another person, and exchange information between the two of you? Have you ever tried that?
hello qbeac
Thanks for keeping my thread alive :smile:
Well i think there is the problem of time when meeting somebody. One would assume that two persons have to be out at the same time in the same place and both need clear conciousness in order to meet . That, i think is pretty hard to do. therefore i would assume it is easier to do experiements with objects then with meeting people.
On the other hands this may not really be so! Maybe our understanding of the astral, consciousness and time is much to limited. is time really linear in the astral? maybe not, maybe i can meet you today and you meet me tomorrow?! Well, as a physicist I don't like time travel that much so..........Well, actually i like them, but you know, I don't wanna think about them too much :lol:
Quote from: TomboQuote from: qbeac
Please, everybody, do you think it would be possible for you to have a "meeting" in the astral plane with another person, and exchange information between the two of you? Have you ever tried that?
hello qbeac
Thanks for keeping my thread alive :smile:
Well i think there is the problem of time when meeting somebody. One would assume that two persons have to be out at the same time in the same place and both need clear conciousness in order to meet . That, i think is pretty hard to do. therefore i would assume it is easier to do experiements with objects then with meeting people.
On the other hands this may not really be so! Maybe our understanding of the astral, consciousness and time is much to limited. is time really linear in the astral? maybe not, maybe i can meet you today and you meet me tomorrow?! Well, as a physicist I don't like time travel that much so..........Well, actually i like them, but you know, I don't wanna think about them too much :lol:
Yeah, but it wouldnt matter though right? I read somewhere that time really has no meaning on the astral plane, you can go to the past or even see the future. (I could be totally wrong here, so yeah, no quoting me on this!) So even if the other person projected "tomorrow" just the desire to meet them would mean you could?
But if thats true... then that could also mean that you could both just arrive at totally different times and still meet because you time travelled...
Man, talk about a headache lol.
Hi everybody,
The debate we are having in the Spanish science forum 100cia.com about OBE and AP is raising controversy. We are talking about the possibility of a scientific paradigm shift in case OBE were to be proven to be real experiences as opposed to imaginary ones. Right now many scientists from the scientific community believe they are only imaginary experiences.
So, I would like to ask all of you two very important questions regarding this topic:
1) Please, has any of you ever tried doing a GROUP OBE? That is, have you ever been able to meet with somebody else in the astral plane?
2) In case you have, what kind of information do you think you could exchange with another person in those circumstances?
For instance, could you tell that person a single "specific word" which that person could remember and report about it later? Or perhaps you could describe to that person a very specific "whatever" which that person could understand and report on it later...???
Please, we would appreciate very much if you could elaborate a little bit about this issue.
Thank you very much. qbeac.
P.S. 1. In case you would like to see the Spanish debate, these are two links to it:
- ¡ Cómo se crea un Paradigma !
http://www.100cia.com/opinion/foros/showthread.php?t=6346&page=1&pp=10
- Post #362, pag. 37. Definición de "Veridical NDE"
http://www.100cia.com/opinion/foros/showthread.php?p=41601#post41601
P.S. 2. For more information about Group OBE and other types of valid experiments, see:
- Post #3, pag.1. Types of experiments (Agnostic Method, Group OBE, telekinesis)
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21581
Hello qbeac
I heard about several meetings but usually I read about such things in the dream forums. It is usually called shared dreaming.
For example you can find some reports here:
http://forum.ld4all.com/viewforum.php?f=6
for example:
http://forum.ld4all.com/viewtopic.php?t=10238
or
http://ld4all.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3340
There were also once two members there, called R3TRO and Freecube that claimed they could meet frequently in their dreams and exchange infos. Can't find that post right now though.
I personally think it is possible, but do not have any personal proof for it.
regards, Tom
Hi everybody, a Conference about human consciousness is going to be held next April-06 in Tucson, Arizona. I have been checking out the program of the conference and it sounds very interesting. Here it is:
- Conference: "Toward a Science of Consciousness 2006."
Universidad de Arizona. USA. April 4-8, 2006, Tucson Convention Center, Tucson, Arizona
http://www.consciousness.arizona.edu/tucson2006.htm
- List of participants in the Conference:
http://www.consciousness.arizona.edu/concurrents.htm
- Intracellular and Quantum Aspects of Consciousness (VERY INTERESTING)
Paavo Pylkkanen, Nancy J. Woolf, Jack Tuszynski, Stuart Hameroff
http://www.consciousness.arizona.edu/qm.htm
Additionally, I don't know if you already know about Penrose-Hameroff model of consciousness, which is based on the possible relation between the brain and Quantum Mechanics. Here it is:
- Penrose-Hameroff model of consciousness. "Orch OR" Model for Consciousness".
http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/penrose-hameroff/orchOR.html
http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orch-OR
--------------------
One more thing to everyone in general:
In case any of you has ever tried "Group OBEs", that is, having a meeting with other people in the astral plane, please, let us know. Thanks a lot (Note: for more information about Group OBE experiments, see Post #3 of this same thread).
Chao. qbeac.
Wow :shock:
That seems to become a very big deal. It would be very cool if you manage it to proove OBEs once and for all :grin:
Quote from: FrankBearing all this in mind, you need then to be careful how you go about things... else all manner of reality fluctuations can come about. For example, it is only natural that you should question your experiences. This is a great way to make progress provided the questioning aspect comes about as a result of natural curiosity. Over years of trial and error, I found the best most productive mental state to have while within the Astral realms: is to remain emotionally neutral, while maintaining a natural air of mild curiosity.
However, if the questioning comes about as a result of Doubt, then you need to be ever mindful of the fact that any release of thoughts of Doubt - while within the Astral - will instantly lead to you experiencing circumstances that support whatever level of Doubt you are feeling.
Then, just like in my release of fear example above, finding yourself all of a sudden in a situation where your doubts are justified, will normally have the effect of making you feel even more doubtful; so your circumstances will instantly become such that your doubts are reinforced all the more; which in turn makes you doubt all the more still; and so on, and so on.......
It's unfortunate that now and again I come across a person who once managed to successfully project to the Astral and subsequently concluded that it was all some kind of brain-generated fantasy.
We had someone come onto this BBS last year who was adamant on this. From reading into where they were coming from, it was obvious the person had been projecting to the Focus 22 state while releasing feelings of doubt. Of course, this person's doubts were immediately reinforced each time to the extent where they became utterly convinced their doubts were 110% genuine. All of which then blinded this person to the facts about what had truly taken place.
I really want to know who he was talking about. ;)
Quote from: TelosQuote from: FrankBearing all this in mind, you need then to be careful how you go about things... else all manner of reality fluctuations can come about. For example, it is only natural that you should question your experiences. This is a great way to make progress provided the questioning aspect comes about as a result of natural curiosity. Over years of trial and error, I found the best most productive mental state to have while within the Astral realms: is to remain emotionally neutral, while maintaining a natural air of mild curiosity.
However, if the questioning comes about as a result of Doubt, then you need to be ever mindful of the fact that any release of thoughts of Doubt - while within the Astral - will instantly lead to you experiencing circumstances that support whatever level of Doubt you are feeling.
Then, just like in my release of fear example above, finding yourself all of a sudden in a situation where your doubts are justified, will normally have the effect of making you feel even more doubtful; so your circumstances will instantly become such that your doubts are reinforced all the more; which in turn makes you doubt all the more still; and so on, and so on.......
It's unfortunate that now and again I come across a person who once managed to successfully project to the Astral and subsequently concluded that it was all some kind of brain-generated fantasy.
We had someone come onto this BBS last year who was adamant on this. From reading into where they were coming from, it was obvious the person had been projecting to the Focus 22 state while releasing feelings of doubt. Of course, this person's doubts were immediately reinforced each time to the extent where they became utterly convinced their doubts were 110% genuine. All of which then blinded this person to the facts about what had truly taken place.
I really want to know who he was talking about. ;)
Ah, but the problem with this is that it is one sided. While Frank admits being doubtful will create manifestations to reinforce that doubt. Being a full believer will create manifestations to reinforce that belief. On both occasions the manifestations might hold no truth, they are just relfections of ones desire. Either way, If we follow this as truth, fully believing is as bad as fully doubting as both will lead down a self created delusionary path.
Even slightly believing or doubting will eventually lead to the same place if the above is right:
Quote
However, if the questioning comes about as a result of Doubt, then you need to be ever mindful of the fact that any release of thoughts of Doubt - while within the Astral - will instantly lead to you experiencing circumstances that support whatever level of Doubt you are feeling.
So the doubt or belief will be reinforced over time until it blinds us to any truth?
So which way are we supposed to walk? :confused:
He said follow the way of natural curiosity. If the same logic applies, one would find that this will naturally lead to more curiosity, hopefully retaining the openness that doubt offers without gullibility.
Quote from: TelosHe said follow the way of natural curiosity. If the same logic applies, one would find that this will naturally lead to more curiosity, hopefully retaining the openness that doubt offers without gullibility.
I can see the truth in that. But it seems there are few who are naturally curious and not bound by a belief system for either OBEs being more than brain induced, or OBEs actually being a product of the brain.
I guess the point of my previous post was that it made much of being too doubtful without touching on the fact that having too much belief can be equally as harmfull.
Quote from: MisterJingoQuote from: TelosHe said follow the way of natural curiosity. If the same logic applies, one would find that this will naturally lead to more curiosity, hopefully retaining the openness that doubt offers without gullibility.
I can see the truth in that. But it seems there are few who are naturally curious and not bound by a belief system for either OBEs being more than brain induced, or OBEs actually being a product of the brain.
I guess the point of my previous post was that it made much of being too doubtful without touching on the fact that having too much belief can be equally as harmfull.
What about people (as children) who have OBEs naturally and don't even know they're not supposed to happen? They really have no expectation- so IMO if there is an experience you can 'trust' as not having being influenced by any expectations it's the kind children have. Now, that doesn't mean it's not created by the brain, but at least the experience itself isn't created of influenced by expectation (at least the first few times.) Maybe that is why my experiences as a child projector were vastly different from the way they go now as an adult.
So maybe we should 'become like children', as one once said, and approach the situation the same way a child would. If we can.
Quote from: MisterJingoQuote from: TelosHe said follow the way of natural curiosity. If the same logic applies, one would find that this will naturally lead to more curiosity, hopefully retaining the openness that doubt offers without gullibility.
I can see the truth in that. But it seems there are few who are naturally curious and not bound by a belief system for either OBEs being more than brain induced, or OBEs actually being a product of the brain.
I guess the point of my previous post was that it made much of being too doubtful without touching on the fact that having too much belief can be equally as harmfull.
If only that were the problem in todays world haha :grin:
I think he didnt touch on the area of releasing too much belief because that isnt a typical reaction to the dream environment. Most people fall into the trap of releasing fear, doubt, or anxiety while in that environment. Which of course causes more manifestations of that fear, doubt, or anxiety. Not too many people have the balls to go the other way.
They key is simply not to release any emotional energy. it takes awhile to get used to im sure but if you dont you will get "reality fluctuations" galore, which is basically just when an emotion manifests itself around you. emotions are a necessary part of physical life but in other areas of reality they can be a hindrance. good thing we have free will ;)
hello everybody
I found your discussion very interesting unfortunately I do not have the time right now to join in.
I would recommend the following article to you guys cause it touches similar questions. It is pretty long but very well written. I found the section about "Dynamic and static matter" especially intriguing.
http://www.future-horizons.co.uk/doc/A_Short_Discourse_On_OBE_Perception.doc
I wonder what Frank and Gav would think of each others theories?
Regards Tom
Quote from: CFTraveler
What about people (as children) who have OBEs naturally and don't even know they're not supposed to happen? They really have no expectation- so IMO if there is an experience you can 'trust' as not having being influenced by any expectations it's the kind children have. Now, that doesn't mean it's not created by the brain, but at least the experience itself isn't created of influenced by expectation (at least the first few times.) Maybe that is why my experiences as a child projector were vastly different from the way they go now as an adult.
So maybe we should 'become like children', as one once said, and approach the situation the same way a child would. If we can.
I agree with what you say, what I meant by "too much belief" is that in the example given by frank, in the astral doubt was reinforced and so the projector proved it wasn't real (if this proof was real or not we cannot say). But the same again, if someone buys into a belief system (such as Monroe's, or Bruce's etc) purely on faith and believes it totally (I see a lot of that) then that belief will be reinforced and they will prove to themselves such a thing (reality taking that form) is true.
I wasn't talking about belief in being able to project or not (this seems to be accomplishable irregardless of outlook or belief), but what we find, and pictures of reality we build once we are projecting.
So where is the truth in all this? Doubt creates self-fulfilling fantasy; too much belief creates such fantasy yet again.
Are we capable of finding any form of universal truth when projecting? Some will say no, but I think behind all experience there will be core elements, we just interpret them differently. If we don't have enough belief we might miss them or misinterpret them, the same again if we have too much.
A child will take the experiences at face value – and so will perhaps get closer to any kind of truth, someone with strong belief either way will interpret those experiences in context of their belief – and so might miss things, or misinterpret things.
I'm not sure if this makes it any clearer?
:confused:
Ie if you have totally integrated a belief such as Bruces view of the astral into your own, any experience you have will be fitted into that belief system, so you forever work within the confines of it - rather than being open to whatever happens.
Ps. I am in no way saying Bruces or Monroes view is wrong, just that their view and interpretation is personal to them - and perhaps takes its form due to their life experiences, outlook, personality, subconsious etc. And so fitting anothers belief system onto ourself might see it 'ill-fit'.
Just to add something. Perhaps my outlook as to the uses of AP is incompatible with others. I see AP as a means of furthering knowledge of self and reality, wheras others might see it simply as a means in itself.
Quote from: Ben K
If only that were the problem in todays world haha :grin:
I think he didnt touch on the area of releasing too much belief because that isnt a typical reaction to the dream environment. Most people fall into the trap of releasing fear, doubt, or anxiety while in that environment. Which of course causes more manifestations of that fear, doubt, or anxiety. Not too many people have the balls to go the other way.
They key is simply not to release any emotional energy. it takes awhile to get used to im sure but if you dont you will get "reality fluctuations" galore, which is basically just when an emotion manifests itself around you. emotions are a necessary part of physical life but in other areas of reality they can be a hindrance. good thing we have free will ;)
Ah, perhaps I misunderstood what Frank meant. He seemed to suggest a sceptic was projecting to F22, and because their questioning was from a position of doubt ("if the questioning comes about as a result of Doubt"), all they found was things to reinforce their doubt. I didn't read it as how fear reactions can have an immediate effect on astral environments, but a persons intentions will eventually see those intentions satisfied (i.e. total doubt will beget proof you were right to doubt).
Something I seem to observe frequently is that people will first discover the OBE state is true, and because the OBE state is true, the neutral curiosity goes out of the window and they take on board a whole belief system of reality, the astral and anything. After all my years of projecting I wouldn't dare to assume I know the workings of reality – I do know a lot of peoples theories, but I haven't validated or rejected any in their entirely due to lack of direct knowledge and experience.
Other people make the mistake that because a 'guru' eventually led them to project, then all of that guru's knowledge is true and they believe it as a known.
That's what I meant by too much belief. People project with belief they take as 'knowns', and so their preconceptions are eventually validated, not because they are necessarily true, but because the astral seems to reflect and reinforce what we believe.
If we are bound within a belief, and all astral experiences are reflecting this belief, then we will literally only encounter things contained within this beliefs philosophy. Sort of like a deep preconception will either bend an experience in the way of the preconception, or stop us experiencing what we would have otherwise.
I agree with you a lot. Monroe system is just one behind thousand of them. We have all our personnal belief of AP . Monroe method are just there to help you and make thing clear , they are not necessary all true.
Believe in your own self.
Hi Tombo and everyone else:
Tombo, I think you'll like this (perhaps you already know about it?):
- The Structure of the Multiverse:
NASA (APOD): http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060301.html
Multiverse (wikipedia): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse
- Quantum Physics, abstract. quant-ph/0104033
From: David Deutsch [view email]. Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 19:47:57 GMT (421kb)
The Structure of the Multiverse
http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0104033
Pdf format: http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0104033
http://arxiv.org/ftp/quant-ph/papers/0104/0104033.pdf
---------------------------
Question to everybody:
Perhaps in an OBE a person is able to get into some of the others universes?
In case anybody is interested in trying "Group OBE" experiments to meet other people in the astral plane and exchange verifiable information among each other, please, contact us. We are interested in performing those types of experiments. Thanks.
Take care. qbeac.
Quote from: TomboHello everybody :smile:
Once again i did a verification experiment. I will just describe what happened and then we can discuss it.
Ok
Experimental Setting
My girlfriend placed a object on top of the wardrobe. This can be anything, but it should be fairly small, 3-dimensional and unique. She used things like a needle, hair clip, or a ball of wool in the past.
Why this setting?
I use this setting because to me it seems very difficult to guess the object since it can virtually be anything. At least the chance to guess is way smaller then, for example guessing a playing card.
I also figured, it may be easier to perceive a real object compared to a abstract number for example. Also the goal of this experiments is not to proof anything but to explore the possibility of proof.
Outcome
I already did this experiment a couple of times in the past. Did it again twice this morning and the outcome is comparable each time.
Ok so here we go:
1. attempt
I awoke in the morning and still felt the sleep paralysis, so I figured this may be a good opportunity to project. I managed to "crawl" away from me body and moved to the living room (where the wardrobe is at) after about 30 sec my sight became brighter and I saw the wardrobe in front of me (the projection was weak, I almost lost focus a couple of times). I picked the bowl where the object was placed in and looked at it. To my surprise a Butterfly fluttered inside the bowl. I was aware of the fact, that it is highly unlikely that my girlfriend placed a butterfly inside the bowl, but I hoped that the real target may have a relation to a butterfly. That very moment I was pulled back to me body.
I did not move and managed to split from my body again
2. Attempt
I again moved to the wardrobe and this time remembered that Robert bruce once said, I should try to pull energy to the astral body trough breathing to enhance clarity. I did so and felt I vibrating sensation on my forehead (brow chakra)
I again looked inside the bowl and the my surprise saw a living bee that was humming there :eek: . I clearly say the yellow orange color of the bee with black sparkles.
What was the real target?
The real target was a tube of skin cream?! even with fantasy i can't find any match between a Butterfly a bee and skin cream :confused:
Questions
-Am I doing something wrong?
- what could I do to perceive the real object?
-what interpretations and conclusions can i draw from this experiments?
-any hints, ideas, suggestions, comments?
remark
After the second attempt a flow out of the window. There a saw a freeway right behind our house (in reality there is no freeway within 3 miles)
I found this perfectly normal. It didn't even cross my mind that there is no such freeway in reality. it actually felt very familiar! perfectly normal.
Was I not enough aware to do the experiments properly?
Best Regards Tom and sorry for the long post :smile:
There has always been a lot of talk in regards to objectively proving the validity of astral projection. And even those individuals with years of experience seem to be inept when it comes down to verifiable proof.
This is my theory: what I think is that if you have not established certain bio-electrical, physiological connections within your physical system (and in particular, your brain), establishing indisputable proof is pretty much impossible. Think about it. You want to verify things in the physical world, right? The physical brain is your anchor and connection to the physical world. When the typical person projects, their connection to the physical body is weak. This is evidenced by the fact that the physical body becomes unconscious when you are out. It has been said and experienced many times that when you're in the astral and you think of your body, you are instantly drawn back to it. So it's like an "either/or" scenario. Either you have body/physical-world consciousness, or you have out-of-body/alternate-reality consciousness.
I think what happens when we project is that we are entering alternate realities. This makes verifying things in our physical world impossible (at least with 100% accuracy). In order to verify things in our physical world, I believe that your link to this world, the body, must be conditioned in such a way as to establish certain physiological connections. So in a sense, rather than splintering away from the body, you are instead basically expanding your body.
The other day I had a brief experience of being able to feel things around me without using my normal sense of touch. That is very much what I'm talking about. If you can expand your body so that you can feel objects around you without using your physical body (
with you and your physical body being 100% fully conscious and aware) that is what I'm getting at. And if you can
feel, it's only natural that that would lead to actually being able to
see (without using your physical eyes). But you need to establish a clear and direct connection with your physical brain in order to properly view all of these "outside" things. It takes so much work though, but I am pushing forward. I haven't posted anything here in a very long time, but I've never stopped in regards to my practice.
Hi Nostic, you say:
"This makes verifying things in our physical world impossible (at least with 100% accuracy)."
Well, we are not looking nor we need 100% accuracy. On the contrary, a much lower accuracy would be more than enough to show there is indeed an anomaly which does not have an explanation according to current scientific knowledge, because we are going to compare the results of "the group of projectors" with the "control group"... that is, we are only looking for statistical significant differences between the two groups.
We have explained that with much more detail in this post:
- Post #8, pag. 8. Detailed explanation of the Agnostic Method in english:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=180207#180207
Quote from: NosticThere has always been a lot of talk in regards to objectively proving the validity of astral projection. And even those individuals with years of experience seem to be inept when it comes down to verifiable proof....(...)
Hi Nostic, thanks for your comments, but what do you think about the following things:
- In Post #10, pag. 2 of this same thread, Gav thinks "reading the words is extremely hard but it is not impossible":
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21581&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=10
Gav's Word document about the RTZ (a must read!):
http://www.future-horizons.co.uk/doc/A_Short_Discourse_On_OBE_Perception.doc
- Jerry Gross, a very experienced projector, has been able to do really amazing things, such as this one (http://www.near-death.com/gross.html):
Jerry says, quote: "I've been asked to prove this many times, in radio shows, and at the Whole Life Expo at the Los Angeles Convention Center where I traveled astrally from St. Paul, Minnesota to Los Angeles and moved a box they had set up on the stage for me."
- We believe there must be some type of connection between the astral and the physical plane because of what happens during a "Veridical NDE":
http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/personalitystudies/case_types.cfm#OOB
Definition of Veridical NDE: **experiencer acquires verifiable information that they could not have obtained by any normal means"
- The following is one example of a "Veridical NDE" included in The Lancet study by Dr. Pim van Lommel (2001). So, the case of "the patient who lost his dentures while being resuscitated after a cardiac arrest" seems to imply there must be a connection between the astral and the physical plane. You'll be able to see it here (inside this article, look for the word "dentures"):
http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLancet_NDE.htm
- Besides reading the words,
there are other types of methods which could also provide scientific proof, for instance, see Post #3, pag. 1 of this same thread: "2)
Group OBE. Trying to communicate with another person who is also in the astral plane with you... and exchange different types of "verifiable information" between the two of you (Note: this "verifiable information" could be more flexible than just two plain words)."
Please, Nostic, do you think this last method (Group OBE) would be possible to do?
Thanks. qbeac.
Quote from: qbeacHi Nostic, you say:
"This makes verifying things in our physical world impossible (at least with 100% accuracy)."
Well, we are not looking nor we need 100% accuracy. On the contrary, a much lower accuracy would be more than enough to show there is indeed an anomaly which does not have an explanation according to current scientific knowledge, because we are going to compare the results of "the group of projectors" with the "control group"... that is, we are only looking for statistical significant differences between the two groups.
We have explained that with much more detail in this post:
- Post #8, pag. 8. Detailed explanation of the Agnostic Method in english:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=180207#180207
Hi qbeac
I can totally understand where you are coming from when you say this. But I have to say, for me personally, I would like 100% accuracy. Not necessarily to prove anything to the world. But so that I can say without question that I am absolutely clear in what I'm seeing and what I'm experiencing. Am I seeing the "real" physical world or not? That's not the important point really. What is important is weather or not I'm seeing the physical world
when I believe that I am. For me it's about clarity.
Now, people can make many claims as to what they can do. And, their abilities may in fact be 100% real. That is entirely possible. But what I want is a record; a public record. I admire those who have tried experiments on these boards. But so far, it's clear that no one has stepped up to the plate and showed us
clearly and unquestionably that they have the ability to remotely observe or manipulate specific targets in our physical reality.
And again, it's not particularly important to me to prove anything to the world. I'd just like to... make things a bit more real. Not only for myself, but also for everyone else who has an interest in these kinds of subjects.
Quote from: qbeac
- Besides reading the words, there are other types of methods which could also provide scientific proof, for instance, see Post #3, pag. 1 of this same thread: "2) Group OBE. Trying to communicate with another person who is also in the astral plane with you... and exchange different types of "verifiable information" between the two of you (Note: this "verifiable information" could be more flexible than just two plain words)."
Please, Nostic, do you think this last method (Group OBE) would be possible to do?
Thanks. qbeac.
Certainly it would be possible. I don't believe in impossible. But this kind of thing has been tried before here on these boards. And all I can say is that we've got a lot of work to do. :grin:
Quote from: NosticI can totally understand where you are coming from when you say this. But I have to say, for me personally, I would like 100% accuracy. Not necessarily to prove anything to the world. But so that I can say without question that I am absolutely clear in what I'm seeing and what I'm experiencing. Am I seeing the "real" physical world or not?
Hi Nostic, I can totally understand that you prefer 100% accuracy for yourself, but believe me, in order to obtain "solid scientific proof", 100% accuracy is not necessary (a much
lower percentage would be sufficient), because so far we are only looking for an
"anomaly" that should not be present according to current scientific knowledge, and if we could find it,
that would be a VERY BIG DEAL!!! This anomaly could be found by simply comparing the results between the
"group of projectors" and the
"control group", providing there are indeed statistical significant differences between the results of both groups. We have discussed this issue in detail in Post #8, pag. 8:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=180207#180207
Please, let me summarize the
reasons why it is important to do scientific experiments. This is why:
- The Scientific community only accepts the results of experiments which have been published in
prestigious Scientific Journals (Ex: Nature, Science, The Lancet, etc.). For them, anything which does not appear in a those types of Journals, simply does not exist, period! For instance, all your testimonies and experiences in this forum, however convincing (and even if they appeared in other types of "non scientific" magazines or books), do not exist for the Scientific Community.
- In order for an experiment to appear in a prestigious Scientific Journal, it should comply to several important requirements:
1) It should be performed according to the
Scientific Method. 2) It should pass the process of
"Peer Review" (several independent scientist should check it out to make sure there are not mistakes, etc.).
3) Once the previous requirements are met, it should finally be
published in the Scientific Journal.
This is one example of an experiment about NDE which finally made it:
- Dr. Pim van Lommel NDE study published in The Lancet in 2001:http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLancet_NDE.htm
http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/whoswho/vanLommel.htm
- Interview with Dr. Pim van Lommel about his NDE study. ODE magazine (Life goes on), issue 29, November 2005:http://www.odemagazine.com/article.php?aID=4207
- The end result of being able to publish OBE experiments in one of those Scientific Journals is that
the credibility of OBE will increase A LOT!!! Therefore,
many people that today still cannot smell the roses,
will be able to smell the roses! And this was an analogy used by
BillionNamesofGod in Post #1 to #3, at link:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21011&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=70
You'll find further details about 1)
the importance of obtaining scientific proof and 2)
the reason why these experiences still do not have scientific credibility nowadays, at links:
- Post #2. Some good reasons to try to obtain scientific proof of OBEhttp://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20907
- Post #4, #5, #6. Reasons for today's lack of credibility of OBEs (Thread: Whats Your Proof?):
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21011&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=70
Quote from: NosticCertainly it would be possible. I don't believe in impossible. But this kind of thing has been tried before here on these boards. And all I can say is that we've got a lot of work to do.
Ok, please, why don't you people give it a try and see what happens? If any of you can perform
"Group OBEs" and exchange verifiable information between each other (Ex: even flexible information, a general conversation, an idea, etc.), we would be glad to talk with you about it.
Thanks. qbeac.
QuoteThe Scientific community only accepts the results of experiments which have been published in prestigious Scientific Journals
Let us take a certain guaranteed OBE induction, a new design of TMS device. What will this give in sense of Scientific Enterprise?
1. Experimental Control of Conditions. Very good.
2. Repeatability. Very good.
3. We can only assert negatives (falsifiability)...
4. Prediction. Good.
5. Quantification (as measurement or counting). Good
6. Control Groups. Very good.
7. Methods must be public and publicly reported. Very good.
8. The observed events must be public. Very good.
9. Objectivity in observations, that is, investigator's beliefs and expectations should not
influence the observations and reports of them... Good.
10. Comparison of one observation or set of observations (usually new ones) with another
observation or set of observations (usually what is known or thought to be known)...
11. Superior explanatory power of theory derived from the new observations... Good.
12. Repeated testing of theory against new observations and alternative theories. Very good.
13. Independent replication of observations. Very good.
14. 100% accuracy of "astral senses". Very good. For example in a 2002 BBC Radio debate, Dr. Olaf Blanke revealed that the epileptic patient - who unexpectedly reported out-of-body perceptions when her right-angular gyrus was stimulated - actually made visual observations of the operating room that the conventional scientific paradigm cannot explain. Even though he understandably excluded these details from the article published in the journal Nature, the Bern neuroscientist did not dismiss the possibility of the objective out-of-body experience, stating many more studies should be carried out. Although he is unsure how patients can see themselves, given no such information is picked up by their eyes. :laughing4:
15. What we may call a majority vote that is needed to authenticate
new observations or theories, the question of authority in science.
Who is to say what facts are firmly established and accepted without serious doubt?
An overwhelming majority of competent well-informed scientists. In practice these scientists, or other persons of authority, who control appointments, promotions, funding, and access to publication in journals and books, make judgments about objectivity. In this instance the method and apparatus gives some unique possibilities. For example make a guinea pig from any authority personally. :scared2:
16. Outer empiricism of natural sciences. Good. Most contemporary philosophers are physicalists. They believe that, in a relevant sense, everything is ultimately physical. However, very few contemporary philosophers take substance dualism seriously, the thesis that the mental -the soul- and the physical are two distinct kinds of substance that interact with each other. Nevertheless note that for skeptical mentality it seems easy to judge between dualism and materialism, because unlike most religious doctrines, the notion of the soul is an idea that would seem to have testable consequences.
Clairvoyant view shows the projecting entity as certain egg-like form, with a face...
(http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/936/12f6gn.jpg)
This is supposedly the astral body of well-known magi Boris Monosov. The ,,astralness" reminds a bit of Axion Detection via Consistent Radiographic Findings after Exposure to a Torsion Generator.
But today it is known, that the virtual bodies can become observable by virtue of weak optical anomalies (abnormal optical dispersion and weak self-luminescence in visible IR-and UV-areas of spectrum), localized in the environment of its active interaction with material objects or as display of trace effect. These traces have secondary character and can be easily detected by electron-optical, photographic, etc. methods what has involuntarily led some authors to conclusions in sense of substitution of causes with consequences.
http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Articles/4-1/Benford-axion.htm
QuoteSo maybe you can trigger OBE by stimulating the angular gyrus?
Not simply some kind of "stimulation", but inhibition, shutting down of angular gyrus, this is insufficiently understood. Inhibition of angular gyrus leads to shutting down of "astral hold" (or metastable symbiosis of subtle bodies with physical body) what allows OBEs, may be in such terms in sense of substance dualism.
The effect of the external magnetic or electrical stimulation is dependent of the amount of energy given. There may be no clinical effect or sometimes stimulation is seen when only a small amount of energy is given, for instance during stimulation of the motoric cortex. But during "stimulation" with higher energy inhibition of local cortical functions occurs by extinction of the electrical and magnetic fields resulting in inhibition of local neuronal networks. Also in the patient described by Blanke in Nature stimulation with higher electric energy was given, resulting in inhibition of the function of the local neuronal networks in the gyrus angularis (Lommel).
Let us take a simple model in sense of SUBSTANCE DUALISM. Body and subtle bodies. But even low quality pictures show the story is not as simple about. The woman is trying to astral project, you'll notice her aura shifted from its normal position around her body and afterwards she described being outside herself - but not very far. She stands on a metal plate that is driven from a high frequency, high voltage Tesla coil. This coil is fed with a "swept" range of low level microwave frequencies that in turn stimulate the body field. The image is picked up using a special CCD
(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/192/1f5nh.jpg)
(charge coupled detectors), that is sensitive and tuneable to a wide range of frequencies ranging from microwaves to low IR. The second image is when she actively tried to project; she said something was holding her back, keeping her from projecting out. It is quite amazing to see the glowing chakras move to the edge of the skin trying to follow the astral image at the side of the picture. To make the true image, the subject is simultaneously videotaped with a standard video camera. That visible image is then superimposed on top of the actual aura field to yield the composite images that we see (with exposure of less than 15 seconds). (Chuck Shramek.).
One may ask what guaranties the metastable symbiosis from physical body with subtle bodies. Let us talk about mechanism. OBE is possible, but not because "anyone can". Detailed considerations rather show you let down, cheat certain 1)fundamental 2)infallible mechanism, in a bit naive terms "hold of astral body", the brain is computer, it is clear, but also astral body is unimaginable complicated computer. May be the most people will prefer that this symbiosis is guarantied simply so, without any energy-informative cause, so to speak in sense of "spiritual babble". So a mechanism that prohibits separation in any circumstances including inhuman pain, stress etc. etc. The one from very few who somehow reached such interpretation is Anne Varnes. ,,The reason that some people have an easier time astral projecting is that their magnetic hold is looser on their astral body. Loose holds are the exception, not the norm. The fortunate few can induce the vibrations during meditation only. And even fewer still can project from the alpha state of consciousness (light relaxation). If you have a naturally loose hold, then you will be able to lie down, breathe deeply, relax for about 15-20 minutes and then start to feel your astral arms or legs lift generally accompanied with the vibrations. Everyone else will feel the sensation of either being numb or a light tingling, and that is it. Interestingly enough, loose holds seem to be hereditary which makes me think that it's the physical body that holds the astral, vs. the astral clinging to the physical (an astral form cannot carry human genes for it has no role in reproduction)."
Interestingly, such a trick- rapid and sufficient inhibition of TPJ gives temporary switching down of this horrible computer- computer guarantying metastable symbiosis (or reincarnational ontogenesis) of "subtle" bodies with physical body. Obviously, the abovementioned computer is more fundamental than brain. A good example is van Lommel results. Clinical death, shutting down of whole brain turns out as very less effective in sense of instantaneous separation than particular inhibition of TPJ. Van Lommel's article in Lancet http://www.iands.org/dutch_study.html#how_to_find shows only 12% clinically dead patients seems to have what the physicians called a "core" or "deep" NDE, (12%"immediate" separations and this by such arch-grave factor as clinical death!!!).
The main induction technique of Astral Projection obviously is induction of (micro) seizures (people whose brains are prone to membrane fusion and to recurrent low-level epileptogene foci) in electrically unstable parts of cortex (with ensuing inhibition in the ,,exact" part). A little collection of somatosensory and auditory hallucinations (vibrations)... What follows? For a full emulation of this technique we need certain external induction of certain charge density (of the order of 0, 03-0,3mkC/cm3) in part of cortex trough electrical field.
(http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/7226/2f9xe.jpg)
Let us take ROTATING SUPERMAGNET as transcranial magnetic stimulation tool. Rotating magnet and solenoid see http://www.physics.lsa.umich.edu/demolab/demo.asp?id=642.
(http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/6541/3f1ra.jpg)
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4884/4f3mp.jpg)
Figure. Magnetic resonance image in ANALYZE imaging software demonstrating a method of measuring the distance from scalp to cortex at the site of TMS stimulation by drawing a consistent rectangle, outlining the surface of cortex and scalp,
and sampling the intervening area in mm2.
The field of supermagnet 1X1in. has following dimensions by maxim. value
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1121/5f9wp.jpg)
round about 1,5T. We can take an induction coil and compare Voltage induced by some regular TMS device and rotating supermagnet (cylinder or cube 1X1in., rotating axis perpendicularly to NS axis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). For equal single pulse Voltage rotation frequency may be will get very big. For typical 30kT/s (at surface of windings of regular TMS device) we must have of the order of 5000 rotations per second, for the same as at surface of hull (of regular TMS device) naturally less, 1000-2000 rotations per second). But we must not forget that this frequency must be divided by certain K (round about 10...). 1) We have sinusoidal variable, not avalanche-like dropping magnetic flux density.[Wb = Vs] (http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2167/e6mr.jpg)
This makes 2-4 times more charge per time constant (300 mksec.). 2) Biologically superhigh frequency factor is 2-3 times. 3) Our goal is not convulsions, but minim. initial symptoms, this also makes 2-3 times, so we have K 10 or more...Consequently, we have rotating supermagnet frequency at least in any case less than 1000 per sec. The right and accurate tactics may be consist in- reach first indubitable symptoms (the famous micropsia, macropsia, falling sensation, floating sensation, flying sensation, or in many cases the abovementioned vibrations, etc.) and hold on the device certain amount of seconds with ensuing sufficiently persistent inhibition (getting-dark) in TPJ,
(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/9084/6f4md.jpg)
,,prolonged cortical silent period". We speak rather about electrical, cellular working-out and temporary getting-dark in TPJ, than instantaneous electrical jamming as in Blankes experiment. A few high quality brain scans (EEG) with high spatial and temporal resolution from some real projectors in process of real AP will be helpful by determination of
(http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/7913/7f2si.jpg)
right tactics, but it exist no such scans... The existing scans confirm what is said about angular gyrus. What this will give? It makes possible the induction of real OBEs in any experimental subject at will, also in several subjects simultaneously. Direct instrumental measurement of projecting "entity", so to say a collaboration of unlimited extrasomatic phenomenology. Not so unthinkable task if you have guaranteed OBE induction in any experimental subject. To measurement data it is impossible to stick neither hallucinations, nor super-psi or subject-components of self-models, see Thomas Metzinger Out-of-Body Experiences as the Origin of the Concept of a "Soul".
http://www.mindmatter.de/mmpdf/metzinger.pdf
Prof. Stephen Braude Out-of-Body Experiences and Survival After Death
http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/articles/braude/obe.htm
Why rotating supermagnet??? Simply you have excellent parameters, excellent dimensions!!! Moreover, Tribune de Geneve La decouverte que vous attendez?
L'induction experimentale de la decorporation. Contour map of scalp potentials recorded with 60-channel EEG after left motor cortex
(http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/4626/8f7iu.jpg)
TMS. Regular TMS devices by parameters in accordance with guidelines (...and precisely over TPJ) obviously can give no more as initial OBE symptoms, so we can make appropriate conclusions, rotating supermagnet have only one focus of limited dimensions, much more smaller as in picture, so in any case we don't have the necessity to reach the convulsions threshold...
As to convulsions- in accurate work with right temporal lobe (angular gyrus) convulsions must be avoidable, it is considered for opportune in this region epileptic seizures without convulsions. Seizures involving no motor symptoms or loss of consciousness and not being recognized by the patient may actually be more frequent than commonly thought , a case study of a patient who first experienced OBEs for a number of years and only later suffered from generalized seizures, Vuilleumier, Despland, Assal, and Regli 1997 . Heautoscopie, extase et hallucinations experientielles d'origine epileptique. Revue Neurologique 153: 115-119, if the discharge remains within one lobe and does not propagate to motor regions, no epileptic convulsions occur. In fact, the observer might not realize the person is experiencing an electrical seizure; nevertheless, there are often clear experiential phenomena that are generated even without after- discharges, Persinger, 1989.
(http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/5276/9f7by.jpg)
Fig. Mean lesion overlap analysis of the five patients in whom a lesion could be defined (Patients 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6). Each patient is indicated in the same colour as in Fig... The results of the individual lesion analysis of each patient were transposed onto the left hemisphere of Patient 5. Mean overlap analysis centred on the TPJ (area indicated by dashed white line). Thick black lines indicate sylvian fissure and central sulcus; thin lines indicate superior temporal sulcus, postcentral sulcus and intraparietal sulcus. Patient 1 suffered from complex partial seizures that were characterized initially by an OBE or visual manifestations of varying degree. Pharmacoresistant epilepsy was diagnosed. Presurgical epilepsy evaluation suggested right occipito-parietal seizure onset partly overlapping and anterior to a right occipito-parietal dysembryoblastic neuroepithelial tumour (Fig., pink). OBE. Patient 1 felt as if she would be elevated vertically and effortlessly from her actual position associated with vertigo and fear. She saw herself (entire body as lying on the ground, facing up) and some unknown people (some were standing around her body, others were moving around) below. Initially, she felt as being 'above her real body', but that she was rapidly rising higher. She felt as if her elevated body was in the horizontal position, but did not see any part of it. The visual scene always took place outdoors and was described as 'a green meadow or hill'. The sensation of elevation continued and, quickly, she saw everything from so far away that she could not distinguish details anymore stating that she saw "something like a map of some country as you find in geography books". Here, the elevation stopped and she fell back "to earth". The patient indicated that OBEs occurred independent of her body position. Out-of-body experience and autoscopy of neurological origin. Olaf Blanke, Theodor Landis, Laurent Spinelli and Margitta Seeck Note, the thing has gone to certain point purely spontaneously regardless of all subjective passivity, fright and indoctrination of patient 1. As we can see we need precise overlapping of TPJ, you may have those or other somatosensory ,,vibrations" by stimulating motor cortex with rotating supermagnet (by sufficient parameters); merely you need inhibition of TPJ, not vibrations as such!! Confusion about shortening of (patient 3) legs mentioned in Blankes article, http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/psych113/OutofBody.pdf http://www.psy.gla.ac.uk/docs/events/download.php?id=572 when the doctors asked her to move her limbs, she experienced other illusions: one arm seemed shorter than the other; her legs seemed to fly toward her face; if she closed her eyes, her upper body felt as if it were flying toward her legs. This experience is very similar to an experience called "micropsia", in which a person may experience things as being closer than they really are. The opposite experience, called 'macropsia' is the name for the perception that things are larger and farther away than they actually are. The same areas of the brain are also involved in this experience. Macropsia as preceding of OBEs (Todd Murphy). Moreover, nowhere was mentioned the patient was lying with nose down, not seeing any legs or arms with physical (open!) eyes, so we see micropsia applied on beginning "astral senses", typically in close aura zone. A fundamental problem is the extreme unpopularity of substance dualism what excludes a priori certain models, even as thought experiments. A certain point deserves particular attention...Let us imagine slow, methodical OBE induction (with open eyes for example). Range 2m (from body), we have well known "failure" to integrate... or "heavy distortions" as say not so few practical projectors. Somehow point where lie "eyes" reaches 4m, 5m...and suddenly any "failures" (all this disintegration within personal space (multisensory dysfunction) and disintegration between personal space (vestibular) and extrapersonal space (visual)) ceases to exist. Imagine- there, in incarnate state, the stream of consciousness includes brain, the outer milieu for stream of consciousness is brain, particularly a distributed phase of non-polar, hydrophobic solubility medium composed of discrete pockets in a group of proteins throughout the brain... and all seems to conform to reductionism or physicalism and there... in next minute you achieve OBE, discarnate state, and outer milieu for stream of consciousness is astral body, but there happens no seizures and you don't feel vibrations...you don't have micropsia, etc., you don't think the doorknob is part of body... This can be compared with OBEs of blind people. 1...2...3m they have such a thing as "astral touch", but suddenly at certain distance full correct sight emerges!!! What happens??? Simply at certain moment the field of mind and the field of consciousness leaves aura zone and metastable symbiosis of "subtle" bodies with physical body predominating switches off. There the passing of something like stream of consciousness, energy-informative stream, includes brain and all seems to conform to reductionism or physicalism and there... it includes not. Sometimes the "outer milieu" for stream of consciousness somehow simultaneously includes brain and "astral body" what leads to schizoid feeling of mind split.
Millions of people every year undergo general anesthesia for surgery with complete and reversible loss of consciousness. At a critical concentration of anesthetic drug, consciousness is erased while many nonconscious functions of brain and other organs continue (e.g. EEG, evoked potentials, control of breathing). How does this happen?
The situation seems confusing, with many different types of drugs acting on many different types of proteins in the brain (e.g. receptors for various excitatory and inhibitory neurotransmitters, channels, enzymes, connexin in gap junctions (Masaki et al 2004, He & Burt 2000), actin, tubulin in microtubules). Purely inhalational anesthetic gases which travel through the lungs and blood to the brain constitute a variety of types of molecules: halogenated hydrocarbons, ethers, the inert element xenon, nitrous oxide etc. However there is one important unifying feature.
All anesthetic gas molecules are non-polar, and thus poorly soluble in water/blood, but highly soluble in a particular lipid-like, hydrophobic environment akin to olive oil. The potency of anesthetic gases in erasing consciousness correlates perfectly with solubility in such an environment. The brain has a large lipid-like (olive oil-like) domain, both in lipid regions of neural membranes and hydrophobic pockets within certain proteins. Anesthetics were originally thought to act in lipid regions of membranes, but protein hydrophobic pockets were determined to be their primary sites of action (Franks and Lieb 1982). Anesthetic gases bind to non-polar amino acid groups in the pockets (e.g. the benzene-like ring in phenylalanine, and the indole ring in tryptophan) by van der Waals London forces, the same quantum forces which form the pockets and govern conformational dynamics.
Why do weak quantum forces have such profound and selective effects? Anesthetic gas molecules form their own London force interactions with non-polar amino acid groups, preventing or altering normally occurring London forces necessary for protein conformational dynamics and consciousness. Anesthetic gases prevent quantum leverage.
Most protein conformational changes are unaffected by general anesthetics-muscle contractility, enzyme function and most brain activities (as evidenced by EEG and evoked potentials) continue during anesthesia. Axonal action potentials are also relatively unaffected by general anesthetics. Proteins which are affected include post-synaptic receptors (acetylcholine, serotonin, GABA and glycine), tubulin (Allison and Nunn 1968) and actin, which disassembles in dendritic spines when exposed to anesthetics (Kaech et al 1999).
Anesthetics act (and consciousness occurs) not in any one brain region, or in any one type of neuron or particular protein. Rather, anesthesia and consciousness occur in hydrophobic pockets of a class of proteins in dendrites throughout the brain (Hameroff 1998c). In these pockets, quantum London forces govern protein function responsible for consciousness. Does that imply that consciousness is related with subtle energies?
This points rather in direction of subtle-energycal stream of consciousness.
A radical distinction of approach, not unrelated to the
contrast between first- and third-person perspectives, can be
drawn between those who assume that consciousness is entirely
dependent on brain processes and those who contend that con-
sciousness may in some sense be 'beyond the brain'. In his
Ingersoll Lecture on Immortality that draws upon the ideas of
the Oxford philosopher F.C.S. Schiller, William James contrasts
theories whereby consciousness is thought actually to be pro-
duced by brain processes with those positing that consciousness
is in some sense filtered by or transmitted through the brain.
"Consciousness has never been observed.
Neither has it been weighed or measured.
The source of consciousness is unknown.
It's location, within or without the body, has never been discovered.
No one has determined what consciousness consists of, or contains.
And, there's not one single bit of scientific proof that consciousness is biological.
Therefore, it appears, all the material written about consciousness is subjective." (Roger Penrose)
Mind, matter, thought, and the deepest biological control functions also use the Whittaker internal electromagnetics, and always have done so. Now we know where the human bodymind software is, how it is filed, and how to engineer it directly. What is involved is not only a unification of the branches of physics, but also a unification of physics and metaphysics. Living systems have long used the internal EM Whittaker channel for deep cellular control of the organism. By manipulating this channel, researchers have shown EM induction of cellular death and disease, and absolute cures of terminal tumors and leukemias in lab animals. Popp also discovered the master cellular control system, including its virtual photon storage characteristics, without knowing of the internal Whittaker storage channel and mechanism. The scalar EM potential is an organized space-time lattice of perfectly ordered EM energy [Fuller's Isotropic Vector Matrix], passing through it in a Whittaker wave structure. Living systems alter this internal EM Whittaker channel (this space-time lattice structure) and communicate through it for mind, thought, personality, long-term memory, and deep control of cellular and body functions. All the deepest biological control systems are in the Whittaker channel. Scalar interferometry of Whittaker potentials alone, e.g., can reproduce any kind of normal EM, and the potentials can pass deep into the body before that interference occurs. So Whittaker potential interferometry can produce much deeper EM fields in the body than present field theory and dosimetry would indicate. The Whittaker potentials interact in the nuclear mass potential of the body--and that is where the signals and functions for deep cellular control, immune system control, etc. are located. The mind consists of stabilized Whittaker structures inside the living system's bio-potential. Thoughts are a special class of changes/waves in that overall Whittaker-structure ensemble. The personal unconscious is a single, small, localized sample of yet a greater collection that represents even deeper unconsciousness. That is why the unconscious is unconscious, just as the vacuum potential is non-observable. The conscious mind is a serial processor, one thing at a time. The unconscious mind is a parallel processor, of infinite potential. The multiplicity of the unconscious makes it appear as blackness, or nothing recognizable at all. Jung's collective unconscious consists of archetypal infolded EM structures acting in common in an overall bio-quantum-potential for the entire species. The Spirit of the living system, an undivided whole, an Unbound Self, is everywhere in the universe, and every when as well. It's all a giant hologram, not only in space, but in space-time. A thought or thoughtform is just a specific, dynamic Whittaker structure in the hidden EM channels of the biopotential. Thoughts and thoughtforms are real. They are virtual spatially, but occupy the real dimension of time. Physics and metaphysics share this nonobservable dimension time. You can build the whole observable, detectable physics model out of the nonobservable, nondetectable vacuum. With Whittaker EM engineering, you can conceivably "make" thoughtforms to order, and input them directly into the mind and long-term memory and personality. Vector fields can evidently be assembled by properly interfering scalar potentials. Conversely, scalar field can be created by destructively interfering vector field, in a nonlinear medium. Varying the vector components rhythmically produces what Bearden calls "scalar waves". These ripples in space-time are believed to induce a wavelike stress in the "aether" and this in turn leads to engineering the structure of pure space and/or mass in a localized area--in other words, implementing General Relativity (space-time curvature) on the lab bench.
The implications are staggering. Among other things it means direct engineering of quantum change via a new kind of "hidden electrodynamics variables," the direct engineering of the vacuum's virtual photon flux exchange with matter; action at a distance; direct engineering of the local curvature of space-time; and using the hidden EM to engineer body cells including the reversal of diseased cells, genetics and all, back to a previous healthy state; research toward the direct engineering of the mind, including both the conscious and unconscious minds, long-term memory, and the personality itself. There is a predominance of non-linear processes in biological systems. Several types of quasi-particles, each with their own characteristic resonant frequencies have been proposed to mediate these non-linear phenomenon, including solitons, excitons, and plasmons. The right frequencies of non-linear energies might have profound healing properties, according to Stanford researcher Dr. Glen Rein. Due to the non-linear nature of biological systems it is proposed that scalar waves should be more biologically active than their linear electromagnetic counterparts. Scalar energy is transduced into linear electromagnetic energy in the body by liquid crystals in the cell membrane and solid crystals found in the blood and in several biological tissues. Clinical studies of the effects of scalar energy on the mindbody and brainwaves have been conducted since the 1980s. If they can be believed, research from Stanford University Medical Center produced some tantalizing results. Electrochemical oscillation between membrane-bound lipids near phase-transition temperature have been analyzed with and described by nonlinear quantum mechanical equations. They also analyzed the coupling between harmonic oscillators represented by action potentials generated from active neuronal networks in the central nervous system, finding evidence of chaos. The extraction of scalar components from Maxwell's original electromagnetic equations and from Schrodinger's equation using imaginary numbers has been reported, and their unusual non-linear waves described by many experimenters. A Crystalline Transduction Theory has been put forth to explain the interactive mechanism of scalar waves with biological systems. Another possibility is transduction in microtubules dispersed throughout the whole organism. Tissue culture studies imply that the action of scalars on biological systems is more than a placebo effect mediated by the brain/mind, such as stress, moods or beliefs. Stray EM energy in the ambient atmosphere makes it difficult to study the healing properties of scalar energies in a clinical setting. Clinical healing sometime occurred several months after initial exposure to the scalar waves. It is known that the brain and body, each the immune system, communicate bidirectionally. Thus, a direct action of scalar energy on the body could cause a subsequent change in brain state. Therefore EEG studies do not indicate whether scalar energy also affects the body directly or whether the brain and the body are both affected. Even if scalar energy directly affects individual cells, it may also affect the mind resulting in an altered psychological outlook which results in clinical improvement. Dr. Michael Persinger was the first person to test the effects of scalar energy using isolated cells. The scalar waves were generated by partially cancelling two vortex-type magnetic fields (0.SHz, 10pT) by intersecting them in the air. The biological endpoint, degranulation of mast cells, was increased by the scalar fields. Dr. Puharich, in another study, grew tissue samples of E. Coli, and detected an increased activity of ubiquitone, a protein involved in DNA repair. These results indicate that scalar energy can have a direct effect at the subcellular level as well as a direct effect on the immune system. Another project detected an effect of scalar energy on neurotransmitter function, which mimicked the effect of antidepressant medication. Scalars appear to modulate the basic biochemical communication between nerve cells mediated by neurotransmitters. Cultured nerve cells called PC 12 cells were isolated from rats, and the functional properties of noradrenalin release from PC 12 cells was shown to be increased by a 500Hz monopolar square wave, and noradrenalin uptake was inhibited by a 15Hz bipolar square wave, (Rein). Noradrenalin uptake was chosen because it is directly mediated by the plasma membrane via an intramembrane protein carrier. The plasma membrane, with its liquid-crystal structure, is the critical cellular barrier which interfaces with the chemical and electromagnetic environment. Since other intramembrane proteins show non-linear properties, the plasma membrane is a likely target for scalar energy. The physiological function of carrier mediated neurotransmitter uptake is to remove excess neurotransmitter from the synaptic cleft after its release from presynaptic nerves. Thus, inhibiting uptake results in the accumulation of the neurotransmitter in the synaptic cleft. This is the mechanism of action of tricyclic antidepressants, since they inhibit noradrenalin uptake. Depression is associated with decreased noradrenalin levels. Rein exposed confluent monolayer culture of PC12 cells to noradrenalin in the presence or absence of scalar energy. After 30 minutes, the cells were washed and centrifuged and noradrenalin uptake measured. Overall, uptake was inhibited by 19.5% in the presence of the scalar field as compared with the control value obtained in its absence. This is a significant statistical difference of p 0.01. Researchers think a wide variety of physiological changes could be created resulting in improvement of a variety of clinical diseases, only one of which could be depression. Scalar energy can have a direct effect on the cell membrane. Researchers want to test whether diseased cells are preferentially sensitive to scalar energy; and what characterizes its mechanisms of action. The brain halves could constitute natural scalar interferometers; the cortex, the acupuncture system, the 'chakras' would be coupling elements. :eyecrazy:
We should note here that the spin polarization of an atom is not necessarily fixed in either a right-handed or left-handed direction. The Institute of Material Research in Kiev, Ukraine performed a series of experiments where an object was exposed to torsion radiation. They found that if the torsion radiation was strong enough, then the spin state of the atoms themselves could be changed. These changes can eventually be substantial enough to alter the structure and appearance of a material, such as the color of granite and the sharpness of a razor blade.
Even more interestingly, the Institute of Material Research also determined that people with strong psychic abilities were also capable of creating identical changes in the spin polarization of various substances by the sheer focus of their consciousness. No other known technologies could create such changes in a physical object. This again suggests that consciousness and torsion-waves are actually related. .
The concept known as dualism is attributed to the seventeenth-century French physician/mathematician/philosopher Rene Descartes (1596-1650), who probably is most famous for his well-known dictum, "I think, therefore I am." Interestingly, however, the idea for dualism did not originate with Descartes (although he is the one who generally receives credit for it). Some twelve hundred years earlier, Augustine, in his City of God had written:
Without any delusive representation of images and phantasms, I am most certain that I am, and that I know and delight in this. In respect of these truths, I am not afraid of the arguments of the Academicians, who say, "What if you are deceived?" For if I am deceived, I am. For he who is not, cannot be deceived; and if I am deceived, by this same token I am.
In the end, however, it was Descartes who "resolved to take myself as an object of study and to employ all the powers of my mind in choosing the paths I should follow". The paths Descartes chose eventually designated him as the father of the mind/body theory of interactionism. In his 1642 book, Discourse on Method and the Meditations, Descartes suggested that the mind was every bit as real as matter, yet was entirely separate from matter-and therefore from the brain as well. In Descartes' language, the mind was res cogitans (thinking substances), as opposed to the brain, which was res extensa (material or physical substances). Descartes even thought he had located the actual "seat" of consciousness in the brain. Arne Wyller summarized Descartes' views as follows:
Descartes...believed that mind states and physical states are mutually interactive. Thus arose the Cartesian mind-body dualism that still influences modern scientific thinking in this field.
It is something of an understatement to suggest that dualism "still influences modern scientific thinking in this field." In his classic 1949 book, The Concept of Mind, British philosopher Gilbert Ryle referred to dualism as "the official doctrine". In commenting on that phrase, Australian physicist and mathematician Paul Davies asked in his book, God and the New Physics:
What are the features of the dualistic theory of the mind? The "official doctrine" goes something like this. The human being consists of two distinct, separate kinds of things: the body and the soul, or mind. The body acts as a sort of host or receptacle for the mind, or perhaps even as a prison from which liberation may be sought through spiritual advancement or death.... However, the mind (or soul) is not located inside the brain, or any other part of the body; or indeed anywhere in space at all.... An important feature of this picture is that the mind is a thing; perhaps even more specifically, a substance. Not a physical substance, but a tenuous, elusive, aetherial sort of substance (see Torsion Fields).
James Trefil summed it up like this:
One way of looking at this question is to imagine that somewhere in the brain is an "I" who is watching the final products of the processing of signals by neurons. The essence of this view is that there is something in "mind" that transcends (or at least is distinct from) the workings of the physical brain. The seventeenth-century French philosopher and mathematician Rene Descartes advocated such a view of mind/body dualism, so the hypothetical place where mental images are viewed is often referred to as the "Cartesian Theater".
The fascinating book, Nobel Prize Conversations, includes the text of a series of "conversations" that occurred in November 1982, at the Isthmus Institute in Dallas, Texas, among four Nobel laureates: Sir John Eccles, Ilya Prigogine, Roger Sperry, and Brian Josephson. Norman Cousins was the moderator for those conversations. After listening to Drs. Eccles and Sperry discuss their research, documenting that the mind exerts a significant influence on the brain, Cousins was constrained to say that when we see evidence such as that produced by the scientific research of Nobel laureates like Sperry and Eccles, which shows
...that mind is in charge of brain, we spontaneously recognize their conviction as something we've always known or at least suspected. What grips us as we listen to these men is not only the elegance of their demonstrations, nor the sheerly rational force of their arguments, but their everydayness.... We find ourselves agreeing with Sperry and Eccles because what they say seems "right".
The only model that explicitly states that consciousness exists in an axion BEC (a coherent Bose-Einstein Condensate (BEC) that surrounds and permeates galaxies) residing in Dark Matter is by Father Jerome: http://www.fiwd.org/CompleteBook.htm
To quote him:
" I do so identify the basic and necessary Particle of Universal Consciousness as being the Quantum Axion Particle, a microcosmically quantum unit of four predominantly differing "flavors": a Positive Particle of positive half-integer spin; a Negative Particle of negative half-integer spin; a Positive Particle of positive integer spin; and a Negative Particle of negative integer spin."
Briefly the model of consciousness is that Cooper-pair layers of positive and negative half-spin axions couple to the "corporeal" physical brain on one (metaphorical) side, and to an "incorporeal" higher self or soul composed of half-spin axions on the other. The incorporeal layer is said by Jerome to be a living, sentient life-form. The actual coupling mechanism to the brain is also incorporeal, i.e. not chemical or electrical, consistent with Bohm theory.
Dark matter may be just as real as visible matter, but a subtler form of matter. The physical (and chemical) properties of dark matter are unknown. Devoid of electrical charges, the dark matter permeates the visible matter without being detected. Will charge-less particles form dark atoms? Will they then interact strongly with each other and with ordinary matter? If subtle dark matter chemistries exist, they may yield subtle bodies and may give us a theoretical basis for the subtleties of the mind. Then, the possibility exists for dark atom structures and chemistries which are parallel to ordinary structures and chemistries, but undetectable. That sounds like the mind stuff. It is conceivable that the confirmation of a chemically active dark matter will have a greater impact on science in this century than quantum mechanics, information theories, and DNA in the previous century. Mind is admittedly mystifying. It is invisible and undetectable, but is coupled to the physical body, in and through which mind operates. However, a mystery per se need not be metaphysical or mystical.
Mind Matter.
Wave function collapse is universal, but complex mental phenomena are unique to humans. So, the mental world must have sources other than wave function collapse. Jung and Pauli (See Meier, 1992) suggested a thought-field with its own elementary particles. Since thoughts are invisible any such field and particles must also be imperceptible. It must be a hidden physical field parallel to that of the ordinary material realm. The dark matter realm may fill the bill. Present data seem to indicate that ordinary (baryonic) matter constitutes only about ten percent of all matter. Both theoretical physics and cosmological models predict the possibility of existence of certain type of exotic particles (nonbarionic), which are strands of localized energy in space, with very low mass and no charge. Predictions of super-symmetry theory in particle physics, also suggest the existence of vast amount of dark matter (R. Peccei and H. Quinn, 1977). The two major possible candidates for the dark matter, with the amusing acronyms MACHOs and WIMPS, are the Massive Astrophysical Compact Halo Objects (West, 1992) and Weakly Interacting Massive Particles (Griest, 1993; West, 1992). WIMPS are the little weak dark matter candidates, which are thought to be made of exotic stuff, called non-baryonic matter. Astronomers look for MACHOs and particle physicists for WIMPs.
Dark Matter Realm.
Current speculations about the Big Bang do not conclude that all forms of matter began at this event (Trefil J. 1993; Silk, 1989). Dark matter may have been present even before the presumed Big Bang event. Luminous matter is what is claimed to be formed during this singular event. The microwave background radiation of the universe (the "echo" from the Big Bang) and the red shift which shows an expanding universe are presented as quantitative experimental evidences supporting the hot Big Bang Theory. Both of these phenomena are based on observation of radiation from luminous matter. This does not rule out that some form of "dark matter" may have existed before the Big Bang and the primordial production of atoms. Conceptual bias notwithstanding, dark matter field theories are likely to be developed more systematically within a theoretical framework of a unified field theory, that includes gravitational and electromagnetic fields. Dark matter fields may have been primal phenomena within a physically expanding universe. There are many categories of WIMPs suspected. Various theorists have dubbed some of them supersymmetric particles, photinos, neutralinos, cosmic strings or membranes, preons, quark nuggets, monopoles etc. Microleptons also have been proposed. Another candidate for dark matter is a theoretical non-thermal particle called the axion. This type of matter may fall into the broad category of "dark matter", because it is invisible, and cannot be easily detected being electrically charge-less. Our visible bodies could be permeated by it, without us ever knowing. All the other candidates for dark matter were created in cosmic thermal processes and have thermal velocities, including the thermal axions presently being created in the sun. However, there are no definitive conclusions about the exact nature, size, shape, mass or form of dark particles, except that they have no electric charge. Being charge-less, dark matter does not interact with electric charge. In the ordinary chemical sense, there is no reason for it to preferentially interact with body physiology, which is charge dependent. So, chemists have not looked into the possibilities of extra-ordinary chemistries, though extra ordinary matter has been known to physics since the 1930''s as a necessary ingredient of the cosmos. Mass estimates of dark matter range from tiny subatomic particles weighing 100,000 times less than an electron to black holes with masses millions of times that of the sun (Mateo, 1994). In order to accurately describe the structure of dwarf galaxies, Wayne Hu et al (2000) assumed an arbitrary mass of 10-22 electron volt. He claims this is reasonable, since the mass of dark matter particles is an unknown, adjustable parameter. Its quantum mechanical, or de Broglie wavelength (non-thermal) would then be a few thousand light-years, large enough to span the whole galactic core, which automatically spread out the mass from the centers of dwarf galaxies and match observations more closely. This is called "fuzzy cold dark matter". Such particles would form a colossal Bose-Einstein condensate in and around every galaxy, a state known to exist only for ultra cold atoms in laboratories. If the mass of an axion is about one billionth of an electron mass, the axion wave extends well beyond the earth. Then it is plausible that the axion matter must be a BEC from ambient to perhaps even to solar temperatures. In the ordinary physical world of electrons and protons, BECs can exist only at ultra cold temperatures, but the extraordinary world of axions may have this intrinsic property at all temperatures, satisfying the zero-point temperature requirement for a BEC. This is of significance for information theories and processes, and hence for the invisible mind. A conceptual leap from the invisible matter to invisible mind is appealing.
Axion Atoms.
Presently it is assumed that axions exist apart from ordinary matter and interact very weakly with it. If a symmetry breaking process produced cosmic axions before matter and anti-matter recombined, the number of axions will be comparable to the number of photons in the universe. It is estimated that there must be more than 10 trillion axions for each proton and neutron in the cosmos, making them a major part of dark matter. Physicist John Cramer ("http://mist.npl.washington.edu/av/altvw05.html) claims that axions are geometrically similar to an electric and a magnetic field oriented parallel to each other, so that intense electric and/or magnetic fields can theoretically transform axions into photons of all energies including microwaves. Axions of Wayne Hu et al (2000) have a mass of 10-22 electron volt, with non-thermal de Broglie wavelength of a few thousand light-years spanning the galaxies. An axion of 1 eV = 17.83 x 10-31 gm i.e. about one- tenth of a million-trillion-trillionth of a gram, has thermal de Broglie wavelength of about 12.0 x 10-10m (or 12 Angstrom units, A). The average optical wavelength is about 6000 x 10-10m, i.e. 6000 Angstrom units; the average atomic wavelength at ambient conditions is about 0.166 x 10-10m, about 36,000 times lesser. The smallest atom is about 1 Angstrom in diameter. The mass of choice for axion will be such that it isomorphously permeates each subatomic particle. It is inane to think that such dark matter are afloat carrying information and solving the mind-body problem. It is not free floating subatomic particles, but a structured configuration that constitute ordinary matter. So also, corresponding structured configurations of dark atomic particles of very low mass and capable of dark chemistry seem to be an interesting prospect. Toward that goal, the following assumptions are made:
1. Axions of very low mass are confined to the dimensions of ordinary subatomic particles. They occupy the same space that the fundamental particles occupy, but with masses several orders less than one electron volt. 2. They will permeate the visible particles and atoms in an isomorphic manner, and become indistinguishable from the latter. 3. They may form axion atoms possessing bonding properties, through spins and configurations of constituent units. 4. Specific axion dark atom exists corresponding to each known ordinary atom. This relationship will be similar to that between objects and their signs. 5. Certain elemental relations exist which govern the axions such as spin, gravity (exchange of gravitons), resonance, entanglement or an yet to be determined bonding force. 6. Coupling of these dark atoms to the ordinary atoms is possible. 7. Associated with every axion particle is an undetectable charge "C" that can be plus or minus similar to electrical. A hydrogen atom may have a dark counterpart existing parallel to it. Its one proton and one electron (and no neutron) may each have its shadow axion form condensed within its dimensions and permeating it. Similarly all known atoms will have their protons, neutrons and electrons isomorphously suffused by their shadow axion forms. For dark chemistries to occur, these are confined to the ordinary atomic dimensions, with their wavelengths condensed to those of ordinary atoms. If these axions must interact with physical energy and be coupled to physical particles, that should be through mechanisms that are logical and relevant to the physical realm. In the visible realm of ordinary (baryonic) particles, electric charge is the bonding force between them. No such charge exists in the extraordinary non-baryonic matter. However there are such physical forces as spin, gravity (graviton exchange), resonance, entanglement or an as yet undetermined force, which may bond these dark particles together and or bind them to the visible particles. [There are many non-falsifiable theories afloat such as axion fields, spin fields, microleptonic fields, heterogeneous physical vacuum, torsion fields etc]. Then, such invisible axion bodies may form the substrate extraordinaire for the mental realm. Dark chemistries parallel to and coupled to ordinary chemistries, will involve electrically charge-less components of dark matter atoms and their reactions through some kind of bonding. Spins and configurations of electrons lead to chemical bonding in ordinary matter. Same phenomena may occur in these axion atoms also. It could be through an intrinsic angular momentum (spin) with clockwise and anticlockwise directions (positive and negative signs). Then spin-spin coupling between dark particles may facilitate dark chemistries parallel to normal chemistries. The spin-charge coupling of dark and ordinary matter may lead to coupling of the ordinary subatomic particles to their dark counterparts. In addition, there is the possibility of resonance, entanglement and graviton exchange, which may be facilitating factors for interactions that lead to possible dark atom chemistries occurring parallel to ordinary chemistries. This may lead to a dichotomy or even trichotomy of physical entities (made of both visible and dark atoms), depending on how one wants to look at this complex hierarchy. The dichotomy will be made of ordinary matter and processes coupled to dark matter and dark processes. That will be a diune structure of ordinary matter and dark energy states. The trichotomy will be triune hierarchical states of ordinary matter, dark matter and energy processes. In other words, the trichotomy will consist of ordinary physicality, extraordinary physicality, and energy processes (both dark and visible). Interactions of Dark Matter Axions can be as Bose-Einstein-Condensate (BEC), which pervade all matter, from ambient to solar environment. However, we are interested only in axions that are confined or condensed within baryonic particles. As already stated, different axion atoms with different but negligible mass, and zero electric charge, may be held together by a binding force other than electromagnetic. The binding force may result from spin, resonance, gravity, entanglement or an as yet unknown force. Then we need to consider: 1. Dark atomic structures similar to those of the ordinary atoms. 2. Bonding between dark atoms, through spin and configurations as in ordinary matter. 3. Coupling of dark atoms to the ordinary atoms. The first two aspects have to address the prospects of electrically charge-less components of dark matter atoms, and their reactions through some kind of bonding. Spin and configuration, entanglement [coupling of the two such that the state of the one determines the state of the other] or a yet to be determined force, may be involved. The asymmetries of structure or forms may also be pertinent factors here. The third question of dark matter coupling to ordinary matter may involve resonance and gravity (exchange of gravitons). If dark atom chemistries are plausible, a hierarchy of products may exist, from dark molecules, genes, cells gametes, and organs to dark organisms, covering all stages of the development of life. These will exist parallel to and isomorphously permeating their visible counterparts. Thus, a dark soma may exist coupled to the visible body and parallel to it. These doubles of luminous atoms coupled to their dark matter forms produce the doubles of atoms, molecules, cells, organs and organisms. The dark forms exist in parallel to the corresponding luminous (ordinary) structures. For example, the ordinary DNA is suffused with an information loaded dark DNA. The genetic code and information on the dark DNA's may also have phylogenic specificities. From the zygote to the total human body, all constituents made of ordinary matter are permeated by their axion counterparts.
Spin Coupling.
If the charge-less shadow particles possess an intrinsic angular momentum (spin) with clockwise and anticlockwise directions (positive and negative signs), spin-spin coupling between dark particles may facilitate dark chemistries parallel to normal chemistries. Instead of, or in addition to, spin-spin coupling, there is the possibility of resonance, entanglement and exchange of gravitons. The spin-charge coupling of dark and ordinary matter may lead to coupling of the shadow particles to the subatomic particles. Evidence seems to be mounting for a positive answer to the question regarding the relationship of the axions to the ordinary matter. It is difficult to conceive of a kind of matter that interacts gravitationally with ordinary matter in the normal way and yet fails to distribute itself in the same geometric formation as that of normal matter. If dark matter is governed by conventional gravity, its distribution will be the same as normal matter. However, it interacts with itself differently from how ordinary matter does with other ordinary matter. Perhaps, spin, entanglement and resonance and quantum properties may play their roles in dark atom interactions. Existence of spin-coupling forces remains open. Any coupling relation existing between luminous and dark matter in a galaxy cluster core should in principle shed light on the physical properties of dark matter relative to the visible mater and perhaps on the nature of dark matter itself. In two recent papers, Giraud (1998) showed that the observed kinematics of disk rotating systems are consistent with a coupling relation between the visible (stars + gas) and dark mass distributions. One force that does act on both is gravity, which means we should be able to detect this effect. There is also the possibility of spin-charge coupling between dark and ordinary particles and spin-spin coupling between dark particles.
Quantum Coupling.
In quantum mechanics, coherence coupling involves objects being in more than one state at the same time. This uncanny concept known as superposition makes instantaneous interaction between objects possible. Quantum computing is an ingenious method of computation that tries to use quantum coupling to carry out logical operations and develop quantum computers. Spin-spin coupling in nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) is an example of quantum coupling where the states of two particles are shared. Quantum coupling is being used to develop quantum computers at IBM. Since such coupling can take place over long distances by the process of entanglement, the coupling is said to be simultaneous. Regardless of whether quantum coupling is really simultaneous or just so fast that it seems simultaneous to us, it is a highly reliable and predictable phenomenon. It is vital to life and makes nanotechnology possible. According to the second law of thermodynamics, no coupling can be 100% efficient in a physical system. However, muscles and brains have molecular motors known as actomyosin complexes which couple energy from ATP into mechanical motion with nearly 100% thermodynamic efficiency.
Resonance Coupling.
Structural resonance contributes to the stability of many molecules or ions. A classical example is the hexagonal benzene molecule with alternate single and double bonds (chemical). This is very common in chemical states, especially organic chemistry where different electronic configurations of the same compound contribute to its extra ordinary stability. Benzene molecule is a well-known example. Usually reality is best represented by a hybrid structure of the resonance entity. Resonance between different electronic configurations strengthens the bonding between adjacent atoms and distributes charge over a greater number of atoms. The hybrid becomes more stable than any individual resonance structure. Here, resonance means stability. (Riordan, p. 213, also: Silk, p. 125). An analogy with Phonon-Photon coupling may be relevant. In solid-state physics, a phonon is a quantum of lattice vibrational energy. In analogy to a photon (a quantum of light) in electromagnetism, the phonon can be viewed as a wave packet with particle-like properties. Its behavior characteristics determine or affect various properties of solids. When photons and phonons interact in semiconductors used in communications systems, undesirable system behavior can occur (Weik 1989). The energy of a phonon is usually less than 0.1 eV (electron volt) and thus is one or two orders of magnitude less than that of a photon. [See the American National Standard Dictionary for Information Technology (ANSDIT), ANSI X3.197-1996, and the draft of the Millennial Edition of ANSDIT 2000].
Matter + mechanical energy = matter + photon emission + phonon emission.
The classical mechanical excitation has a continuous character, but the response energy (photons) is quantified. That is, the mechanical energy is concentrated from the macroscopic and continuous distribution to the local quantum distribution in the atomic scale. In the absorption-emission reactions in solids by mechanical action, the energy transformation occurs from continuous into the quantum states. Likewise, the continuous phonon energy is coupled to the discontinuous light energy. A similar process may exist between the dark and the luminous bodies (and processes). There will be individual differences in these resonance processes. Resonance may be esoteric, but not metaphysical or mystical. At the quantum level there may be a unified field resonating to intensify, through sympathetic vibration, the interactions necessary for any contextual event or phenomenological moment. Such resonance innately possesses complementary aspects of existence and experience such as "conscious and unconscious, voluntary and automatic, nurture and nature, wave and particle, time and space (Keener, 1999). It is a contrasting continuum of complementary characteristics. Holistic self-organization is possible. The luminous body particles may resonate recursively with its shadow self. There may be an explicit quantitative and an implicit qualitative aspect of this dark-luminous particle resonance, at the quantum level.
Extraordinary Chemistry.
With the development of Quantum Mechanics, the atom is no longer considered a solid indivisible mass of particle that cannot interpenetrate other atoms, as was assumed by Dalton, the English chemist and school teacher who developed the atomic theory over one hundred years ago. Only, it does have a solid appearance due to interactions of the electric field. Absence of electric charge in dark matter raises questions about its combining capacity. Some force other than electromagnetic must bind the axion atoms. They could then form a hierarchy of atoms, molecules, compounds, cells etc. which will invisibly penetrate the corresponding visible entities. These dark atoms could interact with each other by their own individual binding force, much like ordinary atoms interact mutually through their electromagnetic binding force. It must be noted that the electric charge is a property of the luminous matter, not a thing in itself. So is spin. When charged bodies interact, that interaction is between properties. We know the role that spins play in chemical interactions. Besides, there may be other charge-equivalent properties enabling charge-less dark matter to interact and lead to dark chemistries and dark physiology at the cellular level. Graviton-exchange, resonance, spin, entanglement or an as yet unknown force may enable them to interact between themselves, couple to and resonate with the ordinary physical world. Surprisingly, modern chemistry somehow has so far omitted dark matter for any such considerations. If these atoms interact with each other through their own distinct binding force, that may lead to subtle chemistries and subtle bodies. Subtle bodies made up of different types of invisible matter, could be a venue to shift the problem of consciousness. This would suggest that mind may be invisible, but superbly physical, of an exotic form, a spiritual body (1Corinthians 15:44).
The Axions of Mind: Microleptons.
As stated already, the axions may exist as both local and cosmic BEC. Eminent Russian researchers posit the idea of an universal lepton gas, having several levels of particle masses between 10-40 and 10-30 grams, with full information about the material world. Anatoly Okhatrin (1989), a Russian physicist, claims that super weak electromagnetic pulses and clusters of the lightest particles called micro leptons carry visual and audible signals, as well as thoughts and feelings, traveling in space-time at almost the speed of light. Super weak pulses of electromagnetic and micro lepton fields carry them. Visual, audible, and other images, and all thoughts and feelings exist in the form of clusters of super light elementary particles of micro leptons. These are reminiscent of Plato's eidoses (ideas or thoughts) autonomously afloat in the air with no boundaries and Aristotelian forms. Thus, thoughts and feelings are material, according to the micro lepton concept. Expressed in mathematical formulae, every single human thought has a mass of weight varying from 10^-30 to 10^-40 g. It must be emphasized that, these are all unverifiable speculations and irreproducible experiments. However, if confirmed, these will be momentous findings. Even if an axion medium exists that is capable of computation, that by itself cannot explain mind and consciousness. These axions must be in a structured form. If micro hadrons such as micro protons and micro neutrons made of micro quarks, and also micro leptons such as micro electrons exist, they all will have zero electric charge. Their masses are few orders of magnitude less than 1 eV. For the somatic axions, we assume that they have their wave functions reduced to zero except within the physical bounds of protons, neutrons and electrons. A dark atom is composed of these dark micro particles. These dark atoms may combine to yield dark chemistries. The mediator, in the quantum depiction of this process may be as elusive as graviton. It is not necessary to totally rule out an intrinsic angular momentum or "spin" for these particles, which could be clockwise (+) or counterclockwise (-). These spins may facilitate dark interactions and dark chemistries via bond forming configurations. These processes analogous and parallel to their luminous counterparts. We assume that micro dark atoms could be formed through these forces, much the same way as ordinary atoms, according to rules similar to the Auf-Bau principle of atomic structure. The resonance between the dark and visible bodies offers a new approach to explicate mental phenomena. Alternatively, the micro proton may have a positive attractive force of +f; the micro-electron may have a negative attractive force of -f. The micro neutron has zero f, where f is an undetermined force factor. For convenience, the micro electron, micro proton and micro neutron are respectively named emoton, psychon (McCulloch and Pitts, 1943) and neumaton. Collectively they may be given the term noumenon, though not necessarily in the Kantian sense. The noumenon here is a permeating axion that isomorphously condenses within an ordinary subatomic particle. Since all life forms are made of the same matter, certain structural and functional similarities at the basic level of the cell components can exist in the different phyla. However, there is a sharp delineation into plant, animal and human, from the inanimate world. The DNA information, both dark and ordinary, is a causal factor here. The ordinary and the dark DNA code seem to differ in content of information in plants, animals and humans. There seems to be genetically determined different subsets of subatomic particles and their dark counterparts in plants, animals and humans. The information associated with the dark matter is different in the animate and inanimate realms; so also are the dark chemistries in each realm. Plants have only emotons; animals have emotons and psychons but no neumatons. Humans have all the three. These differences and/or selectivity are genetically ordained. [See McCulloch and Pitts, 1943 for use of the term psychons]
Plant cells have (electron + Emoton), proton and neutron, where proton and neutron are also suffused with axions which are not confined within them and do not enter into any dark reactions. Alternatively, all the three elementary particles may have the dark counterparts. In either case, the plant genetic materials (both dark and visible) have information that determines the nature and functions of the plant cells. Animal cells have (Psychon + protons), (electron + emoton) and neutron. The dark matter permeates the neutrons in animal cells but have no dark atom chemistries, because the axions are not confined within their neutrons. Then again, all the three elementary particles of animal cells may have the dark complements. In either case, the animal genetic materials (both dark and visible) have information that determines the nature and functions of the animal cells. Humans have all the three subatomic particles permeated with the axions. Human genetic materials, made of both ordinary and dark matter, have information that determines the nature and functions of the human cells. The genetic structure is almost identical in all animals, plants and bacteria. The close resemblance between insects and vertebrates, humans and bacteria are startling! The organs and limbs of animals, the roots, leaves and flowers of plants have all nearly the same universal DNA double helix. For any given living organism, all its cells descend from one cell. Since all living forms are made of the same gluons, quarks and electrons which are completely and exhaustively described by the laws of physics (Tipler, 1994, p xi), it is often assumed that there must be a message about an "all encompassing principle of the unity of life, even more universal than the cell theory" (Klein, 1970, p 150). Yet, living systems are so diverse, even within the same phylum, indicating a corresponding diversity in genetic information. The similarities in the visible genetic structures fails to account for the phylogenic order, including the levels of consciousness and the hierarchy of mental activities, in the biosphere. The subsets described above of subatomic particles and the noumenons of axion like dark matter particles can account for these differences. The electron subsets are the same for all plants, animals and humans. The proton subsets are the same for animals and humans, but different in plants. The neutron subsets are found only in humans and this matrix is empty for both plants and animals. In other words, only emotons participate in plant cells, both emotons and psychons are involved in the animal cells. Only in humans, all three noumenons are active. The information on these subsets within the genetic materials is species specific. :naughty:
Resonance & Consciousness.
Resonance has a relational character. Two or more apparently different things or phenomena are linked. They can selectively communicate being integrated into a systemic whole. The links that unite the visible physical objects and the dark-matter processes have their source in the process of resonance. It initiates and amplifies a vibratory response (a link) in the visible receiving system that is attuned to the dark emitting system, rather similar to tuning a radio set to different radio frequencies. The frequency of the receiving and the emitting systems must be very close or equal. During resonance, the dark matter frequencies can be received by the corresponding foci of the visible body, when energy transfers from the emitting source to the receiver. The received energy brings with it the information forms and patterns of vibrations of the emitting source. Specific energies may be associated with specific feelings, inner states, information, ideas, etc. The details of how the subtle and the ordinary bodies interact can be now pursued without resorting to metaphysics. Scientific methodology may not be effectively applicable for this purpose, until we can experiment with subtle matter directly in super colliders. Then, science, philosophy and psychology and all related fields may possibly undergo a significant revolution, cognitively and technologically. The physical and the mental will loose their customarily dualistic implications. There will be no need for the mystical underpinnings for consciousness, either. What is mental may be a super-physical reality. There is nothing unusual about it in the Western thought, since physical resurrection has been a fundamental New Testament principle, well reasoned and articulated by the Apostle Paul (1 Corinthians Chapter 15, among many others). Then science need not accept and entertain spooky notions and make quantum leaps in to the bizarre to explain consciousness. The resonance between the luminous structural forms and their nonluminous forms made of dark matter is a physical phenomenon, making one recognize the other. This enables us to shift the problem of sentience and consciousness to this subtle body and leave the operational functions to the visible body, and offers a conceptual basis to work from. A dark matter body may be wrapped up in us without being detected. That seems like the mind stuff. But it is physical. Self-awareness is a recognition problem. In the resonance of the parallel structures, each structure is programmed to identify its resonant forms. Recognition is a resonance phenomenon. Resonance between the ordinary and dark matter system act as a body/mind transducer. Consciousness stays as long as the ordinary energy form is connected to the dark matter energy forms. When the body disintegrates, the axion forms remain. Storage and retrieval are the same neuronal procedures. New thoughts will be stored in the axion memory. A new axion thought just "triggers" an old one and the thoughts linked to it, according to the general principle of signaling in the nervous system. This is not Cartesian dualism. It ascribes phenomenal contents to dark-matter forms. Thus, in principle, there is a link between extended brain-state patterns and the extended shapes of phenomenal experience. Then it is no mystery that a circular pattern in the brain substrate would correlate with the same shape in phenomenal experience, rather than a cubical shape.
Paradigm Shift.
Abandoning a baryon-centric view of the physical world to a more complex baryon-nonbaryon system should not collapse the well-established standard model of the particle world. It may dethrone electrons, neutrons and protons (or ordinary baryons) from the center of the physical realm and add an invisible world in resonance with and coupled to the visible world. Possibly, this may offer a scientific basis for solving the mind-body problem. The invisible conscious mind may be of this extraordinary medium. The ordinary brain and the axion brain will exist in resonance and in parallel with each other. A spiritual body is in tune with the original Hebraic and orthodox Christian view of a physical resurrection as found in both the Hebrew and Greek Testaments. (See Job 19:26, Daniel 12: 2-3; Isaiah 26: 19; Mathew 28:9; John 20:27; 21:13-20; 1 Corinthians 15: 44). The difference between a spiritual body and a physical spirit is only semantic. A spiritual body may be an all-pervading body of nonbaryonic matter with no electric charge. This extraordinary stuff may be the axion like dark matter. The mysterious physical-spiritual gap is bridged by means of dark matter. The subtle physics and chemistry of this exotic matter may yield subtle bodies. This may enable us to have a deeper perspective of life, mind, consciousness, the nature of man (pristine and fallen), our position in the universe, a better appreciation of our actions, decisions, free-will and their consequences at personal, social, and global levels. One may have to learn to acclimatize to the idea that what is coupled to and operates on a physical body may very well be superbly or extraordinarily physical. Interestingly, the Biblical record begins with an affirmative statement involving the Creative Word: "Let there be light" (Genesis 1: 2-3). The light here refers to "luminosity", in the original Hebrew. This is stated differently in John 1:1, as "in the beginning was the Word". "Word" archetypically presupposes vibrations of some sort. Because "light or luminosity was separated from darkness"(Genesis 1:3), it seems to indicate here that darkness or dark matter existed before light or luminous matter, and not all of this obscure stuff, or dark matter, was turned into luminosity. Many times in the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures, darkness refers to obscure matter (see James Strongs Concordance). Darkness is referred as follows: "He sets an end to darkness"; "darkness hid in its secret places"; "a swaddling band set for darkness"; "where is its place" (Job 28:3, Job 20:26, 38:9, 38:19); "darkness was under His feet"; "made darkness His secret place", "darkness round about Him"; "blackness of darkness" (Ps. 18:11, Ps 18:9, Jude 13). The space between the "let there be light" instant and the separation of luminous matter from dark matter constitutes time, i.e. space-time. In a general sense, the physics of the brain and the dynamics of conscious mind are related through invisible quantum entities. Neurons are made of semi-local waves of matter in "vacuum" space enveloped by non-local waves. These semi-localized waves collapse into stable structures in the cosmic expanse permeated by "all the non-local waves", as well as some unknown dark matter waves. Thus, a neuron is semi-locally structured piece of the quantum-vacuum continuum, interfacing "matter" and the "vacuum". In this flow of matter-energy quanta, there is an invisible resonance mechanism that generates, store, transfer and recognize information. Dark-matter structures may provide a base for this dark mechanism. At the primary level of reality, the perceptible physical universe itself may be a manifestation of thought. The ontological fabric of the universe smacks of a thought-stuff (Edington, 1928, Jeans, 1929). This mind-stuff need not be metaphysical. It may be the invisible axion forms. As such, the mind-stuff may be a fundamental property of the universe made of discrete quanta of dark matter. There need be no infinite number of parallel universes, as certain interpretations of the quantum theory would require (Everett, 1957). One invisible (dark) parallel universe of intelligence that can produce an immense array of information may straddle the visible universe. The psychons, neumatons and emotons described above may provide the components of this mind stuff, each geometrically permeating the corresponding ordinary particle counterpart. The phenomenon of subjectivity is "an imagining spun out by this mind stuff" (Edington (1928) in resonance with the perceptible physical counterparts.
They are not free floating dark matter particles, but axion-like extraordinary matter existing as Bose-Einstein Condensates (BEC). They are confined within and permeate their conjugate luminous particles (proton, neutron and electron). For each of the physical atom (phi-atom) in the system, a corresponding mind atom (psy-atom) exists. The structure of dark matter and dark chemistries will then provide a means to arrive at the structure of mind. In other words, the elusive mind stuff is made of axion like dark matter. The relation between dark and luminous matter forms may be similar to the semiotic relation between objects and their signs. A manifold S1 of ordinary objects is bound up with an isomorphous manifold of S2 dark objects, with certain fundamental relations existing between the two. An array of phenomenal qualities defined by axion like dark matter structures or conformations may be ordered in a 3-dimensional space, according to their apparent similarities. This will correspond to a neuronal system whose states also can be arranged in a 3-dimensional state space (See Lockwood, 1989). The two states may be equated with each other. The phenomenal qualities may be identical with the dark matter states, confined within, corresponding to, and in resonance with, the ordinary physical systems. Secondary qualities like colors are then merely a series of values of mathematical functions related to the three dimensions of space (Weyl, H, 1934). The secondary properties need not reside in the invisible and inexplicable extra spatial dimensions of something like M-theory, or Bohms curious hidden variables. They are simply the dark neuronal structures.
Conclusion.
Human consciousness is evident but not physically detectable. A non-material thing can be purely physical, such as the photon, neutrino, energy, field, space, time etc., but it makes no such sense to suggest that non-material mind can be physical. The only physical mind that science recognizes is the brain. Axions, and possibly axion atoms made of axion fundamental particles, make it plausible that the invisible mind stuff is physical. Due to the absence of electrical charges in dark matter, other forces such as resonance, spin, graviton-exchange, entanglement or an as yet undetermined force may enable them to interact between themselves, couple to and resonate with the ordinary physical world. Spin and configuration may play important roles here, as in ordinary chemical bonds. The mind-body problem will putatively shift to this invisible internal physicality. A model of consciousness could be developed on the basis that the resonance of a dark soma made of quantum coherent axion like Bose-Einstein Condensate (BEC), with its corresponding ordinary body. Resonance makes each body recognize the other. Recognition is awareness. (PHILIP BENJAMIN). :grrr:
Interestingly, such a trick- rapid and sufficient inhibition of TPJ gives temporary switching down of this horrible computer- computer guarantying metastable symbiosis (or reincarnational ontogenesis) of "subtle" bodies with phys. body. If seriously we must suppose a chain of events, not simply inhibition of TPJ, including certain changes in bio-energetics- not forget about the brain meridians, etc. Really a temporary switching down regardless what is happening further in TPJ. Not so few practical projectors wonder why some fully induced and excellent OBEs end abruptly after short time and absolutely contra will. Obviously, the abovementioned computer (astral hold) is more fundamental than brain; patient with permanent lesion in TPJ (lack of part) may think the doorknob is part of body, etc.etc, the angular gyrus is a complex part of the brain, responsible for things like body and space awareness, and logical sequencing, if something is awry there, a patient might put on his pants first, and then his underwear, and not understand that there's a problem, or the patient might feel like a hand or arm is not connected to the rest of the body, and he can't make it function, but we see not the slightest facilitation of OBEs. The same for ultra-rare cases of no-brainers (A number of writers have drawn attention to instances of mental activity being unaffected (or unaffected to the degree that would be expected) when brain damage or abnormality is present. Darling refers to the case of two hydranencephalic children described by John Lorber: the children had fluid where the cerebrums should have been located, but 'neither children showed any evidence of having a cerebral cortex, [but] the mental development of each appeared normal. New Scientist, 8 January 1995, Darling, p.82.
Darling also remarks that the findings did not attract the attention which was appropriate in the circumstances, and suggests that this was probably due to the fact that 'it raised too many problems or was too far off the beaten track of conventional brain science'. Nonetheless, although the findings were neglected, further research encountered one individual who was deemed to be a 'gross hydranencephalic' and yet he possessed an IQ of 126 and graduated with a first class honours degree in mathematics. And this was despite the fact that he 'had no detectable brain'. ibid. pp.82-83.
Gauld also cites Lorber's work (published tauntingly in an article entitled 'is your brain really necessary?'), J. Lorber, 'Is your brain really necessary? World Medicine, 3 (1980), pp.21-24. as an enigma for physicalism: with the victims of infantile hydrocephalus sometimes possessing as little as 5 per cent of the tissue that would be anticipated, 'many of them manage well despite this immense loss'. Alan Gauld, 'Cognitive psychology, entrapment, and the philosophy of mind', in The Case for Dualism, ed. by John R. Smythies and John Beloff, (Charlottesville, VA: University Press of Virginia, 1989), pp.187-253 (191-192).), not a facilitation of OBEs. One practically familiar with astral projection may feel this metastable symbiosis very directly. This symbiosis or hold is powerful, even very powerful; many practical projectors can feel this hold during half-induced OBEs┘even up to physical pain by attempting to go away (from body). But it is sufficient to somehow switch down the hold and getting away becomes shockingly easy.
The extreme unpopularity of substance dualism really is a problem. Most of today's philosophers are ardent materialists who do not believe in dualism at all since they believe that only the material world exists. Differently in the past when philosophers were less interested in word games and more interested in truth. See Olaf Blankes attempts to declare OBE for identical with multisensory illusions of the entire body related to a failure of integration of proprioceptive, tactile, and visual information of one's body (personal space). A little nightmare for reductionistic approach- overlapping from micropsia (failure...) with partial "astral senses", in certain conditions naturally. For instance, the father of modern philosophy in the West, Descartes, was very suspicious of sensory experience. He made the argument that no one could trust such experience since the individual experiencer might at any given time be dreaming. Only the mind which analyzed and evaluated sensory experience by using "clear and distinct" ideas and categories could arrive at truth, and avoid the many illusions presented by the senses (both in dreams and in waking life).
Confusion was related with Canadian neurosurgeon Wilder Penfield who also succeeded in eliciting an out of body experience using electrical stimulation, but he was stimulating a formally different area of the brain- right superior posterior temporal gyrus. Patient G.A. suffered habitual epileptic attacks that never evoked hallucinations. Yet upon electrical stimulation of her right superior temporal gyrus she spontaneously exclaimed: "I have a queer sensation as if I am not here. As though I were half here and half not
Here." She reported that she had never felt this way before, as if she were floating away. Penfield, W. and Erickson, T.C. (1941) Epilepsy and Cerebral
Localization, Charles C. Thomas Stimulation at a depth of 2 cm. along the superior surface of the temporal lobe, within the fissure of Sylvius, caused the patient to say suddenly, "That bitter-sweet taste on my tongue." He seemed confused and made tasting and swallowing movements. The stimulating current was shut off and the electro-corticogram showed that a slow wave 4 per second generalized rhythm had been set up as an after-discharge. While this was continuing the patient exclaimed: "Oh God! I am leaving my body." Dr. Karagulla, who was observing him, said he looked terrified at the time of the exclamation and made gestures as though he sought help. When the electrocorticogram had returned to normal the patient seemed to be himself again. Penfield W. The role of temporal cortex in certain psychical phenomena. J Ment Sci 1955; 101:451-65.
Nevertheless, this doesn't make any problems. Please, take a look at previous picture EEG during OBE. Certain inhibition covers right angular gyrus- superior posterior temporal gyrus. It doesn't make any problems to undergo stimulation exactly this area.
Compare- It exists an experimental method of inducing near death experiences, the high speed centrifuge used to study the effects of increased gravity on fighter pilots. They have "dreamlets" similar to near death experiences, at the point when blood flow theoretically is stopping in their temporal lobes, +G-induced ischemia (energy reduction) of the cephalic nervous system (Jim Whinnery, 1997). In such cases there is a marked drop or stop in blood flow to the brain temporarily. This reduced perfusion affects the border zone between the territories of two arteries. Arteries branch into more and smaller arteries and arterioles. At the peripheral end of an arterial "tree" the capillaries merge with those of the neighbouring artery in what is called the Watershed Area. When blood flow decreases, the area getting the worst of it is this watershed area. It is the area also suffering any neuronal loss (there is likely always some neuronal loss, varying with the severity of hypoxemia). Watershed areas are in the inferior medial temporal lobe (arteries are posterior cerebral and middle cerebral), sudden hypoxemia can precipitate temporal lobe like seizures. Other watershed areas are in the upper parasagittal areas of frontal lobe (rational, inhibitory, analytical), calcarine occipital lobe (visual), and cerebellar (balance, coordination (arteries are Superior Cerebellar, Anterior Inferior Cerebellar, and Posterior Inferior Cerebellar).
(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3865/10f9jx.jpg)
Sequence of events in TMS: delivery of a single pulse. An
Electrical current of up to 7 kA is generated by a capacitor and discharged (top panel) into a circular, or figure-of-eight shaped, coil which
in turn produces a magnetic pulse of up to 2 Tesla. The pulse has a rise time of approximately 200 mks and a duration of 1 ms (panel 2) and due to its intensity and brevity changes at a rapid rate (panel 3).The changing magnetic field generates an electric field (panel 4) resulting in neural activity (panel 5). The net change in charge density in the cortex is zero (panel 6). In addition to single pulse stimulation some stimulators can deliver trains of pulses up to a rate of 50 Hz. Rapid rate stimulation can induce seizures so there is a trade-off between stimulus intensity and the rate of repetition. The exact area stimulated by the pulse and the depth of stimulation depend on several factors including coil shape and whether the pulse is monophasic or biphasic. The details of the electric current in the stimulating coil and the subsequent effects on neural tissue are taken from Ref [the MagStim 200]. Transcranial magnetic stimulation see
http://www.biomag.helsinki.fi/tms/Thesis/dt.html#1
http://web.archive.org/web/20050319215855/http://www.biomag.helsinki.fi/tms/Thesis/dt.html
What means this for rotating supermagnet? Naturally, you will have substantially lower amplitude of induced electrical field and current (and biologically more favourable sine variable!), if also very longer current pulse duration. This don't rise any substantial questions. The insufficiently understood factor is biologically superhigh frequency as such. Naturally, extreme high frequencies may have biological effects as such, at 400 Hz it is reported strong prolongation of observed effects, at least hippocampus show long term potentiation, a 400 cycles per second electrical stimulation of only 1 second can lead to semipermanent changes in electrical activity and produce observable growth of dentritic spines within 10 minutes. The manufacturing of device makes absolutely any difficulties!!! Naturally, this is not a baby toy. In any way, guaranteed Obe induction does not relate with any kind of baby toys, this must be recognized. :scared3:
Ordinary TMS devices may be basically ineffective in OBE context also because of limited impulses, but as we can se by electrical stimulation the point is continuous stimulation, what equals by so called "vibrations" the subjective rise of "vibrations frequency".
It must be possible to find out optimum rotating magnetic field intensity and frequency relation for ROTATING SUPERMAGNET. Neodymium magnet may be 1- 1,5T, frequency 300-1000 Hz. Supermagnets sell allmagnetics.com, magnet.au.com, gaussboys.com, engconcepts.net, kjmagnetics.com. IMHO it is necessary to fasten magnet in some distance (exact distance may be specified experimentally) from motor- for guaranteed unimpeded motor function. Let make a simple motor axle elongation. Maxon DC brushless sensorless motor and speed control (maxon motor EC22, EC16, motor control 1Q-EC & power unit 8-35 VDC 3-5 A). (Also Medusa brushless, Multiplex Brushless
(http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/3659/11f8fp.jpg)
BL-480/4D etc.). Fastening in some kind of hull IMHO is trivial. I think the needed magnet size is not bigger as 1X1in. Direct working factor is charge density per time constant. Stimulation must be accurate, note where angular gyrus; sylvian fissure etc. is located. Start with the lowest RPM, not with highest. If the stimulation of a certain point gives falling sensation, floatation sensation, flying sensation, micropsia, and macropsia etc. etc. note this point and next time add a few RPM. May be the right stimulation duration is a few seconds; fully induced OBE eventually is self-sustaining for a bit longer time. May be simultaneous stimulation of 2 points- temporo-parietal junction; posterior superior temporal gyrus must be considered. May be the right tactics are- reach first indubitable symptoms (micropsia etc.) and hold on the device certain number of seconds with ensuing HYPERCHARGE and ensuing persistent INHIBITION in temporo-parietal junction. It follows OBE induction by little straining of will or even spontaneous.
If seriously what we have is not a baby toy. Any attempted experimentations will be reasonable in presence of medical sitters, moreover, let us pay attention to train duration in Olaf Blankes experiment- 2 seconds (and OBE entrance duration 0.0 seconds)-consequently we have to do with certain kind of absolute fundamental factor. Blanke said that at other times during the same session the patient screamed, because she "saw" her legs shortening, and "saw" her knees about to hit her face. Simply we see incompletely induced OBE (what confuses some people), a bit insufficient current-not to forget brain stimulation guidelines!!! Also effects of close aura zone- lack of astral sight with closed eyes, micropsia etc. (...applied on partial astral sight) - with open eyes. Alvarado, C. S. & Zingrone, N. L. (1998). A Study of the Features of Out-of-Body Experiences in Relation to Sylvan Muldoons Claims. Proceedings of Presented Papers: The Parapsychological Association 41st Annual Convention. We would find a positive and significant correlation between distance from the physical body during the OBE and a measure of thinking and mental clarity, and a similar positive relationship between the distance measure and a measure of control of movements. In addition, we also expected higher levels of thinking and mental clarity and control of movements at specific distances from the body (below and over eight feet from the body). Finally, we predicted a higher frequency of reports of shocks to the body at the end of the experience if the return to the body was sudden and rapid than when returns were slow and gradual. The hypothesis of a positive correlation between rate of control of movements during the OBE and distance from the physical body was confirmed. Similarly, the prediction of a positive relation between clear thinking/mental clarity (one variable) and distance was also confirmed. If the distances were limited to those less than five feet from the body and those over 15 feet from the body, which clearly include those below and above the eight feet range from the body emphasized by Muldoon for control, the difference was significant. The results for thinking and mental clarity and for shocks to the body were not significant.
Yes, "induced" OBEs are authentical (or real) experiences.
:scared3:
Hi skropenfield, that's very, very good information, thanks a lot !!!!!
I'm going to take a closer look at it, it looks really good.
bye. qbeac.