I don't get it...

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Reason is you still have a little way to go. 15 months is not a long time to be practising conscious-exit obe.  :)

I'm unsure of your terminology as I'm not into doing any kind of meditation or trance energy work. Thus have no idea what you mean. But there is one stage I do very much recognise where you say you see image flashes. That sounds to me you are seeing what I term "stray energy".

At the stage where your collective sense of conscious awareness is plugging into the part of your brain that interfaces with the Astral, you can see flashes of all kinds of shapes and/ior images. Or, with me, sometimes, rather than seeing anything, I can sense a feeling like as if there was someone standing behind me in the Physical; or mabe I just see shadows, or hear pops and bangs, or whatever.

Sometimes I sense very little and just drift through this stage easily and swiftly, and sometimes I might spend a few minutes watching, and/or listening to a combination of any or all of these things.

It can be a frustrating stage to be at because, at first, many times you see a flash of something and the Physical eyes will try to look, or the Physical ears will try to hear. Worst case that will bring you out of it completely, so there is no choice but to begin again. Or it can keep you on the border line thus prevent you from "passing through" and plug into the Astral proper.

I'd say it is 99.9% certain you still have tension at the front of your brain that is preventing your progress. This is something I have been looking into, over the past few months, in order to try and discover what Monroe was going on about when he talks about "phasing in" to the Astral (Ref: Far Journeys and Ultimate Journey).

I discovered that the BIG barrier to allowing your sense of consciousness to plug into the Astral (or "phase in" as Monroe puts it) is physical tension at the front part of the brain. That is to say, around the eye area and up behind the forehead. Well, strictly speaking, it wasn't me who discovered it entirely. I was given the idea by an Astral guide.

It was something I never thought of before. Years ago, I discovered that relaxing from the head downwards was way, way more effective than relaxing from the feet upwards. But it never occured to me to think about think about tension in the structure of the brain itself.

What I have also discovered is that tension in the body (of course, provided you have no injuries or other physical problems) is *directly* caused by tension in the brain. Such that, releasing brain-based tension can cause some amazing and immediate effects in the physical body.

For instance, once I was practising seeking out any brain tension. I'd first gotten to the stage where I was relaxed to the point where normally I'd have around 15 to 20 minutes more work in deepening the relaxation state and I'd be at the point of sensing "stray energy".

I imagine the part of the brain that holds the tension is like a squashy rubber ball that has gone a little hard. I think of these tiny hands gently manipulating and massaging this ball and, as I do so, the ball softens and parts. So, on this occasion, I was allowing my sense of conscious awareness to drift upwards to plug into the Astral, as per usual, and perceived the normal sense of resistance.

What I would normally do, at this stage, is imagine I was "looking out" from a point on my forehead that was situated between and just a little up from my physical eyes. Eventually, I would lose all physical-body feeling and begin seeing stray energy. But instead of doing that, I was practising trying to reach the part of my brain that was "resisting" the drifting upwards movement of my sense of conscious awareness.

This was about my tenth attempt, over about 3 weeks or so, and I was trying to reach a point of my brain that seemed about 2 inches behind and 1 inch below my physical eyes. So there I was, imagining this part of the brain as a squashy rubber ball that was gradually softening to the point where the two halves would part. This would form a pathway in order to allow my sense of conscious awareness to continue drifting upwards.

It was a tricky thing to do. Sometimes it felt like I'd got it spot on, and other times I simply wasn't sure. However, on this occasion, after about 5 minutes of massaging, suddenly all sensation of my physical body simply went away. And instantly, I thought, "Wow!"

It was rather surprising and quite an amazing feeling having the Physical literally switch-off. I mean, it was exactly like when you switch off a light at night, and the room instantly goes from light to dark.

I lay there for about 5 minutes, in this state, chuckling to myself realising I had discovered something significant. Not only that, I had truly (and finally!) discovered what Monroe means by "mind awake, body asleep". My mind was incredibly bright and alert, but I had absolutely no feeling of a physical body whatsoever. Not even an inkling, absolutely zilch.  

In fact, I imagined that if I had gotten into that same state just accidentally, without knowing anything about obe, etc., it would have been very scary to say the least. Because, even when I thought about moving, it was a case of moving what? There was no sensation of anything physical.

So now when I come to project, I found that there is no need for me to even think about relaxing the physical-body at all. I simply lie back and think of forming a pathway through the brain that leads to the part that connects with the Astral.

At the moment, I just have a inkling of where it is, and it's like I have to clear the tension each time. But each time I do, it gets just a fraction easier. In the sense that it feels like any kind of human learning process. For example, learning to play an instrument. Practise regularly and each week you make a little more progress; because the act of repeating the same actions, over and over, forms permanent pathways in the brain that control the precisely timed muscle movements.  

My theory is, the more this pathway to the part of the brain that connects with the Astral is consciously formed and trodden, the more permanent and defined it becomes. And that's what I think Monroe had developed.

All he had to do was to "think" about the Astral and instantly he would connect with it. In exactly the same way as if you have a friend you telephone regularly. All you have to do is think of that friend and their telephone number instantly comes in mind.

Well, that's the theory (for what it's worth).  



Greetings all,
  bitsmart , I can relate to the , "I dont get it" situation your in. I've been trying continuousIy for 8 months. I did a Astral workshop at a centre a  while back and found it a little frustrating as the students achieved conscious projections one by one. I was happy for them as it gave my practices a bit of a boost. It's good to read your getting flashes of imagery/hypnogogia. I get absoloutly nothing as far as images/vibrations ect. I'm slowly getting closer to the point where you fall of to sleep. I do my pratices laying on my back and actualy fell a sleep on back for the first time the other night. So at least that's some progress. Each day I affirm" tonights the night", just reading your post and typing this reply has given me a bit of a boost. I look at this way, because where creeping up on it slowly, once we get out we should be really familiar with the lead up procedure and be able to do it on a regular basis. Like i said," tonights the night".    Well have to start a" i dont get it club"

 [Frank]  thanks for post's,        "I'm off to sponge my brain"

Regards  steve


I want to thank you Frank for this last post and a few of the others you have made.
Most of us getting many symptoms indicating that we are near but unable to exit, reside in small details. Your personal imput on this is very helpfull.
That is why I think that the first OBE is the most difficult. Once you had an OBE, you have the most important info to work towards the second. You know the path, you've been there.
Every time you write about this, your "astral interface" as you call it, we get to know a little more on how to do it, and identify our problemed areas.
So please Frank, keep talking about your "interface", even if it seem repetitive to you, we all get a little more depth in this subtle and so tricky process.


hah. got you all beat. using energy for 5 years and not had a conscious oobe.  so don't fret people. does it really matter that you haven't oobe'd yet? try doing other things as well, like trying for auric sight, or claurvoyance. don't limit yourself to one thing and then get bummed out when it isn't working. try doing lots of things; maybe some of the skills you learn in other areas will let you oobe consciously.

but most importantly, have fun!  :)  it isn't like you are in a life and death situation, so just relax and treat it as a hobby rather than a job/chore.  :)


Secret of Secrets


Thanks again Frank . . . ever think of writing a book?  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

I have to throw out a caveat on the "work the brain first" technique.  I've heard that working that third-eye area without getting the energy pathways in the rest of your body straight-and-flowing first can be dangerous.  But after you get your energy flowing, and get that meditation down - - - hey I think we neglect our brains and Frank's squishy ball technique could become a classic.

I guess those of us who "launch" fairly easily should consider ourselves lucky, as long as it's what we want to do.  It probably means our energy pathways are chugging away just fine without a lot of intervention or power-building exercises.  Once, at a festival, there was this young woman who stared at me for days.  Finally she asked me what I was "doing."  She said my aura was a blast of bright white light which would change from rainbow multi-colors and back to brilliant white again.  I said . . . "huh?" I don't see auras, and  at the time I wasn't doing any energy work at all.  I found it very interesting, though.

Kakkarot is right . . . the OBE is not the only thing in the world.  But here are a few things for everyone to work on if meditation alone isn't doing it for them:  

1) Forgive everyone you are angry at.  Whether they deserve it is not the point. The point is to relieve tension.  If you've got resentments, you've got tension, you got tension, you got NO OBEs.  Get it?  

2) Engage yourself in the world.  WATCH - hear, see, taste, feel. Pay attention to every little moment.  Don't get spun up over anything.  Find peace with the world's so-called "imperfections" - because, after all, everything you find "wrong" about the world is actually a part of its design, so you might as well find peace with it.

3)  Say and do nice things for people when they're not looking.

These tasks should keep you so occupied that you will forget all about having OBEs . . . and that's the day you probably will have one.




FRANK!!!!!!   you tell bitsmart that 15 months may not be enough,  but i have only been trying for about 2 months and you said i was nearing OBE.
are there different levels of alertness in the astral?????  I assume that most people arent as aware as they are in the physical first time they obe,  could someone clear things up here?



oh so right bitsmart, karrot, steveb and Tish, it sure is frustrating at the beginning, in fact it stays like that for ages.

Like Frank says, try relaxing down from the head to the feet, it is a better method than the other way around. The bit about the pathway to the brain was something I too got in a meditation a few years back and it opened me up heaps.

As Frank says, there is a part of the midbrain that is atuned to the astral. By relaxing this you will enter deeper states of trance, and further. So what I do is much like Frank, relax the midbrain, I also breath chi through it oo, it speeds things up.

If I am tired I will also relax the forebrain, the front part of the brain which induces astral sight, the third eye.

It took me 13 years to be able to do this consciously so 15 months and 5 years ain't too bad. Good luck, and just keep meditating, but don't push too hard, it stops you relaxing where it is needed most, in your head.


"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"The marriage of the ancient arts of astrology, taoism, tantra and the modern science of psychology."


You guys might want to check out the book "The Power of NOW." It's about spiritual enlightenment, but it's extremely practical and mechanical about states of mind. I think "going into the now" is the key to obe, auric sight, energy work... It also correlates w/ Tisha's comment about WATCH. If you have the money, I strongly recommend this book.

Best of luck, everyone.



Wow, excellent responses all around. Thanks everyone, way more than I could have hoped for. I want to address as much of this as I can...

Frank, as always, you bring a unique perspective to this field, and I continue to find your information well-versed and making sense.

kakkarot, you're absolutely right. I never take anything too seriously, and I have been doing lots of other spiritual experimentation (clairvoyance is FUN.) I just sometimes see text making it sound so easy and wondering what I could be doing wrong...it really stumps me sometimes, but I'm most likely tricking myself.

Tisha, you make some good points. Your three 'tasks' to keep yourself occupied are also very good advice. The whole WATCH idea has made my life very interesting recently, as my world has become an assault on my senses. When I'm Tantric, everything is erotic. Heh.

astralc, you reiterated what Frank said about relaxing the midbrain and relaxing from the top down, so I will really try experimenting with that. I also thing that as I progress further and further, I'll relax a little more; the 'flow' will pick up speed and I'll start letting my progress happen rather than making it, and BAM. Also, I must learn to forget I have a body, as this is a new idea to me.

kifyre, the power of now is very powerful indeed, and it sounds like a good book just from the title. The WATCH thing holds the potential for one of the most spiritually transforming experiences possible for your average human. I've experienced moments of enlightenment over the past couple years, but seeing the absolute beauty of everything in the world around me is definitely at the top of the list. I revel in it...

"In the absence of trying to set myself free,
for the first time I opened my eyes up to see

bitsmart -
information illumination -
bitsmart@bitsmart.org -


Someone asked what the consciousness level is like the first time you OBE, with the idea that consciousness gets stronger with practice.

Well, keeping in mind that we perhaps all OBE every night and have ever since we were born, the first time I became AWARE of being separate from my body - I was about 32 years old - and the shock jolted me to full awareness.  I don't think it was 'hyper-real' but it was as real as physical. The second experience was the same.

Everything subsequent has been less conscious - Still aware, still able to explore and expand my understanding, but I am mildly groggy. Like "Oh yeah, another travel. Wake me up when it's over."  Which really ticks me off when I wake up and feel like I missed an opportunity, though I am THRILLED at the relative frequency of even mild experiences after 32 years of basically nothing.

Well, you have all motivated me to turn in and try some of these tweaks on old techniques.



Frank, thanks very much for the pointer on relaxing from the top down rather than vice versa. How long do you spend on the head? do you try to relax your brain in any way? Do you have any other techniques aside from progreesive muscle relaxation (tensing and releasing)?

Answers from anyone is helpful... Now that I look at it I realise that I have never seriously looked at my relaxation technique.

- Ashfo

"You are First Cause. You are a portion of the great energy. And you, yourselves are thought manifestations of what you think you are."


Ashfo, I don't actually do any progressive muscle relaxation such as tensing and releasing. To my mind, that would only concentrate my sense of conscious awareness on the physical body. All I do with the physical is to simply lie back in a comfortable position, with my head and neck supported, etc.

From my interaction with this BBS, I have discovered that if you move your focal point of awareness around various areas of the physical body you can excite "Chakras". Doing this can give you all kinds of weird and wonderful sensations... but this is not Astral Projection.

For successful conscious-exit obe you have to simply let go of the physical entirely. In a nutshell, what you have to do is initiate the natural bodily sleep-reflex, but keep your collective sense of conscious awareness switched on.

A lot of so-called projection techniques I read about tell you to go around the physical and concentrate on releasing muscular tension by various methods. To a certain extent this will work; in that releasing muscular tension has the effect of releasing tension in the corresponding part of the brain.

However, it is a whole load more efficient doing it the other way around. First, because you are going direct to the root cause of the tension and, second, you are concentrating your awareness *away* from the physical body.

To my mind, it is somewhat self-defeating (well it was for me) to set off on a process of "letting go" of your physical body, by first concentrating your awareness on it. The way I see that, is it's like you want to drive a hundred miles south of where you live. So you set off driving two hundred miles north then turn around.

Okay, not everyone will agree. But all I am trying to do is give people the benefit of my experience FWIW.

The dillema is, that tension in the physical body IS a direct bar to successful conscious-exit obe. So the question arose, "How do I release tension in the physical body without actually concentrating my awareness on it?"

This question led me to make an important discovery (with a little help from an Astral guide and from something Monroe said on the CD). The important aspect, I discovered, is that muscular tension in the physical (provided you have no injuries and the like) is *directly* caused by tension in the brain.

I only came across this fairly recently so I am still experimenting. But I have extended my squashy-ball method, that I spoke of on another post, and I am practising taking my focal point of awareness into places that I perceive as small areas of the brain, in the front upper region. This has given some startling effects.

As I say, I have only recently began doing this so it is all a bit hit and miss, at the moment. The other morning I happened to hit on a place that has the effect of instantly switching off the physical. This morning I felt some place and it was like my physical body started vibrating, quite violently as it happened. Which took me completely by surprise and threw me back into the physical.

At another place I began seeing flashes of light and colour and, next moment, I'm standing on the Astral. Which again took me so much by surprise I jumped back into the physical. You see, normally I begin seeing stray energy and then the Astral scenary gradually comes into focus. But this was instant, which will take a little getting used to.

This is what I think Monroe was doing when he talks about "phasing in" to the Astral. There was no spending hours doing all kinds of muscular relaxation stuff, or energy raising, or meditation, or anything like that. Instead, he simply made himself comfortable and just moved his focus of consciousness to a place in his brain that immediately switched-off the physical and made contact with the Astral (at least I think that's the theory).

The big question is how?

And how I wish I had a clear answer, but at best it is all a muddle. Consider also that Monroe could even "phase in" to the Astral whilst physically awake... which is another great can of worms to chew on.



Frank: I think I understand what you mean by relaxing the brain. But how do you detect the tenseness in order to relax it? Does it have a certain feeling? I can tense, so to speak, my brain and make it feel a bit like a slightly loaded muscle. Would you say this is the opposite?

Others: I'm beginning to suspect that inducing an OBE ultimately relies on not trying for it but setting the stage and the allowing it to happen. Trying top force it will create a stress load in the physical body/mind and thus prevent the projection. I myself just get so frustrated faiingl at not doing anything.



Hi Jouni -

I agree that it can be frustrating to fail, but I currently think it is important to continue to work towards the goal as best you are able. Don't get me wrong -just forgetting about it for a while might allow you to have an experience that you would be too frustrated to have otherwise,  but although I have had sporadic experiences over the last few years with that approach, I haven't seen any real progress in my abilities. I think working towards the goal, even if it seems like there is little payoff (but usually you can identify some small payoff - like better dream recall or a new sensation) is a better course for the long haul.

I read your other post asking for input - I wish I had something useful to offer but I don't have much - except that trusting your instincts is good, and focusing is good - So you might want to immerse yourself in Astral Dynamics to build a thought-framework to work with?  I also like Bob Monroe's thinking on the topic, and Bob Peterson's. (both are authors.)

Frank - it was good for me to reread your post on relaxation, the one two posts up. I am curious if you have vibrations or what signals tell you to exit? I can relax to some degree, and when I focus on a point outside my body there is immediate tugging on 'me' in that direction, but clearly something is holding me in. Not relaxed enough? Do I need to wait for vibrations? (my obe's and other altered conscious experiences have primarily been from a sleep state wherein I regained conscious awareness.) What's the "password" to pass "go?"



Patty: Thanks for the comment. I agree that to get results one must keep the goal firmly in mind. But I believe that along the way doing the zen thing and not focusing on  the methods is a good way to break through an obstacle.

From Robert's book I gathered that the clue is to go through the exit without paying attention to it, and this is the bit that's giving me trouble. As soon as I get close I notice what's happening and ten try to ignore it thus drawing more attention to what's happening etc.. I guess I need to work on keeping my mind even more clear than it is. Expecting something to happen may be what's stoppiing progress for me.



that's it . . . that's exactly it . . . you've got it!

gotta do the zen thing

the other night I had vibrations/exit sensations FOUR TIMES and each time I thought ok, that's it, I'm ready to launch . . . and pfffft nothing happened.  I just got too aware of my body, and stressed out about it too much by getting excited.

zen . . . perhaps I shall study doing-by-not-doing for awhile.




Patty, I do not have any kind of "exit technique". Any thoughts about such a thing, at that critical point of projection, will scupper the attempt. You simply allow it to happen: which is a process that is about a zillion times easier to say than to do. (Well, it was for me, that is).

Also, with me, my focal point of awareness is not "outside of my body". I place it around the top of my head area.

I used to get vibrations before shooting off. But after around 6-months of concentrating on slowing down the whole process, I now practise simply letting go of the physical and mentally stepping into the Astral.

I can only, at the moment, do this around one or two in about ten attempts. But soon it will be three in ten, then four, etc. Well, that's what I hope.

The BIG problem, for me, Tisha touched on in her post. I got used to my old way of doing things and, because things have changed, "the physical" tends to step in wondering stuff like: how; why; what; where? Which completely wrecks what I'm about to do.      

I have so much sympathy for those who try and try and try. Then, one night/morning, suddenly there's an inkling of a vibration and (quite naturally) they automatically think: "Wow, I'm........" And it's gone.

For those stiil trying, without any success at all, the best tip I can give you is to hold the idea of obe in mind - constantly - while going about your ordinary business in the physical.

But generally, the key thing is, to my mind, is to want to do it because you are curious of the outcome. And not for any other reason.... like... you want to go see the (so called) Akashik Records to view next week's lottery numbers. :)



Frank I don't know if you will happen to come back to read this but I just wanted to thank you for the squashy rubber ball technique I have had a kind of tention in my head/brain for a very long time and it never seems to go away its like a mild headache. Well last night while trying to quite my thoughts I thought of your technique and began feeling for the tention in my brain I slowly  covered all the areas that were tense and when I found them I kind of massaged them with the squashy rubber ball technique and for the First time in a very long time I was able to releive the tention in my brain it feels great not to have a headache http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> Thanks again

To make the best better


OK, I've been doing energy work and attempting projections for about 15 months now. Over that time, I've made corrections to my practices (like including relaxation and trance) as I realized I had kind of half-done them. I'm good at stilling the mind reaching a full trance, and my energy skills are the strongest of everything. I see flashes of imagery/hypnogogia. What's wrong here? Why haven't I had a conscious exit yet? I'm even keeping a dream journal to strengthen my memory download skills.

I wouldn't normally think much of this, but it sounds like so many people on the board are accomplishing conscious exits and remembering them without nearly as much work as myself. It's getting a bit frustrating. I enjoy the benefits and results of meditation/trance/energy work, but I can't believe that I haven't 'suceeded' yet. What's going on?

bitsmart -
information illumination -
bitsmart@bitsmart.org -