Sorry for not introducing myself properly, but I'm itching to ask a question. I've been able to lucid dream irregularly for the last few years, but I want to go deeper and with my astral explorations. I bought the first 3 waves of the Gateway Experience last month. For the first three weeks I was just galloping through them, but now I've gone right back to the beginning, and I'm working very slowly through each level. I've read some threads on here and they were very helpful - they suggest focusing on wave I track 2 and that is what I've been doing. I'm managing about 5-6 sessions a day. I think I'm putting a decent effort into this practice at the moment. I'm also a long term meditator, and I had hoped that this would give me a head start. I had a couple of lucid dreams in the first week and one almost out of body experience but since then nothing. It seems strange to me that I'd experience more in the first week than I would three weeks later. Is this normal? It sometimes feels as if the more effort I put into it the less impressive are my results. I suppose I'm looking for a pep talk here.
Hi, although I haven't used your methods to try and induce an AP, I do think it is normal for AP's to come in fits and starts. In other words, sometimes they come more frequently than others. Most of this month I have not even attempted to induce any, because things have been so hectic, and I have been too tired and stressed to even try. Now that things are calming down somewhat I am planning to. Just stick with it, and when you are ready, you will progress even further.
Quote from: twilighter on May 26, 2012, 22:05:11
Hi, although I haven't used your methods to try and induce an AP, I do think it is normal for AP's to come in fits and starts. In other words, sometimes they come more frequently than others. Most of this month I have not even attempted to induce any, because things have been so hectic, and I have been too tired and stressed to even try. Now that things are calming down somewhat I am planning to. Just stick with it, and when you are ready, you will progress even further.
Thanks Twilighter, I suppose I'm just looking for a sign that I'm moving in the right direction. When there is a lack of results I can't help wondering if I'm doing something wrong.
Quote from: Paul-garr on May 26, 2012, 22:21:10
Thanks Twilighter, I suppose I'm just looking for a sign that I'm moving in the right direction. When there is a lack of results I can't help wondering if I'm doing something wrong.
I understand how you feel. I tried nightly for over 2 weeks, and still had no results. Then one night, when I wasn't even trying, and was sleeping in a strange bed in a motel room...It happened, I had an OBE after being woken from the sound of a car alarm. With practice they will come easier. For me, I find they comes easier if I choose a time when I am not too sleepy, or stressed, when I can clear my thoughts and lay in a quiet room, and just listen and gaze through my closed eyelids. It's only a tool, but I try and imagine a white light entering the top of my head, which somehow brings on the vibrational state. Under the right conditions, it works. But it does take patients, and it isn't always foolproof. Still it never hurts to try. Good luck to you.
Quote from: twilighter on May 27, 2012, 03:25:46
I understand how you feel. I tried nightly for over 2 weeks, and still had no results. Then one night, when I wasn't even trying, and was sleeping in a strange bed in a motel room...It happened, I had an OBE after being woken from the sound of a car alarm. With practice they will come easier. For me, I find they comes easier if I choose a time when I am not too sleepy, or stressed, when I can clear my thoughts and lay in a quiet room, and just listen and gaze through my closed eyelids. It's only a tool, but I try and imagine a white light entering the top of my head, which somehow brings on the vibrational state. Under the right conditions, it works. But it does take patients, and it isn't always foolproof. Still it never hurts to try. Good luck to you.
It's strange isn't it. We can put a lot of effort into something but only see results after we've given up. I don't mind dedicating time and energy to activities that will help produce these states of consciousness, but I'm less enthusiastic about wasting time on something that isn't really helping. Life is too short.
Yes, it is strange how sometimes things come easier when you aren't trying. For me though, once I actually felt myself go out of body, I was amazed, and knew I had to learn more. My method was just to read and watch anything on astral projection, that I could get my hands on. I am still in the very early stages though. I have yet to visit any astral realms, and have yet to even go outside my house... at least not consicously. None the less, I definitely want to experience more. If you feel you're getting stuck, perhaps you can try an alternate method, or maybe some our more experienced AP'ers have some tips.
Paul,
If you already lucid dream why don't you develop that instead, it will be much easier to develop than a 'direct' entry method such as a phasing meditation / obe attempt.
I use LD's mostly to enter.
Also if you develop LD's they will slowly leak into your other abilities, you will be able to 'phase' in the morning like a WILD (Wake induced lucid dreaming - you close your eyes and basically phase out right into the astral).
It sounds like you can already enter the building (astral) through one door (lucid dreaming), why are you trying to enter through a more difficult door now (phase meditation)?
Quote from: nikolai on May 27, 2012, 05:15:05
Paul,
If you already lucid dream why don't you develop that instead, it will be much easier to develop than a 'direct' entry method such as a phasing meditation / obe attempt.
I use LD's mostly to enter.
Also if you develop LD's they will slowly leak into your other abilities, you will be able to 'phase' in the morning like a WILD (Wake induced lucid dreaming - you close your eyes and basically phase out right into the astral).
It sounds like you can already enter the building (astral) through one door (lucid dreaming), why are you trying to enter through a more difficult door now (phase meditation)?
You make a very good point nikolai, but I just haven't had much luck with the lucid dream method. My LDs come when they want to come, and if I make any attempt to encourage them they seem to stop completely. I spent a few months using the reality check method, but that seemed to make things worse. I also flit in and out of lucid dreams far too easily. I was sort of hoping that a new approach would give me more control and allow me to take things to a new level. I'm working on the assumption that if I keep doing the same things the same things will keep on happening so that forced me to try something different.
I like the idea of following some type of program and the Monroe method seems to be well respected. I've also invested what is for me a large chunk of money in the first 3 waves of that program- my wife would kill me if this turned out to be another of my fads purchases :)
Quote from: twilighter on May 27, 2012, 04:20:34
Yes, it is strange how sometimes things come easier when you aren't trying. For me though, once I actually felt myself go out of body, I was amazed, and knew I had to learn more. My method was just to read and watch anything on astral projection, that I could get my hands on. I am still in the very early stages though. I have yet to visit any astral realms, and have yet to even go outside my house... at least not consicously. None the less, I definitely want to experience more. If you feel you're getting stuck, perhaps you can try an alternate method, or maybe some our more experienced AP'ers have some tips.
Thanks Twilighter, we are lucky to have so much information available on the web.
We are.
My advice, be patience. I've been trying this for more than 4 months, maybe 5. I've found out (in my case), that astral projecting is the highest spot you can reach in this field. I mean, meditation, energy work and all of that, is a training to be able to get to OBE regularly, and at will.
So enjoy your way to get there.
I'm actually focusing on passive methods as well (after months trying the active ones). Everything is useful, even if you don't manage to get out of body, you get to know your self better and will have some interesting and fun experiences in your way.
Keep it up!!, and keep us posted
I know exactly what you mean about LD'ing,
The trick with LD'ing and indeed phasing and obe-ing, I believe is this:
You train hardcore for 2 days, and then do nothing at all for 2-3 days, then train again hardcore for 2 days, then again do not do a single rc for 2-3 days.
By 'hardcore' you can do what I do, which is record dreams and do about 200-300 reality checks a day. The way I do reality checks is in sets of 10-15 (eg: if I'm in the bathroom washing my hands I do 10-15 reality checks in one go.
The easiest way to do this is imagine the whole environment around you is made of jelly, so try to put your hands through every single solid thing (eg: wall, your own hand, your leg, your stomach, mirror, a pipe on the wall, everything) and try to grab and squeeze every single solid thing as if you are squeezing jelly. This way you can do many RC's in a day. Just on the walk to the bathroom I do around 10 by simply trying to grab and squeeze everything on the way - door, cupboard, wall, tv, chair (imagine everything is jelly). Then in the dream environment you will end up putting your hand thru something solid and go lucid.
Then take a break and don't do anything at all for 3 days.
The point is that when you train for the ld (eg: reality checks, affirmations) and indeed any other kind of mental training, you spend quite a lot of energy (lets call this energy of the 'astral body'), so when you go to sleep there is not that much energy left to go conscious or indeed to exit via an obe/phasing method. This is even worse if you feel any kind of disappointment in your efforts (the disappointment drains emotional energy which is even worse, as its all connected back to the astral 'body')
Then you find most of your trips happen during such 'breaks' rather than during the actual days when you train. Its strange but thats how it works for me.
I actually managed some progress last night and it has lifted my spirits. I had a mini out of body experience. It was a very strange one. I was just drifting off to sleep when it suddenly felt like I'd hit the sweet spot in my focus. I fell out of body at a rapid pace and then sort of looped up. I couldn't really see anything though. As my vision became clearer I couldn't see myself in the bed, but then I realized that I'd somehow ended up back in the bed. I'm not sure what to make of this, but it felt like progress. I had a similar experience in my first week using the Gateway Experience but then I couldn't see anything at all.
I think the difference this time was that I focused on the area of my 3rd eye area as I was falling asleep. I got that tip from reading back on some of the old threads on here. That 3rd eye area tends to feel really active whenever I am meditating or relaxed, but I never saw the connection between it and astral travel. I didn't really know anything about the 3rd eye until I began experiencing strange sensations there. If last night is anything to go by then perhaps it is the missing ingredient.
Quote from: Anonymouse on May 27, 2012, 09:56:45
We are.
My advice, be patience. I've been trying this for more than 4 months, maybe 5. I've found out (in my case), that astral projecting is the highest spot you can reach in this field. I mean, meditation, energy work and all of that, is a training to be able to get to OBE regularly, and at will.
So enjoy your way to get there.
I'm actually focusing on passive methods as well (after months trying the active ones). Everything is useful, even if you don't manage to get out of body, you get to know your self better and will have some interesting and fun experiences in your way.
Keep it up!!, and keep us posted
I think you're right about this being the highest spot we can reach in this filed. I need to remember to enjoy the journey and not to be so obsessed with the goal. I'll need to investigate the passive methods – I'm not sure what they are.
Quote from: nikolai on May 27, 2012, 12:23:49
I know exactly what you mean about LD'ing,
The trick with LD'ing and indeed phasing and obe-ing, I believe is this:
You train hardcore for 2 days, and then do nothing at all for 2-3 days, then train again hardcore for 2 days, then again do not do a single rc for 2-3 days.
By 'hardcore' you can do what I do, which is record dreams and do about 200-300 reality checks a day. The way I do reality checks is in sets of 10-15 (eg: if I'm in the bathroom washing my hands I do 10-15 reality checks in one go.
The easiest way to do this is imagine the whole environment around you is made of jelly, so try to put your hands through every single solid thing (eg: wall, your own hand, your leg, your stomach, mirror, a pipe on the wall, everything) and try to grab and squeeze every single solid thing as if you are squeezing jelly. This way you can do many RC's in a day. Just on the walk to the bathroom I do around 10 by simply trying to grab and squeeze everything on the way - door, cupboard, wall, tv, chair (imagine everything is jelly). Then in the dream environment you will end up putting your hand thru something solid and go lucid.
Then take a break and don't do anything at all for 3 days.
The point is that when you train for the ld (eg: reality checks, affirmations) and indeed any other kind of mental training, you spend quite a lot of energy (lets call this energy of the 'astral body'), so when you go to sleep there is not that much energy left to go conscious or indeed to exit via an obe/phasing method. This is even worse if you feel any kind of disappointment in your efforts (the disappointment drains emotional energy which is even worse, as its all connected back to the astral 'body')
Then you find most of your trips happen during such 'breaks' rather than during the actual days when you train. Its strange but thats how it works for me.
That sounds bizarre, but it also makes complete sense. I can feel guilty about taking breaks but maybe that is exactly what I need. I love the idea of imagining the world as jelly. That is the type of reality check that would impact my mind – thanks for that.
Quote from: Paul-garr on May 27, 2012, 07:44:29
Thanks Twilighter, we are lucky to have so much information available on the web.
So true! This is a great site to learn all kinds of useful information where AP is concerned. The people here are very well informed and very helpful.
Quote from: twilighter on May 27, 2012, 20:07:14
So true! This is a great site to learn all kinds of useful information where AP is concerned. The people here are very well informed and very helpful.
I've been looking back on the old threads here. The long term users must be bored stupid answering the same questions all the time :)
Quote from: Paul-garr on May 27, 2012, 20:11:31
I've been looking back on the old threads here. The long term users must be bored stupid answering the same questions all the time :)
Probably true. Still, lucky for us such a site exists.
Quote from: twilighter on May 27, 2012, 20:13:52
Probably true. Still, lucky for us such a site exists.
Definitely!
Man all I know is when its your time, its your time, and you can't force anything. And the more frustrated you get, the harder it will be. Im sure your higher self knows exactly when you are ready for the next level of experience, whatever that may be for you. It took me about 4 years (yes years) after becoming obsessed with the idea of OBE to have my first fully-conscious OBE, just a few weeks ago. And to be perfectly honest I wasn't always 100% focused on my techniques and practices, thats probably why it took me so long. I remember reading my first Bob Monroe book and that was it. I wanted nothing more than to just get to the vibrational state, and I was going crazy with all the amazing possibilities that astral projection presented. So I would try pretty hardcore for a couple weeks at a time, and nothing would happen. I even had the privilege of taking an OBE workshop with none other than the great William Buhlman in Boulder and still not much progress. I was getting much better at meditation though, and having some pretty profound experiences that way.
So this continued for at least a year and a half to two years since I first read Monroe and wanted to OBE, I would just get really excited and practice hard for a couple weeks, and then kinda just go back to normal life and give it a break. I would give myself a "fresh start" at the beginnings of some months and tell myself "this is going to be Out-of-Body August" and "I'm going to practice everyday for the next month." But it seems like life was always interrupting and distracting me. Then about two years in, during a layover time where I wasn't practicing at all, Bam! I got my first vibrational state experience following a lucid dream. (and I now know that this was the higher vibrational state of kundalini vibes, which I learned from this site... almost all my vibes now are the lower frequency type) I was blown away by this. I mean like crying tears of joy for 10 minutes in my bed afterwards. It confirmed all this stuff I had been reading for the past few years (more than that if you count all metaphysical reading in general) and I was astonished at the intensity of the vibes, they truly are unmistakable. They only lasted about a minute and I remember I got my arms loose from my body, but not even a full OBE. But the main point here is that I wasn't even focused on AP or OBE at that time and wasn't even trying. It was au natural...
Then another 2 years go by and Ive reached the vibe state many times now, but it always freaks me out, I panic, and can never separate into an OBE. My practice routine is about the same, every couple months ill get back into it, but at this point I'm not trying to force anything and Im growing a lot spiritually and Im pretty content just knowing that we are all spirits and that we all make it back to the astral at some point or another, no death, all that good stuff. And all this talk about 2012 and a golden age of prosperity and manifestation is enough to keep me content just to be alive in these times, and Im just trying to work on "be here now" and Im seeing that a lot of my "spiritual" practices have major foundations in escapism, like I didn't want to be on Earth anymore, I just wanted to go explore the cosmos and other dimensions. So I'm becoming more aware of this, and Im getting myself connected back into society and humanity and really trying to just be present and content with myself, happy to be here and to be human. I haven't specifically done an OBE technique for probably a year now, but still meditate and read.
And somehow thats when I must have reached a state where my higher self looked down and saw that I was ready and prepared enough to go to the next level. My mind and spirit are in a great place, I have an amazingly positive view of the future (I plug him, in almost every message I write, but please check out a radio interview of Mellen-Thomas Benedict, he will make you so excited to be alive you won't even care if you ever get out of body!) and even though my life is still far from perfect or where I want it to be, I've reached a place of pure contentment with whatever happens, the world seems perfectly imperfect. And thats when it happened for me, just a couple weeks back, my first fully conscious OBE. And it wasn't even that crazy of an experience as far as APs go, I just floated up out of my body, through my bedroom window and flew around my street for a few minutes, but to me it was exhilarating. It was what I had wanted so badly for so many years, and it was perfect. Its also exactly what my higher self knew I was ready for and what I could handle. As much as I imagine the wildest possibilities of AP, if I'm honest with myself, I really don't think I'm ready to see some of the stuff thats out there. Id like to think I could handle it, and I would love to go straight to the "clear light" of the highest realms and experience that bliss, but I know I have to work my way up to it. Im also amazingly (back) in-love with the Earth now too, and want to be really involved with our home planet right now.
So I guess my advice would be, and what ultimately worked for me, is to just try to get yourself to a place where you are happy just to be alive, notice all the good that is happening in the world, don't focus on the bad, and don't try too hard to force AP. Continue your techniques and practices and reaffirm to yourself every day that when its your time to leave your body and start your astral explorations, that it will happen quite naturally and there is nothing you can do to force this to happen before your higher self deems your time has come.
Thats how it felt to me when I just had my first. It was so natural and although I took the long road, I don't regret any of it and I learned so much and read so many books and had so many other experiences leading up to this point. I'm glad I didn't rush anything and laid a solid foundation to build a lifetime of astral experiences on (I've been getting strong vibes and LDs about every other night since my first OBE and am handling the vibrational state with much more confidence and calmness, and its all happening naturally, I'm just going with the flow, along for the ride...). I have still never had any form of OBE or vibes when I "tried" too, a technique or a phase or whatever, I'm not at that level, all my experiences have come completely naturally. But I've slowly built myself up to the point where I get vibes naturally and LDs and hopefully many more APs to come! But then again it did take me about 4 or 5 years, maybe you are closer than you think and this is your final push towards your first experiences? I don't know but all I can say is you can't force it. Think of a chinese finger trap, the more you pull on it and struggle to get free, the more stuck you become. Just relax, take time off, get in a great mood, have good dreams, refine your techniques, stay positive and know it will happen when its meant to be! (and don't forget to check out Mellen-Thomas! haha)
Relax, it took me frigging forever to get a first projection. Well a couple months, but I was at it 24/7.
My best advice is truly go for an early morning attempt. I know. It is incredibly inconvenient. SOOOO much. but just do it, wake up early. I was stuborn. I truly thought I was better than the masses, and that was my biggest faliure. Wake up early. Go clean, really clean you house. You'll get bored quick. When you get the 'screw it' feeling, lay down on your couch and F12 it up. I'll be surprised if nothing unique doesn't happen.
Cheers,
Contenteo
Quote from: astrophlakes on May 30, 2012, 20:16:29
Man all I know is when its your time, its your time, and you can't force anything. And the more frustrated you get, the harder it will be. Im sure your higher self knows exactly when you are ready for the next level of experience, whatever that may be for you. It took me about 4 years (yes years) after becoming obsessed with the idea of OBE to have my first fully-conscious OBE, just a few weeks ago. And to be perfectly honest I wasn't always 100% focused on my techniques and practices, thats probably why it took me so long. I remember reading my first Bob Monroe book and that was it. I wanted nothing more than to just get to the vibrational state, and I was going crazy with all the amazing possibilities that astral projection presented. So I would try pretty hardcore for a couple weeks at a time, and nothing would happen. I even had the privilege of taking an OBE workshop with none other than the great William Buhlman in Boulder and still not much progress. I was getting much better at meditation though, and having some pretty profound experiences that way.
So this continued for at least a year and a half to two years since I first read Monroe and wanted to OBE, I would just get really excited and practice hard for a couple weeks, and then kinda just go back to normal life and give it a break. I would give myself a "fresh start" at the beginnings of some months and tell myself "this is going to be Out-of-Body August" and "I'm going to practice everyday for the next month." But it seems like life was always interrupting and distracting me. Then about two years in, during a layover time where I wasn't practicing at all, Bam! I got my first vibrational state experience following a lucid dream. (and I now know that this was the higher vibrational state of kundalini vibes, which I learned from this site... almost all my vibes now are the lower frequency type) I was blown away by this. I mean like crying tears of joy for 10 minutes in my bed afterwards. It confirmed all this stuff I had been reading for the past few years (more than that if you count all metaphysical reading in general) and I was astonished at the intensity of the vibes, they truly are unmistakable. They only lasted about a minute and I remember I got my arms loose from my body, but not even a full OBE. But the main point here is that I wasn't even focused on AP or OBE at that time and wasn't even trying. It was au natural...
Then another 2 years go by and Ive reached the vibe state many times now, but it always freaks me out, I panic, and can never separate into an OBE. My practice routine is about the same, every couple months ill get back into it, but at this point I'm not trying to force anything and Im growing a lot spiritually and Im pretty content just knowing that we are all spirits and that we all make it back to the astral at some point or another, no death, all that good stuff. And all this talk about 2012 and a golden age of prosperity and manifestation is enough to keep me content just to be alive in these times, and Im just trying to work on "be here now" and Im seeing that a lot of my "spiritual" practices have major foundations in escapism, like I didn't want to be on Earth anymore, I just wanted to go explore the cosmos and other dimensions. So I'm becoming more aware of this, and Im getting myself connected back into society and humanity and really trying to just be present and content with myself, happy to be here and to be human. I haven't specifically done an OBE technique for probably a year now, but still meditate and read.
And somehow thats when I must have reached a state where my higher self looked down and saw that I was ready and prepared enough to go to the next level. My mind and spirit are in a great place, I have an amazingly positive view of the future (I plug him, in almost every message I write, but please check out a radio interview of Mellen-Thomas Benedict, he will make you so excited to be alive you won't even care if you ever get out of body!) and even though my life is still far from perfect or where I want it to be, I've reached a place of pure contentment with whatever happens, the world seems perfectly imperfect. And thats when it happened for me, just a couple weeks back, my first fully conscious OBE. And it wasn't even that crazy of an experience as far as APs go, I just floated up out of my body, through my bedroom window and flew around my street for a few minutes, but to me it was exhilarating. It was what I had wanted so badly for so many years, and it was perfect. Its also exactly what my higher self knew I was ready for and what I could handle. As much as I imagine the wildest possibilities of AP, if I'm honest with myself, I really don't think I'm ready to see some of the stuff thats out there. Id like to think I could handle it, and I would love to go straight to the "clear light" of the highest realms and experience that bliss, but I know I have to work my way up to it. Im also amazingly (back) in-love with the Earth now too, and want to be really involved with our home planet right now.
So I guess my advice would be, and what ultimately worked for me, is to just try to get yourself to a place where you are happy just to be alive, notice all the good that is happening in the world, don't focus on the bad, and don't try too hard to force AP. Continue your techniques and practices and reaffirm to yourself every day that when its your time to leave your body and start your astral explorations, that it will happen quite naturally and there is nothing you can do to force this to happen before your higher self deems your time has come.
Thats how it felt to me when I just had my first. It was so natural and although I took the long road, I don't regret any of it and I learned so much and read so many books and had so many other experiences leading up to this point. I'm glad I didn't rush anything and laid a solid foundation to build a lifetime of astral experiences on (I've been getting strong vibes and LDs about every other night since my first OBE and am handling the vibrational state with much more confidence and calmness, and its all happening naturally, I'm just going with the flow, along for the ride...). I have still never had any form of OBE or vibes when I "tried" too, a technique or a phase or whatever, I'm not at that level, all my experiences have come completely naturally. But I've slowly built myself up to the point where I get vibes naturally and LDs and hopefully many more APs to come! But then again it did take me about 4 or 5 years, maybe you are closer than you think and this is your final push towards your first experiences? I don't know but all I can say is you can't force it. Think of a chinese finger trap, the more you pull on it and struggle to get free, the more stuck you become. Just relax, take time off, get in a great mood, have good dreams, refine your techniques, stay positive and know it will happen when its meant to be! (and don't forget to check out Mellen-Thomas! haha)
Thanks for this insightful post. I will check out Mellen-Thomas Benedict. I wouldn't say that I'm looking to escape life through trips to the astral. It is more that I've come to love my life so much that I want to see what more is available. I wasted many years caught up in an alcohol addiction but I managed to completely turn things around. It just doesn't make sense to me that the universe and consciousness appeared by accident - this gives me good reason to believe that consciousness is far more than just an emergent property of matter or an epiphenomenon. It seems more likely that our consciousness has purpose and this doesn't end when we die.
Quote from: Contenteo on May 31, 2012, 01:43:15
Relax, it took me frigging forever to get a first projection. Well a couple months, but I was at it 24/7.
My best advice is truly go for an early morning attempt. I know. It is incredibly inconvenient. SOOOO much. but just do it, wake up early. I was stuborn. I truly thought I was better than the masses, and that was my biggest faliure. Wake up early. Go clean, really clean you house. You'll get bored quick. When you get the 'screw it' feeling, lay down on your couch and F12 it up. I'll be surprised if nothing unique doesn't happen.
Cheers,
Contenteo
Good advice - I probably am expecting too much too soon.