Getting feet out

[Dean]

I've been practicing LD for quite a while now and more recently added some energetic body work to my routine.

because the LD is fairly easy and very frequent for me i have recently been attempting to project from LD.

This is not a dream about an OBE:

I begin by waking about 4:30am to use the loo. i thought i'd then use the opportunity to OBE.
I lay back down and allow myself to sleep while keeping my mind awake. I realise i'm getting close to achieving this and allow myself to get further into sleep while staying awake.
My mind then starts feeling/sounding different as i get deeper. i notice the formation of hypnagogic imagery and tell myself just to watch it but soon i notice myself entering the dream imagery it feels like it lasts maybe 4sec and i use the technique of focusing on my third eye while dreaming to begin the OBE.

This brings me back into my body. i'm now once again, body asleep, mind awake. i feel the energetic sensation that my focusing on the third eye causes and find that quickly i feel myself drawn out and up, i feel light and feel myself raising up then... my feet won't let go... i feel that something in or around my feet (maybe it was tension) is acting like an anchor and won't let go....

Through the process i felt no vibrations only sensations as described above and definitely felt like i was floating. i know the rest of my double would have separated if my feet would have come loose.

Q: How close to vibrations and exit am i and does anyone whose feet are usually last out have any techniques for me?

could i just energetically step out without moving my physical body?

I thought today if it happens again i could feel the energy below my feet open and that may get me out... Any ideas are appreciated,

Dean

[Selski]

Hi Dean

Vibrations are not necessary.  Some people (myself included) don't feel them.  

You ask how close you were to exiting.  You HAD exited, except your feet  

One thing I used to do when part of me felt "stuck" is I'd use my astral arms and hands to stroke the area (keeping in mind that this would free me).  It always worked.

You could try your idea of feeling the energy below your feet - that would most likely work as well.  There are no hard and fast rules - try whatever you think of.  You could even imagine that your feet are stuck in wellington boots and you need to pull them out.  

I did have an experience one time where I got out except from the knees down.  It was hilarious.  I was like one of those weebles.  I couldn't get anywhere cause I was stuck, but I was swaying around all over the place.

Weebles wobble but they don't fall down...

:happy5:

Sarah

[Dean]

Thx Sarah,

I did feel like i was out except for my feet as i really felt anchored by my feet and was moving around and it/they wouldn't let go. One thing that surprises me though, was i don't think i experienced any astral sight, i do have memory of looking at my closed eyelids. I expected once i got out that i would automatically have 360degree sight like people talk about when they are out. energetically i felt free and loose so now i'm not sure. i couldn't see my astral hands or anything.

Two questions:
1. Do i need to open my astral eyes to see?
if so how do i do that is it easy as opening my physical eyes while my consciousness is in my astral?

2. i've been trying to OBE at least once a day for the last four days. Today i feel a little energetically tired and i don't want to try although the excitement of possibly getting out makes me want to try.

Does anyone else get this (the tiredness i mean)? why do you think it happens if so?

Is it better to rest? Something suggests yes, rest a few days then try some more  

[Selski]

Hi Dean

One thing that surprises me though, was i don't think i experienced any astral sight, i do have memory of looking at my closed eyelids. I expected once i got out that i would automatically have 360degree sight like people talk about when they are out.

This is very common.  I've had loads of 'blind' projections.  What you will find is that once you are out (including your feet, lol), you will somehow (and you won't know how you are doing it - it will be automatic) know where everything is in a room, even though you can't see it.  Robert Peterson uses the term "Astral Sensing" and describes it well here:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17866

As you have more projections, you may discover that sometimes you can see, and sometimes you can't.  If you are anything like me, it will frustrate the hell out of you!!  

Again, read the above topic for some ideas of how to overcome the lack of sight.

As to the tiredness, this perhaps comes about because you are trying to keep yourself awake, whilst trying to nearly fall asleep and so your body is possibly a little confused as to what you are wanting to do and therefore reacting by being tired.

I would listen to your body and rest for a few days until you feel refreshed and raring to go again.  

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Sarah

[knightlight]

Weebles wobble but they don't fall down...

:locolaugh:

Anyway, this kind of stuff happens.  Its just part of projection, especially the traditional OBE.  I had all kinds of crazy problems like this during my first attempts and eventually it went away.  If it keeps happening over and over you WILL find a way around it!     I would personally imagine a machette in your hand and just chop off your feet.  Nothing holding you down then.  

[Dean]

Thx for the support!

I'll keep trying and reading more, i'll keep you posted and tell you of any near or full projections. especially when i know i'm out. cheers for the link i'll give it a look.

Projections without sight, wow!
isn't it kinda weird?

Dean

[Hans Solo]

Through the process i felt no vibrations only sensations as described above and definitely felt like i was floating. i know the rest of my double would have separated if my feet would have come loose

This is an antiquated belief structure.  You never "get out" of your body. All projections are inwards.  Once you realize this it gets easier, and BTW projecting into the RTZ is boring.  Well, I wont go that far (that was kind of a dumb thing to say).  It just isn't the place I like to go because there isn't that much you can accomplish there in terms of self development.

Read some post by Frank.  Books by Robert Monroe (later in his life), Bruce Moen, Ophiel, Seth (from the seth materials), Ramath, etc.  

All Projections are inward!

Han

[Dean]

Hans Solo wrote:

This is an antiquated belief structure. You never "get out" of your body. All projections are inwards.

Hi Hans,

i've read one Bruce Moen book but not any of the others  (i'm currently looking to find copies of all Robert Monroe's work).

From reading Astral Dynamics years ago it would seem unlikely that all projections are inwards else how would you explain his experiences with seeing his own body and the mind split thing, and experiences others have where they can either see or feel the presence of their 'double' in the room around them?

Is it possible that phasing is internal? I really don't know anything about phasing but do want to learn about it. If anyone could drop any useful links on this page that would be great!

Cheers,

Dean

[Hans Solo]

From reading Astral Dynamics years ago it would seem unlikely that all projections are inwards else how would you explain his experiences with seeing his own body and the mind split thing, and experiences others have where they can either see or feel the presence of their 'double' in the room around them?

That because Robert bruce is a mystic and that is his religion.  Take a look at this website http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23545 .  It is funny because almost ALL these people are having projections, compared to this site, because they just think they are having lucid dreams! (which are the same thing to a degree).  They are more right than people on this site.  The reason people here don't project is because of the fear barrier (all that mystical nonsense about negs) which the Wake induced lucid dreaming (phasing) people don't have.  

Now read this (method 2 & 3) http://www.consciousdreaming.com/lucid-dreaming/astral-projection-and-out-of-body-experiences.htm

Robert Bruce and the Mystical ilk are still clutching on to old paradigms.  I say out with the old in with the truth.

Han

[CFTraveler]

Another way to articulate this idea is: You are a multidimensional entity.  You already exist everywhere.  Your body exists in one point in spacetime but another part of you, your 'astral body, etheric body, whatever you want to call it body (prob. not even right to call it a body) exists in every dimension of reality.  So when you have the experience of leaving your body, what is happenning is that your consciousness has shifted focus from your body to another point in space-time (aka the RTZ).  So you perceive yourself as out-of-body, but only the part of you that your consciousness is focused is not in your body.  (Because in reality only one part of you is in your body.  The rest is already out.)  So instead of saying that you got OB, your consciousness changed focus to OB.
Frankly, IMO this approach is more mystical than the old-fashioned one; the old fashioned one should be called esoteric instead of mystical.

[Hans Solo]

Another way to articulate this idea is: You are a multidimensional entity. You already exist everywhere. Your body exists in one point in spacetime but another part of you, your 'astral body, etheric body, whatever you want to call it body (prob. not even right to call it a body) exists in every dimension of reality. So when you have the experience of leaving your body, what is happenning is that your consciousness has shifted focus from your body to another point in space-time (aka the RTZ). So you perceive yourself as out-of-body, but only the part of you that your consciousness is focused is not in your body. (Because in reality only one part of you is in your body. The rest is already out.) So instead of saying that you got OB, your consciousness changed focus to OB.
Frankly, IMO this approach is more mystical than the old-fashioned one; the old fashioned one should be called esoteric instead of mystical.

BINGO!!!!!!!   Thank god someone more articulate than me could describe this.  Great job CFTraveler.  

Recently, I have not thought about Astral traveling and instead have only been reading stuff on lucid dreams and WILDS.  I have got to say my success rate has gone up 2000%.  I think it is easier for the subconscious to handle or something, this is why I think the lucid dreams boards are projecting into Focus2 WAY more than this board on astral travel.  Too much esoteric crud.

Han

[Leilah]

"Frankly, IMO this approach is more mystical than the old-fashioned one; the old fashioned one should be called esoteric instead of mystical."

How so?

[Dean]

Hans wrote:

Recently, I have not thought about Astral traveling and instead have only been reading stuff on lucid dreams and WILDS.  I have got to say my success rate has gone up 2000%.  

Hans, do you mean your ability to OBE has gone up 2000% or your LDreaming?

I understand the principle behind what CFTraveler and yourself are getting to... that you exist everywhere and it is where to choose to focus your attention etc.... question is do you experience OBE's the same as LD's (PS. i have read Bird's stuff) and i don't mean the experience of how they feel. i mean the way you reach them and the truth of them, the fact that you can KNOW 100% that they are not a dream (I know the question could be what is a dream blah, blah) and not totally all your imagination. that there is a creative force that is able to hold the larger part of the picture together so you can play in the space that this creative force has developed.

Truly i want to know why the creator has this place the way it is. why is it not different than it is? How many different universes could there be? how may other ways could you create a universe?

Think about this: what would happen if the electron was a fraction lighter, or the proton a fraction heavier? Is the weight of the electron in this universe the only weight that works? or if it was different what would be different and why...

I'm one of those people who want to know absolutely why am i here, how does it all work. this system of nature that i see before me dazzles me... it cannot be by chance... i believe there is a creative genius behind the whole set up... and i want to understand how it has done what it has done... obviously that gives me a need to understand the OBE experience and understand what dreams are and why we have them

did you read this post: Faraway can be so close...
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17261&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

I want to verify the astral experience for myself. something tangible as this would be wonderful  The above projection seems magical and could have acted through the methods that you and CFTraveler describe.

Reality and verification of the OBE (whatever it is and whatever form it comes in), and the KNOWledge that my consciousness can absolutely exist 100% without being enmeshed in this body is part of what i am looking for by learning AP,

Cheers for listening,
Dean

[CFTraveler]

Dean Wrote:

Truly i want to know why the creator has this place the way it is. why is it not different than it is? How many different universes could there be? how may other ways could you create a universe?

Think about this: what would happen if the electron was a fraction lighter, or the proton a fraction heavier? Is the weight of the electron in this universe the only weight that works? or if it was different what would be different and why...

I'm one of those people who want to know absolutely why am i here, how does it all work. this system of nature that i see before me dazzles me... it cannot be by chance... i believe there is a creative genius behind the whole set up... and i want to understand how it has done what it has done... obviously that gives me a need to understand the OBE experience and understand what dreams are and why we have them

That's why science and religions were invented, the pity is that they don't see each other as partners (another thread here.)
As to proof, well, doing it is proving it to yourself.  All types of projections are verifiable to yourself, except perhaps projections into your own subconscious, yet they are as important as the external ones.
OB experiences and phasing feel different, (I've only phased once and amazingly it was verified, but that's another story.)  Some of my OB's were verifiable because they involved other people.  So really, whatever you experience is what you have to look at analytically, if that's what moves you.

[CFTraveler]

"Frankly, IMO this approach is more mystical than the old-fashioned one; the old fashioned one should be called esoteric instead of mystical."
How so?

Dictionary.com definition of Mysticism:Immediate consciousness of the transcendent or ultimate reality or God.
The experience of such communion as described by mystics.
A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience.
As you can see this refers to direct communion with transcendence, completely subjective, without needing anything outside of self.  To me phasing is the perfect act of doing this. You go inward to gain the experience.
esoteric- means foreign, outside of.  In other words, going out of yourself to achieve the experience or knowledge.
OK?

[Dean]

CFTraveler,

I'd like to hear about your verifiable phasing experience some time,

Dean

[catmeow]

Truly i want to know why the creator has this place the way it is. why is it not different than it is? How many different universes could there be? how may other ways could you create a universe?

Think about this: what would happen if the electron was a fraction lighter, or the proton a fraction heavier? Is the weight of the electron in this universe the only weight that works? or if it was different what would be different and why...

Current cosmological theory has our universe spontaneously self-creating from effectively nothingness (the big bang).  All of the laws of physics for our universe and all matter and energy were created in that instant.  If this can happen once, so the theory goes, it can happen many times.  In fact logically there should be an infinite number of such spontaneous creation events - there is nothing to stop them from happening!

So there must be an infinite number of universes, each occupying its own space/time.  In addition, so the theory goes, every thing, and every person and every event that ever happend in this universe has, is or will happen in another universe.  There are an infinite number of copies of YOU, each one living a slightly different life.  Eg Elvis playing to the Sydney Opera House.

Now scientifically, this is a kind of logical conclusion of the theory of creation, assuming that creation is a spontaneous random event and there was no Creator.  On the other hand if there is a Creator responsible for a single creation event, then there need not be an infinite number of universes!

Just my 10 cents worth...

[CFTraveler]

CFTraveler,

I'd like to hear about your verifiable phasing experience some time,

Dean

I went to pick my son up an hour early at school, so I decided to sit in the car line and do a little reading and maybe some energy work.  Soon I got sleepy (from reading) and I decided to close my eyes and meditate instead.  I closed my eyes and started listening to a car radio relatively far away in the car line.  As I listened, I started to get hypnagogics.  After a while, I saw my son's classroom.  When I saw him I got excited and realized I was going to 'lose it' so I started deep breathing and calming myself down.  Suddenly I was 'sucked in' to where he was, and all of a sudden, a classmate of his jumped in view and hugged him and started to try to kiss him.  This startled me and I was 'back in the car.'  I looked at the clock in my cell phone and saw it was 1:45.  I composed myself, waited until the bell rang, picked him up, and as casually as I could, I asked him if something different happened to him. (He's 8; how do you ask something like that-) and the startling answer was, he told me that a classmate was messing around attacking all the boys and trying to kiss them, and he "ran away" from her.  I was startled at the accuracy of my 'vision.'  Now:
I wasn't trying to do any RV or anything of the sort, and wasn't concentrating on him particularly, except for the fact that was there for him, and the usual motherly focus.  However, the only different thing that day was that someone far had the car stereo on, and instead of being annoyed by it (since I was trying to meditate), I decided to listen along and use it to relax.  Perhaps my focus changed when I did it. (Who knows, really.)  Like I said before, this was the only time I 'phased' (maybe it was a RV, it was very short lived, but I did 'fall in', so to speak) and to me it was verified, I'm sure not very scientific, but it's enough for me.

[Leilah]

"Frankly, IMO this approach is more mystical than the old-fashioned one; the old fashioned one should be called esoteric instead of mystical."
How so?

Dictionary.com definition of Mysticism:Immediate consciousness of the transcendent or ultimate reality or God.
The experience of such communion as described by mystics.
A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience.
As you can see this refers to direct communion with transcendence, completely subjective, without needing anything outside of self.  To me phasing is the perfect act of doing this. You go inward to gain the experience.
esoteric- means foreign, outside of.  In other words, going out of yourself to achieve the experience or knowledge.
OK?

Thanks for the clarification.

[Dean]

Current cosmological theory has our universe spontaneously self-creating from effectively nothingness (the big bang).  All of the laws of physics for our universe and all matter and energy were created in that instant.  If this can happen once, so the theory goes, it can happen many times.  In fact logically there should be an infinite number of such spontaneous creation events - there is nothing to stop them from happening!

So there must be an infinite number of universes, each occupying its own space/time.  In addition, so the theory goes, every thing, and every person and every event that ever happend in this universe has, is or will happen in another universe.  There are an infinite number of copies of YOU, each one living a slightly different life.  Eg Elvis playing to the Sydney Opera House.

Now scientifically, this is a kind of logical conclusion of the theory of creation, assuming that creation is a spontaneous random event and there was no Creator.  On the other hand if there is a Creator responsible for a single creation event, then there need not be an infinite number of universes!

Just my 10 cents worth...

Thanks for your view! At present i believe in big bang theory and in one Creator. I believe that this universe we know now will eventually end, and that this universe is not the first or last this creator will design. Before (or maybe the moment that) this universe ends the creator will explode another big bang thereby creating another universe so it keeps its (effectively the universe's [one and the same]), memories, knowledge, experiences, etc so that it can continue it's, (and assist us in our) conscious learning so that it doesn't get reduced to nothing and need to start from scratch again. In a way information transfer from this universe to the next so that it can keep evolving and learning.

Anyone wanting to explore this kind of theory further check out:
http://thefreedomforum.com

and to me it was verified, I'm sure not very scientific, but it's enough for me.

thank you CFTraveler for sharing your experience, I'd call that good verification myself. thankfully your child was open enough to tell you and verify the experience for you, some children could be quite shy at that age,

Thanks all for this thread thus far i've really enjoyed it,

Cheers,
Love to you all,
Dean

[Dean]

all the required information to build a universe and carry forward the knowledge from previous universes is encoded within the building blocks of the universe.

ie. in this one the electrons

I'll start a new post soon on this if anyone is interested in more. i'll post where it will be in the future inside this thread

[Sepultura123]

Your story CFTraveler is very unique.

Thats a good proof of OBE