Science and OBE

[Comokisadore]

I sometimes enter the real time zone spontaneously while still in my physical body, i know its the RTZ because everything around me becomes crisp clear, and a heavenly bliss feeling comes down on me, just like when I enter the RTZ while attempting to project.

I wouldn't worry too much about linking science with religion, God did not put man on earth for that, Earth is testing grounds for Man.

I beleive Man's technological advancement has a limit, and once the limit has been reached, the physical universe will be blown away, think about it, the only way man will become more advanced is by looking past the physical universe and tapping into the wonders beyond. So much intelligence and Wisdom beyond.

-Como

[Huwie]

That stuff about Mars not being red is bollocks, I've looked directly at  it myself through a telescope.  It is most definitely red.

[Louis]

(And it was SpiderMan' uncle who said that [])

But I must agree that scientists will not bother with subjects that cannot be explained. Even if some guy went to sleep and guessed what was on a blackboard in a locked room, they will say it is luck, or they won't say a thing and move on to something else.
It is sad that some people are not after the truth, but want only others to beleive in the same thing that they beleive in.

[Neo Schiavo]

Quote by Huwie: "That stuff about Mars not being red is bollocks, I've looked directly at it myself through a telescope. It is most definitely red."

I couldn't agree with you more, it does appear to be a rusty red-brown color when viewed from Earth (or any point outside the planet for that matter).  But let me remind you, the Hubble telescope is many times more powerfull than an average home-user's telescope is, and can pick up much finer details.  If you'd like, I can post a few Hubble photographs showing the blue Martian atmosphere.  But regardless, I stand by my beliefs, and unless you can project there and tell me otherwise, I will use the few unedited NASA photographs and Hubble images as my proof.

[Huwie]

Well for one thing, I wouldn't rely on anybody's observations from the RTZ because of susceptibility to reality fluctuations and unconscious altering due to expectations etc.

As for telescopic observations, I have seen hundred of pictures of Mars from not just NASA, but also public and private observatories around the world.  There's also the factor of lens filtration and other anomalies which may make certain small parts of Mars to appear blue or any other colour.  Besides, why would NASA want to have people believe it's red when it isn't?

I'm as open-minded as the next person, but I'd need a lot more convincing to even begin to believe Mars is anything other than predominantly red.

[Meedan]

I have a strong view that there once was life on mars (full human-like life), but obviously mars has become uninhabitable. In my opinion due to its nuclear core naturally cooling down (the opposite of what's happening on this planet).

However, I don't see how Mars can appear any colour but red. No doubt mars - like other planets - would have a blue sky, if it weren't for the sandstorms. I was under the impression that the constant sandstorms and the colour of the sandy surface give Mars the colour we see.

[Neo Schiavo]

quote:Originally posted by Huwie

Well for one thing, I wouldn't rely on anybody's observations from the RTZ because of susceptibility to reality fluctuations and unconscious altering due to expectations etc.

As for telescopic observations, I have seen hundred of pictures of Mars from not just NASA, but also public and private observatories around the world.  There's also the factor of lens filtration and other anomalies which may make certain small parts of Mars to appear blue or any other colour.  Besides, why would NASA want to have people believe it's red when it isn't?

I'm as open-minded as the next person, but I'd need a lot more convincing to even begin to believe Mars is anything other than predominantly red.

Here is an image I found in one of my old online photo alblums:



Sorry if it's a little grainy, I will find a better picture later.  But as far as why NASA would cover it up is really quite simple.  They wanted to suppress any possiblity of panic by giving the planet a desolate appearance.  Imagine for a minute, the shock it would cause if the "original" photos showing an "Earthly" Mars were released.  If a fake radio station broadcast on the invasion of the Martians (this happened in the 50's I believe) can cause a mass panic, imagine what color photographs showing the possibility of life could cause.  NASA, knowing the consequenses, asked JPL to increase the red component in each of the photographs, falsifying Mars as a barren wasteland.

That is my short response.  If you would like a more in-depth explanation, I will be happy to oblige.

[Neo Schiavo]

I found this site in my favorites folder and I think all those in doubt of the Mars "situation" should head on over to this address:

http://www.chez.com/lesovnis/htm/mars.htm

In the section titled "NASA PICTURES FROM MARS," click on the first link.  This breaks down all the facts in a fairly easy-to-understand manor, regarding the NASA/Mars conspiracy.  When your finished reading what this particular section has to offer, backtrack and click on the second link.  This second page is the one you should pay more attention to, Huwie, as one of the topics explains exactly why Mars appears red when viewed from an amateur telescope.  When you are finished with the two articles, feel free to examine the rest of the site if you wish.

This is as best as I can do for now, I'm afraid.  I tried posting some additional pictures, but for some reason the 'Insert Image' code is not working.  I will try later, but in the mean time, let's just get back on subject with the topic of this thread regarding science and OBEs.

Now, I've had this burning question for a while now and feel this may be the right time to ask it:  does anyone know where I may procure a decent diagram on the anatomy of the human etheric body?  In other words, just like there are anatomical diagrams of the human physical body (showing the various muscle and skeletal systems, etc.), I was wondering if there is one on the etheric body.  After reading the description of it in Robert Bruces's "Astral Dynamics," I have been wondering what it would look like visually.

[Huwie]

OK, I just finished reading the section about the colours of Mars, including the letters that the author received and his replies to them.

The author concedes that there is little to no proof of any kind of conspiracy at all.  He also agrees that Mars looks red (or rather orange) except when viewed from within the Martian atmosphere.  This is why I will continue to agree with the man in the street that Mars is indeed the 'red planet'. []

[Renaisance]

hey neo schiavo,

 A couple things: for one, what could possibly be gained by a conspiracy to tell people that mars is another color than what it is? There is no possible benifit at least in my mind that could result from such a scam. There is alway the possiblity that the whole of the photographs in all there totality not just their color were fake and that we have never in fact even set foot on mars but then thats a whole other can of worms isn't it?

 Second: I agree with you in many regards. Particularly that in my conclusions everything in existance is simply energy in one shape form or frequency. I also agree with the fact that that is truly all we need to explore (at a personal level). However there is always the problem of proof. While I myself am a firm believer of OBE it is still not a thing that can be simply proven (such as you said about the caveman and the stick). Of course there are always the little tests such as taping a playing card to a window but then whos to say that that isn't merely telepathy or some sort of esp? how can we say CONCLUSIVELY that we are really traveling out of our bodies? Also everyones results in what they see during OBE is subject to personal mind sets and therefor are biased. So starting out with a biased medium how can you truly say that is all we need for scientific investigation?

Just a couple thoughts
Renaisance

[Sam]

Until you can give a scientist an instrument that can measure the effect or existance of another plane, they'll pass it off as unproven codswallop.  You could try reasoning that the brain is the perfect instrument for experiencing it, and a minority might go so far as to attempt and possibly achieve an obe, but because of the large amount of evidence that supports delusional states of mind, and hallucinations, they seem to prefer to think of it as an interesting delusion.

Personally, I've seen enough as proof to me that all of the above exists, for me at least.

Don't knock science though.  The scientific method of hypothysis, evidence gathering and theory works quite well.  Someone once hypothesised the existence of other planes of existence, many people over thousands of years have experienced what they would call evidence, and we are still trying to agree on a theory that explains what it is to this day.  

The problem most physical scientists have with astral planes is that they sound too religousy and science came along with evidence and disproved many religious teachings.  To this day they are biased against religion which is understandable considering the limitations religious society used to have a few hundred years ago.  

Although it seems science has a problem seeing the merits of a lot of our spiritually enlightened philosophys.  They try to say to us "prove it".  Why should we prove anything to anyone else?  Why don't they disprove it?  It's impossible (it actually is) to disprove something.  You can prove that something is different to what it was previously thought to be, but you.  How can you get evidence for something that doesn't exist?

[Neo Schiavo]

quote:Originally posted by Renaisance

hey neo schiavo,

 A couple things: for one, what could possibly be gained by a conspiracy to tell people that mars is another color than what it is? There is no possible benifit at least in my mind that could result from such a scam. There is alway the possiblity that the whole of the photographs in all there totality not just their color were fake and that we have never in fact even set foot on mars but then thats a whole other can of worms isn't it?

I believe I already explained that:

quote:Originally posted by Neo Schiavo

Sorry if it's a little grainy, I will find a better picture later. But as far as why NASA would cover it up is really quite simple. They wanted to suppress any possiblity of panic by giving the planet a desolate appearance. Imagine for a minute, the shock it would cause if the "original" photos showing an "Earthly" Mars were released. If a fake radio station broadcast on the invasion of the Martians (this happened in the 50's I believe) can cause a mass panic, imagine what color photographs showing the possibility of life could cause. NASA, knowing the consequenses, asked JPL to increase the red component in each of the photographs, falsifying Mars as a barren wasteland.

[Neo Schiavo]

Since the dawn of science, any form of supernatural "evidence" has been thrown out the window; discarded like it were meaningless.  The whole scientific community, although dedicates a study to it, denies the event of out-of-body experience as being "physically" possible.  Yet, we seem to forget the fact that the Physical Plane is made up of seven subplanes, and modern science has only seemed able to test the first four (solids, liquids, gases, and plasmas).  Therefore, the real-time zone really isn't a buffer zone overlaying the Physical Plane, but rather, the remaining three subplanes of it.  When we heighten our consciousness (otherwise known as an out-of-body experience) we are really tuning into the additional subplanes that cannot be observed otherwise.  Just like a virus cannot perceive what a gas is, as it is too expanded on the molecular level to be declared a tangible force.  Whilst on the subject, viruses don't actually utilize gases anyways, and they are usually inert (and in a way, dead) unless when they're in contact with a biotic solid and/or liquid compound.

Back on topic, what I am really suggesting right now is that the real-time zone is just as scientifically physical as the rest of our world is, just existing at higher vibrations.  If this is true, then the real-time zone can be tested just as equally.  For example, by adding an acidic solution to a basic solution, the H+ and OH+ ions even out and form a salt.  If the real-time zone is still physical, then a similar experiment can be conducted using higher subplane mediums.  But then again, that would mean developing special tools for use in the higher subplanes, and that is no easy task.  It would take many millennia of evolution in technology to do so, thus, it will not happen anytime soon.  This can be likened to caveman trying to split atoms with only a rock and a stick.  This is why I believe technology is too overrated.  Just take a look at astronomy for example.  For decades now, we have been exploring the heavens, and despite our baby-steps, we have uncovered a somewhat generous amount of knowledge about the universe.  Yet, we are still limited by our technology, and by the fact that we are still only human, at least in a scientist's perspective.

I, however, do not believe we are limited by being human.  In fact, I believe it is again technology that hinders our quest for understanding of our reality.  No matter how strong or fast we can build a spaceship, in the end, it will never go as fast or as far as we'll need it.  After all, the human vehicle (body) wields a greater technology, a greater machine than can be built with our hands.  It is a "spaceship" more advanced than any conceivable by physical means--the astral body.

With out-of-body experiences, we are not limited by the confines of the lower subplanes (I am referring to the Physical Plane still), and can thus travel across the physical universe with ease.  Want to know if there really was water on Mars at one time?  Why not project there and examine the rocks in person (after all, with astral sight, you can see their inner texture).  Or maybe you're itching to know if Europa really hides a sub-ocean.  You can take a trip there in a matter of seconds and see for yourself.

Now how does science tie in with this?  Well, in the future, man should be able to develop tools for use in the real-time zone.  Scientists will be able to scientifically test compositions of our neighboring and distant planets for existence of life.  They'll be able to find out exactly how our sun really works, and how it transfers energy above the known subplanes.  Perhaps they could even find potentially dangerous space objects on a collision course with Earth, thousands of years in advance.  Even today, although lacking of the obvious, we can still explore the depths of our universe, and make observations.  There is a debate in the scientific community right now as to whether Mars is really the "red planet" or not.  There is a conspiracy floating around that NASA has been altering the Martian photographs for the last two decades, portraying the planet as having a red sky and ground.  But if you really take a good look at those photographs, you can clearly tell they're fake; there is no distinct tone between the ground and the sky.  You see, I believe Mars actually has a blue sky and a butterscotch-colored surface, almost like the Mojave Desert without the vegetation.

Now, I'm not just making this up here, there is a plethora of evidence out there to support my theory.  Just type in "mars" in the 'Images' section of Google and you'll get at least three to four pictures of this "blue Mars" on the very first page.  Not to mention there are numerous reports about this from the Hubble team, emphasizing that "a blue Martian atmosphere clearly outlines the planet."  But all this can be settled quite easily.  Someone who is experienced at 'projecting' and knows the location of Mars in our sky at all times, can project there and see for himself who is lieing.  You see, if you want to get anything done right, you've got to do it yourself.  You can't rely on others (such as NASA) to do it for you, as you will only get excrement in return.  It's this neglect for responsibility that limits us, not fact that we are only human.

Speaking of which, someone once said, "With great power comes great responsibility," (actually, it was SpiderMan's father) and I believe we humans are advanced enough to be responsible for our own fate.  Despite the fact that God "urges us not to meddle with things beyond our understanding," out-of-body experiences are a natural part of life.  They're also natural in regard to exploration.  Why do we rely on man-made technology to take its place?  And then we wonder why people have died in airplanes, in trains, cars, and boats.  All this emphasize on a technologically ideal society has done nothing more than beget our downfall.  Science is the manifestation of our genius through our minds, not our hands.  If we can learn to accept this, we can establish that link between science and the supernatural. It's possibly the only way to discover the meaning of life...