I've got a question

[Eldarion]

If a person is blind, from the day it was born and is able  to project what happens? Can they see all the things that people with normal sight can see while projecting? If there is anybody that is unfortunately blind please share your experience on this topic.
If they can see, isn't that a god send gift for them? I'm sorry if a subject like this was posted already

thank you

[ethereallifesphere]

From what I've read from Astral Dynamics a person who is blind from birth does not "see" while projecting. Instead they have a heightened sense of touch.

[Ivanda]

Hmmm.... I have read that people who are blind and had NDE could see as clearly as all other ppl. OBE is basicly part of NDE...

[Tom]

The difference is that people who have never seen in their life have a more tactile awareness of the out of body state, while people who have had sight and lost it will be able to see while out of body. Robert Bruce said so. He has been given descriptions of out of body experiences both from people who were born without sight and those who used to have it. He developed NEW based on having been approached by someone who had been born blind who was annoyed by all of the techniques requiring visualization. Robert Bruce concluded that the tactile awareness would be a useful device and found that it was more powerful than visual visualization, even when visual visualization is also an option. In some ways, the people Robert Bruce heard from who had been born blind were more aware of their astral environment than people who could see it. It is like being in direct physical contact with everything in the immediate environment at the same time.

[Ivanda]

But still I don`t get it (sorry for acting dumb   ). If one is out of body, one does not require physical sight, right? So why can they not see? Just trying to understand...

[Tom]

Pretend you have never seen and that you have no idea what it is like to see. Pretend that the centers in your brain which you are using for visual perception never developed. Let's say for argument that you read about light, colors, and seeing and then you managed to go out of body and see. When you return to your body and your memories are downloaded to your physical brain, how is it going to suddenly process the visual aspects of your experience?

[Ivanda]

OK, that makes sense, but it still does not explain the numerous NDE accounts where blind people have NDE, can see, but upon return to their body are blind just like before. Why such difference btw OBE and NDE??

Some info here:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence03.html

[Tom]

Not everyone who can see in their body can see when they leave it at first. It depends on their expectations going into the experience. The NDE does not leave a lot of room for going into the experience having expectations.

[Ivanda]

Not everyone who can see in their body can see when they leave it at first

Thanks, Tom, for your replies. I have the same experience with OBE. Just cannot see, but there is plenty of room for exploration and growth.

[Timothy Yuen]

If you do take Robert Bruce's approach to OBE and NDE, here is a possible explanation of what happens in the case of a blind person (one that would be interesting to test out).

The typical OBE involves the transfer of dominant consciousness to the etheric body and then to projected double/real-time body (and thereafter other subtle bodies in the astral).  I agree with Tom that a blind person may actually see during a projection experience, but when that information comes back to the physical brain as the dominant consciousness, it has no way (or at least no habit) of interpreting that visual information.

During a NDE, the etheric/bioenergetic body (which remains "glued" to the physical body during its life including during projections), merges or transfers its energy to the projected double/real-time body, which is why NDEs are so vivid--they basically have the same amount and type of energy as waking life sans a physical body.  Now when a person comes back from an NDE and their etheric body rejoins the physical, maybe that person would remember and be able to process the visual information because of the intimate relationship of the etheric to the physical body--that is, the etheric body can much more easily transfer it's information to the physical brain and cause it to remember its experience when recalled.  The etheric is only "one step away" from the physical as opposed to two or more steps from the projected double/astral body.  Or, perhaps, the etheric body is the vessel of memory anyway and when a person remembers, it stimulates the etheric body to produce the memory.  A very interesting question that will receive some serious study one day.

[sunneysoul71]

Hi!

One of the most perplexing accounts of Near Death Experiences (NDE) in the United States is by a blind woman who got into a car accident, was seriously hurt and clinically dead for several minutes.

While she was clinically dead she saw(!) the scene of the accident and was able to report it later in striking detail. The woman had never been able to see before because she was born with no optical nerves, and said that she was extremely frightened at first by the new sensations coming to her.

The reason I am bringing this up here is that it illustrates beyond doubt (to me anyway) that we can conceive of anything in any way while out of body. The only restrictions are those caused by our own beliefs.

Regards

Michael

[Ivanda]

Yes probably, there is too much of mind control in OBE, but during NDE, when the brain is practically dead, people are free from it. Sometimes I wish I had an NDE and came back transformed, rid of all fears and anxiety    But I guess most of us have to learn it the hard way!