I was wondering...

[Epsilon]

Hi there Pandemonium.

Here in the USA I think it's basically a joke to most people.  Not evil like you describe, but people tend to think you're a little crazy if you openly admit to stuff like this.  Which is so unfortuante, because I feel totally alone in this respect of my life.  There is absolutely no one I can talk about this with, not even my girlfriend.
I don't think there is really any country in the world yet that is open to stuff like this.  China and other asian countries might be the country most open to energy development since they have practicing martial arts for thousands of years, alot of which incorporate energy flow.  But I will agree with you that your country seems to take these subjects pretty hard.  Have you found any communities or groups of people in your country that have the same ideas/beliefs as you in this subject?

[Pandemonium]

Hello Epsilon.

No, there are no groups here that could share my opinions/beliefs. I can't comment this subject with my friends, because, as you said, they could think I'm weird. I find OBEs totally natural, but others don't. I agree with you that there are probably no countries that have accepted OBE as a natural thing, except perhaps more spiritual communities in Tibet or similar asian lands. I thought that the subject of OBE is more widely spread in the western lands, but... I quess that the human kind is not fully ready to accept OBEs as a natural gift, granted to all, no mather what differences could exist between individuals. Thanks for replying my post, by the way. []

[jilola]

Here are the results of the Finnish jury (and someone please give us some points, out of pity if not for anything else [])

It very much depeends who you ask. The response varies between "Thou shalt burn in..." to "Here's what happened to me last night".
I don't think there's a typical reply unless slightly amused indifference counts.

2cents & L&L
jouni

[SiN]

Hey there, Pandemonium.

I am so sorry that you can't share your experiences with people you know and love. That is terribly sad, I think, because we all need to express ourselves and to not be able to... to just bottle or keep to yourself something that truly inspires you isn't right.

I think, like what Epsilon said, a lot of people in Canada too think AP (and the like) is a joke. My parents (and relatives) constantly tell me that it's not right and that God doesn't like it, etc. When I told my parents about my Sleep Paralysis (when I started getting them) and then my doctor (about two of my spontaneous OBEs), they sent me to a bloody psychiatrist for a while before the doc. figured there was nothing wrong with me!

I only have a few friends who can partly relate, and even to some who don't know about it, they like it when I tell them about my experiences. My best friend thinks all this stuff is too weird for her, but she doesn't mind it if I tell her.

Maybe, instead of just coming out and telling your friends (or anyone you know) about your experiences, ask them what they think about stuff like that first. And if they look at you strangely, don't bother trying to tell them. Keep looking, there's bound to be SOMEBODY!

[sublime]

Hrm good subject... I choose to tell only people that i feel will be accepting of it. Sometimes, it's hard to tell if they're going to think you're weird or not. It usually starts with a conversation about dreams and weird things that have happened when they were sleeping. I'll ask a few questions like "have you ever been paralyzed in your sleep?" "do you have weird feelings of vibrating ever while sleeping or waking up?" they usually look at me like ehhh what are you talking about. When I first found out the truth about the spontaneous feelings that i was having, i tried talking to everyone about it, it was then that i realized that not everyone believes that this is even humanly possible. it's not that they think it's wrong, they just simply think that it doesnt happen and it's all a figment of your imagination. when i tell the story about seeing my dad doing something and then later asking him if he was doing that and he was then they get a little confused. Now that i know more about the subject, i'm able to tell who would really care to hear about it and who would be fascinated with it. I (like Epsilon) cant even talk to my girlfriend about it because she gets "weirded" out by it. however i do have a very good friend that cares to learn more about and also two friends that have been having OBE's for years.


Another thing i think is funny is that the people who are completely against these things say that (like Pandemonium said) "all new things are works of satan" funny that OBE's trace far back into our history and shouldnt even be considered "NEW AGE" i guess some of the practices that we use could be considered new age but these ideas stem far back into our history, further than most christian beliefs therefore how are they "new". hrm just my thoughts.

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone!

quote:Originally posted by sublime
i guess some of the practices that we use could be considered new age but these ideas stem far back into our history, further than most christian beliefs therefore how are they "new". hrm just my thoughts.

Astral projection goes back to the beginnings of mankind. The cave paintings of the stone age are by shaman depicting their Astral experiences, and teaching the lessons to the tribe thereof.

Christianity taught reincarnation until about 350AD, at which point it occured to the church leaders that they could control their congregations much more effectively, an indeed whole countries, if they created a "hell" and "satan" instead, thereby frightening everyone into attending church as "God fearing" people. Of course in the process they gave lead people away from Spiritual realities and into the creed and dogma they preach today contrary to Univeral laws.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Pandemonium]

Of course that AP/OBE goes to the roots of the mankind, since it is a natural abillity. Church probably knew about it all along. I think they labeled everything related to energy work (including OBE)  as evil out of fear of losing believers. I think that people in my country are still shaken by the war we suffered 10 years ago (when we seperated from Yugoslavia), and the economical situation of most people is very bad, so they aren't very open to new things. This makes their will very weak and so they turn to the only things they know. They seek God in the only known aspect, and don't have strenght to search for something more. Too bad...

[Leviiathan]

Pandemonium, don't even get me started on how shakey the fundamentals of Western faith is :lol

First of all, New Age isn't a religion. It is a culture. That said, the term you should apply to yourself, like me, is spiritual philosopher, spiritual anarchist (my personal favourate), or spiritual agnosticist. The 2 former names may openly apply better to you than the 3rd latter one.

Yes. One cannot easily talk about things like Astral Projection or general "New-Age" concepts because of the stigma (and association with un-related ideas), and because people are aquainted with has only been conventional.

But also understand that just because one person says something doesn't mean it's wrong. In the Middle-East, followers of Islam believe that anyone that isn't a muslim is an infedel who deserves to be put to death. The New Age culture has its fallacies, but so does every other single belief system (in this case, New Age is a culture) out there.

[Leviiathan]

I went to the Vatican website, searched up New Age and read through the report (skimmed, partially read it). Ultimately, I concluded that it was predictable, and biased for the most part.

What I would come to call New Age, that being an evolved culture, has always existed. Really, all it is is this: people with liberal belief systems that are shared and inter-connected. The report fails to account for the reality of AP or Astral Projection or even the Bio-Etheric energy system. It scoffs at all of these things, while claiming its own superiority (while hypocritically acknoledging that people within their ranks are welcome to mingle in other belief systems).

I do not like Roman Catholism. It is an archaic, flawed, deeply-undermined form of religious fascism in which individuals live to serve rather God (or rather, become accustomed to serving God) so that they may die and serve an endless, uneventful existence in Heaven.

My spiritualism coincides with aspects of New Age, but is not New Age at all. I believe it would be fair to say that this generalization does not apply to even half of us. I believe that it is important to explore the microcosm, because that is the quintessence of both spiritual, physiological, and mental development. These three things account for our existence, so why would it be ill-advised to mature these three areas? Spiritual introvertism isn't really spiritual at all. Rather, it allows one to develop a relationship with themselves (realize who they are), while enabling them to discover a relationship with God (which I can place under conventional, fundamentalist standars ~ Faith in the Heart) and develop an understanding of where they fit in the Macrocosm.

Spirituality is about personal development. It is not about becoming God. I do not believe that there is anything about the New Age culture that is predominantly about becoming God. That is an ignorant, terrible assumption.

[Pandemonium]

Leviathan, I think you are right. The part where the Vatican document says that one seeks how to become a god in New age is really disgusting. They haven't tried to view anything they cursed in the text from a different point of view, or to see New age as a culture. I, personally, never thought of New age as a religion, but it still creates greater links with the higher force, offers answers to the many questions that exist for centuries. I don't want to be misunderstood.

[LJ57]

I live in Tennessee, probably one of the most backward regions in the US. This is the Bible Belt where the majority of people are southern Baptists or some other fundamentalist Christian denomination. Astral projection and similar things would be considered, by those who even know what it is, to be evil and/or a joke. However, here in my small town we actually got a new age store recently that primarily sells Wiccan items so there's definitely some interest. Yoga, Reiki,Accupuncture, and Hypnotherapy are all services that are available here as well. In general though these kinds of things are frowned upon by the majority. Fortunately I have a few friends who don't consider me a weirdo and are actually somewhat interested in these kinds of things. No matter where you live, no matter how backwards and unprogressive it may be(such as where I live) I think you'll find that there are almost always people who are intrested in these things.

Also, Pandemonium, here's some links I found where you might find some contacts in your country of people of like mind.

http://mysticplanet.com/CROATIA.HTM
http://www.witchvox.com/wotw/wwp_a/other_countries_a.html

[Pandemonium]

Thanks, LJ57. I will try those links now.

[Pandemonium]

Hello.

Well, my torment has finally ended. I had to tell someone about my experiences, so I decided to tell everything to my mother. I think I talked about this subject with her for 2 hours. She was just listening to me, suprisingly she didn't interupt me. I explained everything. From the vibrations to the astral entities. When I finished we just sat there in silence for about 5 minutes. Then she said, I quote: "I believe in your judgment, if you say it is natural, then I believe you." I was petrified. I knew she was not a catholic fanatic, and that she was an open person, but I didn't believe she was that open! Altough she was a bit skeptical, after reading Buhlman's "Adventures out of body", her doubts were dispelled. She actually got interested in the subject. Now I realize that I was such a fool. I searched someone to share my opinions with, and the person was right in front of my nose! Also, I am aware that many Croats will still try to perform excorcisms on Reiki practioners, or any person that tries to open Croatian society to the New age aspect, or any subject related to it. But, when I have a person who I can discuss these subjects with, I am very relieved.

Pan

[Makaveli]

I can't ap yet but I think I'm close, I think that the thought of it would just be a little to much for some people to handle.  Once I can do it I have one friend that I'll tell it to but he would probably want to try it out cause he's into paranormal stuff and is always dragging me along all kinds of different haunted places. I have no idea what my other friends and family would think, I explained sleep paralysis to one friend and he believed me but was suprised enough that something like that exits .

[Reason]

I also don't have anyone to talk to about this fully.  I was at dinner yesterday with my mom and her friend Roy.  Eventually Roy asked me what I was going to study in college, and I told them Eastern Philosophy.  Both of them stopped and stared at me.  My mom said, "oh you don't know what Roy thinks of that".  Then my mom asked me if I was joking.  They both think it's a waste of time.  

You aren't the only one.

[tara]

hi. What can i say...
I know just how you feel. I have felt this strange longing since i was 13. I belive i lived in ireland some time in the 10th century. Music, pictures tv programs etc can trigger this strong feeling. But the problem is that people have a tendency to back away when I try to talk about it. Therefore I'm happy that there are people like you that share your feelings... []

TARA

[Pandemonium]

I'm glad that so much interest has been shown for this subject. I would also like to thank all of you who shared your experiances with me. However, I am sure that better times will come, and all the "satanic" subjects will be discussed on regular basis. I will take long time for this to happen, but it will happen.

Pan

[Pandemonium]

...if I could get some insight on how does your society in general react on subjects such as OBE or some forms of energy development. You see, here, in Croatia, people are frightened by these new subjects. They believe that all new things, such as OBE, Reiki, even Yoga are a work of Satan. I know it sounds foolish. But if you go to //www.vatican.va and search for "New age" in their documents you will see a huge report cursing all energy work and similar subjects. It's like it was writen by someone who lives in my country. The people here are afraid of anything new, of God, his wrath, that they will go to hell etc. Most of the priests of all faiths support these thoughts. I feel so lonely because there are certain times I want to discuss my experiances with someone, not on the forum, because some OBEs are too personal. I know there are alot of web pages about OBE, and related subjects, but what I really want to know is - are the people around you open enough to discuss OBEs without dooming you to the "fires of hell" or "eternal torment". I mean your general surroundings. How open is your country, nation to such subjects? I have a feeling I live in 11th century![|)] Can you tell me your experiances related to this?