Interesting (personal) discoveries

[Draege]

I've never managed to have an OBE from straight up meditation from being fully awake in the couple years I've been trying. That doesn't bother me too much actually. All my OBEs aka Astral Experiences aka Lucid dreams have happened during or after sleep sessions. Most of them happen after waking from sleep and going right back in. For a while I felt as though I had mastered them- I'd actually just pull the previous dream imagery into my head and focus on it which would suck me in. This was always generally easy if I remembered to actually DO it.

Nowadays I don't do that anymore. My lucid dreaming slowed down imo because of the culmination of understanding I was taught by them which is ultimately they are not that important to be focused on. Don't worry about all the elusive answers of greater reality and start LIVING YOUR LIFE. So my whole path led me to personal growth in the way of realizing its all about living this life to its fullest. All the spiritual understanding is in fact a fundamental part of that, but its not meant to be the main focus by any means. Its a means to an end basically.

Anyhow, recently I've been wanting to bring my lucid dreaming back to regular levels. Just for the unbelievable enjoyment I get out of them, and plus there's still so much I want to experiment with. My life is in order nowadays, so its not by any means going back on what I've learned. Anyhow, I seem to have lost the old way I used to do things. Not that I can't, but I started doing it differently and suddenly the experiences started changing. Instead of that 'phasing' approach where I focused into the dream, once I wake from sleep I simply relax and empty my mind and let myself fall into the dreamstate. However, it seems everytime this happens now I get an EXTREMELY violent sleep paralysis experience where it feels like my chest is about to explode as well as everything around me. At first I was thinking this is the whole natural fear thing causing a bad experience but the thing is I've gotten over fear completely because of previously long trend of bad lucid dreams and sleep paralysis. I can shutoff bad experiences by simply calming myself. But these now which were actually just raw uncomfortableness and overwhelmingness, didn't seem like negative attackers quite- especially since I was focusing on not being afraid so as not to spawn that stuff. So why were they still happening?

That's what I think I've figured out.. Are these vibrations, just really violent ones? It kind of makes sense.. Instead of directly phasing which is known for its ease and general lack of virbrations, I'm doing something that is in a sense making my mind fade away my body and let the dreamstate come to me, which could make sense that the vibrations exist in this kind of action. Which means next time it happens (tomorrow morning probably) if I can just hang on and stay completely calm through it I'll make it to the end. But I'm not sure if its worth it, perhaps I should focus on trying to go back to the phasing-type technique I used to use.

[BillionNamesofGod]

But I'm not sure if its worth it, perhaps I should focus on trying to go back to the phasing-type technique I used to use.

can you  explain your phasing method?

[Draege]

In the morning right after waking I just pull back the memory of the dream I was just having before I woke. I focus on it really hard and put my emotions into basically, and I'm simply pulled in and it becomes my real surroundings again. Takes a split second assuming I didn't wake up 'too' much. A key part is not physically moving after you wake up.

[catmeow]

I use exactly the same technique.

Recently I discovered another technique (after waking in the morning).  Lie on my back and focus on top of my head (chakra?).  Then focus on heart (chakra?). Switch focus between these two a few times.  Then I begin to feel weird (dizzy?) and after this can roll out of bed/body and begin a LD/AP.

Don't know if this has anything to do with the chakras, rather I think it's simply a mental focussing aid - by focussing attention away from the physical body (on heart and crown chakras), and because your body is sleepy, you slip into MABA (mind-awake-body-asleep) quickly.  Once in MABA it's easy to initiate an LD.

[Stevo]

If you want my oppinion, knowledge has killed the old way for you. When there is an innocence to everything that happens, we tend to build simpler, happier forms of phasing as we 'know' it's simple.

As we study other people's techniques and experiences and this that and everything which goes on with NO BOUNDARIES, our subcontious is filled with so many details it builds us barriers to fufill our 'knowledge' that it's more difficult than first percieved. The reality is there are no borders. It can be as hard or as easy as you let it. You will not truly feel that until you see it from the outside.

As for the violence, it's taken a strong hold on you. I believe from what you're telling me is that you percieve a boundary between you and the 'astral' focus of mind. In fact, most people have this idea. So, for many people, there is a sense of lacking control. This accounts for the violence.

As for what catmeow said, she's right. The idea is to focus away from the physical, to completely encompass your mind in something else, until you forget the physical. It's as mystical as the things behind you. Of course you can't see what's behind your head, but once you turn around, you can.

There is a way to return to the innocence. Stop studying. Stop reading anything spiritual related. Forget phasing, OBE's, astral, all of it. Remove it from your life for four months. Never speak or wonder about it. Lose it all from your mind. Then, eventually your mind will return to it by itself. After the crap is cleansed, you will remind yourself of lucid dreams that were fun. You'll get back in to it, and your innocence on the topic will open doors.

Otherwise, suffer time with going down confusing paths, having to sort what's plausible and unrealistic, constantlyy running in to barriers both mentally and scheduled, to finally come to a clunky, rattling stop at your goal. Then in that moment all that crap will be shed immediately leaving your innocence again.

I think I'm having issues with myself. I'm sorry if I confused you.

[catmeow]

Wow Stevo! So my sex change op was a complete success! lol...  

[BillionNamesofGod]

I use exactly the same technique.

Recently I discovered another technique (after waking in the morning).  Lie on my back and focus on top of my head (chakra?).  Then focus on heart (chakra?). Switch focus between these two a few times.  Then I begin to feel weird (dizzy?) and after this can roll out of bed/body and begin a LD/AP.

Don't know if this has anything to do with the chakras, rather I think it's simply a mental focussing aid - by focussing attention away from the physical body (on heart and crown chakras), and because your body is sleepy, you slip into MABA (mind-awake-body-asleep) quickly.  Once in MABA it's easy to initiate an LD.

There is no exact science and there is no particular necessity for any order of states. That doesn't stop people thinking that way, of course.

I'm not what you might call a fan of RTZ projection, but as a demonstration to myself, a few times I have projected in a traditional sense directly from the physical (no "trance state" or any other state) into the real-time zone.

What this practice of RTZ projection actually entails is a particular kind of energy interaction between the yellow and purple energy centres. You need to be fairly relaxed, I suppose, so you can focus on the matter in hand. But if you set off the purple centre and let it throb away you'll feel a vibrational energy travel down your body and interact with the yellow centre. When you feel the two start to "talk to each other" then you'll find you can simply rollout of the physical.

When I say "talk to each other", after a short while there comes a point when you feel waves of a tingling, buzzing kind of energy travelling up and down your body. At which point you should feel incredibly light and airy, and feel "static electicity" type symptoms. You might hear a static kind of crackling or hissing and feel tingles and stuff. When I say you'll feel light and airy, it's like you are in a tiny boat bobbing up and down on the waves of an ocean. At which point you should be able to just roll to one side and "exit" into the real-time zone.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression all the so-called "exit techniques" were designed to bring you to the point where you could "exit". This is not the first time I've seen a post of late where I'm seeing evidence that people are beginning to think that some kind of technique is necessary in order to "exit."

If you fire-off the two energy centres as I described then you'll simply plop out of your own accord. In answer to the question of, "How do I know when to exit?" The simple answer is: when you feel like you can. Once the requisite conditions have been met, there is no trying... it just happens.

You say you are feeling strong vibrations. So you have obviously set something off. I always used to tell people that once they are at the vibrational stage then they should be able to just rollout. But then I realised people who do "energy work" tend to get all manner of vibrations as a result. Not just the particular kind of vibrations that occur as a result of the energy interation between the yellow and the purple centres as I have described. Apart from setting off my heart centre for a bit of fun now and again, I never engage in any kind of specific "energy work".

A such, if I were you I'd try and find out what, exactly, you have energised in order to get the vibrations you are getting. Because you can try all the "exit techniques" in the world, but if you do not have the necessary centres energised and the requisite engagement between them, you will go nowhere unfortunately.

I feel too much emphasis is placed on techniques these days. Problem with that is Astral Projection is an art, not a science. It's the difference between creating music using computer software and playing the actual instruments, painting your house and painting someone's portrait, that kind of thing.

Yours,
Frank

from
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18212&start=0


wow this is amazing!!! Above is I think the first post I ever read from Frank, I sent him a PM asking to explain his method.

His phasing method, seems identical, i.e. the focus on two alternate energy chakra centres, the purple and yellow one.
Basically, frank says he can get an OBE purely by stimulating two of the correct energy centres.

This is remarkable  I get the main phasing method is actually New Energy Work on two centres, and it appears from that simple act alone you can induce an OBE!!

Is this is what phasing is really all about?  All that is required in concentration on two energy centres?

Can anyone else verify and explain this method? Sounds like the most amazing and simple method to induce an OBE?

[upstream]

This is not phasing. It's a simple OBE method that could unhook your personality in another consciousness thread. A similar practice has been described in Vijnanabhairava Tantra but just as Catmeow I learned it myself. However, my approach wasn't that heuristic, I have rather understood how OBE works.

Actually what we are dealing here with are two set of body focuses. One set is associated with being in the body (I call it autopoetic triad), and another with being out of it (OBE triad). Basically an OBE could be triggered either by collecting body awareness exclusively in one (or more) points associated with the OBE triad (á la Frank), or by oscillating awareness between members of the OBE and autopoetic triad (Catmeow).

[catmeow]

Hi BillionNamesofGod

I feel a bit guilty now because the "discovery" wasn't really mine....

I only tried this "two centre" technique because I was lying in bed and vaguely remembered Frank's post about focussing on two energy centres. So I thought i'd give it a try.  But I couldn't remember any of the details of his post at the time other than focussing on the two energy centres. Re-reading his post now I had completely forgotten all the other details especially the "roll out" part.  

The technique did in fact work extremely well, and I did actually "roll out" just like Frank said (although I'd forgotten this detail).  My symptoms were of dizziness just prior to "roll out" rather than tingling.  I tried this technique on two consecutive mornings and it worked both times.

I do think it's worth a try, although I'm not sure if chakras are actually involved, I simply don't know.  My feeling is that by focussing on the two energy centres you "go within yourself" ie withdraw awareness from the physical world and concentrate on the "inner world".  So in Frank parlance this would be identical to "shifting focus of consciousness". Once you've disconnected from the physical (shifted focus), the "roll out" part is easy...

Maybe others can give this a try?

[BillionNamesofGod]

This is not phasing. It's a simple OBE method that could unhook your personality in another consciousness thread. A similar practice has been described in Vijnanabhairava Tantra but just as Catmeow I learned it myself. However, my approach wasn't that heuristic, I have rather understood how OBE works.

Actually what we are dealing here with are two set of body focuses. One set is associated with being in the body (I call it autopoetic triad), and another with being out of it (OBE triad). Basically an OBE could be triggered either by collecting body awareness exclusively in one (or more) points associated with the OBE triad (á la Frank), or by oscillating awareness between members of the OBE and autopoetic triad (Catmeow).

Hi BillionNamesofGod

I do think it's worth a try, although I'm not sure if chakras are actually involved, I simply don't know.  My feeling is that by focussing on the two energy centres you "go within yourself" ie withdraw awareness from the physical world and concentrate on the "inner world".  So in Frank parlance this would be identical to "shifting focus of consciousness". Once you've disconnected from the physical (shifted focus), the "roll out" part is easy...

Maybe others can give this a try?

Fascinating stuff  this two point focus method certainly from my eyes is a phasing technique, simply because it's more about internal focus, and you don't need to know anything else.

Traditional methods seem to be the oppossite, all about focussing all of your body, being very aware of your body etc.. this seems very oppossite so to me fits more into the phasing concepts.

What interests me here, here we have a technique which I've never seen described in any book or by anyone else !!  This is something entirely new to me.   I still think you can be more successful at phasing by embracing energy concepts! They are all interlinked as "pmonline" would say.

Upstream can you give me more information and links about  Vijnanabhairava Tantra, autopoetic triad, OBE triad, I've never heard anyone talk on these days, so it's great stuff.
I'm really quite excited about this  oscillating/phasing on two points method,  I think there is something new here, perhaps there is a "resonance" phasing/oscillating method here that can guarantee OBEs!

Infact it's virtually a bridge between pure 100% phasing methods, and non phasing methods I feel.

Can anyone else elaborate if they have tried this method?