The whole fear is negative and love is positive thing

[astralm]

So my guess is the root of issue is has to do with ideas translated from eastern languages into western languages, where there was no really appropriate word for what was described so they used fear.

The net result is in this 'new age' or whatnot movement there is what seems to be an almost universal view that fear and pain are 'negative' and love and such are 'positive'.  This is extremely misleading to flat out silliness.  Fear and pain are not negative, evil, bad, or something we should be striving to purge completely from ourselves.  They are actually necessary and we would never survive long enough without them to even be capable of doing any kind of spiritual growth.

Lets look at some examples.  Baby who just learns how to walk falls and hits his head.  This hurts, he feels pain, which leads to a fear of him hitting his head.  Is this negative or bad?  Absolutely not if we didn't have a fear of our brains getting smashed or of burning ourselves not a single one of us would make it to adulthood.  If we got rid of the pain of being burned and replaced it completely with pleasure, this would not be good or beneficial to us.

Even as an adult I am afraid of many things, and it is a good thing I am (I also struggle with negative uses of fear too, we all do).  I am afraid of getting hit by a car, so I don't walk across the freeway during traffic, I avoid the situation.  This is how fear is suppose to work, it identifies negative situations and you therefore use it to avoid those situations.  When fear is negative is when we use it outside of the situation it is needed for or allow it to control us (freezing and unable to act is rarely ever helpful, even in a legit fearful situation).  For example being afraid of getting bit by a poisonous snake is a good fear to have, it will serve you well as long as you can recognize when it is an appropriate situation to have that fear (for example if a rattlesnake is at your feet).  You still shouldn't let that fear control you, but you need the fear to stay safe.  Even worse is when you fear a snake is going to get you anywhere so you never go out for a hike because there could be a snake there, or you are afraid of a simple corn snake that cannot hurt you at all.  The problem is not fear, it is your reaction to the fear.

Alternately there is a current thread about if you need protection or not and how it is based on if you have fear or not.  Now having fear of something taking over your body or messing with you is valid, you should be afraid of these things.  However unless you are overly worried about these things they are not going to happen during a normal obe, so again it is not the fear that is negative, it is your reaction to it.

Even most of the greats seem to miss this point.  Everywhere you look spiritual growth is accomplished by replacing fear with love.  I was listening to Tomas Campbell preach this on audio book just today (actually what sparked this post.)  It is very important to point out you don't want to get rid of your fears, you want to get rid of how you react and allow your fears to control you.  Xanth was saying almost the same thing about emotions in the previous mentioned thread on protection.  The goal is not to get rid of emotions, this is stupid and honestly if that was your goal anti-depressants are great at achieving this, doesn't lead any sort of spiritual growth, you need to change how you react to emotions.  Same thing goes for fear and pain.  They are not negative, they are positive and necessary.  However how we react and use them (often as forms of control and oppression, both physically and spiritually) is what we need to address.

[Xanth]

You're confusing "fear" (the emotion) with "Fear" (the... being-level concept) and "love" (the emotion) with "Love" (the... being-level concept).
They're not the same thing.  Most people make this same mistake though.

http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2014/02/23/best-method-astral-projection-paths-spiritual-growth-2/

Give that a read... I tried to be a little more precise in it. 

[astralm]

I disagree.  There is no such thing as non fear based growth.  Desire and fear are connected they cannot be disconnected.  Any intent you have is based in fear, this is not negative.  I want to feed people and help my fellow humans, can just as easily be expressed as I fear I am not doing what I can to end needless suffering of my fellow humans.  I desire to grow my consciousness can just as easily be expressed as I fear I will waste my opportunity to grow my consciousness in my time here in pmr.  These fears are valid.  I understand the difference between fear the emotion and fear at the being-level concept and both are necessary and not negative.  just because you decide to express your positive fears as desires doesn't change that they are fears.

[Xanth]

I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say.

[astralm]

I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say.

Don't worry your not the first:)

[Szaxx]

Fear as in being very frightened or the fear of non performance of expectations?
The first is deep routed pure emotion, an instinctive feeling and it drives your intent instantly to the fight or flight response.
The second is a higher level issue, not wanting to be perceived as a failure in what you could possibly do. This is mainly ego driven through peer pressure and desire.
Nowhere near as effective at driving the intent on action.
The first is ' it will happen' rather than 'I'll try' in the second instance. There's no fight in flight in the second case, you may feel depressed from a fail in the second one. A fail in the first will be far more devastating.
One word with many meanings.

[astralm]

@Szaxx

That is exactly my point.  Fear is a huge word, with many meanings, many layers and many dimensions.  Some of these layers are bad and can be the root of great barriers to personal development, they must be purged and eliminated.  However what has been done is instead of identifying this subset of fear as a whole, the shortcut has been taken to just say fear is bad and needs to be eliminated.  This is a halfbutt approach which is misleading, confusing, and depending on how literal the person takes it, downright dangerous.  It is a very easy view, and seems quite rational when viewed from the surface, to say fear is negative and evil, and pain along with it, with no positive purpose.  This however is in actuality a narrow minded view, which romanticizes the simplicity of fear (and pain).

I use to be in the camp like many, that thought oh well it is pretty easy to separate the base level of fear that we need and is not evil from the emotion driven fear that we need to get rid of.  However after hours of really thinking about it, it is a much deeper issue than we give it credit for.  If you really dive into how all the feelings we have work and are connected, the longer you look the more you come to realize the error of the view of just cutting one completely out because it can cause problems with the expectation it will not cause chaos to all the others.  Or at least I did:)

[Szaxx]

Even though Ianguage is well developed there are many instances where it fails miserably. 'Light' on its own can mean so many different things, it has to be applied to something to allow you to interpret its respective meaning.
Fear is constructive, without this base emotion, would we have survived the toils of evolution. The same applies to experiencing the NP, differing ruleset and manifestation causes many to 'require' some form of protection in their endeavors. Until you've comprehended a broad spectrum of fear, you're locked into a conundrum of needless requirement respecting the NP.

[aspirine101]

Hey Xanth I did not known there's a difference between emotional fear and love and, what you call "being-level" fear&love. I will take a read on the link you posted
I always found it weird that people say that love is everything and you must feel nothing but love. Usually I view love as a brain-trick to make you trust someone... someone that could one day stab your back because you've trusted him/her that much. Maybe after I read your link I will understand the difference, thank you.

[Subtle Traveler]

I think that Xanth explained it very succinctly.

[astralm]

I think that Xanth explained it very succinctly.

The point isn't about who said it the best.  Or even who is right and who is wrong.  The point isn't about persuading someone to see it your way.

The point is to put topics out there that are important and to put a few different perspectives out there which will engage you and have you think about it for yourself.  If you don't think the topic has relevance to your personal growth than ignore it.  If you believe it does then don't just pick out the few view points here or in a book which one you think is right.  Really engage the topic and think about it.  That is where real personal growth comes from, not from picking who you like the best, or who explains their point of view the best, or even who has the most logical point of view.  It is about discovering your own point of view. 

[Xanth]

Exactly. 

Don't "believe" anything.
Question everything until you have enough personal experience to draw your own conclusions.

[Subtle Traveler]

@astralm

I made a brief observation about Xanth's comment. I did not write anything about "best", but I did write he was "succinct". I will put it another way - "His comment was brief and clear."

I would also observe that this is a public internet forum, so others do have the ability to comment and add to any discussion that begins (and that includes any discussion that you begin). The forum is structured for comments to be made when someone posts a new thread.

I have NOT been critical. Actually I have been very respectful of you in all my posts here at AP, and that includes lettings you figuring things out for yourself in this thread.

[Xanth]

@astralm

I made a brief observation about Xanth's comment. I did not write anything about "best", but I did write he was "succinct". I will put it another way - "His comment was brief and clear."

I would also observe that this is a public internet forum, so others do have the ability to comment and add to any discussion that begins (and that includes any discussion that you begin). The forum is structured for comments to be made when someone posts a new thread.

I have NOT been critical. Actually I have been very respectful of you in all my posts here at AP, and that includes lettings you figuring things out for yourself in this thread.

Speaking from the position of being the forums Administrator... I also give this an "Exactly". 

One big thing I've learned over the course of the last 10+ years is that everyone has an opinion... and more importantly, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, everyone is more than welcome to share that opinion.
At least, as long as I am the administrator of this forum, that will be the case. 

[astralm]

@astralm

I made a brief observation about Xanth's comment. I did not write anything about "best", but I did write he was "succinct". I will put it another way - "His comment was brief and clear."

I would also observe that this is a public internet forum, so others do have the ability to comment and add to any discussion that begins (and that includes any discussion that you begin). The forum is structured for comments to be made when someone posts a new thread.

I have NOT been critical. Actually I have been very respectful of you in all my posts here at AP, and that includes lettings you figuring things out for yourself in this thread.

I was just attempting to add an idea onto your comment.  It is clear I came across as attacking your comment.  I can understand why, I wrote it very late and did not really structure my post the very best.  I apologize that wasn't my attention and I always welcome everyone's ideas and comments.

Lastly about your not being critical of my posts.  I would just like to say I am completely okay with people being critical of my posts (in a respectful way of course).  I think having fellow peers you respect (and I do respect this community) be critical of your ideas is a great tool for personal growth.

[Trepkos]

You're confusing "fear" (the emotion) with "Fear" (the... being-level concept) and "love" (the emotion) with "Love" (the... being-level concept).
They're not the same thing.  Most people make this same mistake though.

http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2014/02/23/best-method-astral-projection-paths-spiritual-growth-2/

Give that a read... I tried to be a little more precise in it. 

You categorized good and evil. Most humans are known to oscillate between the two polarities. This means that humans express both positive and negative energy. One can argue that some people are more negative than positive, thus still classifying the concepts, but in a more fuzzy way. This is the root of all things evil; putting everything into boxes, antagonizing the concept of approximation. One can oscillate near the polarities, avoiding identification and thus classification, being in a position where control can be exercised over the dialectical process i.e. nature. Classification an sich should give a student some edge over nature, but this reflects the classical way, making room for the inability to handle contradictions right which manifest, resulting in a crisis and thus transformation into the opposite is a result of this same (spiritual) crisis.