Hi,
I wanted to know if lucid dreaming is the same thing as astral projection/obe?
Please discuss the theories/evidence/ your experiences?
Thanks.
Ha! Just that easy eh? Just discuss your theories here. :)
*grabs popcorn* This should be good. ;)
(if you didn't notice, this is a VERY loaded question in these circles... so we're going to be monitoring this thread closely, please discuss with respect.)
They are slightly different but very similar.
For all practical purposes they are essentially the same though for me
I have become lucid during a dream before but this is different then having vibrations and projecting. Lucid dreaming you become aware and already are in the dream body in the progressing dream. When you have vibrations you consciously experience going from the wake state from your physical body into the projecting body. You experience your "focus" go from the physical to the np. Yet the actual construct seems identical ie you can perform the same tasks from either. Also when I project it usually is in a close replica of my physical surroundings. Lucid dreaming is already in progress. This phenomenon has made me place much more value on dreams as far as their "reality" goes. If you experience something then it is "real" rather physical or obe. Most people dont believe dreams are "real." Good luck luffy. I know you try hard.
Quote from: Windwalker. on February 18, 2019, 21:25:58
I have become lucid during a dream before but this is different then having vibrations and projecting. Lucid dreaming you become aware and already are in the dream body in the progressing dream. When you have vibrations you consciously experience going from the wake state from your physical body into the projecting body. You experience your "focus" go from the physical to the np. Yet the actual construct seems identical ie you can perform the same tasks from either. Also when I project it usually is in a close replica of my physical surroundings. Lucid dreaming is already in progress. This phenomenon has made me place much more value on dreams as far as their "reality" goes. If you experience something then it is "real" rather physical or obe. Most people dont believe dreams are "real." Good luck luffy. I know you try hard.
Personally, I view these experiences as a spectrum of awareness within consciousness.
While most people think you "have" a dream... or you "have" a lucid dream... or you "have" an astral projection...
I view it from the opposite perspective.
They're all non-physical experiences.
You ARE lucidly aware while having a non-physical experience.
You ARE astrally aware while having a non-physical experience.
I can explain it kind of like this... it's like being drunk.
There are different levels of being drunk.
First you're stone sober. You're not drunk at all (astral awareness experience).
Then you're kind of tipsy, you feel warm and fuzzy (lucid awareness experience).
Then at some point you, you're so drunk the world around you just feels like a dream (dream awareness experience).
So essentially, what it comes down to is that you're not having a lucid dream... your awareness is simply experiencing the non-physical through a not so clear-filter. The more you can clear that filter, the more clear the experience.
Does that make any sense? I view it from the perspective of your awareness, instead of what you subjectively feel the experience is.
Yes, I agree with Xanth.
I'll put my spin on it a bit, which will be very similar to what others have said.
Yes, they are all the same. They are just perceived differently.
Lucid dreaming - becoming aware while dreaming and you can manipulate the surroundings in your dreams, hence your own creation.
OBE - It feels like you are wandering around outside your body in the "real time zone", such as walking around your house or flying around in your back yard.
Astral Projection - You become aware of your surroundings while you are asleep except that none of your surroundings are your creation. Normally you visit people and places you may know or may have never seen before.
But they are all projections of consciousness, just labeled based upon the perception. Also, you never leave your body. You are where you have always been. All you are really doing is shifting your awareness.
Another difference is lucid dreaming obviously happens during REM sleep. Many obes dont happen during REM sleep which is really astonishing. How do they happen without REM?
LD is more the way you get there, namely by already being in a D.
Projection for me also means induction (direct or indirect from half-sleep).
Still I remember getting lucid is always somehow in the more (private) 'dream zone' (as Kurt Leland calls it) which would be F2 according to Kepple.
OBE/AP can get you anywhere probably from F1-F4 if you are capable (although F1 might not be the actual F1 but a kind of etheric layer of the physical then).
Just from my gathered experience but I feel this fits also the accounts of many others.
Thanks,
The reason I was asking is that I'm trying to do this technique and can't awaken after 4 to 5 hours of sleep to do the obe4u technique? Any advice?
This is the technique I'm trying
https://www.thelucidguide.com/Techniques/Senses-Initiated-Lucid-Dream-(SSILD)
Thanks.
Quote from: luffy28 on February 20, 2019, 19:22:01
Thanks,
The reason I was asking is that I'm trying to do this technique and can't awaken after 4 to 5 hours of sleep to do the obe4u technique? Any advice?
This is the technique I'm trying
https://www.thelucidguide.com/Techniques/Senses-Initiated-Lucid-Dream-(SSILD)
Thanks.
There are so many. There are many sites with many techniques. Although projections of consciousness is a natural ability that we all have every night we go to sleep, for many people it is an extremely disciplined skill to have conscious projections of consciousness. In other words, fully aware and immersive conscious projection experiences that you remember upon awakening. For many people, it requires lots of practice, patience, and persistence. I have links to many websites that offer many different methods. For many people, it takes a bit of time to find the right method that works for them. And sometimes once the method is discovered, that method is not always consistent, and you quite often have to explore other methods. Some people hit it off immediately and have successful amazing projections, others may take days, weeks, months, and even years before having consistent successful projections. But it doesn't have to take that long. It just depends on your state of mind and your degree of intent.
As some one put it, every thing you see a a lucid dream is part of your dream , not real . When you go out of body it is real , or some thing like that .
Quote from: ForrestDean on February 21, 2019, 18:51:58
There are so many. There are many sites with many techniques. Although projections of consciousness is a natural ability that we all have every night we go to sleep, for many people it is an extremely disciplined skill to have conscious projections of consciousness. In other words, fully aware and immersive conscious projection experiences that you remember upon awakening. For many people, it requires lots of practice, patience, and persistence. I have links to many websites that offer many different methods. For many people, it takes a bit of time to find the right method that works for them. And sometimes once the method is discovered, that method is not always consistent, and you quite often have to explore other methods. Some people hit it off immediately and have successful amazing projections, others may take days, weeks, months, and even years before having consistent successful projections. But it doesn't have to take that long. It just depends on your state of mind and your degree of intent.
Thanks,
I was also trying this technique https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/ and every time I went to sleep for 4 to 6 hours I couldn't get back to sleep. Should I just try to sleep 2 to 3 hours instead?
Thanks.
Quote from: luffy28 on February 22, 2019, 17:38:51
Thanks,
I was also trying this technique https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/ and every time I went to sleep for 4 to 6 hours I couldn't get back to sleep. Should I just try to sleep 2 to 3 hours instead?
Thanks.
You could. Those are just suggested times for the average individual, but not everyone is the same of course. You have to really explore yourself and discover what works best for you.
If you're having a hard time falling back to sleep you could try to just lay on your back with your hands to your side and don't move. Even if you have the urge to move, don't. This overwhelming urge to move or repositioning your body is your brain's signal testing if your body is asleep or not. By not moving you are signaling to your brain that your body is asleep. Sometimes this is a good method to induce sleep paralysis. Also, don't entertain or focus on the thoughts that flood your brain, but don't try to avoid them either. That can be just as worse as focusing on them and is still hard to fall back to sleep. Just let your thoughts flow naturally into and out of your brain without attaching to them. If you are still struggling with thoughts and emotions that are keeping you awake try focusing only on the ringing within your ears and your third eye at the same time. This can give you the sensation of 3D blackness, and you have better success at falling asleep. During this method, you will most likely start to see hypnogogic images. Keep focusing on the ringing in your ears and the hypnogogic imagery. The bonus to this is that your brain is actively focusing on just a couple things which is enough to cause your body to fall asleep but keeps your brain active enough to remain conscious - Mind awake, body asleep.
These are just suggestions of course. There are tons more methods, but these are the ones I normally use, along with some others, to help induce projections of consciousness. Again, everyone is different, so you'll just have to play around with as many methods as you can until you find the right fit.
Quote from: ForrestDean on February 22, 2019, 19:23:36
You could. Those are just suggested times for the average individual, but not everyone is the same of course. You have to really explore yourself and discover what works best for you.
If you're having a hard time falling back to sleep you could try to just lay on your back with your hands to your side and don't move. Even if you have the urge to move, don't. This overwhelming urge to move or repositioning your body is your brain's signal testing if your body is asleep or not. By not moving you are signaling to your brain that your body is asleep. Sometimes this is a good method to induce sleep paralysis. Also, don't entertain or focus on the thoughts that flood your brain, but don't try to avoid them either. That can be just as worse as focusing on them and is still hard to fall back to sleep. Just let your thoughts flow naturally into and out of your brain without attaching to them. If you are still struggling with thoughts and emotions that are keeping you awake try focusing only on the ringing within your ears and your third eye at the same time. This can give you the sensation of 3D blackness, and you have better success at falling asleep. During this method, you will most likely start to see hypnogogic images. Keep focusing on the ringing in your ears and the hypnogogic imagery. The bonus to this is that your brain is actively focusing on just a couple things which is enough to cause your body to fall asleep but keeps your brain active enough to remain conscious - Mind awake, body asleep.
These are just suggestions of course. There are tons more methods, but these are the ones I normally use, along with some others, to help induce projections of consciousness. Again, everyone is different, so you'll just have to play around with as many methods as you can until you find the right fit.
Thanks,
I really need to know how to awaken multiple times during sleep so I can try to do an obe / ld? Any advice?
Thanks.
Quote from: luffy28 on February 22, 2019, 20:22:43
Thanks,
I really need to know how to awaken multiple times during sleep so I can try to do an obe / ld? Any advice?
Thanks.
Have you tried the alarm clock method? lucidology.com has a Lucid Dream Timer.
Quote from: ForrestDean on February 23, 2019, 01:09:16
Have you tried the alarm clock method? lucidology.com has a Lucid Dream Timer.
No. How do I use it? Also, what will the lucid dream timer do?
Edit:
I also have lucidology 101 - 103
Thanks.
Can you tell me how to use it so I can have lucid dreams/obes?
Thanks.
Quote from: luffy28 on February 23, 2019, 23:02:11
Can you tell me how to use it so I can have lucid dreams/obes?
Thanks.
Luffy28, seriously, before falling asleep, say this to yourself a few times: I will be fully aware after falling asleep. Then fall asleep. Don't concentrate on anything, don't think. And you will be aware with practice and persistence after a while in the NP.
Quote from: Phildan1 on February 24, 2019, 14:09:22
Luffy28, seriously, before falling asleep, say this to yourself a few times: I will be fully aware after falling asleep. Then fall asleep. Don't concentrate on anything, don't think. And you will be aware with practice and persistence after a while in the NP.
Thanks,
Every time I try to awaken after four hours of sleep (or less) I end up staying awake. I need to know how to go back to sleep within staying awake for 3 to 5 minutes. Usually, within this time I stay awake. Any advice.
Thanks.
Don't over-complicate it. You wake up, if you can fall back to sleep, use this command thing as your focus of intent. If you can't fall back to sleep normally, stand up or sit up, do something, which grabs your attention, then continue with sleep. Not a hard thing to do. Just use what fits you when you can't fall back to sleep. For me, I tend to use my smartphone to read or listen to something by sitting up or use my tablet to play something. This is not a big task. What is, trying to get rid of hundreds or thousands of experiences of full awareness experiences.
Quote from: Phildan1 on February 24, 2019, 18:43:55
Don't over-complicate it. You wake up, if you can fall back to sleep, use this command thing as your focus of intent. If you can't fall back to sleep normally, stand up or sit up, do something, which grabs your attention, then continue with sleep. Not a hard thing to do. Just use what fits you when you can't fall back to sleep. For me, I tend to use my smartphone to read or listen to something by sitting up or use my tablet to play something. This is not a big task. What is, trying to get rid of hundreds or thousands of experiences of full awareness experiences.
So should I try to stay awake for one to two hours or three hours and then go back to sleep. The reason I'm asking is that I used this technique before and got lucid dreams.
Thanks.
Don't stay up until you can't fall asleep, like battling with the process. If you can't fall asleep with your intent, then, sit up, do something engaging to your mind. Then after a while, 20-30 mins, go to sleep and with you goal. That's all. Simple thing to do. It may take for a while to learn how it works for you with what setup.
If you manage to wake while feeling the drowsiness, that's usually a sign that you are close to the point B, or next to entering a non-physical experience. I've been trying after 4 hours or more of time but I find it difficult to stay aware and I end up missing the exit. However if you endure the heavy foggy sensations of grogginess you may likely end up having an experience. You can then do a rehearsal, try to visualize your last experience, and slowly but surely, you affirm it in you mind and you forget about your body, and done.
Quote from: Windwalker. on February 20, 2019, 15:05:47
Another difference is lucid dreaming obviously happens during REM sleep. Many obes dont happen during REM sleep which is really astonishing. How do they happen without REM?
Think about what you're saying here...
When you're ALREADY SLEEPING and ALREADY IN REM, you experience lucid dreams.
And when you're NOT ALREADY SLEEPING and NOT ALREADY IN REM, you experience obes.
Think about those two statements for a second. They don't mean what you think they mean.
They don't mean that lucid dreaming only happens in REM and obes happen only outside REM.
This is the MAJOR issue with these inaccurate labels people have been using... they've caused people to stop thinking critically.
Quote from: Rakkso on February 25, 2019, 06:53:58
If you manage to wake while feeling the drowsiness, that's usually a sign that you are close to the point B, or next to entering a non-physical experience. I've been trying after 4 hours or more of time but I find it difficult to stay aware and I end up missing the exit. However if you endure the heavy foggy sensations of grogginess you may likely end up having an experience. You can then do a rehearsal, try to visualize your last experience, and slowly but surely, you affirm it in you mind and you forget about your body, and done.
Yeah I ended up taking my meds last night and tried to awaken after 3 to 4 hours. I couldn't stay awake and went back to sleep. It usually happens (not being able to go back to sleep) when I don't take my meds. Like I said I took them last night and couldn't stay awake. What should I do?
Thanks.
Quote from: Xanth on February 25, 2019, 12:06:33
Think about what you're saying here...
When you're ALREADY SLEEPING and ALREADY IN REM, you experience lucid dreams.
And when you're NOT ALREADY SLEEPING and NOT ALREADY IN REM, you experience obes.
Think about those two statements for a second. They don't mean what you think they mean.
They don't mean that lucid dreaming only happens in REM and obes happen only outside REM.
This is the MAJOR issue with these inaccurate labels people have been using... they've caused people to stop thinking critically.
Ok Xanth. When DO lucid dreams happen if not in rem sleep? Also-i didnt say all obes happen in non rem rather I said "many" obes happen in non rem.
Quote from: Windwalker. on February 26, 2019, 05:23:15
Ok Xanth. When DO lucid dreams happen if not in rem sleep? Also-i didnt say all obes happen in non rem rather I said "many" obes happen in non rem.
Ultimately, you're asking the wrong question, because to me, "lucid dreams" aren't anything which actually exist. So asking "when do lucid dreams happen" is like asking me to find you a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. It's a misinterpretation of the data available.
Also, in that same thread of thought, OBEs also don't exist either. Dreams don't exist. None of them *objectively* exist.
People get stuck in the box of attempting to label these experiences and it causes them to have myopic vision regarding them.
It's only when you lose the labels that you will begin to see the forest for the trees.
There are only non-physical experiences consciously aware or not. But then, even those don't really exist as this physical reality experience we're currently having is also a "non-physical" reality. One of an infinite.
On lucid dreams , its a dream you know that you are dreaming and take controll . I have done it a few times . Lets say in your dream you walk through a door , turn around and its a solid wall . You think to your self , this makes no sense . What i do is chose to wake up .
Thanks for all the replies,
I wanted to ask should I try to go to sleep for 2 to 2 and a half hours and then wake up? The reason I'm asking is that I've tried awakening after 4 to 6 hours and I at least stay awake for 2 to 3 hours. Also I'm still trying the obe4u technique.
https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/
Thanks.
Hi,
Last night I set my alarm to awaken me after two and a half hours. The alarm didn't awaken me and I ended up awakening after 4 hours. I did the SSILD technique and was partially lucid in a dream. I ended up talking to a dream character and the dream then ended. I also recalled 5 or 6 dreams and had subsequent awakenings. Any advice on how to obe with the SSILD technique?
https://www.thelucidguide.com/Techniques/Senses-Initiated-Lucid-Dream-(SSILD)
Thanks.
Quote from: luffy28 on March 03, 2019, 16:28:19
Hi,
Last night I set my alarm to awaken me after two and a half hours. The alarm didn't awaken me and I ended up awakening after 4 hours. I did the SSILD technique and was partially lucid in a dream. I ended up talking to a dream character and the dream then ended. I also recalled 5 or 6 dreams and had subsequent awakenings. Any advice on how to obe with the SSILD technique?
https://www.thelucidguide.com/Techniques/Senses-Initiated-Lucid-Dream-(SSILD)
Thanks.
Seems like it all depends on HOW you use the technique, or what you try after the lucid dream ends.
SSILD was designed in a way for people to do the cycles very casually, then simply go to sleep. That's exactly what CosmicIron suggests. However, some people may attempt to LD/OBE directly from waking state while performing the cycles. The other option is to attempt some (Raduga) phasing indirect method after the lucid dream ends.
Cosmic.Iron gives some insight how people may have had these. Here is part of his initial post on SSILD...
Quote"Theory
We do not know why exactly SSILD works. One user pointed out that the method shares some resemblance with the self-hypnosis method introduced by Betty Erickson, wife of the late Dr. Milton H. Erickson. Another theory is that by repeated stimulation of the various senses in a trance-like state, we incubate our mind and body into the right condition suited for entering a DILD, WILD, or OBE.
Regardless the theory, it is utterly crucial to keep in mind that SSILD is not strictly a WILD technique. While many users report successful LD/OBE induction from the waking state, this method is equally effective at inducing DILDs. In fact, I strongly suggest users treat it solely as a DILD technique in order to use it in the most effective manner."
In case you didn't know, a DILD is basically when you are dreaming and then become lucid while dreaming (dream induced lucid dream). However, I put in bold the part where he mentions that some individuals simply change how they perform the technique and keep mind awake, body asleep can induce OBEs.
Quote from: Yodad on March 04, 2019, 17:56:57
Seems like it all depends on HOW you use the technique, or what you try after the lucid dream ends.
SSILD was designed in a way for people to do the cycles very casually, then simply go to sleep. That's exactly what CosmicIron suggests. However, some people may attempt to LD/OBE directly from waking state while performing the cycles. The other option is to attempt some (Raduga) phasing indirect method after the lucid dream ends.
Cosmic.Iron gives some insight how people may have had these. Here is part of his initial post on SSILD...
In case you didn't know, a DILD is basically when you are dreaming and then become lucid while dreaming (dream induced lucid dream). However, I put in bold the part where he mentions that some individuals simply change how they perform the technique and keep mind awake, body asleep can induce OBEs.
Thanks,
I'm going to try the Raduga technique instead. Could've done it last night because I had school canceled because of a snowstorm.
Thanks.
Quote from: luffy28 on March 04, 2019, 19:38:32
Thanks,
I'm going to try the Raduga technique instead. Could've done it last night because I had school canceled because of a snowstorm.
Thanks.
I didn't say abandon what is working. :-o :? I said there are options to try while using SSILD. I hope that is what you mean. If you're having some success, then run with that man. Consistency is what you need right now.
Yeah, I ended up having two or three subsequent awakenings. Also, I had a dream that I was in times square NYC. Other than that I forgot to practice the exit/cycling techniques. Next time I'm going to practice so I can do it correctly.
Thanks.
Tried it after awakening after one hour and 20 minutes last night. For some reason the past two nights I haven't been able to get the subsequent awakenings. When I sleep should the last thought be getting the awakenings? The hardest part is getting the awakenings.
Thanks.
You should invest months and years seeing constant results and stopping doing this get fast results thing. You will see it.
Your first "sleep cycles" or rather the first NP experience chains you get from falling asleep each night, are containing all your mind noise mostly with a great chance so don't expect so much. Rather maybe from the second half of your sleep time. True for everything, even for being silent in your mind and trying out something like phasing or others. It is simply because you live up your crap each time you fall asleep as a beginner and you need to investigate the configuration about what and when to do. Don't rush like a busy spider here and there lol. If you try to know and do everything at once, it will be not so satisfying or you will lose interest quickly.
Quote from: Phildan1 on March 08, 2019, 10:52:19
You should invest months and years seeing constant results and stopping doing this get fast results thing. You will see it.
Your first "sleep cycles" or rather the first NP experience chains you get from falling asleep each night, are containing all your mind noise mostly with a great chance so don't expect so much. Rather maybe from the second half of your sleep time. True for everything, even for being silent in your mind and trying out something like phasing or others. It is simply because you live up your crap each time you fall asleep as a beginner and you need to investigate the configuration about what and when to do. Don't rush like a busy spider here and there lol. If you try to know and do everything at once, it will be not so satisfying or you will lose interest quickly.
Thanks, like I said the only problem I have is the subsequent awakenings other than that I don't' have any problems. I just need to get the subsequent awakenings and I'll be good. Also, I might even do a Skype with Raduga so I can get first-hand info on how to do subsequent awakenings.
Thanks.
I also got a reply on this forum
https://www.forum.obe4u.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&p=22847#p22847
the person said
"Other option , different from the above, you can use the alarm which can shut down immediately by itself after ring. When you are waken by the alarm , apply the indirect method routine immediately. Try your best to stay motionless and do not open your eyes . If motion accidently happened, just try to do the cycling for 4 round."
I don't know what they mean by "you can use the alarm which can shut down immediately by itself after ring"?
Thanks.
Quote from: luffy28 on March 11, 2019, 21:04:41
I also got a reply on this forum
https://www.forum.obe4u.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&p=22847#p22847
the person said
"Other option , different from the above, you can use the alarm which can shut down immediately by itself after ring. When you are waken by the alarm , apply the indirect method routine immediately. Try your best to stay motionless and do not open your eyes . If motion accidently happened, just try to do the cycling for 4 round."
I don't know what they mean by "you can use the alarm which can shut down immediately by itself after ring"?
Thanks.
He means an alarm app that makes an alarm sound then auto shuts off without you pushing anything on the phone to turn off. All I did was search the reddit LD sub because that question is asked a lot. Alarm Clock Xtreme by AVG Labs is suggested a lot for this purpose. You can program it to sound for X seconds and auto shut off it sounds like. I have iOS so I can't even endorse that app, just giving you one.
Quote from: Yodad on March 12, 2019, 04:39:24
He means an alarm app that makes an alarm sound then auto shuts off without you pushing anything on the phone to turn off. All I did was search the reddit LD sub because that question is asked a lot. Alarm Clock Xtreme by AVG Labs is suggested a lot for this purpose. You can program it to sound for X seconds and auto shut off it sounds like. I have iOS so I can't even endorse that app, just giving you one.
Could you or anyone else interpret his comment and tell me how to do the Raduga technique with the alarm he recommended?
Thanks.
Quote from: Yodad on March 12, 2019, 04:39:24
He means an alarm app that makes an alarm sound then auto shuts off without you pushing anything on the phone to turn off. All I did was search the reddit LD sub because that question is asked a lot. Alarm Clock Xtreme by AVG Labs is suggested a lot for this purpose. You can program it to sound for X seconds and auto shut off it sounds like. I have iOS so I can't even endorse that app, just giving you one.
Ha!
I was working on an android app for that very thing about 7 years ago when I was out of work.
Had the whole thing designed out and half programmed. You could select an alarm sound yourself and set a timer which went off at a random interval of your choosing along with a setting for a standard timer which went off then turned off after a predetermined time by the user. Never did finish it... now I have no idea where all that code is nor how to program in java anymore. LoL
Quote from: luffy28 on March 12, 2019, 21:56:03
Could you or anyone else interpret his comment and tell me how to do the Raduga technique with the alarm he recommended?
Thanks.
1. Program the app alarm to make the sound after 4-6 hrs of sleep (or, however many hours after falling asleep that works for YOU). Maybe do a test to find what sound and how long the sound plays before you go to bed.
2. Also set the alarm to auto-shut off, so you don't have to move to turn it off.
3. When it is bed time, set your alarm and go to bed.
4. Sleep.
5. During sleep, you will hear the alarm go off.
Don't move! Keep eyes shut. The alarm should turn off automatically if you set it up right!
6. Perform Raduga technique.
7. Do same steps 1-6 for any days of the week you want to try.
8. Do not change technique for at least 1-2 months.
I used to use the "Insight Timer" for my iPhone. It has excellent timer profiles you can set up to wake you up at certain times throughout the night. You can even use different tones or even vibrate if the tones wake you up too much or there happens to be someone else sleeping next to you that you don't want to wake up. I still have it on my iPhone actually, but I don't use it anymore.
Quote from: Yodad on March 13, 2019, 19:01:16
1. Program the app alarm to make the sound after 4-6 hrs of sleep (or, however many hours after falling asleep that works for YOU). Maybe do a test to find what sound and how long the sound plays before you go to bed.
2. Also set the alarm to auto-shut off, so you don't have to move to turn it off.
3. When it is bed time, set your alarm and go to bed.
4. Sleep.
5. During sleep, you will hear the alarm go off. Don't move! Keep eyes shut. The alarm should turn off automatically if you set it up right!
6. Perform Raduga technique.
7. Do same steps 1-6 for any days of the week you want to try.
8. Do not change technique for at least 1-2 months.
Which app can I use to do this technique? And also how do I set the app to turn off after a certain time?
Thanks.
Quote from: luffy28 on March 14, 2019, 00:26:42
Which app can I use to do this technique? And also how do I set the app to turn off after a certain time?
Thanks.
I gave you an app suggestion only 5 posts up! I feel I am being pranked! :| One more time dude, pay attention...
Alarm Clock Xtreme (by avg labs)
Download:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alarmclock.xtreme.free&hl=en_US
And here is there support page on how to use it:
https://support.avg.com/SupportArticleView?l=en&urlName=AVG-Alarm-Clock-Xtreme-FAQ&q=Alarm+Clock+Xtreme+FAQs&supportType=home
You want to set the alarm for auto-shutoff.
Quote from: Yodad on March 14, 2019, 04:36:16
I gave you an app suggestion only 5 posts up! I feel I am being pranked! :| One more time dude, pay attention...
Alarm Clock Xtreme (by avg labs)
Download:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alarmclock.xtreme.free&hl=en_US
And here is there support page on how to use it:
https://support.avg.com/SupportArticleView?l=en&urlName=AVG-Alarm-Clock-Xtreme-FAQ&q=Alarm+Clock+Xtreme+FAQs&supportType=home
You want to set the alarm for auto-shutoff.
Thanks,
Just wanted to say the feature is called auto-dismiss.
Thanks.
Quote from: Yodad on March 14, 2019, 04:36:16
I gave you an app suggestion only 5 posts up! I feel I am being pranked! :| One more time dude, pay attention...
Alarm Clock Xtreme (by avg labs)
Download:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alarmclock.xtreme.free&hl=en_US
And here is there support page on how to use it:
https://support.avg.com/SupportArticleView?l=en&urlName=AVG-Alarm-Clock-Xtreme-FAQ&q=Alarm+Clock+Xtreme+FAQs&supportType=home
You want to set the alarm for auto-shutoff.
Hi,
I wanted to know if there are any other alarm apps? The reason being that the alarm clock isn't loud enough.
Thanks.
Quote from: luffy28 on March 14, 2019, 15:39:50
Hi,
I wanted to know if there are any other alarm apps? The reason being that the alarm clock isn't loud enough.
Thanks.
Can you not use a sound which is a bit more "sharp" sounding? You can't turn up your phone a bit more? Just thinking out loud. :)
Doe's anyone knows what
For 11-20 attempts (3-14 days) – 90%
means?
Thanks.
Tried it last night. Went horrible I was only awaked once in the night. This was using xtreme alarm. I'll trying using alarmy but alarmy doesn't have a feature for auto-dismiss like xtreme.
Thanks.
Ended up overworking when trying to use alarmy. I should've only used one phone (I used two) and it overwoke me I ended up shutting off both phones. It was also too loud.
I created a 4.5 hr alarm that is having great results luff. Record silence for 90 minutes then add a quick "beep" or whatever alarm sound you want. Do that in three 90 minute intervals so it will equal a total of 4.5 hours. I did it in 90 minite intervals because that is when the brain cycles to REM. So each rem cycle you will have a brief alarm slightly jar you awake....hopefully into the obe state. Good luck!
Quote from: Windwalker. on March 21, 2019, 16:26:58
I created a 4.5 hr alarm that is having great results luff. Record silence for 90 minutes then add a quick "beep" or whatever alarm sound you want. Do that in three 90 minute intervals so it will equal a total of 4.5 hours. I did it in 90 minite intervals because that is when the brain cycles to REM. So each rem cycle you will have a brief alarm slightly jar you awake....hopefully into the obe state. Good luck!
Yeah, every time I try to awaken 4 hours or more after sleep I end up staying up all night when I try to stay awake for five minutes or less.
This is an email Raduga sent to me.
Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 9:01 PM
To: Michael Raduga <obe4u@obe4u.com>
Hi,
I wanted to know if I can replace step 1 in the obe4u method? Instead of sleeping 4 to 6 hours I can sleep for two to two and a half hours. Also does awakening 2 to 3 hours before regular awakening work? The reason I'm asking is that every time I try to awaken after 4 to 6 hours of sleep and try to stay awake for less than 5 minutes I can't go back to sleep and end up staying awake all night long. I have a post on dreamviews asking about this. I also wanted to know how to participate in project Elijah once I have enough experience with the phase?
Thanks.
________________________________________
THE PHASE <obe4u@obe4u.com> Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 7:28 AM
To:
Hi,
You can wake up earlier, but there's no reason for this because your next sleep maybe too deep. Try to reduce 5-minute break, make less movements. We've been working on this problem.
You can participate in our researches even you can enter the phase once per month
- End
I don't understand what he means when he says "Try to reduce 5-minute break, make less movements." Can anyone interpret this for me?
Edit: I also wanted to ask if I can skip step 1 and do step 2 before sleep. Step 1 is awakeing after 4 to 6 hours of sleep. And step 2 is going to sleep with an intention to have a ld (or ap).
https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/
Thanks.
Luffy,
:?
You told Raduga that you have a hard time going back to sleep after only being awake for 5 minutes. So, he tells you to try to stay awake for less than 5 minutes instead!
It means, to try staying awake for less than 5 minutes. Try 0 to 4 minutes.
Try:
- Stay awake for 4 minutes. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
- Stay awake for 3 minutes. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
- Stay awake 2 minutes. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
- Stay awake 1 minute. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
- Stay awake for less than 1 minute. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
Understand? Any time LESS than 5 minutes.
When Raduga says "..., make less movements" he means to try to stay as still as possible. This is where your auto-shut off alarm helps. REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF BODY MOVEMENTS YOU MAKE TO A LITTLE AS POSSIBLE.
Crazy how it takes a paragraph to explain the most simple of things. :cry:
Quote from: Yodad on March 27, 2019, 17:02:01
Luffy,
:?
You told Raduga that you have a hard time going back to sleep after only being awake for 5 minutes. So, he tells you to try to stay awake for less than 5 minutes instead!
It means, to try staying awake for less than 5 minutes. Try 0 to 4 minutes.
Try:
- Stay awake for 4 minutes. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
- Stay awake for 3 minutes. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
- Stay awake 2 minutes. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
- Stay awake 1 minute. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
- Stay awake for less than 1 minute. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
Understand? Any time LESS than 5 minutes.
When Raduga says "..., make less movements" he means to try to stay as still as possible. This is where your auto-shut off alarm helps. REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF BODY MOVEMENTS YOU MAKE TO A LITTLE AS POSSIBLE.
Crazy how it takes a paragraph to explain the most simple of things. :cry:
Can I awaken after two to two and a half hours of sleep? He said in the email that I can sleep for less time. Also if that doesn't work can I skip step 1 and do step 2 before sleep?
https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/
Thanks.
Luffy with all respect, did you even read what we or I said earlier? You are over-complicating it. Sleep for 3-4-5 hours then try it. On your back, don't move and dive into it deeply, let it happen. This is one way only. You need to sleep that much for first because you will be detached more from the physical reality and your mind is clear enough normally.
Quote from: Phildan1 on March 27, 2019, 18:35:37
Luffy with all respect, did you even read what we or I said earlier? You are over-complicating it. Sleep for 3-4-5 hours then try it. On your back, don't move and dive into it deeply, let it happen. This is one way only. You need to sleep that much for first because you will be detached more from the physical reality and your mind is clear enough normally.
Sorry for replying/asking the only reason I replied was that your posts / other posts were confusing and not simple. I'm going to sleep two to two and a half hours then do it.
Also in this URL Raduga says not to count during doing cycling techniques. This is the URL.
https://obe4u.com/typical-student-questions-2/
The problem I'm having is "Excessive Analysis" and "Excessively Alert Awakening (no Attempt or a Sluggish One)" from this URL. I'll explain it once I do it. Which I'm not doing till next Thursday / Saturday / Sunday.
https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/
Thanks.
I found an effective tool for "alarms" with Google Calendar. Android phones have it built in and iOS can download. All you have to do is set a recurring event and it will play a sharp sound a single time without any additional configuration. You don't even need a third-party app!
Luffy, have you ever tried meditation? To me, it seems like excessive analysis only happens when people don't know how to "control" their stream of thoughts.
That said, I feel the Excessively Alert Awakening (no Attempt or a Sluggish One) wording is poor. It says "you ought to follow instructions automatically" but that you also need to consciously do something. That seems contradictory.
It seems like you are getting caught up in theory.
Take this for instance:
(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*WwyiFJI-s9HuOiLVdc-JVQ.png)
You can memorize all the steps of the acronym B.E.E.F for how to properly shoot a basketball. But if you fuss over the details, you'll forget to shoot the ball at all.
Quote from: Pandahead on March 29, 2019, 00:11:48
I found an effective tool for "alarms" with Google Calendar. Android phones have it built in and iOS can download. All you have to do is set a recurring event and it will play a sharp sound a single time without any additional configuration. You don't even need a third-party app!
Luffy, have you ever tried meditation? To me, it seems like excessive analysis only happens when people don't know how to "control" their stream of thoughts.
That said, I feel the Excessively Alert Awakening (no Attempt or a Sluggish One) wording is poor. It says "you ought to follow instructions automatically" but that you also need to consciously do something. That seems contradictory.
It seems like you are getting caught up in theory.
Take this for instance:
(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*WwyiFJI-s9HuOiLVdc-JVQ.png)
You can memorize all the steps of the acronym B.E.E.F for how to properly shoot a basketball. But if you fuss over the details, you'll forget to shoot the ball at all.
Hi,
Can you go into more detail about making an acronym?
I'm also going to attempt the techniques this Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday since I don't have school the two latter days. I wanted to know what Raduga means by this
Phantom wiggling (movement)
"Training. To train the technique of phantom wiggling, relax a hand for several minutes while lying down, eyes closed. Then, aggressively envision the following hand movements, without moving any muscles, for two to three minutes each: rotating, up-down, left-right, extending the fingers and drawing the fingers together, clenching and unclenching a fist." This is page 182 of his pdf book.
I don't know what he means when he says "rotating" "extending the fingers" "and drawing the fingers together"? While I wait for a possible response I'm going to practice what I understand.
Thanks.
I'm honestly unsure if that was sarcasm (the last part) or you actually need us to explain how your hand works? ;)
I need a bit more information.
Quote from: Xanth on April 14, 2019, 01:32:37
I'm honestly unsure if that was sarcasm (the last part) or you actually need us to explain how your hand works? ;)
I need a bit more information.
I think I understand it because I read it out loud multiple times. Also, I needed to know what he means when he says "What's most important is to establish the clear intention of trying them before falling asleep."
It's on this page
https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/
Thanks.
Quote from: Windwalker. on March 21, 2019, 16:26:58
I created a 4.5 hr alarm that is having great results luff. Record silence for 90 minutes then add a quick "beep" or whatever alarm sound you want. Do that in three 90 minute intervals so it will equal a total of 4.5 hours. I did it in 90 minite intervals because that is when the brain cycles to REM. So each rem cycle you will have a brief alarm slightly jar you awake....hopefully into the obe state. Good luck!
I think Raduga officially has a timer like yours.
This is it
https://obe4u.com/instruction-practical-alarm-clock/
It has silence. I don't know if it's an alarm with noise. Someone else online said it was a ramp timer (which I only know a little about what it is i'd be nice if someone could tell me exactly what a ramp timer is).
Thanks.
Quote from: luffy28 on May 06, 2019, 20:30:54
I think Raduga officially has a timer like yours.
This is it
https://obe4u.com/instruction-practical-alarm-clock/
It has silence. I don't know if it's an alarm with noise. Someone else online said it was a ramp timer (which I only know a little about what it is i'd be nice if someone could tell me exactly what a ramp timer is).
Thanks.
Forget all about the name "ramp timer" luffy. It is only an alarm to wake you up. Have you ever set an alarm to wake up early in the morning to go to work or whatever? It is the same thing. It is an alarm to wake you up. But the key is you don't want to actually fully wake up. You don't want the alarm to wake you up so you are wide awake. You only want the alarm to awaken you a little bit. Have you ever woke up in the morning and you still feel sleepy and groggy when you first wake up? That grogginess is what you want to focus on. You want to become even MORE groggy BUT remain awake instead of falling back to sleep. So you want an alarm to only slightly wake you up so you are not fully awake. And you want to set this alarm when you are actively in REM sleep so when you slightly wake up you are waking up from your dream state. Do you understand this or not? What dont you understand?
Quote from: Windwalker. on May 10, 2019, 16:23:26
Forget all about the name "ramp timer" luffy. It is only an alarm to wake you up. Have you ever set an alarm to wake up early in the morning to go to work or whatever? It is the same thing. It is an alarm to wake you up. But the key is you don't want to actually fully wake up. You don't want the alarm to wake you up so you are wide awake. You only want the alarm to awaken you a little bit. Have you ever woke up in the morning and you still feel sleepy and groggy when you first wake up? That grogginess is what you want to focus on. You want to become even MORE groggy BUT remain awake instead of falling back to sleep. So you want an alarm to only slightly wake you up so you are not fully awake. And you want to set this alarm when you are actively in REM sleep so when you slightly wake up you are waking up from your dream state. Do you understand this or not? What dont you understand?
The practical alarm is his voice waking you up in the middle of possible sleep. I tried doing it earlier this morning but when I awoke after 6 hours I ended up staying up for up to an hour to an hour and a half. The reason I stayed up is that I'm not taking the full amount of a med that was prescribed to me. The name of the med is Clozaril. I'm supposed to take 200 mg of it but most nights I take 100mg and 1/4 of the 2nd 100 mg if I take 1 and a half pills I ended up knocked out and virtually can't awaken after 6 hours because the med knocks me out for 12+ hours. When I take only one med I sleep lightly / can't go back to sleep when taking it. Either way, I'm screwed I want to tell my psychiatrist that I don't want to take psych meds but a person told me not to tell the psychiatrist that I want to get off them. I use state-funded insurance to pay for my doctor and psychiatrist since I can't work because of a disability I'm trying to go to school for engineering while not working (I'm not at college level math yet).
I'm trying to use the newest version of the obe4u book which I have physically. I'll tell the difference once I get a reply. Thanks.
What happens when you dont take your clozaril? Ive had friends thru the years who were on those type psyche meds. They can definitely interfere with your practice!
Quote from: Windwalker. on May 23, 2019, 19:57:32
What happens when you dont take your clozaril? Ive had friends thru the years who were on those type psyche meds. They can definitely interfere with your practice!
When I don't take it I can't sleep. I've at least been taking one pill a night. Also when I take it at the reduced level it's very hard to get into a deep sleep. When I take the prescribed amount I end up oversleeping.
An example of this could be trying to awaken after 6 hours and not being able to go back to sleep.
Thanks.
Hi,
I'm practicing the practical quest on obe4u's sister site called project Elijah. I wanted to know I tried to set the practical alarm from my phone and it didn't awaken me at all. I'm trying to play two alarms at once with the 2nd alarm being 20 minutes ahead of the first one. These are the notes I made. Is the timing right? The points for the first alarm (like 1:00 meaning one hour) are the cue points in the practical alarm that are supposed to awaken the user. Any help / advice?
Thanks.
1:00
1:22
1:42
2:04
2:27
3:10
practical alarm 2 times
example 1:07
set the 2nd alarm at 20 mins each one beyond regular alarm / regular alarm starts a 1:07 - 21:07
40:00
1:00:02
1:22:00
1:44:00
2:07:00
2:40:00
Quote from: luffy28 on July 01, 2019, 16:35:51
Hi,
I'm practicing the practical quest on obe4u's sister site called project Elijah. I wanted to know I tried to set the practical alarm from my phone and it didn't awaken me at all. I'm trying to play two alarms at once with the 2nd alarm being 20 minutes ahead of the first one. These are the notes I made. Is the timing right? The points for the first alarm (like 1:00 meaning one hour) are the cue points in the practical alarm that are supposed to awaken the user. Any help / advice?
Thanks.
1:00
1:22
1:42
2:04
2:27
3:10
practical alarm 2 times
example 1:07
set the 2nd alarm at 20 mins each one beyond regular alarm / regular alarm starts a 1:07 - 21:07
40:00
1:00:02
1:22:00
1:44:00
2:07:00
2:40:00
You said the alarm "didnt wake me up." All you need to do is turn up the volume a little bit so it does wake you up. And remember: you dont want the alarm to blow you out of bed because it is so loud. You want the alarm to gently rouse you to waking consciousness. Just enough to know you are awake. If you awake to much you have missed your window.
Luffy, for some reason, you seem to be neglecting your "Internal Clock". Perhaps that's what is being taught to right now. You can't rely on "tech" itself to project.
Common sense would tell me that if I wanted to awaken during the night, I would do something to interrupt my sleep pattern. That something is as easy as drinking a good amount of water or eating a heavy snack before you go to bed. That will fill your bladder or in case of the snack, force your digestive system into action. A full bladder with force you to awaken long enough to empty it, which in turn gives you a chance to AP. Your body will already be well relaxed at that point, so will your mind. You can then implement any of the AP techniques that you wish to use. There are a number of them to be found here in this Sub Forum. Just pick the one you feel comfortable with and have at it.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness-b30.0/
I don't awaken to a alarm clock at all anymore. I program my mind with intent before I go to sleep. Many times I will awaken a few minutes before my chosen time. At first, I used a alarm clock as a back up though. But like with anything else with this practice and other goal in "life" itself in general, you can learn to achieve it. Practice, Patience and Perseverance are the keys to success with any goal you wish to achieve.
Quote from: Lumaza on July 04, 2019, 23:03:39
Luffy, for some reason, you seem to be neglecting your "Internal Clock". Perhaps that's what is being taught to right now. You can't rely on "tech" itself to project.
Common sense would tell me that if I wanted to awaken during the night, I would do something to interrupt my sleep pattern. That something is as easy as drinking a good amount of water or eating a heavy snack before you go to bed. That will fill your bladder or in case of the snack, force your digestive system into action. A full bladder with force you to awaken long enough to empty it, which in turn gives you a chance to AP. Your body will already be well relaxed at that point, so will your mind. You can then implement any of the AP techniques that you wish to use. There are a number of them to be found here in this Sub Forum. Just pick the one you feel comfortable with and have at it.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness-b30.0/
I don't awaken to a alarm clock at all anymore. I program my mind with intent before I go to sleep. Many times I will awaken a few minutes before my chosen time. At first, I used a alarm clock as a back up though. But like with anything else with this practice and other goal in "life" itself in general, you can learn to achieve it. Practice, Patience and Perseverance are the keys to success with any goal you wish to achieve.
Instead of drinking a bunch of water so as to awaken him at night to pee, how about Luffy maybe taking a shitload of exLax before bed? Thoughts?
Quote from: Lumaza on July 04, 2019, 23:03:39
Luffy, for some reason, you seem to be neglecting your "Internal Clock". Perhaps that's what is being taught to right now. You can't rely on "tech" itself to project.
Common sense would tell me that if I wanted to awaken during the night, I would do something to interrupt my sleep pattern. That something is as easy as drinking a good amount of water or eating a heavy snack before you go to bed. That will fill your bladder or in case of the snack, force your digestive system into action. A full bladder with force you to awaken long enough to empty it, which in turn gives you a chance to AP. Your body will already be well relaxed at that point, so will your mind. You can then implement any of the AP techniques that you wish to use. There are a number of them to be found here in this Sub Forum. Just pick the one you feel comfortable with and have at it.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness-b30.0/
I don't awaken to a alarm clock at all anymore. I program my mind with intent before I go to sleep. Many times I will awaken a few minutes before my chosen time. At first, I used a alarm clock as a back up though. But like with anything else with this practice and other goal in "life" itself in general, you can learn to achieve it. Practice, Patience and Perseverance are the keys to success with any goal you wish to achieve.
That also happens to me (awakening automatically especially if I take my meds early [5 - 6 pm]). I need to know some beautiful places to visualize it's for a research project called project Elijah at obe4u (I don't want to link to it because some dislike the obe4u method). I'm on a technique where you awaken 2 hours before your usual awakening time and try to visualize taking action in something for 5 to 10 minutes.
Thanks.
Quote from: luffy28 on July 10, 2019, 22:23:41
That also happens to me (awakening automatically especially if I take my meds early [5 - 6 pm]). I need to know some beautiful places to visualize it's for a research project called project Elijah at obe4u (I don't want to link to it because some dislike the obe4u method). I'm on a technique where you awaken 2 hours before your usual awakening time and try to visualize taking action in something for 5 to 10 minutes.
Thanks.
http://www.astralpulse.com/astralpulseisland.html (http://www.astralpulse.com/astralpulseisland.html)
Hi,
I wanted to ask since every time I awaken and stay awake when doing the obe4u technique. Is there a way I can set a timer to let me stay awake for a minute and a half or less? I use alarmy for waking up but when I usually set off the alarm (with alarmy) and I stay awake for more than 2 minutes I automatically stay up and can't go back to sleep. Is there a way to set a timer for a minute and a half without having to log into my phone (unlocking the lock screen). I have an android Oreo phone. These are the apps I use.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=droom.sleepIfUCan&hl=en_US
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sportstracklive.stopwatch&hl=en_US
Thanks.