Is it as easy as they say?

[BlackBox]

Manix, sounds to me like you're going the right path....same path as me []

[Nay]

quote:It sounds to me like Spectral Dragon is one of the most skilled projectors on this site and he can project consciously whenever he wants to, and he's writing instructions on how to do it.

Interesting..lol..I'm saying that alot lately.[]

Just because one claims to do something and writes instructions on it, does not mean it is all the truth.  I had been projecting without even knowing what it was until I came to this site.  Funny because the better I got at it, the less I talked about it..[?] Plus alot of it is just personal, waaaaaay too long to post about, or wouldn't make a bit of sense for the person reading it.

I can't explain it..I do however, when reading a post that sounds like something I went through, give my two cents so sooner or later some of my experiences come out.

I'm sure you and others will think this is a attack towards Spectral Dragon, but seeings how he claims to project on a dime, well...he should expect people to say..hmmmmm..ok then.  It just seems to me that when someone brags, it is not because they are good at something, but more rather they WANT to be good at something.

I've read a couple of people saying that he knew things that he could possible never know.  Well, I've given Spectral Dragon two opportunities to project to me while on Messenger, because he said he could look around my house.  Not one thing did he get right...not one.[] Of course he said it was my fault, that I was blocking him [:O]  I don't even know how to do that..[]

Anyhoo, I suppose if Spectral helps you achieve your goal, and gives you inspiration then great! []

I've never claimed to be anything more than I am, that would pretty pompous of me and no doubt come back to bite me in the arse later..OUCH. []

I suppose I can brag and say, I've use the soap box alot today, THAT I can do! [] [)]

Nay

[Nay]

Manix, yep...sounds like you just need to try and ignore the stuff you feel going on and focus outside your physical...

Nay

[Manix]

You wouldn't happen to have any hints on how to focus out of the physical do you? I'm one of those people who can't sit still if they tried. So, naturally every single physical sensation is like a fly buzzing circles around my head. I let it annoy me and am not sure how to get past it. An itch that needs scratching, a twitching muscle, a nervous tik, too hot, too cold, oh the how the list rolls on! How do you ignore it all?

[jilola]

What works for me is not trying to focus out of the physical but "not focusing" on the physical. If I don't pay conscious attention to my body I'll eventually start naturally focusing on what's not physical.
Then I gently start directing the focus.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[cube]

quote:
I'm sure you and others will think this is a attack towards Spectral Dragon, but seeings how he claims to project on a dime, well...he should expect people to say..hmmmmm..ok then. It just seems to me that when someone brags, it is not because they are good at something, but more rather they WANT to be good at something.

There isn't anything I read that doesn't make me go hmmmm, especially on this site!!

My yardstick is experience, I try tricks people suggest and if they work then I consider those people to be credible. SD's tricks have shown to be very useful, so have Mustardseed's.

By that measure, I consider SD to be credible enough that I think he probably can project at will.

But SD is not the issue, the issue is that if you have the skills then you are wasting them if you don't use them to help other people to develop the skills.

If you can project and don't bother to figure out how you do it then you may as will not have them in the first place, it degenerates into mental masturbation.

[Nay]

Manix,

Hehehe..practice.  I know, I know that sucks and I was once like you too.  I'm hyper by nature and my mind will not shut up! [:I]  

The cobwebs you feel on your face or neck, that make you feel the need to itch, is when you are going in a light trance.  This is caused by energy movement through the energetic support structures of the brow and crown centers.  

I still get them occasionally, and yep they suck and are hard to ignore...I do exactly that, unless I have a really nasty one that is just bugging the dookie out of me.  In that case I slowly raise up my hand and scratch it, then go right back to relaxing.  I know I've said this several times already, but once I reached up to scratch and my astral arm came out instead..needless to say, I got over excited and messed everything up, but it showed me how parts can be out and not even realize it. []  So my friend you are totally on the right track. []

It really is a matter of concentration and ignoring all those things going on.

Once my legs were flopping around like a fish..no lie! [:O]  I barely thought about it, and had exited without a problem. [^]

Focusing outside your physical..  Well, I imagine I'm walking around my room, touching and seeing things.  But you can think of anyplace away from your body.  Once again, this takes practice to hold the visual long enough to get out.  I start feeling a pull, like a stretching sometimes, I don't just always "POP" to that location.

Oh, geez..I hope this helps ya, I think you are right on the cusp.[]
I'm really excited for you, and can't wait to hear what transpires!

Nay

[cube]

quote:
The forums have many, many, many..and oh..did I say MANY techniques! Read those, you might even come across Manuel explaining his tech or me as well. No sense in explaining it over, and over..lol

I didn't ask for a technique, I asked for the list of techniques that will always lead to a projection. Everyone has their tricks, but not one person has ever come up with a reliable *system* that puts it all together.

Instead people try things until they find something that works well enough for them personally, then they stop and sometimes assume that what they do works for everyone else.

No one has ever put together a big picture system that takes into account various people's quirks and weaknesses.

[Nay]

quote:If you can project and don't bother to figure out how you do it then you may as will not have them in the first place, it degenerates into mental masturbation.

Hehehe..you were saying?  I know exactly how I do it, and have explained on how I do it for over a year on these forums,  call me lazy but there is a search engine right up there ^

A perfect example is my last post...I gave examples of my experiences that I could give freely and without fear that my ego was taking over. [^]

I guess the difference is I don't start a thread souly for me to boast about my abilities. [^]

Nay

[cube]

quote:
I guess the difference is I don't start a thread souly for me to boast about my abilities.

That's right. Until you have a system that you know will work for someone else, you don't have any right to tell that person "it's only as hard as you think it is".

[Nay]

I didn't ask for a technique, I asked for the list of techniques that will always lead to a projection. Everyone has their tricks, but not one person has ever come up with a reliable *system* that puts it all together.

That is because everyone is different!  No one way is going to ALWAYS lead to a projection, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are lying...period.

Instead people try things until they find something that works well enough for them personally, then they stop. No one has ever put together a big picture system that takes into account various people's quirks and weaknesses.

Like I said, there is no one way to do it..  And look, you're not a kid anymore, some times people need to find out things for themselves.  You go to school, get educated for a job to live a decent life, then YOU live it, not the teachers not your friends..YOU.  There is no big secret to projection that is being held back, but dang...fly from the nest, you've been given enough information to find out and explore for yourself.

Nay

[cube]

I'm hoping that my hypnotism analogy is correct and that we'll eventually find a system that works for everyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence. It might me a complex system, and have to be tailored to different personality types or something, but it would still be a system.

Why shouldn't there be such a system?

quote:
There is no big secret to projection that is being held back, but dang...fly from the nest, you've been given enough information to find out and explore for yourself.

To me that's an odd way of looking at it. It seems like you're glorifying on the wrong thing. The growth come *after* you project and you go out exploring. The act of projection is just a technicality, like opening a door or knowing how to drive a car.

[Nay]

quote:Originally posted by cube

quote:
I guess the difference is I don't start a thread souly for me to boast about my abilities.

That's right. Until you have a system that you know will work for someone else, you don't have any right to tell that person "it's only as hard as you think it is".

LOL..slow down, I'm missing some of your posts, remember I have three kids and a hubby whom like my attention too..[]

It is only as hard as you think it will be..why is that such a bad thing to say?  Keep thinking that you can't do it because it is hard and guess what..IT WILL BE..[]

Are we quite done with this lovely little dance tonight Cube?..[^]

Hugs~ Nay

[Nay]

quote:Originally posted by cube

I'm hoping that my hypnotism analogy is correct and that we'll eventually find a system that works for everyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence. It might me a complex system, and have to be tailored to different personality types or something, but it would still be a system.

Why shouldn't there be such a system?

OK..one more dance, so sweet of you to ask.[]

I am a bit confused by the hypnotism thingy..  are you comparing projecting to hypnotism?  

I have no idea why there is no such system or magic way to project, but from my experiences and from hearing from others..there just isn't, sorry. [] Call it a personal journey, if you will and you just might feel that much more fulfilled when you've accomplish it on your own without that magic way.  You have been given the tools to reach this goal..now practice.[]

Nay

[cube]

quote:
It is only as hard as you think it will be..why is that such a bad thing to say? Keep thinking that you can't do it because it is hard and guess what..IT WILL BE..

But the inverse is definitely false, thinking it's easy does not automatically make it easy.

quote:
Are we quite done with this lovely little dance tonight Cube?..

It was fun, this discussion made me think through my view point in a lot of detail and I'm glad the topic was brought up.

[cube]

quote:
I am a bit confused by the hypnotism thingy.. are you comparing projecting to hypnotism?

In a reply to Phong I said:

Before people had much understanding of hypnotism it was viewed the same way, full of vague mystery and handwaving. When people started to drop the BS factor and study it seriously it became a learnable skill that anyone could do.

[Nay]

quote:To me that's an odd way of looking at it. It seems like you're glorifying on the wrong thing. The growth come *after* you project and you go out exploring. The act of projection is just a technicality, like opening a door or knowing how to drive a car.

Ok, no fair editing your post..well, you can edit but adding stuff in later is ummmmmmm...deceptive.  But I'm glad you did it, because now you're sounding like it is easy as opening a door..[]  So what are we arguing about?

Nay [^]

[cube]

Sorry, I thought the typos made it so it didn't make any sense.

Yes, "easy as opening a door" that is what I'm shooting for and why should we be satisfied with anything less?

If we walk outside to enjoy the sun, we don't first stop and stare in reverent awe of the door.

[cube]

But, that's not saying that everyone's door is easy to open! My door weighs about 500 pounds and I want to make it lighter. I get miffed   by people who look only at their 2 ounce doors and tell me that my door is easy to open.

[Nay]

LOL..I'm getting dizzy.[]

It's not my fault your door weighs 500 pounds and mine doesn't..Maybe you just THINK it weights that much because you are frustrated that you can't project on a dime like Spectral?  Reaching for such heights at the beginning can be a downer no doubt!

Next time you sit, lie down, whatever technique you use to relax and meditate, think positive.

Say over and over, I'm out of my body, I'm out of my body and BELIEVE IT ..maybe that will help make that door weigh a bit less.[^]

Nay

[thelou]

Sorry if my post is a bit long, there is three pages for me to catch up on, with many people to comment on. Lol

Manix wrote,

quote:A conversation with Self>
<Me: Look! I think I see the next rung!>
<Self: Really? Where?>
<Me: It's RIGHT there you idiot. RIGHT THERE.>
<Self: No it isn't.>
<Me: Yes it IS. Are you blind?>
<Self: No.>
<Me: Then what's the problem?>
<Self: Your in my way

I laughed out loud that was so funny, then I got your point, that sometimes something that can be easy is made hard because we get in our own way.  Very deep.  I have a collection of quotes that I have collected over the years by the greatest artists of our time.  I had to put that one in with the rest.  Thanks.

Mactombs wrote,

quote:What I am interested in, however, is this "easy as you think it is". This is an oversimplification which I feel cheats those who do have a hard time.

I'd imagine that after you've been successful, it will have seemed as easy and natural as anything can be (if everyone project while they're asleep, this would seem especially true). However, getting to the point where something becomes as easy as you want it to be isn't easy. For some people it's very difficult.

I would like to share a little bit here.  It seems most people, MYSELF INCLUDED measure easy or hard by the length of time something takes.  For example when I was younger, (much) I spent 2-4 hours a day in the gym.  Over time I became a competition class weight lifter with a 48" chest that could bench press 320 lbs easily.  So to me lifting that much weight was easy.[^]  

Someone says yeah but it took you a long time to get there and it was hard work.

No it was not hard, but it did take time.  It took years of practice daily.  But it was not hard at all.  Any one can lift a weight that is not real heavy.  All I did was lift weights that were not real heavy over and over again for years.  That in itself is not hard, just time consuming.  So please do not get difficult, and may take some time confused.  Learning to AP is not hard or difficult.  But it takes time.  

When I first started trying to project, and did not have the results I wanted right away I felt this is hard.[!]  But in the face of being to hard and giving up, I just kept on practicing.   Over time you exercise your mental muscles and learn how to AP.  This is the point I am trying to make.  You literally have to develop the parts of the brain that enable us to be aware that we are projecting.  This is not hard, it just takes time.[B)]

There is no way I could have bench pressed 320 the first day I went to the gym.  And I did not AP the first time I tried.[:I]

Manix wrote,

quote:You wouldn't happen to have any hints on how to focus out of the physical do you? I'm one of those people who can't sit still if they tried. So, naturally every single physical sensation is like a fly buzzing circles around my head. I let it annoy me and am not sure how to get past it. An itch that needs scratching, a twitching muscle, a nervous tick, too hot, too cold, oh the how the list rolls on! How do you ignore it all?

OH BOY CAN I RELATE TO THAT IMPOSSIBLE TASK!!  Then someone taught me a simple trick.  Say you have an itch.  You want to ignore it, so it starts to itch more!  Every time!  AAAAGGGGGHHHHHH[}:)][}:)]

No matter what, like your life depends on it don't itch!  But trust me it will get worse, the IT WILL GET WORSE![}:)]  But resist with all your might, don't itch!  Then all of a sudden it will just disappear![]   I swear it will just go away.  Each and every time you do this it will not get as intense, and IT WILL GO AWAY FASTER AND EASIER, I PROMISE.[]

But, my friend, the fact that you are experiencing those things is a sign that you are in the right direction.


Nay I see that you changed your sig., to include the word sperm instead of swimmer, how come?   I thought it was funnier than heck.

[Phong]

This may sound odd, like I'm in la-la land, but I don't see anything as easy or difficult. Both are illusory concepts, or incomplete ones at best. Instead actions are either synchronized with my underlying intentions or in a state of disharmony. If you lie down to sleep, and you haven't finished your work for the day, sleeping is going to be "difficult" because your actions aren't harmonized with your intent - not because you lack the capacity to sleep, aren't skilled at sleeping, or lack knowledgeable experience, etc.

I once felt, "geez, I can't project whenever I want, I must really be dumb, for either not knowing how to do it or not knowing the intentions of my own soul." Well, that's silly. I had experienced natural projections before, and wouldn't accept the possibility of such a self-defeating caged existence.

We seem to have adopted a notion that if we let go our grasp of the localized reasoning part of ourselves, we'll instantly go crazy. Why, reasoning separates from animals, it makes us who we are, doesn't it? Well, then what separates us from computers? Instead of functioning with one consciousness, we divide it, assigning the rational mind as higher, guardian of knowledge, the ultimate decision maker, and so forth, so that the nonrational part of ourselves is lesser, inferior, uneducated and lost without the rational.

This idea, ultimately, that we are made up of two sides that are opposing and conflict with one another, is completely illusory. You are neither the rational mind nor are you an untamed animal. Your mind is not a computer that you use nor is your subconscious a beast to tame. You are a bold and fantastic hybrid of chaos and machine, unified together as a playful and creative god. You do not snap your fingers to complete a task, you entertain your way through it. It's a challenge which invigorates you. Learning the moves to complete it is like learning a dance.

An astral realm is an undiscovered country. Widen your scope, abandon your narrowness, and explore.

[Nay]

Whaaaaaaat?  I didn't change my sig from swimmer to sperm..it has always said sperm..[:I] hmmmmmmm..very curious.[]

I like your post, good analogy..[] But now people will yell foul because it takes too long..LOL

Nay []

Edit: I should have mentioned about the cobweb thingys...lol  Yes, that is exactly it, you just really hang in there, and it can get really distracting..but you build up that tolerence as time goes on, so scratching won't hurt too much at first.  You will actually find yourself, least I did, trying to see how much of it I could take before caving in..[:I]  You hit it on the nail when you said.."Then all of a sudden it will just disappear! [] I swear it will just go away."  sooo true..[^]

[Phong]

Well, what are you gonna do when you get there? More exploring. Use this time to get good at it. Who knows what you'll find?

[BlackBox]

Good analogy Phong.

I, for one, have a clearer outlook because of your thoughts in this thread.

Grazie.