LD or AP?

[apsinvo]

Hello friends,

After much time I am still very much confused between AP (Astral Projection) and LD (Lucid Dreaming). Some conflicting distinctions that I've heard;

1. Lucid Dreaming is a (Frank) Focus 2 experience, whereas Astral Projection is a (Frank) Focus 3 experience.

2. Lucid Dreaming is when you find yourself consciously aware that you are dreaming inside a dream. Astral Projection is where you step out of your body. What does this make Phasing then?

Anyway, that aside, I'm very sure I'm LDing. I can LD almost every night (occasionally with the use of GALANTAMIND). Most often, I have the classic LD. I'm dreaming vividly, something is sufficiently 'screwey' in the dream, I ask myself whether or not I'm dreaming, all of a sudden I'm lucid. I'm inside my dream, in control to varying degrees, usually with enough consciousness from reality to know what day/time it is, various things I planned to do in my next LD, etc, etc.

Now twice, I have a stranger experience, where I am perhaps closer to waking and in a very very light sleep. I am aware of my physical body and the fact it is sleeping in my bed, but I can not 'see it' or step into/out of it. It's more of one of those bilocation things where I'm switching between my bed, and an unrelated location in my LD. When I'm in the LD, I realise I'm sleeping in bed, and when I'm half sleeping in my bed, I realize I'm trying to have an LD.

Does this make sense?? Thanks!

[Pauli2]

1. Lucid Dreaming is a (Frank) Focus 2 experience, whereas Astral Projection is a (Frank) Focus 3 experience.

I think that when people say F 2 oC, they sometimes mean F 22, as F 2 oC is an umbrella concept, including F 15 (connected to F 27) and F 12 (used for example to travel to aliens within our physical universe, as described by Rosalind McKnight or Monroe in his Far Journeys, chapter 3 etc).

So please, state _what_ F 2 oC you mean.

[Xanth]

Hello friends,

After much time I am still very much confused between AP (Astral Projection) and LD (Lucid Dreaming). Some conflicting distinctions that I've heard;

1. Lucid Dreaming is a (Frank) Focus 2 experience, whereas Astral Projection is a (Frank) Focus 3 experience.


2. Lucid Dreaming is when you find yourself consciously aware that you are dreaming inside a dream. Astral Projection is where you step out of your body. What does this make Phasing then?

Anyway, that aside, I'm very sure I'm LDing. I can LD almost every night (occasionally with the use of GALANTAMIND). Most often, I have the classic LD. I'm dreaming vividly, something is sufficiently 'screwey' in the dream, I ask myself whether or not I'm dreaming, all of a sudden I'm lucid. I'm inside my dream, in control to varying degrees, usually with enough consciousness from reality to know what day/time it is, various things I planned to do in my next LD, etc, etc.

Now twice, I have a stranger experience, where I am perhaps closer to waking and in a very very light sleep. I am aware of my physical body and the fact it is sleeping in my bed, but I can not 'see it' or step into/out of it. It's more of one of those bilocation things where I'm switching between my bed, and an unrelated location in my LD. When I'm in the LD, I realise I'm sleeping in bed, and when I'm half sleeping in my bed, I realize I'm trying to have an LD.

Does this make sense?? Thanks!

Your confusion is one of normality. 

In my opinion, dreams, lucid dreams and astral projections are all the same experience.  They're all what I like to call "non-physical experiences".  What separates them is how consciously aware you are "during" the experience in question.

What's important to realize is that when you say you're "inside your dream"... you're actually in the astral, or as I call it the "non-physical".  All experiences that occur while you're sleeping are actually non-physical experiences.

Phasing is just a way to train yourself to drop "inside your dream", while you remain completely conscious and retaining what I call your "waking awareness". 

To explain some of the basic concepts and ideas of Phasing, my phasing primer might be of some assistance to you: 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/xanth18/Phasing_Primer.pdf

In the end though, don't worry about "Focus 'this'" or "Focus 'that'".  Just aim to have experiences.  That's the most important thing. 

[Pauli2]

After much time I am still very much confused between AP (Astral Projection) and LD (Lucid Dreaming).

. . .

Now twice, I have a stranger experience, where I am perhaps closer to waking and in a very very light sleep. I am aware of my physical body and the fact it is sleeping in my bed, but I can not 'see it' or step into/out of it. It's more of one of those bilocation things where I'm switching between my bed, and an unrelated location in my LD. When I'm in the LD, I realise I'm sleeping in bed, and when I'm half sleeping in my bed, I realize I'm trying to have an LD.

I would like to refer to Buhlman. He uses two concepts Out-of-Body-Experience (OBE) and Lucid-Dream (LD), the first concepts might not be what you look for.

But...

Buhlman claims that you can convert an LD into an OBE, by various techniques discussed in his books. One important technique is from an LD to repeatedly state "Awareness now!", "Awareness now!", "Awareness now!", etc, until the LD becomes replaced by the RTZ.

It is important to repeat the phrase, maintain lucidity and, perhaps wait between turns as your surroundings fade away and become replaced by new, more C-1 looking environments, if you want to go for the RTZ. You may perhaps also need to spin-around to stay out, in order to, with Buhlman's words: "...avoid slamming back into your body". Once OBE I guess you're able to find methods to go from RTZ to other Focus Levels.

[djed]

I would tend to agree with Xanth, in that the Lucid dream state is the same as Astral projection, its just the way you got to a LD is from your dream, just suddenly knowing you are dreaming and have volition: whereas AP you have entered the astral plain directly by a trance state or other method. In OOBE you first exit to the Real Time zone or etheric plain.
cheers djed

[djed]

On second thoughts I think there is a different 'feel' in OOBE, I feel more serious, and interact with more people: in LD it is more lighthearted and just enjoying flying around. But that might be just me.
Cheers djed 

[Xanth]

On second thoughts I think there is a different 'feel' in OOBE, I feel more serious, and interact with more people: in LD it is more lighthearted and just enjoying flying around. But that might be just me.
Cheers djed 

I believe there's a reason for that... and that reason lies in how consciously aware you are during the experience.
Which, ironically, is also how I categorize the experiences.

Having "full" awareness of who and what you are really are while all of it is going on makes a HUGE difference in the experience itself.  At least, that's my opinion.