whats to say that our obe's in waking state or from the rem is nothing more then lucid dream?
i've been experiencing APs for around 17yrs now. always, the question arises about lucid dream (stephen laberge) and astral projection (robert bruce and others). my question to fire out here is why don't these practitioners like bruce, frank, bulham, swann set themselves up into a dream lab with stephen laberge and run the tests and see what unfolds?.
i know there's been swann being able to view other rooms while projecting or remote viewing. - why can't today's greats come forward and give it the challenge?
don't get me wrong - i do support astral projection, nde's and its reality,
tvos
Here's a question for you: what do you believe a dream is?
Draege,
I believe there are different levels of consciousness from a dream to a oobe state. When recently listening to a audio interview by Stephen Laberge he states that we enter the lucid dream from rem or awakening state. The interesting part is that from the awakening state we feel the vibrations, sleep paralysis caused by a immobilized order from a nerve center in the lower brain.
Here's a excellent extract from Laberge's Sleep Paralysis
http://www.lucidity.com/paralysis.txt. My biggest question would be
can the vibrations be measured during the sleep paralysis?
The one problem that I do have with Stephen is that he can't count for the number of people that have had validations with oobe's, nde's. If in the NDE the person has no brain activity, no blood flow and still are able to validate their consciousness while the physical brain/body has flat lined, I think its a good indication of physical after-life survival.
I would really like to research more into the findings of these scientific studies on validation of remote viewing and oobe.
Tvos
TVOS, you are able to project a lot :) Did you ever try to contact a deceased person ? Like the retrievals from Bruce Moen ?
I mean, projecting every week, didn't you get any chance to confirm to yourself that you are really leaving your body (or focusing outside) ?
One thing that comes to my mind is, instead of trying to check out something visual, doing it with an audio tape ... for example, you can record a permanent message (of course, you shouldn't know what it says) and while leaving the body, see if you can hear the correct message... Do you think sounds are easier than visuals ?
Thanks,
Magic.
Magicmac2000,
Yes I am but also a very hard worker towards this and disciplined.
I've been executing the card experiments and not always validation is there, but found out from this experiment that other elements have given me validation when not trying.
You are correct about contact with my grandmother. My mom has always been telling me if I ever make contact and bring back some validation then she will believe. This in which is my next case study with ap and reaching higher realms hoping to find my grandmother that I never knew along with meeting my other relatives that have passed.
I do like what you said about the audio experiment - that's is definitely a good idea and method. I have over 10,000 mp3's - why not put them on shuffle.
Tvos
Hmmm... I don't see how a shuffle will help with this experiment. How will you know which song was playing after you wake up ? I mean, maybe you hear the correct song and instead of going back to your body immediately, you can black out ending up confused about which song was playing...
I think a good one will be to record an MP3 (I can do it for you) with a length of about ... 15 minutes (of course, replay and replay when finished).
The first 30 seconds will be with a simple message saying something like:
"This message is in order to test audio volume, in 30 seconds the real message will start. Correct the volume and go away!!"...
Then, the real message (you shouldn't' hear it before, of course) can be something like this:
"World peace ... World peace ... World peace ... World peace..." repeating it over and over for the next 15 minutes. The only thing that might happen (unlikely) is that when you are out of your body you may hear the the Intro Message, but you will have to wait and stay focused only 30 seconds to hear the real one ... So, there's always 14 minutes and half of "Good information" and just 30 seconds of the intro message...
Get it ? If you wanna do it, I can prepare it for you :) Maybe we can end up with something useful.
This idea came to my mind because of your post saying that you could hear your dog barking. Also, from another guy (sorry, don't remember who) who said that he could hear his air conditioner when he was out...
Makes sense ?
One more thing: even if we can validate that experience, it won't mean that there is an AfterLife. The only way -at least for me- to prove the AfterLife is contacting a deceased one and bringing something that you couldn't possibly know. If you can contact your Grandma and verify that ... pufff... what can I say ? No need for the MP3 in that case :)
Cheers and thanks for being at service of all us. You are a lucky (hard worker) objective guy that projects a lot being able to verify these experiences. I'm doing what I can, but I still can't project at will :(
Magic.
[devils advocate} there come the issue of creating this sound of the recording in your mind. Sure you may hear the recording but whos to say you didnt create it in your mind and its just a coincidence????? [/devils advocate}
I am not sure how valid this experiment is given the fact that there are NO LIMITS once OBE.
An other idea: Let somebody place a real 3D Object (Hammer, Stone, Needle, Bark, etc) somewhere where you can check it out while out of Body. I wonder if there is a higher success rate when using the tactile sense.
knightlight: to be honest, if he can "guess" the message, I won't think it will be coincidence. What's the difference between writing a few random words on a paper and a few random words recorded ? Come on :) Imagine this type of message: "...red green blue..." How in the world there will be a coincidence ? ... "...birds can speak..." ... man, how he will find out ? But you are right, there is a chance of coincidence so we can make this test two times in a row. Do you agree ? If 100% accuracy, I think that's it.
Tombo: sounds like a good idea also :) Let's see what our "experimenter" says. Maybe he already did something like that.
a friend of mine that I've been working with on partner exploration and various experiments suggested running a computer program that would generate different imagery and sound at random. the projectionist would then goto the room and verify what he/she saw on the monitor and any sound related. this would be something that would have to be at least 100 feet away so that you wouldn't hear the sound close by.
another important facet about validation is after awhile you spend massive amounts of energy for these experiments you soon to realize that your missing out on alot more by the confines of your localized area.
not that i am saying validation isn't important and is a a waste of time, but after while i could be experiencing higher level projections then keeping up with a card experiment. too much validation can make one go crazy!
tvos
TVOS: in case you want me to create a few MP3 in order to do the validation, let me know. On the other side, if you end up validating the experience with any other method, I know you will post it...
Good luck and I promise as soon I'm able to project at will, I will start a serious study like yours in order to validate.
Thanks a lot for your efforts,
Magic.
Magicmac2000,
Sure why not.. lets give it a whirl and see what comes about it. You can email me directly here in prv and I'll send the email address.
Thank You,
Tvos
Tvos:
I am wondering if you were actually able to contact your grandmother, and what led you to believe that it was actually her, and not just an imaginary manifestation of what you believe she was like? Was it something she said? Did you describe her to your mother? Or maybe just a strong feeling of lucidity, the way you can tell right now that you're awake and not dreaming?
I am curious because I too have a Grandmother in F3oC, and when I'm able to phase there, I'd like to speak to her as well.
Hotshotrobot,
I have not yet contacted my grandmother - maybe I worded incorrectly in the previous thread. I am looking to put my efforts into effect searching for my grandmother.
The only way that I can have validation is through my mom. Something that my grandmother might have had a nickname for, or a certain phrase, or describe a certain action, event, memory that I would never know of. - I think that would definitely nail the lid on validation.
Tvos
TVOS: I already sent you a PM with the instructions and URL to get the MP3. If you have any questions, let me know.
40 Seconds of Introduction + 14 Minutes of the same message over and over again.
Cheers, good luck and THANKs for trying all these things :)
Magic.
good luck tvos, cant wait to hear the results!
talk about pressure..:) - tough as it is to produce the oobe let alone to top it off with physical mechanical intervention...
i will give it a listen to tonight when i get home and see what i can do. this might take a week or could take 4months...
tvos
hahah :) Good Luck Tvos :) You are "Da Maaaaan" ...