Meet Bush in Astral world

[narfellus]

ok, i'll chime in. Blackbox, you have a laundry list of fascinating beliefs and i will not argue them, mostly because i have trouble following the implications. But that's my fault, not yours. Indeed, the STO, STS makes perfect sense, and is very likely. As for BUSH being contacted or not, which was the thread topic, i have found that my own beliefs can explain this as well, and without the same verbage you use. Now, the end result will probably be the same, which is cool, because we can incorporate our own beliefs that we individually feel to be true and God-given, without need to contradict each other.

Praying for others is an honored human tradition. Get enough people focusing their thoughts and words in one direction and miracles happen. I'm sure there are thousands if not millions praying world wide for President Bush to make the right decision.

Potential Snags: Our world is rising toward a spiritual evolution, and Bush's assault on Iraq, and the terrorism and all of the excrement involved is part of it. To change his mind might somehow CHANGE something that might be for the better. We never really know until later. Furthermore, i don't think Bush has much of an attachment to his Higher Self. He shows it in his words, but mostly in actions. He, like most people, are puppets of the World. They pull his strings, he flops his arms and launches wars. When Bush was originally in Spirit Form he and others decided that this was the direction he wanted to take. His BAD decisions can ultimately cause many others to make GOOD decisions that can strengthen them spiritually. Yes, things look bad from a material and earthly perspective, but guys, gals, this is a big illusion of impeccable quality.

As to entering Bush's dreams and encouraging him to take it easy, sure, give it a shot, i think it is a fascinating idea. Here's the catch, and i already mentioned it: Bush is not in contact with his higher Self: it's not his fault, it's normal. Influencing in dreams must mean firstly that he REMEMBERS his dream, or understands the implications, neither of which is likely to happen. Never hurts to try though.

[Stillwater]

quote:Yes, this indicates MANY things. Evolution is only one attempt of trying to find the 'whys'.

It may indicate genetic-engineering of life. Like if you try to compare automobiles with airplanes. Except it is not mechanical but organic engineering in our case.

But evolution is a seemingly valid explanation. Is it so difficult to fathom that our DNA, being as unstable and prone to mutation as it already is, might have diverged from its previous state the little bit required to create man from other creatures of quite silmilar makeup? If that was not the case, than how did regional races come into being?

But as was stated by Narfellus, it is ultimately irrelavent how we view the world, as long as our views don't harm others, and they lead to our own personal advancement. You have been patient and courtious,
and I thank you.

You say Krishna; I say Buddha. You say creator; I say God. Same thing in the end.

Thank you,
Stillwater

[kiauma]

quote:You say Krishna; I say Buddha. You say creator; I say God. Same thing in the end.

That's the coolest thing said yet.

Also as StillWater pointed out, there is less than 2% difference between our DNA and chimpanzees.  At bottom, our hereditary relation to monkeys is a physical FACT that has been rigorously studied and is completely verifiable, with evidence that you can hold in your hands and directly correlate with a tremendous amount of other supporting evidence.  Are your theories that strong BlackBox?

Now, metaphorically or even spiritually there may be a basis to your beliefs.  I can accept that, however let me take your 'everything is a duality' paradigm, which I also have no problem with, a step further - and that is that there is your Duality paradigm, and then there are other paradigms - complexities beyond the simple either/or mentality of Duality.   For example, since Duality requires complimentary pairs (love/hate, good/evil), one part of which cannot exist without the other, well then they are really not seperate at all, are they?

Duality is an illusion created for the experience of the tension between opposites.  It is, however, only one method of experience.

Also, what Oneness teaches is that true STS is also STO, and vice versa.

[BlackBox]

The details of my theories reside in the scientists of those websites that get into it deeper.

But I'm compelled to write on with my views.

The funny thing is, about a year or so ago, I would respond to these theories in the same fashion as you two do. I mean, I grew up learning the same thing, and believe me it was difficult at first to allow other theories to make sense.

quote:This is where the "weirdness" begins to arise... How can you argue this? Is it not the case that chimpanzes share 98% of our genetic code? Something is queer here... What is so strange about that? If we were any more similar, we would just about be chimpanzes! Especially considering that we share less than 10% of our DNA with other creatures...

It's the same thing as comparing airplanes to automobiles and that the latter evolved from the former.

I feel like if I go any further in my explanation, it'll all just sound like rubbish, which is saddening to watch, especially when you see that some people are interested with further examination/proof/support. It gets pretty 'out-there' and hard-to-believe, but it is no different than how people ridiculed those who came in with the world is 'round' theory. Or the Jesus and his early Gnostic Christians who gave their theories to the people of their realm. The Romans considered their teachings a 'superstition'.

I wont be able to give you a better theory than the evolutionary one. This is because society has built a pretty solid foundation on us believing that, so you have an enormous quantity of support for that theory. The great libraries that have been burnt away could have supported, perhaps, these theories, but that is life I guess.

quote:I'm sure there are thousands if not millions praying world wide for President Bush to make the right decision.

First thing you have to do when you allow these theories to exist is:

The power-structure is visible to us at a level where it is NOT important. At this level of visibility, where we can observe these affairs on the news is just a form of distraction/divertion away from the real occurences in the world. Imagine a pyramid of 'the-powers-that-be' and imagine the idea that our top-politicians are not even named on it. They are puppets, part of a big-play, to make us thing we live in a democracy. What did the Romans do to control their people? Feed them and entertain them. That's all you have to do to control a populace. The majority are programmed more than they are free-thinkers. The majority do not have the ability to even think a creative thought. They have strobe-lights controlling them with frequency emitions that they have no idea even exists. The German's call it "kitsch", which is what this level of distraction is. Imagine TRUTH being a fire. Imagine piles ontop of piles of wood that symbolizes EVERYTHING that veils the truth in LAYERS. Then imagine the smoke that is created that leads in multiple directions AWAY from the FIRE, the truth. The majority of the populace only see the SMOKE. The smoke consists of everything you can imagine, from video games to Britney Spears, from ABC, NBC, CNN to the democratic and republican parties. It is all smoke. None of it is real.

So you see, if one believes the above, how pointless it is to say that some are praying for Bush to make the right decision. His decision is not his own. He is a puppet and he has strings. Pinacchio doesn't exist I'm afraid, and a puppet has no mind of his own. He is manipulated in totality.

quote:Duality is an illusion created for the experience of the tension between opposites. It is, however, only one method of experience.

It is indeed an illusion. But can you truly say that through your perception? In physical-reality, many illusions exist. But only to those who percieve outside of it. You are in a matter-converting organic-mechanism, so you can only theorize that it is an illusion.

[Stillwater]

quote:The power-structure is visible to us at a level where it is NOT important. At this level of visibility, where we can observe these affairs on the news is just a form of distraction/divertion away from the real occurences in the world. Imagine a pyramid of 'the-powers-that-be' and imagine the idea that our top-politicians are not even named on it. They are puppets, part of a big-play, to make us thing we live in a democracy. What did the Romans do to control their people? Feed them and entertain them. That's all you have to do to control a populace. The majority are programmed more than they are free-thinkers. The majority do not have the ability to even think a creative thought. They have strobe-lights controlling them with frequency emitions that they have no idea even exists. The German's call it "kitsch", which is what this level of distraction is. Imagine TRUTH being a fire. Imagine piles ontop of piles of wood that symbolizes EVERYTHING that veils the truth in LAYERS. Then imagine the smoke that is created that leads in multiple directions AWAY from the FIRE, the truth. The majority of the populace only see the SMOKE. The smoke consists of everything you can imagine, from video games to Britney Spears, from ABC, NBC, CNN to the democratic and republican parties. It is all smoke. None of it is real.

Now this idea is quite argualbe. Society does function in a similar capacity to what you describe, and many more of us than most would admit are caught up in this cycle of desire and contentment.

The only real thing which I was questioning is the division idea, and this DNA business. These two concepts appear to form pillars of your belief system, and I do not openly deny them. It is simply that I see no basis for their foundation, and the body of evidence counters them, as you have so pointed out. I do not state that if there were to be some logical justification to all of this, that your ideas wouldn't seem viable in ways, but only that you have presented nothing to support your case. Perhaps the reasoning is far-fetched, but as it stands now, we have nothing to judge by.

Even if it were the case that the proof was ridiculous to me, I would not say it was impossible, only that you failed to convince me.

But I have alredy said that your belief cannot be utterly crass if it generates some positive progress. All we can really do as ignorant beings is try to move foward, no?

I have no vendetta, only skepticism.

Thank you,
Stillwater

[narfellus]

I think Blackboxes references to smoke and illusion are very Toltec-ish, which is a way of thinking that i am rather fond of, not that i agree with everything he says. i find this discussion interesting because i THINK we agree on the basis of Duality, a concept that most people fight at first because it is so foreign (and ultimately so appealing to me because i don't think a human could have thought of it). As for DNA changes, well, i've read so many theories about that, i really have no idea. What i DO believe is that our species didn't evolve naturally without help. We're too streamlined and self conscious.

[BlackBox]

Fair enough! []

Then we will have to wait and see. The next 8-years will be eventful and will no-doubt rise some real nicely-sized chunks of validation for such theories.

I have nothing but respect for someone who speaks diplomatically and humbly, and you obviously have your mind-open to such things, so all we have to do is wait and see.

Namaste.

[kiauma]

I think this is very revealling of the dynamics and depths of spiritual evolution.

In order to see beyond the wheel of emotional suffering and sating, from greed, anger, lust, hate, and needy love, one must understand the forces of light and dark, good and evil, and the whole structure of Duality.  In order to see the false dichotomy of Duality one must realize how one cannot exist without the other.  Always, the evolution is toward integration and oneness - emotionally, intellectually, spiritually.

Or so I see it.

[Stillwater]

quote:Then we will have to wait and see. The next 8-years will be eventful and will no-doubt rise some real nicely-sized chunks of validation for such theories.

Yes... We shall all see. I have heard countless theories about this moment in time, and I am eager myself to see just what might transpire, if anything . It shall be a time of explanations, or one might so conjecture, from all the hubbub that has surfaced as of late.

Thank you,
Stillwater

[Phong]

About 6 or 7 years ago, long before I had ever heard of the 2012 mayan calendar stuff, I used my friends magic 8-ball to narrow down the year of my death. "Will I live past 20? Will I make it past 30?" and so forth were the questions, and it ended with the prediction that I would not make it past my 29th birthday. Which is... dunh dunh dunnhh

June 27, 2012

"This summer, signs will point to yes"

[Edit: I always left open the possibility I would off myself before then. I mean, you can't trust oracles with that breed of fatalism.]

[kiauma]

And that, my friends, is the very first casualty of the war of 2012.


You used a magic 8-ball? [?][8][?]

[BlackBox]

quote:June 27, 2012

Phong, that's terrible. You're going to die on my birthday?

That's so inconsiderate.

[kiauma]

Cancer.  Shoulda known. [][]

[BlackBox]

Kind of odd that Phong decides to bring up his doomsday message on this particular thread, with the date of my birthday...

Sychronicities and coincidences are going to blow up my head one day.

[Phong]

Well, that's just the day I won't be able to live beyond, I could die a few days before then. [|)]

That's great that we have the same birthday, BB. It's coming up real soon! Too bad it's a Sunday this year. I forgot we had one of these ([8]) in the forum, kiauma! I should throw it around more often...

[BlackBox]

Spiderman shares our birthday (Toby Maguire).

Try this, it's pretty fun and may shed light if you haven't done a dreamspell reading before. http://www.tortuga.com/findkin/findday.cfm

I'm a "White Lunar Dog"...or "White Solar Dog" at my 20th birthday.

[^]

[kiauma]

Cosmic Moon Day 2

Harmonic 58 : Spectral Process
Formulate Free Will of Liberation

Kin 231 : Blue Planetary Monkey
I Perfect in order to Play
Producing Illusion
I seal the Process of Magic
With the Planetary tone of Manifestation
I am guided by the power of Self-generation


Wow!  This is for my birthday (will be my 40th), which is right next to your birthday BlackBox.  []  

I think that's pretty right-on for where I'm at right now.

[Stillwater]

It seems that my next birthday (Oct. 20, 2004) is represented by the serpent, who "channels to live"...

Uh-huh...

Your call...[]

Thank you,
Stillwater

[Phong]

Oh yeah, I saw explora post this over at Sorex, and I'm a red magnetic serpent - which is total BS.

Survivor? I have absolutely no will to survive, whatsoever. I have half the mind to let the suffering die, for surely they'll go to a better place. Magnetic tone of purpose? I have no purpose, and I've never felt any, and not for lack of being aware.

It's funny because these things are so vague and likely to intrigue some, but I've never found one so dead wrong. Maybe I have my birthday wrong? [?]

[Edit: Aren't you supposed to put the year you were born?]

[kiauma]

Well guys, I really do not know what to tell you on your own readings, but I for one think it's a great link!

Thanks BlackBox.  []

[BlackBox]

Ya, the tutorial function is pretty neat.

I agree, Phong, that the descriptions are a little hard to follow and quite vague, however the dreamspell calendar is probably more complicated than any other astrological method I've ever come across, so try to not judge until you study some more, my fellow cancer.

[narfellus]

yes, nice topic guys. We all believe pretty much the same thing spiritually, with some deviations. As for 2012, i only heard about that a few weeks ago, but it seems...well, very possible. I also heard about an american civil revolution next year from somewhere, and all i can think of is: BUSH/DRAFT/BUSH/DRAFT.

Man oh man, talk about rats fleeing a sinking ship. One of my doctors already said she was going to send her kid to another country if that happened.

heh, that's pretty funny about your birthdays though...[:O]

[Stillwater]

American civil revolution? That is a new one to me. Civil as in within single country, or as in without bloodshed?

Fill me in...

Thanl you,
Stillwater

[kiauma]

It all depends on the next election.  If Bush (spits after saying the name) is reelected, it will be soon after that the conflicting agendas of his administration and America's younger generations become apparent.

All hell could very well break loose.

[narfellus]

Just what i heard guys, but it is logical. I don't think the majority of this country and their youth want to fight Bush's oil war and mid-east agenda. The Draft report i read would accrue from ages 18-26, and no college excuse. Current semesters would finish and then ship out of country, men and women with equal rights. Yay.
It's been such a long time since a draft happened that our country would really really fight against it. Hell, i would too and i'm 31 with no kids. It's bulls**t, just violence propogating violence. IF i can find the weblink i'll post it, it described the draft process in detail (not that it was set in stone, but HOW it would play out)