First off, please describe what you understand as being visualization? That's a trick question but without the contrast of your own thining it's difficult to explain what it is.
Two quotes that illustrate your problem and the answer to visualization:
quote:
I try to move all my concentration
quote:
and there is always that thought saying: 'I have to forget my body
When you "try" and when you "have to" is where things get derailed.
I'll wait for the reply to my question before saying anything more.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
well, for me visualization is just what it says.. To visualize something
like the rope method.. visualize that I climb a rope..
just to picture something in one's mind's eye
I hope you understand what I mean
So you're trying to 'see' the image of a rope?
Have you ever had a pet? A boat? A place where you like to go?
Now think about that pet/boat/place? Can you recall what it looks like? The memory if colour? Touch? Smell? Walk around the place or withthe pet. Imagine doing something at the favourite place.
Can you recall the taste of coffee and pancakes with strawberry jam?
You are now visualizing. Seeing an image is not required.
2cents & L&L
jouni
Hi MaDroX,
Just a quick thought and I will allow the experts to give you feedback on methods etc.
In my mind what you are talking about seems to be purely an attention issue. Can you for instance – concentrate on a favourite TV program or say a beloved song if it played on the radio, even say while driving? Bet you can!!! In simple terms we can all multi task and seem to hold one aspect of our focus on say a primary issue.
Hypnotists e.g. Paul McKenna (who is only using psychological reference anyway) explained something like: we are all shifting our attention to whatever catches our interest at any time, and that each of these items of focus might be considered like say an individual altered state.
So applying this to say to one's intention to have an OBE – although our focus is on the task at hand we can still carry out numerous other tasks. The most obvious been the ability of autonomous brain/body functions. So in my limited experience of self induced projection I noticed that – yes, while I was extremely body focused I was at the same time more focused on the object of say being X distance from the body. e.g. when attempting to use the rope, ladder or climbing stairs techniques/visualization.
Think I am trying to say don't worry about having a completely singular focus! The goal will override the apparent barrier in other words.
Not sure if this helps?
Stephen
P.S. Looks like we all replied at almost the same time [:)] LOL
Oh I forgot something about moving concentration.
You can't move it. It is where you decide it is.
If you have several thoughts in your mind and you try to banish them all then your concentration is all over the place, ie. in each thought.
If you just observe the thought then your concentration is in one single place, the observation.
2cents & L&L
jouni
Apparently we did.
To add to your reply: Forget your body, it does wha<t it will when you sleep and dream and you nevertheless dream. Let it do what it does, you are not your body.
In order to visualize better you need to devolp a photographic memory of some degree. Try blinking fast so that the room is temorarly black.
From there try to picture what the room looked like before. Then keep you eyes closed longer and longer. Eventually you will be able to project that way.
If you can visualise a room, the dreams should come as well.
When you just had waked up from a dream try to feel yourself rubbing a wall from the dream or a wall in your home outside of your bedroom. You should substitue the feeling of your sumberling body with your phantom beside the wall, by vigorously rubbing and palpating the wall and other surfaces on your way to a point when you start to wonder, perhaps it's more than just pretending. Now you can turn your vision on by simply focusing on your palm as if you would try to see it through your closed eyelids. Move your palm just before your eyes continously focusing on it until its become visible - first like a yellow-whiteish blob, then followed by the room itself within couple of seconds. Anchor yourself to the dream by grabbing objects around you then you're ready to go.
Hi MaDroX,
about the Interrupted Sleep Technique:
1) Go to bed at say 9 or 10 pm
2) Set alarm to awaken you after 4 hours sleep
3) Get out of bed and find something to do (e.g. watch tv, work at computer, etc.)
4) After 1 hour go back to bed
5) Relax and get comfortable. Once positioned do not move under any circumstances since this will discourage the vibes and keep you in the physical.
Thats pretty much it. If you're really interested in this technique I recommend reading Albert Taylor's book 'Soul Traveller' which you can find on Amazon.
Good luck!
Hi MadroX, you wrote
quote:
I can't really visualize, concentrate and so on
I used to have the exact same problem, so I can relate. It can be very frustrating. Then about 8-9 years ago I read this book and within hours I had slight results, and within days had incredible results. Here is what the book taught.
Get a pin, like those round plastic ones that people pin papers to a bulletin board, or something small like that, something that can form a dot on the wall. Make it a contrasting color to the wall opposite your favorite chair, or couch that you like to sit at. Someplace where you are comfortable sitting. I used both red and black pins. Both worked equally well.
Sit in your chair in a comfortable position and find a spot on the wall directly across from you that is easy for you to stare at. Put the pin, or what ever else you decide to use in that exact same spot.
This is why it works you are going to stare at it, and it does not matter what kind of thoughts you are having. Thoughts do not matter. Because it is easier to train our eyes than our thinking brain. Just stare at that dot. When your eyes drift off, no big deal just start to stare at the dot again. Within just a few minutes you will easily discover that your ability to stare at the dot gets longer and longer each time your eyes drift away.
Here is your goal to stare at the dot for at least a minute or longer without blinking. At first your eyes water and burn a little. But after a while that goes away and you are easily able to keep staring. Like when we would have staring contests as a kid. I always won those because I was to stubborn to give in to something so small as a little discomfort. So if at first this is hard, just be to stubborn to give in to a little pain.
After a while you will be able to stare for a couple of minutes. Note however that your eyes will start to get dry. I recommend holding them closed for several minutes after you do this so that the do not become damaged. Or perhaps visine. Use your own best judgement. I got up to over 3 minutes without blinking.
And like bang the next thing you will discover all by your self is that your thoughts automatically start getting less and less and eventually stop coming all to gether.
Here is what happens psychologically. When you are trying to train your mind to stop thinking it resists. And you keep having intrusive thoughts. When you train your eyes to stare for long periods your brain starts focusing on that. Once the brain starts learning to focus on only one thing at a time it automatically stops having those other thoughts because it is learning how to focus.
After you master that, it is VERY easy to master shutting off all the intrusive thoughts.
Hope that helps.
Thelou
P.S. I recently started doing this exercise again because it has been many years since then.
i find that most people have trouble visualizing because they expect to see something behind their closed eyes. REMEMBER you are not trying to create an image that you can see with your eyes. you have to picture what something would look like if you WERE seeing it with your eyes. IE say you are visualizing the rope method. do not expect to see the rope or your hands right away (you will eventually see awareness hands after you get better at it but thats a different topic) think about what it would feel like to climb the rope. the texture of the rope on your hands. the feeling of pulling yourself up. putting your other hand on top of the other etc etc
hope you understand what im saying.
@nitetravler
thanks, I'll try that tonight :)
@thelou
that sounds good and actually pretty easy.. I think i'm gonna do this everyday because here where I'm sitting I have a white wall with some black dots on it.. I will just pick a bigger one and stare at it
actually I dont trust such easier methods.. But oh well, I will just do it [:)]
@mar10fl
well yeah, that's the other problem.. I can't do that neither.. If I (try to) imagine the feeling of climbing a rope.. no matter what I do, I just don't get that feeling of climbing a rope
thanks for helping me guys[:)]
Hmm, I have one more question about the interrupted sleep method:
Do you HAVE TO go to bed at 9 or 10 pm? Because I usually go to bed at midnight.. I'm just not tired enough to go to bed earlier
Then I would sleep like 4 hours and stand up at 4 am.. and go back to bed at 5 pm
So, will it still work if i go to bed at midnight?
thanks
If those are your normal hours, then yes you could, the important thing being to sleep for 4 hours straight, getting up for an hour, going back to bed, and not moving.
ok, thanks [:)]
I will post my results tomorrow
Hey guys..
Well.. My question is:
Are there any methods for people who cant really visualize or concentrate really hard?
I'm asking because I can't really visualize, concentrate and so on.. I mean, of course I can but it's not enough for having an obe .. Like I can't clear my mind.. Many methods say 'visualize, have all your concentration on what you visualize' etc.. Well, my problem is when I try to move all my concentration to that stuff I visualize there are still thoughts in my head I can't get rid of.. And there is always that thought saying: 'I have to forget my body and move all my concentration to that thing I visualize and forget everything else'
and so I will never forget about my body, never forget everything else and never move ALL my concentration to that thing I visualize and neutralize all other thoughts..
So, are there any methods for APing that work without visualizing and/or concentrating really hard and forgetting about your body and stuff?
I already know two..
1) The insomnia method .. Just go to bed and stay awake no matter what
but I always fall asleep.. And it would take hours and thats pretty exhausting..
2) Interrupted sleep method
I never tried it before but I will try it on the night from friday to saturday.. I'm not sure how it works, so could anybody please tell me if this is correct: ?
Go to bed
set alarm clock to a few hours before I usually stand up
get up and stay up for a hour
go to bed again
and now what? Just sleep?
It would be nice if somebody helped me with that interrupted sleep method.. And it would be also nice if somebody told me some more methods that don't need any concentration or something like that (if there are any)
thanks[:)]