WILL WE GO TO HELL

[rutantia]

If you really look at it from an educated, and objective point of view (extremely hard to do if you've been brought up in a particular religion, IMHO -trust me...I was there!!!), you will see various connections between Christianity and other religions of the time of Christ.  Unfortunately, I think that so much time has passed that people DO NOT really know the roots of what they are worshipping, no matter what they think.  
It seems to be alluded to here, but I would recommend taking a look at the website <www.ffrf.org>..

[rutantia]

Sorry, the link is: www.ffrf.org

[jason]

I haven't read the whole thing yet, but I did see the freedom from religion title at the top[8D].

I once read Dantes Inferno.In one part of hell their was everyone who existed before christianity came along!.you can't be serious.I'm always surprised how childish and stupid religion can be...[:O]


spirituality, on the other hand[]

[no_leaf_clover]

you mean dante's 'divine comedy'? the inferno may have been a chapter or something.. robert w. smith wrote a score for a play based on the divine comedy, and one of the movements was called 'the inferno'. it was a really morbid piece.. in the middle of the mp3 i have the instruments die down a little in their morbid melodies while all these chains are rattling and clanking. i guess they're the chain that the guys in hell are wearing? its a good mp3.. you guys should look for it []

[Nick]

I have recently been rereading Journeys Out of the Body by Robert Monroe. The first time I read the book was in the late 1970's. I mention that, only because with the passage of time and hopefully some beneficial life experience, the book may have a deeper meaning for anyone wanting to reread it at a later date.

That being said, in Chapter 8 of Journeys, entitled "cause the bible tells me so", Robert Monroe talks about biblical notions of God and afterlife versus what he encountered in his nonphysical travels.

He talks about a region of the astral, which he calls areas of Locale II as follows: "In these worlds where thoughts are not only things, but are everything, including you, your poison or perfection is of your own making. If you are a remorseless killer, you may end up in that part of Locale II where all are of the same design. This truly would be hell for such people, for there would be no innocent, defenseless victims."

He further adds, "Project this outward, and you can begin to perceive the myriad variations. Your destination in the heaven or hell of Locale II seems to be grounded completely within the framework of your deepest constant (and perhaps non-conscious) motivations, emotions, and personality drives. The most consistent and strongest of these act as your "homing" device when you enter this realm."

The concept of thought creating your reality then, which is covered in a number of different spiritual works, seems also to be evident to Monroe in his astral travels.

Very best,

[jason]

based on Nicks last statement, I would guess it means that religious fundamentalists are going to be in a sorry state of affairs when they cross over...

[Tisha]

Actually Nick, I'd call that wishful thinking!  The fundamentalists will go exactly where they think they will - - - their own version of "heaven."  "Like attracts like," they'll probably all end up together.  Or most, at least.  Frankly, their version of heaven seems kind of boring but, Ah, they seem to look forward to it.

The ones I REALLY worry about are those priests who obsess about Satan and temptation all the time.  POOR THINGS!  Can you IMAGINE?

[Nick]

There is certainly something to ponder in what jason and Tisha added. What Monroe reported, as well as people such as Jane Roberts (see (The Nature of Personal Reality), is that thought creates your reality.

If we take the religious fundamentalist issue, then certainly there are a lot of possibities, because each individual will be somewhat different from the other. For example, we have the very judgemental type ending up with similar beings (most likely all will be harshly judging each other in their Locale/belief system territory). Yet there may be still others, who while fundamentalist in association, had a good heart and were not quick to judge. Certainly, these latter ones would have a better chance of more quickly moving out of whatever "belief system" they become stuck in to a better level, locale, or realm.

It does get you thinking of the many possibilities though.

p.s. Tisha, I don't want to even start thinking of those possibilities with the satan and temptation obsessors. [xx(] Yikes!

Very best,

[Anonymous]

If hell exists, and it probably does in one form or another, then it is an actual place.  Now I am not a Christian but, I have read a great deal about this religion, as well as others.  Lucifer is not considered a god equal to God so he can be damaged and therefore killed (Michael did this in the second war on heaven that sent Lucifer back to hell).  Also since it is a place with "physical" boundaries then there is an end to it.  So, theoretically, if you have an eternity (which you do) then there is a way out to other places.  Lucifer did to get out of hell once so why could you not do it yourself.[]

[Jenadots]

Hi everyone.  Interesting topic.  There are many who say hell is right here because being in the physical is the lowest vibrational level of consciousness or the thickest density of soul matter.

Perhaps they are onto something.  I don't know.  I do think that if the various religions didn't have a hell concept, we would still have a place of punishment.  It is human nature to want to know that whoever caused you harm - or harm to your loved ones - would at least end up in a place of suffering.  Most of us want to believe that.  

I have often wondered what happens to those who are truly evil in their actions and motivations 10 minutes after they are dead.  The psychic Sylvia Browne claims that you experience all the pain you caused in others.  I suppose you also experience all the happiness you caused as well.  

So what do you think happens to the mass murders of the world 10 minutes after they are dead?  Maybe they just get to come right back here with no time off for good behavior.  But it is certainly all too human to wish there is a hellish place for them.  

My real question is how do we avoid being around them in the afterlife, whatever and whereever that is?

[SilverSlider]

I just have a quick point to argue: Christianity seems to like to use the idea of emptying our minds and bodys which will result in possession to persuade people to their side. What I don't understand about this is, where are all the possessed people? There are a fair number of people involved in this "satanic" practice, and possession is a rare thing, so wouldn't you see on the news occassionally reports about someone becoming possessed and doing thing that the church expects one that is possesed to do?

Despite the fact that there aren't a significant amount of people that project, I would imagine you one see on the news every once in a while or hear about possession through word of mouth, and this just isn't the case.

[jason]

I also read stuff about how many people w/religious background seem to believe that our bodies will become possessed when inducing AP.this is stupid.our minds,or soul,or whatever you will,NEVER LEAVES THE BODY.conciousness just expands beyond it.this can be seen as a mind-split.

[Augray]

I believe that Hell cannot exist in a christian belief system.  I believe that Hell does not exist.  I also believe this:  Food and water are two basic needs of the human race.  Spirituality is another.  However, cut off food and water and the body will die rather quickly. but if you skimp on spirituality you won't be equipped to deal with life beyond this one.  Maybe this is Hell.  Being confused, for eternity.  Also, for all you people knocking Christianity, you're posting on this website so you believe in higher planes of existence, is it so far-fetched to believe that something came to earth and put on a show and tried to show us a thing or two about life?

[James S]

I have heard testemonies of people who have decided to become christians after experiencing "hell" first hand during NDEs. This includes a old friend of mine who had a bad acid trip go very wrong, trigger an asthma attack and basically suffocated. What he described was the classic burning lake of fire straight out of Dante's Inferno.

I can't help but compare this to some of Frank and Ginny's rescues where souls get stuck in a loop based upon their own worst fears at time of death.

Think about the people, who having been given a good dose of the old hellfire & brimstone sermons made by the churches towards unrepentant unbelievers, get these images stuck in their minds while suffering some kind of NDE, come back saying "there is a hell!", go running to their local minister who chalks it up as one for their side then makes it a big point of proof for their next helfire and brimstone sermon. And so the story is further perpetuated.

James.

[Frank]

There is no such thing as "hell" per se. It's just that within the lower Astral thoughts become things. In other words, as you think then so it becomes, all around you. So, for example, if you become mildly fearful (very common) you will instantly find yourself in a mildly fearful circumstance.

Now here's where people get caught:

When people suddenly find themselves in such a circumstance, rather than thinking, "Ho hum, silly me, better close off quick and allow this situation to dissipate" they take their current circumstances as a sign that their original fears were justified. Which is only natural as, 1) the person felt fearful thinking perhaps something untoward is about to happen, and 2) so it did.

What typically happens next is the person feels fearful all the more thinking something even worse is about to take place... and so it does! However, chances are by this stage the person will have become completely engrossed by their circumstances. Which means it is near impossible to get out of. So they get caught in an ever worsening loop.

Now here's where people who have died Physically, get caught in "hell":

I'm sure everyone here can remember being in a dream where something bad was happening and no matter how hard you tried to extricate yourself from the circumstances, you couldn't. If you managed to get away from one monster, two more would appear, and so on. Or the more you tried to run away, the stickier the ground would become, etc.

When we get caught in this kind of situation, it's only a matter of time before our protective sense of conscious awareness zaps us back to Physical. Or the alarm-clock goes off, or whatever. Which has the obvious effect of bringing a person right out of it.

Within the Phsyical, there are all manner of natural interrupts which come about that "save us" from becoming trapped. But for a person who is sans physical body, no such interrupts apply. Within the Astral there is no need to eat or excrete, no awake/sleep cycle, etc., etc. So if a person gets caught in a thought-fuelled loop there is precious little they can do about it.

The way to extricate yourself from such a loop is to simply stop reacting to your circumstances, i.e. stop thinking, and allow the surrounding circumstances to dissipate. But again that is one of those things which is a darned sight easier to say than to do, at the time.

Yours,
Frank

[Gandalf]

Im sorry, I just read the article alluded to at the start of this post, it is trully laughable. A calssic case of the christian tendency to regard as 'evil' something that it doesnt understand or accept. Christians always complain about others attacking them unfairly, but then somthing like this comes out, although I agree that in this case, the article was by some fundamentalist nuts. The question here is, why post a link to this forum? I suppose it has stimulated some debate but it wasnt particularily helpfull.

I worry for our world, President Bush of the US is known to be a bible thumper and UK PM Tony Blair is showing 'born again' tendencies. Now they want to save the world. Lets hope they dont try to act out their christian 'apocalypse' fantasies with nuclear weapons and other 'weapons of mass destruction'!

Douglas

[Leviiathan]

The christian arguement of the New Testament is that everything changed after Jesus came. Many I have talked to simply disregard the passages of the Old Testament and settle with the new one. See the dangerous inconsistencies?

My Position supports christian dogma as it should be, and opposes the inconsistencies presented by those who view the Old Testament as a burden replaced by new methodology. That form of makeshift thinking not only makes no sense, it is horribly wrong.

To ignore the Old Testament is to ignore the fundamentals of their entire belief system (the errant creation story, Lucifer's fall from Grace, the history and rise of Man, the rules of behavior and laws of punishment issued in the name of God by men claiming to have word from God, or men representing God's name).

Spiritual Anarchism is the path I have chosen because all other paths lead to falsehood. At least, under self-guidance, I can choose to think and reason rather than believe something just because that is what I am taught or told, even if it is a form of ignorance itself.

Spiritual, for me, is not about awakening a God through myself, or becoming a God at all, nor is it something I believe in (It is ridiculous for men to consider themselves Gods if we have no control over our destinies or our place in the universe). Spirituality is about understanding one's place in the universe and learning to play that part. There are also lessons to be learned, and personal knowledge to be gained (to better oneself).



That analysis of Astral Projection is, in my opinion, a hands-down example of christian biggotry told by a blind religious perspective. The attacks were unsupported, and the choice of using an author's personal opinions to judge those with similar interests was questionable.

And to add insult to injury, the author clearly epxresses his lack of reasoning by suggesting that the reason we clear our heads and bodies is to allow this un-defined 'Satan' character to enter us. Ridiculous. This person has no concept of focus.

As for everyone else who wants an interesting opinion on religion and blind faith, and false conceptions of God (the whorship of Ignorance as an idol), I suggest my personal article as a read:

http://leviiathan.homestead.com/files/site/Opinions.htm

[Mirador]

Over eight hundred readings on this posting, and they're those of us who still believe this is not a religious community?

Mirador

[Leviiathan]

Communities are defined by similar interests and not by religion themselves. Whether or not some (or many) of you are religious or not has nothing to do with my personal intentions.

[ronaldo]

Hi
what do u guys think of this. My friends sister in law said that god created this web site to educate people about occult activities

//http://www.reachouttrust.org/regulars/articles/occult/aproj.htm