Multidimensional Realities - various OBE phenomena explained

[c0sm0nautt]

With Lucid Dreams there is usually some form of narrative attached, you are aware that you are dreaming, but you follow some sort of script coming from the subconscious. I have often noticed when using Lucid Dreams as a platform for OBEs by focusing on an object or on the ground until full clarity or waking awareness is established, that the dream narrative disintegrates or dissolves. OBEs take place in consensus environments shared by others. Lucid dreams largely consist of dream content or at least create a dream overlay or a dream projection within the consensus environment. The way I see it is a bit like somebody sitting at a desk in the office supposedly working, but in his mind he may be in a different place altogether. I don't know whether any of you have, but I have come across people during OBEs I identified as sleepers, involved in something else without being present, kind of absent minded.

Yes I have noticed this! People just walking around in the street like they are sleep walking. I wonder if we all go out-of-body to what Robert Bruce calls the real time zone (RTZ), and then we dream from there (enter a more subjective focus of consciousness).

[Rudolph]

In Lucid dreams you can get up to all sorts of mischief, in OBEs there are boundaries, usually imposed by other conscious individuals sharing your environment and there are limits to your energies, depending which dimensional level you are operating on. You are no longer almighty. People often report problems with flying, only managing hovering a few feet above the ground etc.

Yeah baby!... now we're talkin'

and even then...

its all pretty much Jungian imagery designed to help the Seeker take the next step.

And the failure to fly 'high enough' is still totally within the LD realm, imo. But it has at least crossed into the realm of being useful on the consciousness level. Real actual learning is taking place, almost... some of the time....

[Rudolph]

Yes I have noticed this! People just walking around in the street like they are sleep walking. I wonder if we all go out-of-body to what Robert Bruce calls the real time zone (RTZ), and then we dream from there (enter a more subjective focus of consciousness).

This is a more Intermediate and maybe advanced skill...

Judging the "awareness" quality of familiar characters in OBE state...

The ones walking around are doing better than most. My experience is they are mostly hanging out a few inches from their physical body and totally clueless about anything going on around them...

pretty much the way they are in waking Life!

[AJDIN]

Thanks for the video!

[c0sm0nautt]

Maybe all of those lucid dreams where I had trouble flying I was really being held back by a consensus belief system. 

[Rudolph]

or one's own attachment to the belief system.

Take responsibility for the condition and then maybe you can move past it... if you can let go of it. It is only "consensus" if you are participating in the consensing

Younger folks kinda have to participate in the consensus in this world but there is a way to walk the razor's edge....

[MDM]

OK, after last night's discussion with regard to OBE and Lucid dream I did go out this morning during meditation. Went through the window, but instead of landing in my back garden I was in a new place altogether. I did the usual enhancing technique by looking at the ground, studying the detail etc until I was fully aware. It was still physical reality though, people were walking right through me. I approached one couple with a kid to see if the kid would be aware of me (kids are usually more perceptive) and she responded when I told her that I was "a friendly ghost" and she reported promptly back to her parent, gleefully, but they thought she was just being silly and simply ignored her and carried on with their conversation. Everything else was physical, the cars, the streets, the shops etc.

I then went into OBE meditation to get to a higher level. The next level wasn't very advanced and I started looking around, gathering information, studying the designs etc. There were some ludicrously badly designed cars, fifty's style which made me laugh out loud. Total absence of contemporary design. Everything was a bit naff. I did look out for any dream content but the very decision only made me more aware of the consensus reality. However, I did discover how fluidly OBE and LDs blend. At one stage I saw a slightly oversized porcelain figurine of a ballet dancer, which was beautifully crafted. So I decided to try to bring her to life. I was distinctly using positive energy and the figure grew to life size, started moving and behaving like a real ballerina. She smiled at me and when I smiled back she looked almost like a real person and then she asked me to dance. (I am not the greatest dancer, but I couldn't let the opportunity pass by, so we danced, even danced in the air) At the same time I tried to analyze what was taking place. Did I just momentarily slip into an LD or did I manifest an artificial entity as I have experimented with in the past and written in my book about?

In the end I decided that consciousness doesn't operate on the principle of black and white, but is much more fluid and dynamic, seamlessly blending perceived realities without sacrificing conscious awareness. I think we'll have to get used to the fact that the next dimensional levels are very dynamic environments. I was certain people would have been able to observe me dancing with a living figurine rather than me doing all this in a private remote fantasy in my mind. So we have consensus environments, because I spoke to people, asked whether they could tell that I was an OBE traveler etc and to me they came across as individualized separate entities, in other words, real people. And within this consensus environment I manifested content which could clearly be described as dreamlike.

I was out for two hours and collected other information but these are just the relevant points with regard to the subject.

[c0sm0nautt]

That has been my experience as well (albeit relatively limited). It seems the more objective realities can still contain subjective elements, for we are co-creators of the reality as conscious inhabitants. So it is not this or that, but this and that.

MDM, I used your 30 minute trance mp3 and got into a very deep trance last night from a waking state. My body went numb and I started to see flashes of colorful lights and at time what looked like an internet page with a search engine. I have a lot of trouble getting into the trance state from waking, so your mp3 has been the best one I have tried yet. 

[Rudolph]

So we have consensus environments, because I spoke to people, asked whether they could tell that I was an OBE traveler etc and to me they came across as individualized separate entities, in other words, real people. And within this consensus environment I manifested content which could clearly be described as dreamlike.

This sounds like it is a full conscious projection, OBE style, that remained in the RTZ and would be at least an ultra-lucid dream if not a flat out OBE. I am not sure how to draw the line on something like that. I wonder if that little kid actually consciously saw you and heard you. ?

I have had various reactions by others around me when I tell them I am OBE and have a physical body elsewhere. Usually a "shy - look away, turn and leave" type reaction if it is just someone on the street. If it is a guide or someone that I sought out for help on something they act surprised and change their attitude toward me.

In a projection last week I was in mood similar to yours MDM, and I was floating around the front yard early in the morning investigating the phenomenon known as 'faeries', and the neighbor was pulling out of his driveway to go to work. I mischievously thought to get in front of his windshield and see if he could see me. But my subconscious must've thought better about it and manifested an obstacle to stop me.

I have had two hour or more OBE sessions before but they require a couple returns to the body in between. There are some experts who claim the two hour OBE trips are an illusion and they are actually much shorter. How certain are you the exit lasted that long? 

[MDM]

MDM, I used your 30 minute trance mp3 and got into a very deep trance last night from a waking state. My body went numb and I started to see flashes of colorful lights and at time what looked like an internet page with a search engine. I have a lot of trouble getting into the trance state from waking, so your mp3 has been the best one I have tried yet. 

Thanks for your feedback on the track, cosmomautt. It's good to learn that my efforts paid off. Have you used the mantra OM chant or any other mantra chant whilst having an OBE? This is what convinced me that the OM in conjunction with the beat would be more successful. My wife uses it now for some of her selected clients as part of her psychotherapy to get them to reconnect.

[MDM]

I have had two hour or more OBE sessions before but they require a couple returns to the body in between. There are some experts who claim the two hour OBE trips are an illusion and they are actually much shorter. How certain are you the exit lasted that long? 

Hi Rudolph, yes, difficult to accurately judge time. I was meditating for half an hour and then left my body. I returned to my body about 10am, looked at my watch, two minutes later I was off again, went back to the same level, same town even, but a different part and then did the test with the porcelain figure. When I went back to my chair and looked at my watch it was 10:30am. It felt that the experience was continuous and coherent and I hadn't passed out or gone to sleep or into dream mode. I was fully clear in my head, taking mental notes of everything, analyzing it as I did.

My longest ever projection lasted 6 hours in the late 1970s. I went out at 12am and came back after 6am. The whole excursion was 100% clarity, although I couldn't recall everything, I recalled most of the beginning and most of the end. In between I only remember the events were so over the top and unusual that I questioned during the experience, how I was ever going to remember all that. Several times during this long excursion I went back to my body, because I thought I had died and I was now permanently on the other side, it was so clear, but it also gave me an enormous thrill. It seems the longer you stay in OBE the easier it is to stay there. At that time I thought I had mastered the art permanently living in two different universes, one at night and my usual one during the day. I got very excited the next day, but of course it never happened again to the same extend. It's easy to get carried away when things go well, but then they may not happen for a long time or the interest is no longer there.

[Rudolph]

Yes, the "over the top" type experiences for me were well beyond the RTZ. And they lasted a good long while.

I find that normally I exit directly into the RTZ now that I am using exit methods that I have learned in the last few years. Also the RTZ is the default entry zone and moving to the astral is more challenging and beyond astral can be very difficult.

I almost never see any AP descriptions on these forums that I would consider pure Astral level or above.

[c0sm0nautt]

Thanks for your feedback on the track, cosmomautt. It's good to learn that my efforts paid off. Have you used the mantra OM chant or any other mantra chant whilst having an OBE? This is what convinced me that the OM in conjunction with the beat would be more successful. My wife uses it now for some of her selected clients as part of her psychotherapy to get them to reconnect.

I have meditated once in a lucid dream (I usually repeat the mantra Om Mani Padme Hum) but this caused me to wake up. I will have to try it the next time I am lucid (it's been a few weeks :/). Your mp3 was very good, I felt like I kept getting sucked deeper and deeper. There was a bell at one point which scared the bejesus out of me, but that is because I am always going fight or flight (it's a problem I'm working on.)

[Lionheart]

 That bell near the 3/4 mark got me as well. The OM Chant Binaural Beat is one of the best I have ever used. I tried the other one with the tones, but didn't like that as much. The first time I tried Zurgen's OM chant I was shot, like out of a cannon out of my body into the realm, then that bell hit and brought me back really quickly. I had chills/goose bumps running through my body after that bell, it created a hyper awareness.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
Rudolph, there's one 'place' I visited with a guide in 1969 which was nothing but pure white light. The entities there had a problem with my presence regarding me as barbaric. I remember no words were said just a pulse of knowing and I had no control of anything. The overall experience left me feeling somewhat depressed but this was implanted with all the info I wished to know.
The trip started with me asking what was the ultimate 'good and bad' that exists and I WAS enlightened with a time dependent answer. I knew a return to the light place was unlikely as what life offers MY reactions to it would not be acceptable. At the time I had many outings behind me from previous years from as early as four years old. I was still less than ten years old at that time. I knew nothing of OOBE's just that if I wanted to see someone it was easy to do so long as I didn't fall asleep.
I think that locale was in F4 in the Frank system. It was totally unlike anywhere else. I guess this is the higher realms you mentioned above.

[Rudolph]

Yes, Szaxx, that is the sort of thing that enters the realm of possibility for 'higher realms', but without other markers it is hard to say.

If there are other details like a sound or type of melody/instrument like buzzing bees, flute, bells, running water, etc. the realm can be identified with much better certainty.

I have traveled to various places and only get the full Sound effects once in a while.
I think the Higher Self must like to keep me guessing.

[Rudolph]

Now here is where it gets complicated...

In Lab environments they have had people hooked up and they are in REM and dream frequency mode when they report their OBE. But there are many levels of dream stages.

In this one the OBE explorer read a 5 digit random number correctly during this dream state OBE;

At 5:57 A.M. the slow wave artifact was lessened and the record looked somewhat like Stage 1 with REMs, but I could not be sure whether this was a waking or a Stage I record. This lasted until 6:04 A.M., at which time Miss Z awoke and called out that the target number was 25132. This was correct (with the digits in correct order), but I did not say anything to her at this point;
http://www.near-death.com/tart.html

Just reading the numbers correctly is significant and whether she actually left her body or just got it by telepathy doesn't really matter.

I think I would call that a solid OBE simply based on personal report of being OBE and getting the numbers correct.

[Athymari]

Wow this topic is really much in my own focus at the moment. Multidimensions - I can not get enough.

I have had several different types of other reality though mainly on a night.

The one that is newest to me is one that feels more then simply a LD and it feels more real then waking life. I can tell I am there instantly. I am usually in my room, still laid in bed, still dark at night. I thought it might be RTZ though I am unsure. Many a strange thing can happen here including extremely loud buzzing noise in my head and in the room, and having my vision taken, seeing flashing patterns of light, lightening storms - lots of stuff (not at once!).

The difference between dreams of being lucid and an actual LD for me is how you feel. You can tell yourself your dreaming, but do you feel it? Is it simply a dream of being lucid due to the Reailty Checks you have been doing all day or do you KNOW you are!

Its like the difference you feel if you say 'I am jumping up and down' while sat down, then saying whilst you are jumping up and down. That difference is in the affirmation feeling of what you are doing. I look forward to seeing what else crops up in this thread

[MDM]

Rudolph, there's one 'place' I visited with a guide in 1969 which was nothing but pure white light. The entities there had a problem with my presence regarding me as barbaric. I remember no words were said just a pulse of knowing and I had no control of anything. The overall experience left me feeling somewhat depressed but this was implanted with all the info I wished to know.
The trip started with me asking what was the ultimate 'good and bad' that exists and I WAS enlightened with a time dependent answer. I knew a return to the light place was unlikely as what life offers MY reactions to it would not be acceptable. At the time I had many outings behind me from previous years from as early as four years old. I was still less than ten years old at that time. I knew nothing of OOBE's just that if I wanted to see someone it was easy to do so long as I didn't fall asleep.
I think that locale was in F4 in the Frank system. It was totally unlike anywhere else. I guess this is the higher realms you mentioned above.

I think we are getting into some really interesting territory here, OBE states beyond the OBE states, where consciousness is transcended to such a degree that it becomes "omnipresent", penetrating and uniting the total spectrum of all possible human experience. As you said this is often referred to as the "White Light", the ultimate destiny. This is of course at the root of all religion and human aspiration.

This is the same place often reported by people who went there via trauma as in Near Death Experience. Check out some of the NDE reports. People will mostly report it using a religious reference system, because there is little in terms of language that will adequately describe it, but a complete atheist can still get there, as it has nothing to do with believes or mind constructs. Using meditation and OBEs is a natural method and we won't be traumatized, but life will be transformed nevertheless.

Last year I "stumbled" via a direct route into it without OBEs, simply using meditation, but of course it is never as straight forward as one might imagine, because it relies on a number of other factors. I described an OBE in my book which led into it, but no need to buy the book though, if you are interested, I dealt in part (four parts) of it on my website under the menu heading "Super Dimensions". The point is, it's not beyond ones reach. In fact trying it during the next OBE is a good idea, either calling on guides to assist or by trying meditation using mantras etc. You will find that a carefully chosen mantra has a direct effect on your energy body. They both vibrate essentially on sound.

[scout]

I am a beginner and recently found myself in a cartoon place in the clouds after asking my guide to take me some place that would be fun to explore. I was quite disappointed at the time thinking I must be dreaming again. But maybe I wasn't now that I read this thread. One thing that convinced me further that I was dreaming at the time was that my husband showed up (he was away for the night on business coincidently) and was standing next to me at one point. I didn't even talk to him because I was convinced it was a dream and was a little mad about it. LOL! He's very much grounded and doesn't believe me when I talk about my adventures. However, the following evening when he returned, he was excited to tell me about a fantastic dream he had about flying in the clouds and how he could hear the wind rushing in his ears and feel a tickle in his stomach with each dip and dive through the air- classic OBE signs. He doesn't remember me being there but he hates being away from me so I can see him wishing to be with me in his sleep/OBE and finding me.

MDM-- love the videos and website!!! My OBE's always come after I fall back to sleep after meditating. For some reason, I thought this was not as legit as an OBE that starts during meditation. I'm glad to know that's not the case and I can reach different realms just the same with this method. As a beginner, I find the second meditation mp3 on your website more helpful than the OM one that everyone else here is raving about. I can focus a lot better with it. I've tried chanting OM during one of my OBEs (after watching your videos) to see if it would help me stay out longer but it didn't work. Perhaps it didn't work because I've never used the OM mantra to achieve focus in meditation so I haven't experienced the power of it. As I gain more experience, I will try this again. Thank you soooo much for all the info and work you've put into this! You have helped me so much!

[Rudolph]

I am a beginner and recently found myself in a cartoon place in the clouds after asking my guide to take me some place that would be fun to explore. I was quite disappointed at the time thinking I must be dreaming again.

I have been to that cartoon place more than once.

I read elsewhere of the experiences of an extremely well accomplished Astral Traveler who reported very similar observations. I think he even used the words "cartoon-like" to describe it.

[Xanth]

I think we are getting into some really interesting territory here, OBE states beyond the OBE states, where consciousness is transcended to such a degree that it becomes "omnipresent", penetrating and uniting the total spectrum of all possible human experience. As you said this is often referred to as the "White Light", the ultimate destiny. This is of course at the root of all religion and human aspiration.

That sounds, curiously, very close to what Frank called his Focus 4 oC.  The sense that you're everywhere and everything, yet a collective consciousness amongst a group of other collective consciousnesses.

This is the same place often reported by people who went there via trauma as in Near Death Experience. Check out some of the NDE reports. People will mostly report it using a religious reference system, because there is little in terms of language that will adequately describe it, but a complete atheist can still get there, as it has nothing to do with believes or mind constructs. Using meditation and OBEs is a natural method and we won't be traumatized, but life will be transformed nevertheless.

Agreed, that people use the beliefs they're accustomed to to describe that which they're experiencing. 

I'd also just like to say that I love the direction this thread is going.  Let's keep up the awesome dialog here so far. 

[AJDIN]

I've been too that cartoon place too, was an interesting as outing

Another thing with increasing clarity by looking at your hands/ground.. i sometimes look at the reflection of myself, and usually can always see my reflection and when i stare into my eyes my pupils increase and i get a heightened sense of awareness and consciousness.. me being able too see my reflection is that a indicator of a dream?

Also something nice too add when i look at my hands in the astral they are 100% clean and top notch, but in the physical i have cuts and all that .. interesting how leaving the physical returns you back too that 100% state of health

[Lionheart]

 I wrote a couple of weeks ago here abut an OBE in a cartoon dimension. This seems to be something we all have in common here, I can see the reason why we all remember this Astral location is because it is so different form any other. The RTZ and a lot of the other Monroe Focus levels are quite a bit more difficult to distinguish between. I find the White light zone/dimension to be so incredibly intense that you can only experience it for a short time. The cartoon world had me questioning whether this was Astral or my imagination.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
Informative and enjoyable video presentation, thanks MDM.
In connection with the thread,
I made a post on ;
Is there anyone can open my third eye remotely (energy body and the chakras)
On 3rd Feb at 7:30 ish as I remember where some basic info is presented in connection with the above omnipresent comment.
Im interested in this omnipresence as Ive experienced it 'somewhat' many times.

Quotes and pictures etc with an android phone are not my best attribute, sorry for not re posting it here.