My 1st post

[Beethoven2024]

Hi everyone.

This is my 1st post, although I did use this forum many years ago.

I could write a book here but I'll try and keep things as simple as possible.

My journey started in 1998 which completely changed my life.

I'd just got on the net and as a test to see how good it was, my friend told me to type 'Out of Body Experiences'.

I thought he was mad because he wasn't even into it, but I was surprised at how much it found.

I stumbled on a free online book by Robert Peterson and strangely enough I became interested.

Before this I was SO bored and needed some excitement in my life. WOW! I'd just found it!

It was several years later when I read the whole book but I could see the potential in the exercises etc.

I soon discovered Lucid Dreaming, and this became my main focus.

I tried everything in my powers to have LD's and pretty much failed miserably.

I've probably had more than 100 over the years but most of them have barely lasted 30 seconds.

I've got to say that reality checks never worked for me. I think most of my experiences came from the methods an OBE-er would use.

It got to the stage where I was into both LD's and OBE's at the same time. In fact, I still see them as pretty much the same.

I would LOVE to be proved completely wrong.

I was never into these all the time. For years I'd go through stages of trying every night followed by a break for a few months.

In fact, that's where I am now.

I always wondered whether some of my LD's were actually OBE's??? I say this because my LD's sometimes took place in my bedroom.

One night around the early 2000's I was drifting in and out of consciousness and suddenly started floating upwards.

My mind was all over the place and I awoke about the time I hit the ceiling.

This was the 1st time I really believed that OBE's were different from LD's.

Several years ago after another OBE/LD attempt I had a feeling that something magical was going to happen.

I did what I'd tried countless times before which had failed, but I never learn so tried again.

I slowly imagined moving my body in a position where I could get out of bed.

It was like I was lying down in a diagonal position with my legs sticking out of the bed.

I then stepped out of bed and I couldn't believe it. I'd done it!!!

The first thing I did was see if I could see myself lying in bed.

I wasn't there. This didn't make any sense but I carried on.

I never record my experiences so can't remember what I did. I did pass through my bedroom door though. Then it was pretty much all over.

What happened was an absolute godsend! Motivation is SO important and I was definitely running out of it!

Haha, I got a bit cocky after this and was thinking that I'd soon have more experiences.

I think it was about a few years later when I had another one???

I used the same technique but what I was experienced was more like a LD because things were much different such as the layout of my bedroom etc.

To cut a long story short, I've probably had about 4-5 of these encounters all starting the same way.

I personally don't like to say that I left my body etc. BUT whatever the real scientific explanation is, it did feel like it.

The reason I decided to join this site again is because I feel like I'm close to starting another phase and am looking for motivation.

I have much more to say about why I know the reason behind my lack of success etc.

Thanks for reading. Phew!

[tides2dust]

Hello!

I'm inexperienced with this, but I would like to think they are the same. I'm talking about the space- I think the only difference is the level of awareness. So we call things by different names and varying degrees, but I think I've read that even the dream of being on an airplane is the same as having an OBE. It was just translated differently.

If we can get to the point where we can move past the filter that makes for these varying degrees, wow that'd be something.

Though you've been here before, here's an official welcome from a newcomer like myself.

Welcome! = )

[Beethoven2024]

Thanks for the reply, it's much appreciated.

This kind of feels a bit strange at the moment because it's been many years since I chatted like this.

I REALLY was completely worn out with it all. Especially with Lucid Dreaming.

I would love to have that refreshing feeling again, but it's going to be difficult to dilute over 2 decades of frustration from my brain.

Your great post was the perfect start though so thanks again.

I think you're spot on about awareness. I wondered whether all dreams are actually OBE's in some way???

"If we can get to the point where we can move past the filter that makes for these varying degrees, wow that'd be something."

Yes, it's definitely something to get excited about.

Have you had any success with OBE's yet???

[tides2dust]

Good morning to you!

Yes, I've had some success. I'm 35, in my 20's I had sleep paralysis. I had not found this community yet and I did not understand what was happening. I found an old webpage as I looked online for understanding- I think it was called crystallinks, and then I discovered the divinecosmos forum.

It was there someone helped me learn how to break free from sleep paralysis- it used to terrify me. Once I learned this simple method, which I believe is taught here(wiggling your big toe to wake up)- I started attempting to recreate the sleep paralysis.

Why? Well, as a child I had a spontaneous OBE with eyes open. I have had mystical experiences through out my life, and I feel I had shut down some of that ability when I was younger due to fear. The most real experience that caused me to shut everything down was when I could FEEL someone else was in the room with me, but could not see them. And as I tried to go to sleep, I felt them getting closer. Suddenly, they leaned towards my face and whispered my name. "Eric" I even felt their breath against my ear. I was terrified because of how real everything felt.

I think that's the moment I tried ignoring things for a while... But I have always been fond of my dreams, and the magic of these hard to explain phenomenon. So... When the opportunity came back, I was interested in learning how to recreate the experience.

I was mostly unsuccessful but have had some success. For the most part, it is still rather spontaneous. But what I can say is, there are folks here who have made suggestions to me and, with a burning desire to make it happen- results would come. So, persistence is important- but not just persistence, the desire to do the work.

If I'm being honest, my desire to do the work is quite lazy compared to most who come here. So I am in a bit of a limbo. But, recently a member inspired me to recall my dreams and the next day I recalled them. I think this has something to do with the Heart of the matter.

But if nothing comes, please don't feel discouraged. I am learning as well- that whatever scared me in my youth, was never meant to hurt me. Slowly- she would make her presence known to me by smells and phantom touch with her hair. And even stranger, things outside my control would happen to acknowledge my inner and unspoken world. Like, things manifesting in this supposed waking life.

A lot of what we experience is meant to engage our perspective with this waking reality- so, I feel this is quite a loaded phenomenon that is not just limited to imagining ourselves leaving our bodies. It has everything to do with exploring consciousness- both when we close our eyes and when they're open as we move about with our day to day activities.

I don't imagine we will have it figured out even when this body of ours returns to the Earth. It has recently been said in another thread, but I encourage this practice: patience. Again, try to engage this mystery in your day to day not just when you go to bed.

Feeling inspired is great, but you will find there are members here who really want it more than me and have had much more success. Perhaps some better advice too.

Best of luck. = )

That's my long winded reply to you today.  Cheers~ ~ : D

[EscapeVelocity]

Welcome back to the Pulse, Beethoven2024!

Tides has given you some excellent answers and perspective on what is a subject with many personal variations and nuances. Answering questions about our early OBEs is like traversing a minefield of misunderstandings and requires a bit of a 'deep dive into the weeds'...so, what the heck, let's dive in a little ways...

Keep in mind- This is MY personal perspective at this moment in Time...my perspective has necessarily changed and evolved many times over decades now; as I read more, listen more and experience more...I have no doubt my perspective will continue to change to some degree for the rest of my life.

My answer to your question that 'all dreams are actually OBEs in some way?' Is a conditional YES, in that a dream is a re-focusing of your attention/awareness away from its normal fixed point- that of your waking reality. It just seems to depend on where you are looking...and from where are you looking? You are not normally focused within your dreams but if your dreams are an internal process generated by you, then aren't you just 'differently focused' within yourself? But maybe our dreams can include both a private/personal aspect, as well as a greater non-private 'community' aspect? Maybe the OBE can cross both those boundaries and the trick is to learn the difference?

So, that begs the question- why is it called an OBE or Out-of-Body Experience? Is it actually 'in or out' of the body? Well, yes and no depending on your definition, it can be either. Another question being- Which body? Because certain experiences seem like distinctly different 'bodies' are at work here. Here enters the complicating idea of the ancient Vedic, Hindu theories of multiple 'energy bodies', chakras and all that...the Theosophical tradition picked up on that idea with the Etheric/Astral/Mental/Causal and higher bodies; the ancient Egyptians had the idea of the Physical body which was superseded by the increasingly spiritual purity and essentialness of the Ba and then the immortal Ka...there are multiple references to these ideas and at some point, we begin to recognize not only their presence, but their logic and likelihood...

You ask- What does all that have to do with my experiences? My point is that a great part of the confusion in our early OB experiences may revolve around this question of multiple energy bodies and our habit of confusing our limited experiences with them. For instance, any experience involving your bedroom or current domicile likely involves your etheric body, which has a very limited physical range...but did it feel sluggish and heavy, like you were underwater? If so, then that was likely an etheric experience. If not, then it might have been a subconscious dream experience of what a Phasing/OBE might feel like...like a practice run, which is a normal occurrence early on (I had that one)...slightly less than a lucid dream but still a noticeable event...looking for yourself in bed is also normal the first few times...so this could have been etheric or dream/astral...

With that in mind, this is what I see happening in your experiences- Your initial desire and expressed Intent to have experiences has paid off; you have had many, but of varying types. This naturally leads to much confusion and frustration. The experiences are seemingly random and non-repeatable; you cannot seem to find the formula that worked in any experiences. Let me just say- this is normal for most of us, myself included. The reason being this is very complicated stuff and we don't have teachers or reliable teaching materials...you want to be a black belt in martial arts? An expert musician or a skilled artist? It takes years of training and practice and good luck doing it on your own...

With that said, learning to develop your NP and OBE skills CAN BE DONE on your own...you have already learned some of the basics all by yourself...and I have little doubt that you have already received some Non-Physical training and assistance...we do have help from the 'other side'...

What is needed right now is some context- The experiences you have described range from dream to lucid dream to etheric to astral...the degree within each is hard to determine without more information on each experience, but that's what it reads like...just know that a high degree of confusion and frustration from the disparity of your experiences is quite understandable...don't let that stop you.

There are a lot of people with a wide range of knowledge here to help; so, maybe this generates some further questions.

EV   

[Beethoven2024]

A big thanks guys for your great responses. I am very overwhelmed with the amount of help on here so please bear with me.

EV - I need time to digest what you've said because it deserves a lot of attention.

This is a reply to Tides...



Hello!

Phew! That was some reply! Where do I start!

I can see how you transitioned into an OBE-er.

I've had the occasional sleep paralysis, and some other scary moments where I couldn't breathe properly etc. I'll know to wiggle my big toe now!

I had all kinds of worries as a kid that would've played a part in how I am today, but the way I got into this dream-type stuff was just completely instant. One minute I just went to bed to sleep, the next I went to bed to do anything but sleep! If my mate hadn't told me to look up 'OBE's' as a test because I was bragging how good the internet was, I would've carried on my miserable existence probably drinking myself into an early grave!

"If I'm being honest, my desire to do the work is quite lazy compared to most who come here."

The reason I feel extremely frustrated is because I've made a massive effort which hasn't come easy being a lazy sod, and I feel like the little success I've had hasn't been worth it.

To be honest, and I might be just trying to make myself feel better, I look for all the positives.

Thinking back, I was on a constant high for several years because of the potential even though almost nothing was happening. I questioned whether a 30 second lucid dream every fortnight was worth the effort. My exitement came from the thought of discovering some magical lucidity formula that I believed I would find.

In the early 2000s I thought I'd found it but unfortunately it was very short lived.

When my lucidity ended I was able to get it back, so I often had a string of back to back LD's.

One magical Friday night, it must've been about 6-7, maybe more! After being more than satisfied with the several I'd had I didn't want any more because I was tired, but it was like I'd become incapable of sleeping normally. They just kept coming like it was the easiest thing in the world.

My mindset the next day, or the same day really, was split. One part of me was really excited because I felt like I'd become a lucidity master, and the other part was anxious that I might be heading for some kind of sleep health disaster. I was on such an ego trip, it was difficult to imagine that lucidity was far away.

Phew! I soon came crashing back to Earth when not much happened for weeks on end, and my droughts got longer and longer.

This is when I started getting really frustrated which led to not wanting to hear anything about it.

Like I said, several years ago I got a massive boost when I managed to have an OBE. Whatever the scientific explanation behind it really is, the way I moved away from my body was absolutely magical. After trying so many times I was getting close to giving up for good. What happened was an absolute godsend!

"I don't imagine we will have it figured out even when this body of ours returns to the Earth. It has recently been said in another thread, but I encourage this belief- cultivate patience and try to engage the mystery of life in your day to day not just in the bedroom."

I guess that not having it figured out is a blessing in disguise because there wouldn't be any need for books or forum's like this.

My mindset has been all over the place writing this so please bear with me. I found myself writing as a friend, more than a response.

I am conscious that I don't waffle on too much and end up telling my whole life story!

Anyway, good luck to you and everyone else on here.

[Xanth]

Hi there Beethoven! 

Welcome to the Astral Pulse.

I'm sure we've collected much more information on Projections since you were last here probably.  haha 

Take a look around - try the search function in the upper right corner, and anything that cannot answer - you know where we are. 

[Lumaza]

 Welcome back Beethoven! 

 You have received some excellent advice from some very well versed and experienced members here. At one time, we all experienced "blocks" and "tests of faith", just like you have. We got our "sneak peek" and for some, that was enough. For others, that "fueled" the fire and still here we are today.

 You talk about "motivation". Unfortunately, and what I have found to be true, fortunately, this entire practice is all about "self-motivation". That is lesson in itself. I use the same mental message, mental programming every night, it doesn't matter where I am or how tired I am. I have found that "self-motivation" and "mental discipline" are basically the same thing. They are also the "key" to continued success.

 Mine is very simple and goes like this "By my act of will, I release my focus over my physical body and go to sleep. I am consciously aware in my sleep "knowing" my physical body is asleep safe and sound in my bed. I "learn from", "enjoy" and "remember" my experiences too."
 It is very simple and to the point. 

 I realize that "life happens". I have found a way to merge both Worlds (and many more) together. What I have learned from my non-physical exploration has made me who I am today. Somewhere around the line, it became my "new normal".

 I think this thread here might help you understand that a bit more, for life is all about "tests, quests and challenges", as is the non-physical realities.
https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome-to-out-of-body-experiences!/tests-quests-and-challenges/

 As for "what it is" and what is exactly happening in the process", that is not an issue for me now. I used to put a lot of focus on the "nuts and bolts" and the "labels". Just when I thought I knew what was going on, it all changed! After a while, it didn't really matter to me anymore. Nowadays, I just go experience it. I can question it later!
 

[Nameless]

Hello Beethoven, welcome back.

I don't think I can add much to the great responses you've already gotten. I will say that Yes, I do think all of these experiences (dreams, lucid dreams, astral projections, out of body, etc.) are all essentially the same think. It's what our spirit does when it is freed from the physical body. Some of us let our horses roam free to graze as they please while others keep them tied to a branch, so to speak.

Nevertheless, our experiences are as varied as we from each other and from even our own selves from day to day.

You said, "If I'm being honest, my desire to do the work is quite lazy compared to most who come here."

I'm lazy too! LOL

I feel you have much more to discuss. I'm looking forward to reading your impressions and tackling your questions, as I can.

[Beethoven2024]

WOW! So many responses! Haha I don't know where to start!


If you're anything like me, it takes a long time to get words together so I REALLY appreciate your time and effort.

I will need to take some time to digest what you've all said.

I come from a time when you was lucky to get any replies, and half the time it was from a scammer.

Does anyone remember 'The Lucidity Board'

I literally lived on it because it was one of the best forum's around back in the late 90's.

Thanks again! I owe you all a fortune!

[Volgerle]

The first thing I did was see if I could see myself lying in bed.

I wasn't there. This didn't make any sense but I carried on.

Just picking up on this issue for lack of time now and also because I thought about it recently.

In my book this happens because it was an astral and not an etheric projection.

Just speaking from my own expereriences here. The only time when I saw myself lying down in bed while I was hovering over it was a projection of my etheric body, it is heavy and with lots of energetic sensations. Later I can add a link where I described it in detail; it was also my first self-induced OBE back then.

Imv, the etheric plane has/is no own plane as such but an etheric (body) projection can take place in/to the physical and thus you can see yourself (meaning: your physical body) from it simultaneously when you are a few inches or metres 'out' and away from it. It can give you strange feeling I can tell you, at least so it was for me back then.

In an astral projection, in contrast, you are in an energetic copy of your bedroom when you see it. There are overlaps with the physical (thus validations / gatering proof is possible - but difficult) but there are also so-called "reality fluctuations" (e.g. past objects or a manifestation of your own thoughts or other levels, such as we know it from dreams).

The "logic" of the 'projection' dictates thus that of course you could not see yourself in bed ... just because you were out of your astral bed with your astral body standing there looking back at your now empty astral bed. 

However even on the astral plane (physical copy) it would be possible to see yourself, when you just 'leave a copy of self' in the bed because energetic splits might be possible. Or you just create a thought form of yourself lying there and so you 'are'. Anything is possible on the astral plane.

Just my two cents, I know some people see it differently and don't differentiate between etheric-astral-mental projection, but it is just a conclusion from my humble OBE experiences of the past. It's how I came to see it then.

[Beethoven2024]

Thanks Volgerie, that was fascinating!

I love the idea of having something like a playing card hidden to see if it can be seen out of body.

[Lumaza]

 One last thing. Many people come to this Forum because they just had a spontaneous experience, usually accompanied by "sleep paralysis". In the beginning, it seems that our "introduction" to this new phenomenon happens via OBEs.

 But, and this is a big but, after their first OBE experiences, somehow, we all seem to get challenged to think anew. If we wish to continue in this practice, we must find "our own way" of reinventing "our wheel". That is where experimentation comes in handy.

 I hear people say that they wish they could just OBE or Phase at will, without the "bells and the whistles". Those bells and whistles and the challenges we encounter during the consciously aware OBEs, Phasing or even LDS, are necessary. The journey there teaches you many things. You learn "self-control". You have to have self-control in the NPRs, otherwise, your visits there will be very short.

 Like I said above, I used to question everything in this process. Every time I finally was successful, I was told the same thing, to "relax, release and let go" and "passively observe" everything before engaging or reacting. I use this in my almost nightly LDs as well. First I will scope the scene, from a 3rd person perspective. Somewhere along the line, I seem to transfer into 1st person, where now I am "consciously" reacting to the scenario at hand.

 I have had many "spontaneous" OBEs throughout my life. During a few of them I see my physical body lying on the bed. One time I saw my Wife's as well. But she didn't look like MJ. Instead, she was of Native American descent. I told MJ that I thought she was a Tribal Chief's daughter in another lifetime. This kind of confirmed it.

 I have also had many "false awakenings" throughout my life. Those are fun!    "Almost" everything is exactly the way it is in this physical life. I am awaking. getting up and going to meet the challenges of the day. Then, all of a sudden, I wake up in bed, completely disoriented. It takes a while to get my bearings! 

 My first totally conscious willful OBE happened during a "Candle Staring" technique that I used. I stared at the candle flame for 15 minutes in a totally dark room. I then blew out the candle and closed my eyes. The candle's flames were "imprinted" in my viewing screen. As it began to fade, I willed it back. I don't know how long I did that for but then all of a sudden, I began to feel vibrations. There was a sound as well. Kind of like a "whirring". The vibrations got so strong I could swear I was in a violent earthquake. The sound, that of a "helicopter" landing my roof. I allowed my curiosity to maintain my focus. Then all of sudden, everything stopped, and I got the visual and sensation of walking down my hallway. I was hooked. I never had anything as awesome as that happen to me.

 Since then, I have still had OBEs. But these were strange. They were all the result of allowing sleep paralysis to do what it wanted. I knew that soon, it would be quiet, the stillness would come. But then, I felt my legs being touched and raised. One time not only were they raised, but I was also pulled upside down and spun through my ceiling. That caused some kind of "overload" on me. It was too much to continue, so I "consciously" aborted it. Most of the time for some reason, I seem to get dragged by my legs, down my hallway and out my patio window. Why this occurs, I have no idea. It definitely gets my attention though. My window seems to act as some kind of "veil" or portal, because on the other side of the glass, there is a new realm or reality to explore.

[omcasey]

Hiya, Beethoven.

I am just enjoying the conversation from the proverbial bleachers. What a wonderful discussion and welcome back.

Lu, that technique you mention ( with the candle ) is called "tratak". It is one of my main spiritual practices. I will never tire of it. In a perfect tratak, ie: concentrated state of focus the eyes do not blink ( exceptional example ). For the readers, any object can be used, and perhaps should be used prior to moving to practicing with a light source. It is a wonderful way to focus not only the gaze, but the attention. When you do advance to the light source and close the eyes, the after-image of the flame begins an internal tratak and advances the tratak into drishti ( true vision ). What those of us here might call the out of body state. Internal awareness is "seeing" rather than the eyes.

[Beethoven2024]

Thanks omcasey, I'm enjoying all these nice welcomes, that's for sure!

[Volgerle]

Thanks Volgerie, that was fascinating!

I love the idea of having something like a playing card hidden to see if it can be seen out of body.

The card validation is a well-known practice for OBErs. Some have success but not all. If you are on the astral level it might work despite the reality fluctuations (you might get several card options then instead). If you really focus hard you might succeed and the right one appears, maybe ... and some did have success with it for sure.

My attempts at card validations when projecting to my room, however, were quite frustrating and unsuccessful because then I did not get to my room in the first place but was somewhere else every time.


As irony has it, when I finally did it another way (actually more by accident) it worked for me. I used the Void/3D-Blackness which indeed showed the right card to me at the time. When I was back 'in-body' and went to the stack to see the card I had blindly drawn the day before and placed on that shelf I was 'shocked' to see the right one. My conclusion was (as so often): the Void does not lie - at least not to me.

[Beethoven2024]

Thanks Volgerie, I knew things wouldn't be that simple.

One day when I have more than one OBE every hundred years I hope to do lots of experiments like this.

Actually, I can feel one coming on, maybe tonight.

I'll see you in the void!

[Lumaza]

url="https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/omtalks/tratak-conscious-gazing-t1281.html#p6823"]tratak[/url]". It is one of my main spiritual practices. I will never tire of it. In a perfect tratak, ie: concentrated state of focus the eyes do not blink ( exceptional example ). For the readers, any object can be used, and perhaps should be used prior to moving to practicing with a light source. It is a wonderful way to focus not only the gaze, but the attention. When you do advance to the light source and close the eyes, the after-image of the flame begins an internal tratak and advances the tratak into drishti ( true vision ). What those of us here might call the out of body state. Internal awareness is "seeing" rather than the eyes.

Casey, I had no idea it was a "spiritual practice". It doesn't surprise me though! Very interesting. I have been doing what you are talking about for a long time now, unbeknownst to it actually being, what you called "Tratak. I learned the "Art of focus" though from "Scrying". It takes quite a while and patience to finally to be able to "still the mind" enough to see results from "Scrying". At least it did in the beginning. Scrying and Phasing are like one in the same. Both use a focus on what is in front of you whether it is the darkness from the mirror you are using or the darkness that is behind your closed eyes.

I found the "candle staring" from a version of this video here. In the past, he did a version that was more to the point and less about all the energy work. Chakras and things. It was a single video. Now he adds things that I think would confuse a person attempting the "candle staring". Sometimes short and to the point works better for some. A person can learn more about the "nuts and bolts", after they have a successful experience. There is always time to question it later!

[Lumaza]

 After watching that video again, I will say I love the concept of the "candle staring", but I wish he wouldn't add all that unnecessary garbage that he does. He takes a simple thing and elongates it to 2 videos of what I see is bad and unnecessary advice. You need to know your audience. These days, most people will only listen to the first couple of minutes of a video. If they aren't impressed by the first couple of minutes, the video gets turned off and now something else will capture their focus.

 You Keep it short and sweet by sharing the following steps

1. Make sure you will be undisturbed for the next hour or so.

2. make your room is as dark as possible. Close the curtains, the doors, whatever you need to make it dark.

3. Put a candle a few feet in front of you. Try to set it so it is parallel with your eyes.

4. Light the candle and stare at the flame and only the flame.

5. Estimate yourself doing that for about 15 minutes or so.

6. Blow out the candle and immediately shut your eyes.

 If you have done this properly, the flame should be imprinted in the darkness before your eyes. Focus on it and only it. When it fades, will it back. Play this "cat and mouse" game for a while and "something" out of the ordinary will occur. You can then return to this forum and check out the sticky on "Exit Symptoms", to see which ones you experienced.
https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome-to-out-of-body-experiences!/exit-symptomssignposts/

[omcasey]

After watching that video again, I will say I love the concept of the "candle staring", but I wish he wouldn't add all that unnecessary garbage that he does. He takes a simple thing and elongates it to 2 videos of what I see is bad and unnecessary advice. You need to know your audience. These days, most people will only listen to the first couple of minutes of a video. If they aren't impressed by the first couple of minutes, the video gets turned off and now something else will capture their focus.

 You Keep it short and sweet by sharing the following steps

1. Make sure you will be undisturbed for the next hour or so.

2. make your room is as dark as possible. Close the curtains, the doors, whatever you need to make it dark.

3. Put a candle a few feet in front of you. Try to set it so it is parallel with your eyes.

4. Light the candle and stare at the flame and only the flame.

5. Estimate yourself doing that for about 15 minutes or so.

6. Blow out the candle and immediately shut your eyes.

 If you have done this properly, the flame should be imprinted in the darkness before your eyes. Focus on it and only it. When it fades, will it back. Play this "cat and mouse" game for a while and "something" out of the ordinary will occur. You can then return to this forum and check out the sticky on "Exit Symptoms", to see which ones you experienced.
https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome-to-out-of-body-experiences!/exit-symptomssignposts/

Lu,

What you have written there is not what I would call a proper tratak *which takes practice and discipline to properly develop. It is less about the object, environment ( which does not have to be dark ) and 'staring', and more about the state of focused attention. The state does not really fully come about if the practice is not entered on good footing. Because few people will look into the links I have shared up there I will copy paste what is written and embed the video, which to-date is hands down one of the best examples of a fully concentrated state of focus I have ever seen recorded. I hope this helps someone.

***

Tratak / Trataka

Tratak is an external concentration practice in which you gaze steadily at some small object without blinking, while the eyelids are held slightly more open than usual. In the practice of tratak an object is first used to fix the attention, and arouse internal vision by making it absolutely steady through stopping the eye movements. And then gazed at until its subtle form manifests in front of the closed eyes. This directs a steady flow of attention increasingly inward.

The external practice is continued until the eyes water, at which point they are closed and relaxed. Trataka strengthens the eyes and sight and stimulates the awareness center [ajna]. This stimulation is what allows the attention to not only accurately locate, but rest while fixed upon this center for increasing durations. This guides trataka into drishti, a yogic word and concept meaning 'true vision'.


A good way to enter the practice is as follows---

• Sit in a comfortable position

• Place your symbol or object an arms length in front of you at eye level

• Relax the whole body--close your eyes and prepare as for any meditative practice

• Let the breath be long and quiet, the mind calm

As you open your eyes, take your gaze directly into the center of your point of focus until the eyes are opened slightly more than what is normal.

• Gaze for as long as possible without blinking and without strain for up to 2 minutes - or

• Until the eyes begin to water and stream ( whichever comes first )

• Then close the eyes and rest

This is phase one, the external form of the practice.

There are a number of ways to deepen the practice of tratak into its subtle form

1. After the eyes water and stream, close the eyes and rest. If the subtle form of your object ( a bindu or dot for instance ) immediately appears in front of your closed eyes, concentrate on the after image for as long as possible. If the subtle form of your object does not immediately appear in front of your closed eyes, then just note this. In time you will be able to gradually lengthen your practice from 2 minutes to 10 minutes, which will deepen the internal impression.

2. Use the dot to begin your practice. After the eyes water and stream, close the eyes and rest. To enter the second stage, begin your practice again, this time using a luminous object, such as a candle flame. You will see that the impression remains naturally for some time, making internal trataka very easy to practice. Aim to hold the impression center in your field of vision. It will dance and flit about. Hold it center.

General guidelines for advancing your practice of tratak

• Candle flame gazing at night to get started; 2 minutes unless eyes water sooner, close the eyes and rest - 2 weeks

• Candle flame gazing at night : sequentially building toward 10 minutes, close the eyes and rest -  indefinite

• Eyes closed sun gazing at sunrise or sunset; 7 consecutive days then discuss with your teacher

• Eyes open sun gazing; 10 seconds - to proceed as individually appropriate

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This is tratak. - ( not the external practice, the internal state )

The gaze is purely focused, he is seeing both internally within himself and externally into the environment.

The eyes do not blink when mind is concentrated. Beautiful, beautiful example.

It reaches into even those watching.
 

[Beethoven2024]

EscapeVelocity

I just want you to know that I've read your reply several times now and I appreciate your help.

I desperately wanted to reply to some of it to do it justice so I'll just take this part...

"The experiences are seemingly random and non-repeatable; you cannot seem to find the formula that worked in any experiences."

I don't think there's been a time after an experience, mostly lucidity, where I haven't expected to have success the following night. I feel like it's so easy to get conned into thinking that I've found the magic formula only to come crashing back down to Earth when nothing happens for the next 6 months or so.

[Lumaza]

I don't think there's been a time after an experience, mostly lucidity, where I haven't expected to have success the following night. I feel like it's so easy to get conned into thinking that I've found the magic formula only to come crashing back down to Earth when nothing happens for the next 6 months or so.

That is when the "real" work beings. How bad do you want it and what are you going to do achieve your goals? You have been shown a "sneak peek" of what could be. Now comes the practice, the patience and finally the perseverance of achieving that goal. It's a school, just like this one here, with many lessons, where you learn how to evolve!

[Beethoven2024]

Lumaza

I REALLY want it BUT things can be REALLY tough.

I'll be lying there in the zone feeling like everything is going well, then suddenly a body part will start hurting. I'll try and ignore it but after a while I realise that it's an impossible task and give up.

Although I've been to the toilet before my practice, I often feel the need to go again because I've been lying there awake for over an hour.

I've realised that there is a really uncomfortable groggy point that is hard to get past but if I do things will get better. So many times, I'll call it a night and end the session.

Phew!

[Lumaza]

I REALLY want it BUT things can be REALLY tough.

That sounds like life in general! 

I'll be lying there in the zone feeling like everything is going well, then suddenly a body part will start hurting. I'll try and ignore it but after a while I realise that it's an impossible task and give up.

Although I've been to the toilet before my practice, I often feel the need to go again because I've been lying there awake for over an hour.

Unfortunately, been there done that. It used to take me a good 45 minutes to an hour and half to find success. I had every nuisance a person could have. I had swallowing/saliva problems. I had the sensation often that my physical eyes were opening. I had the pain in the legs and other body parts. I had the cramping. Basically, every physical challenge one could have was put on me. I handled each of them separately, just like I would any other contention in life. I was a salesman and pitchman for many years. Rule one in sales is learning to handle contentions put before you.

 For the eyes, I started using a sleep mask when I practiced. For the odd sounds, I used earplugs. The saliva was the hardest challenge. How I handled that was to learn to "disassociate" my physical focus as fast I could. That is when I began to create the "Doorway process". After I began using it, I experimented often with ways to improve on it. I realized things that we pre-cursors to my Phase sessions. Most of my Phase sessions are done while in the bathtub. I call them "Phase soak sessi0ons". Just the act of running the water for the tub has already begun to prepare me for what my upcoming phase soak session.

 I then do some mental affirmations and Mantra I found years ago. If needed, I do a bit of the NEW (new energy ways, developed by Robeert Bruce) process and relieve any pain that may be present. If the pain is bit more intense, I can do some "progressive relaxation". That all sounds like a lengthy time-consuming process, but it only takes a few mere moments nowadays. Then I relax. release and let go until my bath water is cold and it is time to end the session. In the early moments, I can mentally move into the darkness before my closed eyes. I can also do a bit more of a mental focus on directions, side to side, forwards, backwards, up or down or even do some mental exercises, like shooting hoops, rowing a boat, etc. By then, my physical body is a memory. I am 6'2 and am cramming my body into a 5ft bathtub. Not only the bathtub, but that is also the size of the walls on both sides. My legs are left climbing the wall, lol. During my Phase soak session, I don't feel the least bit uncomfortable. My focus is laser focused on the current reality before my eyes.

 So yes, it is not easy or should I say, it wasn't in the beginning, until I learned that it was "me" that was getting in the way. Our physical focus will fight tooth and nail to keep you focused on it and only it. Once you learn how to and that it is "okay" to share a dual reality focus, you will find that you can succeed in this practice/Art and much more!   

[EscapeVelocity]

Beethoven,

Lumaza is exactly right about the physical disruptions. These actually seem like physical irritants and roadblocks that we personally set up for ourselves. I will say that yes, with persistence and dedication they are eventually overcome.

Something that might help is altering your schedule of NP attempts from nighttime to early morning or even a Wake Back To Bed routine...personally, I found my most convenient time to practice (bedtime) was not my 'best' time (early morning)...it takes a lot of practice to learn to do it 'anytime'...