(So how shall we spell your name, God?) D.R.U.G.S!

[sublime]

What tha Phak,


  i apologize for my hrm... "ignorant" post. I am too majoring in Psych however we havent really talked about any illegal drugs like E and their effects on the brain in any of the courses i've taken so far. It's sort of hard for me to be SOOO against drugs because I used to be a pothead and I did try E once before knowing it's major effects it has on the brain. I hope my brain isnt smoked because i tried it once [V] Anyways, i really dont know much about shrooms especially. however, i guess i'm just to the point where i want to try and live as naturally as possible. I went through a stage where I drank a lot and smoked a lot of pot and looking back on that now i feel that i am a better person.

  So basically i think it works differently for different people (in saying that i mean the overall use of drugs and just how it effects their lives in general). If drugs work for you and you feel that they have more positive benifits than negative go for it! you determine how to live your own life, people do not have the right to tell you what is GOOD and RIGHT for YOU. That's up to you to decide. so i apologize for any biased things i may say.

  When you say that i must dislike everything around me.. I'd have to say sometimes I do haha. What i mean by that is I hate that everything is so polluted with chemicals, makes me wish i lived back a looooong time ago when things were completely natural. Chemicals do have positive benifits though that's for sure. I'm a vegetarian and it kinda sucks when people have to explain to me the amount of chemicals that are in veggies when they're prepared.

  Oh and Formaldehyde is the chemical that I'm sure you smelled when you disected any animals in a High School bio class, they help preserve the dead organism... also used in humans when they die.

  well i hope i answered everything, i wish someone would tell me how to use the "quote" feature. I have yet to do that.

- Mike

[sublime]

lateralus897,

  after reading things on that website, I am also very interested in Salvia Divinorum. I have heard one story that someone said that they heard that if you take it, you cant figure out how to move your feet from the ground? haha who knows, I hope at least one person has an experience with it and can tell us more about it.

- mike

[Leyla]

I posted here on DMT. Its a chemical naturally occuring in your brain and its supposed to induce real astral projections.  - unlike acid, which merely opened my awareness to the greater whole of the universe.

I'm curious about it, but am not sure if I'd try it.

I've taken LSD and Marajuana several times. (in my youth) But I won't drink alchohol.

Because niether LSD or Weed is addictive and you can't overdose on them. The same is not true of alchol.

[What Tha Phak]

Sublime, please, don't apologize, I was was just trying to respectively correct or make some statements bringing the whole issue more into light.

I'm sure you do feel like a better peson after not drinking or doing any drugs anymore, afterall, you are preserving you body and spirit at a more pure state, especially since you are a vegentarian. (Did you know people say E.T.s are vegetarians because they recognize what the diet can do in the long run?- read that in a wierdo alien book, heh) anywayz, but I find it equally (personally) rewarding experimenting with enothonagens (i think i spelled that wrong), specially shrooms, I can't wait until I can try them again because the last time I tripped, I had never even heard of an OBE.  Then I started getting into more occult thinking and read hella books and also read Astral Dynamics, and also all of my accumulated time meditating.  I have done none of this before the last time I tripped.  I consider my self a much more developed person now.  I've done an eighth of shrooms twice and the trip was a little weak.  My shrink says I probably have a higher resistance to the active ingrediant than most people, so I wanna try a quarter and hella meditate and possibly even project.  I know it sounds a little odd but I find it so fascinating, the effects of shrooms and you combined creative imagination.  

You know, I've never even projected before in my life, it's like my number one goal.  I think I have an adept skill in raising my own energy and actually feeling it, I can stimulate my brow or naval chakras and feel definate activity within seconds now, and it just gets stronger and stronger; Thanks to Robert Bruce's "tactile imaging," that is.  When I first attempted this strategy, I could barely feel a little change in pressure in my toes and hands, and nothing at all in the major areas of my body, but now I can quickly scroll up and down and feel the whole of my body increase with every second.  You'd think that I have all the nessary skills to project, but I think I still lack in the trance area.  It's probably just a simple psychological problem, which I must hurdle.

quote:What i mean by that is I hate that everything is so polluted with chemicals, makes me wish i lived back a looooong time ago when things were completely natural.

Yeah it sucks nowadays.. war, drug abuse, gangs, suicides, lack in faith of the Self...  Did you know like before industries and stuff, back to the time of pure nature, itself... the amount of pure oxygen in the air was 80%  Guess what is now..? ABOUT 6%!!!  Can you BELIEVE THAT?!?!

...So that's what Formaldehyde is... No one better put than in MY buds!

and to --->

quote:QUOTE

you simply highlight the area you want to quote and click on the little symbol/icon of a little paper with a red arrow to the right of it, above all the little faces and fonts and size and all those other miscellanious.  It inserts an HTML command between the selection.

Yeah, now I'm really really interseted, too about this "Salvia Divinorum."  I read the FAQ and saw the prices, I'm definately gonna try some of them out. who knows ..maybe my mom will even consent of it if I show her all these facts... I always bug her about talking about astral projection and mystics anywayz... heh.

[sublime]

quote:Yeah it sucks nowadays.. war, drug abuse, gangs, suicides, lack in faith of the Self... Did you know like before industries and stuff, back to the time of pure nature, itself... the amount of pure oxygen in the air was 80%??? Guess what is now..? ABOUT 6%!!! Can you BELIEVE THAT?!?!

THAT is freaking insane and makes me sick to my stomach.

I think that's awesome that you have never projected and you are this interested in it and aspire to actually project... all of my projections have been spontaneous and I've had them off and on since I was a child.

Hey what the phak, since you said you've been meditating for a while, please go to the Energy Development section and see if you can answer my post "Meditation and the strobe effect" i think it's called, i'm very curious as to why this happens. maybe you can help. thanks

[Rob]

Hey there,

I've tried salvia divinorum - lots of times, but only managed to get any effect once, and it wasn't massive. I have literally been bonging for 10+ minutes and not got anything off it. The only stuff which worked, was the normal stregnth ie *1, got some *6 - nothing. *10 - nothing, again. Weird. At some point I might get some *25, thats oil I think.
One guy I bought it off said to me that it "opens up different parts of you mind", but the way he said it and the expression on his face said "bloody hell!! Weird and scary strange". When I got an effect, it opened up a darker portion of my mind, closer to neg area I think. Interesting tho it didn't last long....other people in local shop I bought the *10 off, said they themselves had never tried it - I asked why - they said it scared them! They knew people who had had really very odd things happen, I can't remember exactly what now, but very trippy (yeah in the cant work out how to move type thing, missing limbs, trippyness, etc).
btw most of you probably know this but salvia divinorum literally means diviners sage. You ask it questions, and get answers from the spirit of the plant. I once heard that you shouldn't smoke it though, as the plant will probably be offended. So, I munched on some for 15+ minutes with a wad in my mouth under the tongue...nothing except nausea. Ggggrrr. I think the plant doesn't want me to experience it. Oh well eh?

what the phak - here in england, ketamine is one of those drugs with a very shaky legal position. I think, it is not iligal to possess it, but it is to sell it. Or something. Werid, as it is an opiode (sp?) - therefore, quite addictive. In theory....

now DMT I would LOVE to try. A medic did lots of tests on it (clinical and the like) and came to the conclusion that, rather than simply hallucinating things which were not there, they were actually seeing into other realities...

[What Tha Phak]

Has anyone ever tried DXM (dextromethorphan)?  I've read reports where people have spontaneous OBE and see aliens and stuff...

[Epsilon]

Yeah I've done DXM a couple times.
The first time I did it, I did it alone and was having an awesome time listening to music and having all sorts of cool visuals, but then I peaked and I got really paranoid.  I thought I was going to die and no one was there to take me to the hospital if I needed to go.  It was pretty scary.  I tried to keep myself occupied so I wouldn't think about it.  As I was coming down I got really tired and just went to bed (but saw lots more cool stuff while I was laying down).
The 2nd or 3rd time I did it (I don't remember which it was because they happened on consecutive nights) me and my good friend went out to my car and smoked some weed too.  We came back, I put on some Pink Floyd music and I had one of the best trips of my life.  Unfortunately I don't remember ALL of it, but the best part I remember.  I was seeing all these visuals (with my eyes closed) and then I stated to see all these specs of light (like stars).  Then I started to fly past/through them.  It was like I was in hyperspace, in a "tunnel", flying past all these stars.  All of a sudden I stopped flying, but the stars kept moving.  It's hard to explain but it was really cool.  Then I noticed the "stars" were moving in patterns, not randomly.  They started from moving in what was like a 2d circle to a 3d sphere.  While the stars were changing their shape, my point of view started to change as well.  I think what happened was I was seeing in 3d vision, because I could see the entire sphere of stars around me.  I started asking myself "what does this mean" when a friend came in and asked me where my friend who took the DXM and smoked with was.  I think I was in the 3d blackness and if I had placed intent to go somewhere in the astral, I would have ended up there, but I didn't know anything or have any interest in AP at the time.
If you want to try it, make sure the bottle you get ONLY contains DXM.  Most kinds of Robotussin have other ingredients in it except for Robotussin Maximum Strength Cough. (I'm 95% sure that's what it's called) Just look on the back of the bottle before you buy it and make sure DXM is the only ingredient.
(oh, and TRY to get it all down at once, because it tastes so bad that if you don't get it all down, you won't want to drink the rest)[]

[What Tha Phak]

Is there anyone in here who have had a spontaneous OBE or AP induced experienced through any other drugs?  

Anyone AP while high? shrooms? DXM? Tell of your drug experiences.

[assia]

LOL! I spell God's name as L.O.V.E. (not D.R.U.G.S.), and that makes a difference in my answer to the thread's initial question, I suppose.

If the goal of the experience is the experience itself (AP, OBE), then it's logical to assume that any means of achieving it (including drugs) should be good and useful.

If, however, the goal is unity with the divine, self-and God-knowledge, then the externals (like OBE and Ap) are simply side-effects we experience on the journey and inducing them with drugs does little to help you arrive at your destination and may even prevent you from reaching it.

Throughout this thread I see an underlying theme that "everything is relative," i.e., only you can decide if drugs are right for you.  I don't agree.

Ontological absolutes do exist. What may be relative is our understanding and acceptance of them, our willingness to respect them as realities that can form our lives and our decisions.  If it's an uncomfortable subject, one that causes us to have to think logically, assume responsibility, or suffer some internal discomfort when others disagee with us, then the everything-is-relative argument always does the trick

1. "Don't knock it if you haven't tried it."

I've never bought that argument; a very poor one, with little logical weight.  

I've never tried arsenic, but I know what it can do in one large dose or small doses over time.  I certainly can state a particular drug can be harmful if there is sufficient research to show its effects.

2. No one can decide for another what is good for them or not.

If next week someone here said Russian roulette was a great way to "open your mind up" (by opening your head) and everyone agreed, should I be silent or go with the flow so everyone will think I'm "tolerant" and fair-minded? After all, who am I to tell you it's dangerous, stupid, or immature?

Rules exist within societies based on community and individual needs. We have social rules against murder and theft and child abuse and an assortment of other things. It is possible for people to know what is good/bad for others and themselves.

Enough research has been done on dissociative and seratonic drugs used by dabblers in recreational spirituality to know that many of them can be dangerous with long-term moderate use or high dosage,  short-term usage.

3. You are disrespecting age-old religious cultures if you say drugs shouldn't be used in spiritual practices.

The point you all are missing here is that natural drugs were not used indiscriminately within those cultures. Shamans, priests, spiritual leaders placed conditions on and supervised their use; in most instances, the person was required to accept the responsibility of and training in discipleship before the use of those drugs. Drugs use in spiritual practices was supervised and controlled.

What I see in this advocated in this thread is the indiscriminate use of these drugs, without a true sense of responsibility, or a willingness to be trained properly in their use.

We're not talking a shaman suggesting mushrooms for a Vision quest here. Be honest with yourselves. We're talking mostly about recreational spirituality, which generally lacks any long term discipline, clear spiritual direction, and is regulated only by what the user determines is "relatively" good for hirself.

So, for me, if God is spelled L.O.V.E., then any spiritual practice should bring the person closer to being that love, understanding what it is, how it operates, and how we can use it to help ourselves,  others and the world.

If God is spelled D.R.U.G.S., then the ultimate goal is probably self-pleasure and ego-stimulation. As such, I'd venture to say it has little to do with the true spiritual journey.

[DOA]

When you use drugs to have altered states of consciouness continued use damages your subtle bodies.  Repeated use causes permenat damage.  There are certain energies that are filtered or kept out of your aura that with a damaged energy body get through.  Taking drugs damages the physical body why would you think it wouldnt damage the subtle bodies?  

DOA

[ronaldo]

hi

i had some skunk a few weeks ago i was lying on my bed chilling then my crown chakra started going crazy i think i could have quite easily projected but i felt totally paranoid and thought that negs might come after me so i had to get up

[Amber]

Assia,
very well written. Amen.

DOA, I have also heard that drug use injures your energetic body, including prescriptions, because it forces your perception to shift without control.

On the topic of forced OOBE's from drug use, a friend of mine OD'd on cocaine and LSD (simultaneously) while on a camping/party trip with some friends. When she passed out in the tent, her friends stayed with her all night, while her body convulsed wildly. She woke up the next day, standing in front of the tent! And it took her many months before she could remember fully what she had experienced during the OD, but at one point she does remember seeing her body laying there with her friends holding it. And moving through the universe as a ghost. I suppose this would come under the heading NDE, though.

With love,
Amber

[beav31is]

DOA "Taking drugs damages the physical body why would you think it wouldnt damage the subtle bodies?"

Getting sliced up with a sword and lots of other stuff damages the physical body only.



Amanita Muscaria is a LEGAL mushroom that induces an OBE.

[Crimson]

quote:Originally posted by beav31is

DOA "Taking drugs damages the physical body why would you think it wouldnt damage the subtle bodies?"

Getting sliced up with a sword and lots of other stuff damages the physical body only.



Amanita Muscaria is a LEGAL mushroom that induces an OBE.

I think it was a good question, actually, beavis...I can imagine your astral body suffers some "fluxs" but nothing major....I can IMAGINE....I don't know...very interesting question...never thought about that...my regards to the author!

I've heard most drugs like marijuana and cannabis/THC/LSD/angel dust, etc etc etc. stimulate a certain area of the brain, excuse my slowness-i know that's what we've been talking about all this thread-, but is it possible that these drugs could actually CLOSE and depress those areas? Like with eating sugary sweets...sure, a couple feel good and highten your senses-but in the long run you can suffer from obesity and toothlessness. Does that make any sense?

[Greytraveller]

There have been reports of people experiencing OBEs while using drugs (LSD, ketamine, datura, DXM and others). Yet nearly all of those projections were unplanned and uncontrolled.
So far I have yet to see any comprehensive experiment to try to induce deliberate, controlled projections using any of those substances. There does seem to be a lack of serious intent in this regard. Maybe there have been such attempts by a few psychonauts. Yet it appears that most people are only recreational users.

[What Tha Phak]

First thing I'd like to say is..

"ARRARRROUOUHGAOUEUORRGGHFFJKKKKTH!!!"

I typed up this extra long, extrememly thoughtful post and lost it cuz i got disconnected..  Reluctant and frustrated I typed it again and made all my points and thoughts... THE POWER GOES OUT!!!  So here i am again.. but im ticked so ill make it short and to the point.

What does everyone think about drugs?  I know that statement is VERY broad.  There are hundreds of drugs out there with their own unique effect, but I'm talking the likes of Marijuana, magic mushrooms, LSD, masculine, peyote, and such psychadelics as those.

Can anyone actually explain the metaphysics of smokin the reefer (weed)?  What does it do to your consciousness/awareness during the high?  I've been exposed to so many people's experiences and scientific documents explaining the chemical reactions of the THC, shoot, I even regularly use it myself, but that doesn't really explain ANYTHING!

Theres so much more to say but i dont wanna say it all, ill save it for more replies.  

I personally have done shrooms 3 times but when i did them, I'd consider myself, at that time, a LOT less mentally developed and was unaware of the effect's  higher potential.  Aztec tribes called magic mushrooms "skin of the gods."  I also see, for myself, a remarkable likeness of the mushrooms formation, and brain formation.  Just, visually compare the two.

What is so special about acid (LSD)?  I hear some people say they see their future/death/purpose in life from the drug. And come up with the brilliant ideas to better the society of mankind.  Im gonna wait on experimenting with it until im a much more matured.

Does anyone think that upon doing a certain drug, it would eliminate the capability of performing an OBE?  It's just something I always wondered, like if there were something out there that f@cks you up so much that it perminatley bonds your awareness to your body?  The idea seems a little farfetched, but it has always scared me, though I kind of doubt it.

OK ive already said too much, ill save the rest for future posts and replies. [|)]