First, let me begin by saying that I am an extreme skeptic. There was a time in my life years ago where I put more stock in all of this but now, although I will not discount it, I won't actively believe in it. My fiance believes in it fully and got a bit concerned for me. She is a very intelligent woman and I have no doubts on that whatsoever. I also believe that I have several other possible explanations that I personally believe more valid but I won't discuss them. They don't explain the feeling the experience gave me and I would like to investigate that some.
I just wanted anyone responding to know where I'm coming from when I tell you the experience.
It's not all that complicated really. I was lying in my bed, just thinking like most people do. Just in general about philosophy and whatever. I started thinking about the world, I don't recall what exactly but I suddenly felt whole. I can't describe it any other way. And then I started zooming out from Earth quickly. I felt full of the universe. The solar system, the galaxy, the local clusters. Then further and further. I saw every galaxy, the universe, spread out like a galaxy of galaxies. A multiverse of universes in clusters all obeying the same laws that everything else does. Onward and upward. I snapped my eyes open in a blind panic with my heart beating. I still felt full and whole remnants. The whole time I was zooming out it was like I was sucked onward. I had no control or volition in it, it was more like I was ripped outward, kind of like how you'd be sucked out of a door if it suddenly opened to a vacuum.
Any thoughts?
Congratulations! It sounds like you were successful.
You have been a member here since April 29th 2005. What do you think happened?
Quote from: Lionheart on January 14, 2013, 00:19:48
Congratulations! It sounds like you were successful.
You have been a member here since April 29th 2005. What do you think happened?
It wouldn't have been a success unless it was my intent to cause something. So, I'm wondering what might have yanked me out of my body, assuming that's what happened.
I was a member here for a little while when I was much younger. I haven't been on here really since then. I wouldn't put much stock in how long I've been a member. I just remembered the site and decided to see what this place thought
Quote from: LeonPrimrose on January 13, 2013, 23:20:08
I started thinking about the world, I don't recall what exactly but I suddenly felt whole. I can't describe it any other way. And then I started zooming out from Earth quickly. I felt full of the universe. The solar system, the galaxy, the local clusters. Then further and further. I saw every galaxy, the universe, spread out like a galaxy of galaxies. A multiverse of universes in clusters all obeying the same laws that everything else does. Onward and upward. I snapped my eyes open in a blind panic with my heart beating. I still felt full and whole remnants. The whole time I was zooming out it was like I was sucked onward. I had no control or volition in it, it was more like I was ripped outward, kind of like how you'd be sucked out of a door if it suddenly opened to a vacuum.
If you don't call this a success than I don't know what kind of answer you are looking.
Most new members here would give their left leg for an adventure like this! :-)
My thoughts exactly Lionheart.
I doubt anything yanked you out. Sounds like a profound experience.
Success would be tied to intent in my opinion. I wasn't doing anything to try to make it happen and as I said, I'm an extreme skeptic. I don't actively believe in this but I'd like to explore the possibility. My fiancee also believes that it can be dangerous to do things like that accidentally, sort of like diving into unknown, cloudy water. Aside from that, I wanted to see if anyone had any more information on how and why that may have happened without me trying to make it happen.
Quote from: LeonPrimrose on January 13, 2013, 23:20:08
And then I started zooming out from Earth quickly. I felt full of the universe. The solar system, the galaxy, the local clusters. Then further and further. I saw every galaxy, the universe, spread out like a galaxy of galaxies. A multiverse of universes
Congrats. Lucky you :-D
This description sounds similar to what neurosurgeon
Dr. Eben Alexanderexperienced during his Near Death Experience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN8bsq2Ic-4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN8bsq2Ic-4)
at 3.30 mins
~
Quote from: LeonPrimrose on January 14, 2013, 07:07:21
Success would be tied to intent in my opinion. I wasn't doing anything to try to make it happen and as I said, I'm an extreme skeptic. I don't actively believe in this but I'd like to explore the possibility. My fiancee also believes that it can be dangerous to do things like that accidentally, sort of like diving into unknown, cloudy water. Aside from that, I wanted to see if anyone had any more information on how and why that may have happened without me trying to make it happen.
Reread what you wrote before. You were lying in bed thinking as most people do. Just about philosophy and whatever. You then created a intent, but you use the words that you started thinking about the World. The intent you created was in thinking about the World. Do you understand what I'm saying now? You had a target, thought pattern which started with thinking of the World. That put this scenario into motion.
If you were thinking of dogs, you may have started a scenario where you saw many different breeds of dogs, or dogs at a dog show. It starts with your initial thought.
Dangerous how? You go to sleep everynight and shift to the Non Physical Reality (NPR). Is that dangerous too?
Again, you did make it happen by thought. In the NPR thought=action.
Dangerous in the sense of a little spec diving into murky water. Without knowing fully what's in the Aether that might see the splash
Nothing can hurt you... besides, you are already in the ocean.. whoever is there knows you are. You becoming aware of your nonphysical doesn't light it up a beacon for all the dark entities to come shuffling towards you through the ether... it doesn't work like that. You are already there.
If you believe you will be encountered by things in the midsts of the 'cloudy water' then you will only take this fear and give it form. :)
I'm not afraid. Like I said in my first post, I can't even say that I believe in this. I can explain this with a pre-dream lucid DMT trip. I'm just seeing how the rabbit hole looks. I was just explaining her fears.
http://www.erinpavlina.com/blog/2006/12/the-dangers-of-astral-projection/ (http://www.erinpavlina.com/blog/2006/12/the-dangers-of-astral-projection/)
That's similar to the way she describes it. The manner that you would have to be separate from your body when you project would make it more vulnerable.
Maybe you should be asking Erin instead of us. You seem to like her answer better.
Many here have been doing this for a long, long time. Your first adventures are usually scary because of the fear you create of the unknown. You are not in full control of the situation and that's too much for some people to handle.
Tom Campbell talks about the fear in his video here. The portion you want to hear starts at 1:00:00 and goes until 1:07:00
But that entire video would be very helpful in helping you understand what it is we are all doing here.
Bedeekin talks about the fear in his excellent sticky found here: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/sleep_paralysis_the_whats_whys_and_wherefores-t38734.0.html
Another unexpected result. Its part of the picture. Being an open-minded skeptic is excellent news. Stay open and learn the art. It should be easy for you.
The bit about being away from your body, forget it, you really dont know the complexities of this art at all. Its supermassive and this physical life is a grain of sand on a beach.
You are very safe.
Quote from: LeonPrimrose on January 14, 2013, 18:15:37
I'm not afraid. Like I said in my first post, I can't even say that I believe in this. I can explain this with a pre-dream lucid DMT trip. I'm just seeing how the rabbit hole looks. I was just explaining her fears.
http://www.erinpavlina.com/blog/2006/12/the-dangers-of-astral-projection/ (http://www.erinpavlina.com/blog/2006/12/the-dangers-of-astral-projection/)
That's similar to the way she describes it. The manner that you would have to be separate from your body when you project would make it more vulnerable.
When you say DMT do you mean Endogenously produced DMT; bio-manufactured by the pineal gland?
I am quite skeptic about the ability for the Pineal gland to acetylate Melatonin to convert it into DMT or that it is DMT on brain effects we are experiencing when having an OOBE.
I was once well with Strassman on that after reading the 'Spirit Molecule' and associated material until I read more about the pineal gland and became curious about making my own DMT extraction. I then made my own DMT from Mimosa Hostilis about 3 years ago. I experimented a bit and found the 'trip' that DMT creates is vastly different from a natural OOBE or nonphysical experience. In quality and way of being. The only time I can connect OOBEs with DMT is that on a few occasions and recently I simulated a DMT trip within the nonphysical experience. Whether this was me creating the DMT endogenously specifically triggered by the experience or it was me constructing the DMT 'effects' from memory I can't say.
It does seem logical that when you are 'separated' there must be a vacancy left in the body for something unwanted to occupy it the moment the opportunity presents itself. But this scenario only presents itself if there is a belief that SOMETHING of substance leaves in the first place.
It could be anything that relates to dreaming. The mind is strong. It's more logical to believe that an OoBE relates to dreaming in ANY way than to believe that it is possible to leave your body by willing it. But I'm not here to debate whether or not astral projection is real or not. I'm here, therefore I'm giving the benefit of the doubt in discussion and will operate under the assumption that it is.
Could you elaborate on what you mean? the belief that something of substance leaves?
Sure.
Well based upon my own experience nothing leaves the body. It isn't a ghostly part of me or a subtle atomic counterpart of myself. I maybe did when I first started because that's what it felt like.
Also it is evident that the reason nothing leaves the body during an OOBE is because of dual consciousness; of being at a location in the nonphysical and being aware of being in bed at the same time, sometimes resulting in overlaid vision.
An OOBE can be better thought of as the perception of complete awareness being in the state of 'NOW' shifted into noticing and being part of the nonphysical reality instead of this physical reality.
A much more common use of this is the daydream. When we daydream we completely dissociate from our surroundings... nothing has left... only your attention has left to mull over your daydream... act out its intent.
I was under the impression that the entire purpose of astral projection was to have the soul leave the body.
Ha.. well... That wouldn't be very productive would it.... then any little nasty could just jump in there and take control! :-D
I don't see it as being a 'purpose' though - to have the soul leave. I didn't have a purpose for them when it all started.
Maybe purpose is an improper word, but you know what I meant. That leaves the question of defining it as an "out of body experience" if you're not ACTUALLY out of your body. but that's the worry right there. It would come down to what you believe astral projection is: if it's just an extension, as you say, then it's pretty much completely harmless but it also makes me less likely to believe that that astral projection would be anything more than just using your imagination, or if you're actually leaving your body behind. The second case has some possible dangers. I think that the second is more likely the case personally because I know what imagination feels like and I know what lucid dreaming feels like and this was neither of those.
Out of Body is just a term like Astral Projection.. Phasing is also a term. The semantics behind the wording should be discarded.
It is down to belief. Some believe it's a spirit.. some the Astral body... some the Etheric body.
You are just getting my personal views on it. Many people would agree though.
Fair enough :) I appreciate the input, of course. Could you explain why you have your personal view? any particular reasoning? Or more experience based?
Quote from: Bedeekin on January 14, 2013, 21:01:26
Out of Body is just a term like Astral Projection.. Phasing is also a term. The semantics behind the wording should be discarded.
It is down to belief. Some believe it's a spirit.. some the Astral body... some the Etheric body.
You are just getting my personal views on it. Many people would agree though.
I agree! :)
Quote from: LeonPrimrose on January 14, 2013, 21:26:30
Or more experience based?
Experienced based opinions.
Just because your physical body doesn't really exist doesn't mean you don't have to deal with it. Everything may be consciousness, but you still exist in a manner where you have to navigate through it. Time and space are illusory, but I still experience it. That's why I hesitate explaining things to newbies that seem contrary to what naturally seems obvious. Just knowing it in your head doesn't help anything when you're in the astral and looking at a body you're in. Until you fully realize it yourself, it can make things confusing.
Quote from: Stookie_ on January 15, 2013, 12:10:15
Just because your physical body doesn't really exist doesn't mean you don't have to deal with it. Everything may be consciousness, but you still exist in a manner where you have to navigate through it. Time and space are illusory, but I still experience it. That's why I hesitate explaining things to newbies that seem contrary to what naturally seems obvious. Just knowing it in your head doesn't help anything when you're in the astral and looking at a body you're in. Until you fully realize it yourself, it can make things confusing.
Relative physics are counter intuitive. The difference between explaining something like that and explaining something like this to a "newbie" is that in order to explain this, both parties would have to take it on faith that it's real with no skepticism. However, taking this in that manner would be no different than having faith in a religion. I won't take anything on faith like that, therefore I'm a "newbie". If you can't explain it in a manner that someone that doesn't take your word at face value will be able to grasp and comprehend it, then it's an unsound argument and should be disregarded anyway. Try me.
Quote from: LeonPrimrose on January 15, 2013, 15:41:21
Relative physics are counter intuitive. The difference between explaining something like that and explaining something like this to a "newbie" is that in order to explain this, both parties would have to take it on faith that it's real with no skepticism. However, taking this in that manner would be no different than having faith in a religion. I won't take anything on faith like that, therefore I'm a "newbie". If you can't explain it in a manner that someone that doesn't take your word at face value will be able to grasp and comprehend it, then it's an unsound argument and should be disregarded anyway. Try me.
You have very eloquently stated exactly what the problem is right there.
To change your reality you need to change your mindset first.
To change your mindset you need to prove what's real and what isn't to yourself. No matter what anyone says, you can argue they are wrong, because of the simple fact that none of this has been proven as 100% true. But if you BELIEVE it to be true, than it is to you and that's all that's important.
We are not here to change other people's viewpoint of what is or what isn't. We are only here to help others to experience the NPR for themselves. Then they can answer their own questions from their own experiences of what it is or isn't.
Did you get a chance to watch that video by Tom Campbell? He goes into the Physics viewpoint of all of this because he is an acclaimed Professor of Physics. He was also hired by NASA and a other organizations as a "threat assessor", so he must know something. He uses science to explain what is and what isn't.
He also makes it well known that this is HIS own theory and that he just wants people to listen or read it with an open mind. But to experience it for themselves before coming to their own conclusion.
Quote from: Lionheart on January 15, 2013, 15:57:57
You have very eloquently stated exactly what the problem is right there.
To change your reality you need to change your mindset first.
To change your mindset you need to prove what's real and what isn't to yourself. No matter what anyone says, you can argue they are wrong, because of the simple fact that none of this has been proven as 100% true. But if you BELIEVE it to be true, than it is to you and that's all that's important.
We are not here to change other people's viewpoint of what is or what isn't. We are only here to help others to experience the NPR for themselves. Then they can answer their own questions from their own experiences of what it is or isn't.
Did you get a chance to watch that video by Tom Campbell? He goes into the Physics viewpoint of all of this because he is an acclaimed Professor of Physics. He was also hired by NASA and a other organizations as a "threat assessor", so he must know something. He uses science to explain what is and what isn't.
He also makes it well known that this is HIS own theory and that he just wants people to listen or read it with an open mind. But to experience it for themselves before coming to their own conclusion.
I did. The section that you mentioned sounded very similar to my experience. I do actually have an open mind but I need to approach it logically. I actually have no problem with the possibility of all of this. It can be made logical. I just didn't appreciate being referred to as "newbie" in the manner that was stated. It came off to me as accusing me of narrow-mindedness when accusing someone of that because of skepticism is narrow-minded. I'm sure he didn't mean it that way. It was just worded in that way to me. So I responded to that.
Quote from: LeonPrimrose on January 14, 2013, 21:26:30
Fair enough :) I appreciate the input, of course. Could you explain why you have your personal view? any particular reasoning? Or more experience based?
When I first started I didn't know what it was but came up with what it must be. I was completely without faith. My family wasn't that religious and I just didn't particularly believe in god; it sounded absolutely ridiculous. I was 11. My religious studies teacher hated me.
That's changed over the years as certain preconceived ideas dropped away and new ones have formed. Like a process of elimination and the addition of new understanding. After repeating the same thing night after night you get to understand what is likely to be and what isn't.
If I had stopped after my first 10 experiences I would still think to this day it was my soul leaving my body and traveling about at will. I would also believe that Sleep Paralysis was evil and I could probably be possessed.
Quote from: LeonPrimrose on January 15, 2013, 16:26:54
It came off to me as accusing me of narrow-mindedness when accusing someone of that because of skepticism is narrow-minded. I'm sure he didn't mean it that way. It was just worded in that way to me. So I responded to that.
My mistake, I wasn't referring to you, I was speaking very generally about how tricky it is to communicate these types of ideas to people who have yet to experience it. It becomes philosophical and theoretical, and like you the comparison you made, it can be like a religion... all you've got is faith until you experience it yourself. I apologize for any confusion. :)