My problems with AP - I'd appreciate any help/answers I can get! :-)

[kingal]

Hello!

I've been reading up on astral projection for several months now and I've been attempting to astrally project 2x a day for the last couple of months. The problem is I feel as though I'm getting nowhere! I've noticed that there are already several threads where others have said the same thing but I figured it'd be better for me to make my own thread since everyone responds differently to common techniques etc. Please excuse the long post but I'd really appreciate it if someone experienced could give me some pointers so I don't lose my motivation

I'll start off by saying I've never had a lucid dream/astral projection in my life that I'm aware of (which leads me to believe I'm not a natural at this ). The closest thing that I've had I believe, is sorta nightmares where I've woken up and had hallucinations that bees/spiders/wasps/bugs (yes I have a phobia of them heheh) are crawling all over my pillow. At the time they seem 100% real but after a few seconds I realise what's going on and snap out of it. I don't know if this has any relevance but I thought I'd throw it out there!

Anyway having spoken to various other people on various forums, I've heard that concentration is the key to these things? This makes sense as it seems that the skill is to allow your body to naturally fall asleep while you keep your mind focused and awake (please correct me if I'm wrong though!). Therefore I've spent a lot of time practicing candle meditation. I started by just focusing on the flame for a few minutes with my eyes open, then closing my eyes and trying to picture the flame in my mind. I found this very difficult though as I don't seem to be very good at picturing things - I can't seem to get a clear image and the image seems to be moving around all the time.. it's like I can't lock it down properly. I did however find out a different strategy of focusing on the flame for a few minutes to start with, then closing your eyes and focusing on the after-image, which I actually found easier as I can see something clearly to focus on.. at least until the image fades away. Anyhoo.. I've been doing this for 15-20minutes every evening just before bed and I'm trying to increase the amount of time I do it for.. this is mainly an exercise in improving my concentration but I can't really tell how well it's working.

As for actually trying to project.. I do this when I get home from work. I get the train home from work and I usually just drift off during this time so I'm pretty relaxed by the time I actualy get home. I then lie down in bed and try to fully relax my body, limb by limb etc and try to fall asleep while keeping my mind awake. At first I used to do this in a chair and I'd often become very relaxed to the point where I'd hit the point just before sleep (I think this is called the hpnogogic state?) and I'd have a very weird experience of being able to picture things with incredible clarity but by the time I've realised this I usually fall asleep! It's a very weird thing to put into words because I'm obviously not fully concious when it happens.. but I have the faint memory that I was in some weird state where I could picture an object or surface or something in incredible detail.. and it's like my concentration is far wider.. like I can concentrate on several things at once if that makes sense?

The good thing about doing this in a chair was, just before I fell asleep, my head would nod off and It'd wake me up again.. but I could never hold myself consistently in this state. I'd always start off by picturing a candle flame in my head/trying to concentrate on breathing but no matter how hard I try, I keep drifting off into other thoughts eventually and then BANG, asleep. I often found when I opened my eyes and became fully awake again, I had pins and needles in my hands and couldn't feel my fingers.. I'm not sure this has any relevance though.

I decided to switch to lying down on a bed after several recommendations. I also switched to trying to count from 0 upwards in my head. I try to picture each number and so far I'm liking it as it gives me an idea of how long I was able to hold my concentration for. I managed to count up to 160 something the other day before I lost concentration (3-4 seconds inbetween counts) but unfortunately I fell asleep again. Is counting in my head even a good method for reaching deep enough relaxation for an AP?

So in summary, I spend a good 15-20minutes every evening trying to practice candle meditation and then I have a 45-60minute practice when I get home from work but this often ends up in sleep/frustration!

I'm really not sure what I should be doing though. I don't know if my candle meditation should be continued.. or whether I should switch it up for something else or just focus on trying to astral project in bed? I really don't know what I should be doing! Like I said though, if anyone has been in this position before or can offer me any tips on what to do next, I'd greatly appreciate it!

Thanks for reading! 

[kingal]

Anyone able to offer any advice?

[CFTraveler]

There's no problem with the candle meditation- it's good training.
But now that you've identified the problem (you are losing consciousness when your trance gets deeper) you should add some things to your routine, to keep your mind alert and occupied instead of letting it get 'sucked in'to your hypnagogics and lose it-
I recommend you continue to do what you've been doing, but when you get to the point of hypnagogia, start doing some sort of active meditation technique, like listening to your earhiss, doing energy body loosening methods, and if you're still awake, and are still having some sort of symptom (hypnagogics, noises, vibes) then move to an exit technique or two.  And no matter what happens, keep trying an exit until you either pass out or wake up completely.

[radman32]

Why would he want to continue his exiting until he passes out? Wouldn't you want to consciencly exit and experience/remember that?

[kingal]

Thanks for the replies. CFTraveler.. I'll keep doing what I'm doing with the candle meditation, but I'm wondering whether I should try to extend the duration I do it for? At the moment I do it for 15-20 minutes but maybe I should try to increase this? What is a 'suitable' time to meditate for?

I'll try to do what you're saying when I reach the hypnagogic state.. only problem is I find I'm usually so unaware of my state of mind that I'd just lose focus and drift off into sleep. I guess practice makes perfect!

[astrowytch]

Hi Kingal. If you are trying this when you get in from work and are that tired you will fall asleep. try it during times when you are not tired and maybe concentrate on some soft music. Do you do this in your bedroom on your bed? In your mind your bedroom is the place for sleep and sleep would come naturally. So try doing this in another room where you dont sleep. everyone is different so experiment, see what works for you. I always do it in my bedroom, mainly cos I have children and my room is my sanctuary. When I started trying ap and understood about the hypnagogic state I had trouble getting into that state but found that actually getting into bed as if I were going to sleep helped to trick my body into sleep. I eventually reached the hypanagogic state in that way! Now I know, I dont get into the bed anymore but lay on top of it. So you see its different for everyone. keep trying and experimenting. good luck. sorry... also it took a good hour or so for me to slip into hypnagogic state at first but now sometimes its only 20 mins. Less chance of falling asleep as the process gets integrated and easier.

[kingal]

Thanks for the reply astro. The reason I try to do this when I get in from work and why I lie on my bed is because I want to fall asleep. Or rather, I want to make it easier for my body to fall asleep . The only problem is I can't seem to keep my awareness up.. and so usually do fall asleep unfortunately. Got any tips?

I'm wondering what my plan of action should be really. If I try to AP once a day when I get home from work for like an hour.. and then doing a 15-20 minute candle meditation just before bed, would this be sufficient? I'm not really sure what I should be doing..

[CFTraveler]

Frankly, I personally don't try every day- I meditate  and do energy work every day but I only try to project about once a week.  I think that projection attempts take a lot of energy and can exhaust you.  I prefer to not put any pressure on myself and do what replenishes me.
It's ok to meditate as long as you can (and want to), but if you are going to increase the time do it gradually.
I agree with Astrowytch in that you should try at other times, especially early in the morning, about one to two hours before normal wake-up time.

The reason I try to do this when I get in from work and why I lie on my bed is because I want to fall asleep. Or rather, I want to make it easier for my body to fall asleep .

This is a sure way to go asleep, and that is not what you're trying to do.

[kingal]

Thanks again for the response. I just have one more question though. Do you know when you've had an astral projection? How does it differ from reality.. and surely after you have the experience it would greatly alter your beliefs?

Thanks!

[CFTraveler]

Well, in waking reality I usually don't get out of my body and fly around, so that's all I can tell you about the difference.
As to altering my beliefs?  Not really, I don't have a whole lot of them.