NDE (Near Death Experience) versus astral projection?

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

There seems to be some similarities between NDE's and astral projection but NDE's seem to differ. I searched to find that nobody has talked about this here. Anyway, can you all expound on the differences and similarities between the two. Here is what I think. This is just based off of my research. I have only astral projected once or twice for only a few seconds. So I am not experienced enough to truly compare the two.

Correct me if I am wrong or off on any of these things.

Similarities:
Separated from their body and in another parallel dimension.
May or may not see things going on in the physical.
Flying abilities.
Telepathic communication.
Consciousness is increased dramatically way past normal physical consciousness. Some more than others.
Senses are dramatically enhanced.
They can manifest thoughts and emotions.

Differences:
In NDE's you much more likely to go down a white tunnel and meet relatives.
In NDE's you much more likely to have a life review especially given the amount of time you are given in a NDE versus an astral projection.
See very power things, eg angels, great truths, God etc. This is not so much in astral projection considering the amount of time a projector has.
"This is just my personal opinion. In an NDE you more apt to end up in a hell realm especially if you have a really negative experience just before death. Eg shooting yourself, having a terrible accident just before death. These things can dramatize our consciousness into a hell realm at death. Though most NDE's are heavenly or neutral in nature."

In the end it could be the that when the body is close to death that it releases chemicals that can effect where the NDE'er can go and how powerful the experience is. So in the end NDE's seem to be more dramatic while astral projection seems to be more mundane in comparison. This is a general statement.

Can you all elaborate and correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks, peace.

[desert-rat]

I think where you go in the astral depends on personal beliefs .  If some one believes in hell , and thinks or knows they belong there there is were they will go .   If some one is a native American and believes in the happy hunting ground that is where they will go .  Heaven , hell , the happy hunting ground , ect were created by thoes that believe in them .  There are posts hear on this .  If one is practicing a.p. as opposed to having a major health problem (nde) they can chose where to go .  desert rat 

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

I agree desert rat.

[todd421757]

Here is a link to my post that may answer part of your question.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/etheric_projections_are_the_same_as_ndes-t37510.0.html

There really is no difference between the two. But, it appears that there is a lot of differences as you have pointed out. These differences may be like you said because of the DMT chemical being released at death. Otherwise they are the same. Take away the DMT chemical from the NDE experience and you have an etheric projection with full awareness and full control.

[desert-rat]

Hear is a link on a post started by me , but there are others if you search .       http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/hell2-t37080.0.html              desert rat  

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Let me just make it clear here that someone taking DMT is MUCH different than any endogenous psychedelics released at death. Both can give you an OBE (Out of Body Experience) though. IMHO any psychedelics released at death would give one a much more natural experience than any DMT you can ingest or smoke here. I would also imagine that the kinds of and amounts of endogenous psychedelics released at death could guide the the person to a more natural experience through the light and then a destination than taking DMT while alive. Meaning just as our brains release natural amounts of DMT in our bodies even now, conversely at the time of death DMT and other tryptamines would be released in a natural amount as to not give hallucinations. At least not overly so. This is a general statement.

Peace.

[todd421757]

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/dmt.html

According to the link above Dr Rick Strassman's DMT research states Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is a naturally occurring neurotransmitter similar in structure to serotonin. He theorizes that it is created in trace amounts by the pineal gland during normal metabolism, and may be released in massive amounts during birth, death, hallucinations and dreams.

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

todd421757 IMHO DMT and other endogenous tryptamines are best at getting one of out the body at death and into the light. At which time they are probably minimally influenced by any bodily tryptamines since they are out of body anyway and our bodies would not make as much DMT as what Strassman would use.

Peace.

[todd421757]

I totally agree with you.

But with any drug or chemical induced experience (whether natural or not), you do not have total awareness and control of the experience. It is a passive experience prone to reality fluctuations and hallucinations. Some past life regressionists state the dead relatives at the end of the tunnel are hallucinations.

I believe the NDE chemical stage can be avoided just like dreams can be avoided if you have full awareness during the death and sleep experience, respectively.

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

I agree todd.

[Lionheart]

 NDE's have more awareness than your common OBE's because at the time the person doesn't have a physical focus to go back to. So the NPR becomes their entire focus! 

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

NDE's have more awareness than your common OBE's because at the time the person doesn't have a physical focus to go back to. So the NPR becomes their entire focus! 

I think I know what you mean but what does NPR mean?

[Lionheart]

 Non Physical Reality

[Volgerle]

Some past life regressionists state the dead relatives at the end of the tunnel are hallucinations.

I've mostly read the opposite, and I have read many books by past life therapists and their transcripts. How can they or anyone decide if they are 'real' or not, anyway?
I have heard another theory (moslty with regard to ADC but it might apply to NDEs too) that makes most sense to me and it leaves open the question a little as to we consider it 'really' the spirits of the relatives or not:  sometimes if it's not the 'real' relative, they are like 'recorded messages' of the spirits transmitted to the experiencer via guides. So it is real or not real, however you look at it. It's like they hand over a (love) letter or something. I don't know if guides would also pose as relatives, I rather think not. I do not think either they are hallucinations because for me hallucinations do not exist in the first place. Even thought forms have their reality.

[catmeow]

NDE's have more awareness than your common OBE's because at the time the person doesn't have a physical focus to go back to. So the NPR becomes their entire focus! 

I agree with this. By and large, NDErs are much more likely to experience expanded consciousness than OBErs. They are also much more likely to have cosmic awareness (knowledge of all things) and also their observations of the physical world tend to be accurate and undistorted. Much more so than with OBEs.

Like Lionheart, I assume that this is due to the absence of a living physical body, which tends to cloud the experience in some way (which I don't understand).

Regarding DMT there is some debate as to whether the pineal gland is able to release DMT in sufficient quantities at death, to actually be the cause of NDEs. Actually, the idea that the pineal gland releases DMT in this way at death is conjecture anyway.

[todd421757]

I agree with this. By and large, NDErs are much more likely to experience expanded consciousness than OBErs.

This is generally true except in the mind-split cases where someone has an OBE while they are walking or doing some activity. They have the expanded awareness, and they still have a physical body to go back to.

[catmeow]

This is generally true except in the mind-split cases where someone has an OBE while they are walking or doing some activity. They have the expanded awareness, and they still have a physical body to go back to.

Yes, it's true. Also in these mind-split cases, observations of the physical environment tend to be accurate and fantasy free too. I think I prefer to call mind-split type OBEs "spontaneous OBEs", as opposed to "induced OBEs".  Since by definition, NDEs are spontaneous, I suggest that it is the spontaneous nature of OBEs and NDEs which has something to do with their clarity and veracity. Perhaps there is something about the act of "forcing" an OBE which reduces its clarity?

[todd421757]

Perhaps there is something about the act of "forcing" an OBE which reduces its clarity?

This is a good question. It could be true that forcing an OBE reduces its clarity.

Or another theory could be NDE's during traumas and mind split OBE's during physical activities do not involve any type of sleep or sleep paralysis. Maybe if a person could form the ability to induce an OBE while the physical body remained awake, then there would be excellent clarity with no reality fluctuations.

I had one OBE a few months ago where my physical body was still awake during the vibrational separation stage. The physical body was shaking a lot on the bed according to my girlfriend. I was able to slip out of my body through my feet while my physical body was technically still moving. It was a very realistic OBE. There was no doubt it was a genuine OBE that involved no physical body shut down phase.

Another example would be one time I had an OBE within 2 seconds of lying down for bed. It was also a very realistic OBE. My physical body may have been still awake since the OBE only took 2 seconds to happen.

I wonder if there are any reports of someone who had a NDE in the middle of the night while there physical body was sleeping, and they had no reality fluctuations?

[catmeow]

Or another theory could be NDE's during traumas and mind split OBE's during physical activities do not involve any type of sleep or sleep paralysis. Maybe if a person could form the ability to induce an OBE while the physical body remained awake, then there would be excellent clarity with no reality fluctuations.

Well I have a pet theory, that the physical body has its own consciousness (which dies with the physical body) and the astral body has its own separate consciousness (which continues after physical death).  In the mind split or spontaneous type OBE, the physical consciousness is fully occupied with the task of looking after the waking physical body. But when the physical body is asleep, perhaps part of the physical consciousness mingles with astral consciousness and kind of dilutes it, reducing its clarity. Just a thought.

[todd421757]

Thanks Catmeow for that information. I think your theory is absolutely correct. Two sets of consciousness would fit my descriptions of my OBE's perfectly. Etheric projections use mainly physical consciousness with a little astral consciousness, while astral projection would use mainly astral consciousness along with a little physical consciousness.

Your theory would also explain Muldoon findings. He states he is in an etheric projection for up to 15 feet, then it switches over to astral projection at that point. So he is actually using his physical consciousness for the first 15 feet, then he switches over to astral consciousness after 15 feet with a little physical consciousness mixed in.

This would also explain reality fluctuations. In the RTZ, you are using mainly physical consciousness with a little astral consciousness. This astral consciousness is creating the RTZ fluctuations.

I usually try to stay within a few feet from my body during an OBE, which would explain why my frequency of reality fluctuations are less, since I don't initiate the astral consciousness.

[Volgerle]

Well I have a pet theory, that the physical body has its own consciousness (which dies with the physical body) and the astral body has its own separate consciousness (which continues after physical death).

I wouldn't call it consciousness but rather programming since for me the physical body is a kind of machine or 'bio-computer'. Many things are automated, even initiated survival programs (be they central/peripherous nervous system or hormonally steered or whatever), just like a computer doing a kind of 'self'-maintenance (which is pre-programmed or built into the design in the first place). This includes also what we observe as 'emotional' and distress actions. E.g. I've read a death account (past life regression) where the woman was burnt as a witch on the stake in the midde ages. She reported being already out of the body when she witnessed "her" body still crying from pain and struggling/wiggling in the dying process. I think that all of these (re)actions are built in, instinctual 'behaviours' and/or programs built into the computer software (maybe in the DNA-"software", too).

[catmeow]

I wouldn't call it consciousness but rather programming since for me the physical body is a kind of machine or 'bio-computer'. Many things are automated, even initiated survival programs (be they central/peripherous nervous system or hormonally steered or whatever), just like a computer doing a kind of 'self'-maintenance (which is pre-programmed or built into the design in the first place). This includes also what we observe as 'emotional' and distress actions. E.g. I've read a death account (past life regression) where the woman was burnt as a witch on the stake in the midde ages. She reported being already out of the body when she witnessed "her" body still crying from pain and struggling/wiggling in the dying process. I think that all of these (re)actions are built in, instinctual 'behaviours' and/or programs built into the computer software (maybe in the DNA-"software", too).

Yes, this is really my suspicion too. Firstly, I'll pin my colours to the mast and say that, based on the evidence of numerous spontaneous OBEs, I believe that the physical body does have a "consciousness" of its own, which is distinct from our non-physical, self aware astral consciousness.  That is what we have to infer from the evidence. So, at the minimum, there are TWO consciousnesses.

But is the physical consciousness self aware or is it just a bio-computer which behaves exactly as if it were self aware, but actually isn't? Well I suspect it is not self aware. When the astral consciousness inhabits (focusses on for focus level advocates), the physical body, perhaps it supplies the elusive "self awareness" which consciousness researchers have failed to find.

This would keep all parties happy; it would allow AI advocates to explain human consciousness as brain software running on brain hardware; it would explain why consciousness researchers have failed to find the seat of self awareness; it would explain that the "hard problem of consciousness" is a metaphysical process which can never be achieved by a physical bio computer (or any computer for that matter); it would explain the mind split phenomenon reported repeatedly in spontaneous OBEs; and it would explain how the "I" survives physical death.

Just a thought. Yes, I think that maybe physical consciousness is just a mindless computer program, and the self aware part is provided by our astral consciousness?

[Volgerle]

Yes, I think that maybe physical consciousness is just a mindless computer program, and the self aware part is provided by our astral consciousness?

Computer (for me) is also more metaphorical it's not meant to express sth cold or negative in any way. I view self-awareness as an essential part of consciousness, (maybe "the" essential part) so this is why I would not attribute consciousness as such to the physical vehicle. On the other hand, maybe plants and lower animals down to microbes, or even lower?,  do not have a self-awareness as such. They might be evolving and be less self-aware. However, many teachings and also some regressed people stated that they have a kind of group soul = group self-awareness = group consciousness. So that means they would then not really be without self-awareness. It is in the course of soul evolution that they might develop a more individual self-awareness (consciousness) and split from the group / hive mind.

However, with regards to the human body, I believe in the 'vital force' around and "in" it as the sustaining life force. This vital force is maybe integral part of either another nonphysical "body" or even 'steered' and 'customised' by the Higher Self indeed. I think I remember that some esoteric teachings even tell us so. So it is a little difficult where we put the boundary between 'physical' and its sustaining 'non-physical' / etheric part or whatever and how we define the vital force itself (is it already consciousness with self-awareness or also a 'computed' semi-automatic mechanism? I don't know.)

[TheBest55x]

Guys what do you think about this article. The Text says that near death experience are  just lucid dreams .
http://digitaljournal.com/article/320171

[Lionheart]

 Ok, I'll bite. Now what is a Lucid Dream and where it the 100% irrefutable evidence supporting what a Lucid Dream really is? I think once again it's all in one's personal perception.