Near Death Experiences & Out of Body Experiences

[El-Bortukali]

I'm sure that everybody will survive physical death.

not good news to me

[Vilkate]

Why so, Bortukali?

[El-Bortukali]

because i don't have any wish to live forever heh.

[David Warner]

El-Bortukali,

Good news though - from what I've been working on in the astral and along with validations - it appears that way we do survive physical death.

tvos

[mactombs]

to Mactombs
Have you experienced an OBE  
A truly profound OBE would leave you with little or no doubt about the issue. Consciousness can separate from the physical body and survive indefinately. If you have not yet had an OBE I truly hope that you do experience one in the near future.

Yeah, I've experienced OBEs. They are profound, but there is still room for doubt. Hallucinations happen that have absolutely no validity. If hallucinations can be constructed by the brain, why not OBEs? Even if OBEs are real, who's to say they don't require a physical brain? I want to believe, but I don't have reason to throw away doubt.

[David Warner]

Mactombs,

How long have you been projecting and seriously about validation?

I've been at it for 18yrs and in the past, had lite evidence of validations, but not as pronounced as this last year. I did not do tracking as I am avid about it today. What I feel has made a huge difference is finding my peace with myself, and turning a lot over to God. There was always that conflict between religion, acceptance of Gods reality and the obe.

You already know my story and how I found God and the path that I'm on. Once I said "you win and need some help" the obe's started coming back again along with what I've been searching for "validations".

I don't want to come off sounding like I'm a reborn christian, God this, God that which is not the case. Just finding a little time out of our lives to pray, talk and ask for answers. I'm now finding that this stuff actually does work and the spiritual path I follow.

Why else would I've all this motivation, desire, and to set fire with the journals, video, interviews, audio recordings, 24/7 obe thinking, the web site q&a's, astral pulse. Along with working 40hrs a week and trying to live life on top of it. The energy is coming from somewhere and it only points to one place - inward and out. (God).

Tvos

[jub jub]

Bottom line... faith!

The Bible tells us that we need to have faith in order to please God. I tend to follow this doctrine because it has proved itself to be true in my own life. The more faith I put in God, the more evidence is given to me that he is real!

It seems too simple really. We as humans have to dissect everything and figure how it all works. Life after death is one area that will never be fully understood until after we complete the journey.

In the mean time, we can continue with our OBE's and have fun banging heads with our consciousness.

[MisterJingo]

Bottom line... faith!

The Bible tells us that we need to have faith in order to please God. I tend to follow this doctrine because it has proved itself to be true in my own life. The more faith I put in God, the more evidence is given to me that he is real!

It seems too simple really. We as humans have to dissect everything and figure how it all works. Life after death is one area that will never be fully understood until after we complete the journey.

In the mean time, we can continue with our OBE's and have fun banging heads with our consciousness.

To perhaps play devils advocate. If one believes we create our reality, then putting increasing unquestioning faith in the belief of a God would surely see the creation of such a God from that belief (or create a structure which behaves in a way we conceptualise such a God to behave), rather than that belief finding a pre-existing God?
By this I mean, over time the belief would create a 'God' which behaves in a way our belief percieves it too - which inturn would reinforce such a belief. Which would mirror your own experience of more faith == more evidence. We find what we seek irregardless of its truth.
So how do we know if the subject of our faith is created by us or has a reality independent of us (individually)?

Ps Sorry if this is moving off topic. It's something I've often wondered is all .

[jub jub]

Bottom line... faith!

The Bible tells us that we need to have faith in order to please God. I tend to follow this doctrine because it has proved itself to be true in my own life. The more faith I put in God, the more evidence is given to me that he is real!

It seems too simple really. We as humans have to dissect everything and figure how it all works. Life after death is one area that will never be fully understood until after we complete the journey.

In the mean time, we can continue with our OBE's and have fun banging heads with our consciousness.

To perhaps play devils advocate. If one believes we create our reality, then putting increasing unquestioning faith in the belief of a God would surely see the creation of such a God from that belief (or create a structure which behaves in a way we conceptualise such a God to behave), rather than that belief finding a pre-existing God?
By this I mean, over time the belief would create a 'God' which behaves in a way our belief percieves it too - which inturn would reinforce such a belief. Which would mirror your own experience of more faith == more evidence. We find what we seek irregardless of its truth.
So how do we know if the subject of our faith is created by us or has a reality independent of us (individually)?

Ps Sorry if this is moving off topic. It's something I've often wondered is all .

Good point! It's the old "What came first, the chicken or the egg" dilemma!

[MisterJingo]

Good point! It's the old "What came first, the chicken or the egg" dilemma!

To which we finally have an answer(!) :

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2196880,00.html

[mactombs]

A certain kind of "surrender" and "humility" towards a largely unknown wider reality in our current state of mind may be necessary to break out self-imposed limitations

Thank you, Major Tom, this makes perfect sense to me. My (OBE) limitations are self-imposed. I'll have to think about what you've said for quite awhile ... After reading it, I have this feeling like I'm on the edge, almost at that point of eureka for a concept that I need to discover.

This thought I find pops up, but that my current mindset rejects: Let the OBE find me. Relinquish thought of controlling it.

Hmm...

[jub jub]

Cold and hard facts about life after death have never been able to nourish a soul you know?

They always remain just that....cold and hard facts.

Pertaining to NDE's... I was wondering what else can nourish the soul in the case of "the fear of dying" besides reports or accounts of real life NDE's or having faith in something or someone that promises life after death. Are there other alternatives?

Are there "cold and hard" facts that can be verified?

It seems we're pretty limited in this area.

[mactombs]

Thanks for expounding on that, Major Tom. That's a gem. You're right - and it's a lesson I've been learning (again) recently.

In another example, people tell you, "well you're at the bottom now, but it can only get better." It's not true. Life has endless surprises. Since I've been back, as far as circumstances go, my life has only gotten worse. But the crucial thing wasn't that life was supposed to change and get better - I changed and now I cope better. Life isn't easy, and it's never going to get that way. It's about self-development, not external control.

For whatever reason, I'm strongly optimistic now despite what happens to me. If the ground opened up tomorrow and sucked me down into Dante's Inferno, I'd say bring it on. It's not an easy life that will make me happy, it's who I am that will. I can't lose with that.

[David Warner]

Mactombs,

I was reading Kevin Williams "Nothing better than death" e-book he
published. He talks about duel NDE's and that is some pretty cool veridical evidence. I didn't realize that there were reports on duel nde's until I started to read up on them.

By far, that would be the same as partner exploration in the astral but in a life threatening circumstance. The e-book is free for download and is a excellent read supported with evidence.

Tvos