Do real time projections exist ?

[brianspuk]

The experiences I had when I was very young, which got me interested in this subject in the first place, were of floating around above my body or out in the garden.  I assume that this is a real time projection. I always assumed that the astral is just a different dimension of some sort, although I've never consciously experienced what is normally referred to the astral as yet.

Brian

[Frank]

Mark: An interesting post.

quote:Originally posted by clandestino

In the "real time" scenario, the individual finds himself floating in the physical world, without the physical laws we are familiar with (solid structures give way; gravity can be ignored.)

The real-time zone in my experience is an infinite kind of buffer-zone that exists between Astral matter and Physical matter. This zone extends beyond planet Earth to encompass all Physical matter. Way out in the RTZ you will also find links to other realms of physical-matter reality, too.  

quote:
The astral is accepted to contain many different levels / places, some of which are inhabited by higher consciousness and generally don't lend themselves to being described using everyday language.

The higher dimensions are inhabited by people of a higher-level of conscious awareness. These people thus have far wider degrees of freedom than us. This, in turn, affords them a much greater range of lifestyle options.

As for describing these places, my view is these areas can lend themselves to being described in everyday language. In my view, all it will take is enough everyday people with enough of a simple-minded, down-to-earth attitude to explore these places and report their experiences. Problem is, all this multi-dimensional stuff is a heck of a tricky thing to get one's head around. Well, it is for me anyway.

quote:
It seems that the astral is any region that does not have the appearance of a familiar place within the real-time zone / physical world.

In my experience, the Astral is populated by zillions of people many of whom are living in very much the same set-up as you would find within the Physical. So I'm respectfully agreeing to disagree, here. In fact, sometimes I get confused and have to stop and think for a moment which region I'm in: Physical or Astral. This may sound daft, admittedly. But that *is* how real it gets after a while.

Every situation or circumstance, or whatever else you find within our Physical realm, you will find within the Astral (and a heck of a *lot* more besides). One of the most astounding things I realised, which only became obvious after becoming fairly proficient at Astral exploration, is how the Physical is actually an end-result rather than the start-point people generally believe it to be (including myself at one time).

Basically, I split the Astral into two primary areas. (Though I think what I am about to say differs from the more mystical descriptions.) The first primary area is composed largely of the Belief-System territories. This, in Monroe-speak, would be Focus levels 24, 25 & 26. Religion has a heavy influence within these regions. There are all manner of "heavens" and "hells" and countless other types of groups of people acting out all manner of emotion-driven fantasies, especially of a sexual nature.

The second primary area is composed of what are known as Exchange territories. In Monroe-speak this is Focus 27. The Exchange territories are split into two basic parts. There are the Old Exchange-territories: this is where you'll find all the rest and recovery areas, the library of knowledge, and so forth, which Monroe and others have come across in their explorations.

Alongside these have grown what are called the New Exchange-territories. From my experience, this area appears to be composed of people who I describe as, "dead and proud of it". Due to the fact that everyone I've had conversations with thus far have undergone a number of life-cycles within the Physical. From this they appear to have picked-up a sufficient degree of knowledge in order to avoid getting caught in the lower regions. And, from what I can gauge, they have had little or no need for any kind of rest and recovery.

These people largely understand where they are in the general scheme of things. They are basically happy and up-beat. I've spoken to loads of people and none of them had any regrets about having died, Physically. They engage in largely the same kinds of activities people would normally engage-in while Physical i.e. they live in houses and the like. They travel to see friends, have hobbies, and so forth. Like I say, within this region I'll often find myself sitting chatting with a group of people and, for a brief while, I'll actually forget I'm projecting there as opposed to being a permanent resident.

quote:
In my experience, there is no difference between an astral projection and a real time projection. Perhaps we should stop using the words "real time projection" as they are simply referring to an astral construct that takes the form of the physical world, in the minds eye of the projector.

Personally, I could never get on with the term real-time projection. It stems from the fact within this realm the Physical can be viewed in "real time". But the real-time zone encompasses *all* physical matter not just planet Earth.

I found your further comments regarding the RTZ interesting but I do not have all that much experience exploring this region as I tend to slip from Physical direct to Astral. So it's difficult for me to make any informed comment. All I can do is hold the transition, initially, so I sort-of hover in the region of my bedroom. But if I try to move from this position, say, fall through the floor into the kitchen: for a second or two I'll see the kitchen then the Astral shift is initiated.

quote:
Lets say someone sets up a playing card out of view, then projects, and records the info accurately. Imagine this is repeated several times and verified by scientists. Is it actually demonstrating that something is leaving the body, and making the observation ? or is it just demonstrating that the mind has become party to information that it required ?

This last point is quite intriguing.

Personally, my stance on the notion of "proof" is for each individual to learn to project competently for themselves and all the proof in the word will be handed to them in spades.

The Astral is an amazing place that never ceases to entertain and enthral. Perhaps the most fascinating circumstance I'm now coming across ever more regularly, is visiting the same place and chatting to people I have met before.

People greet you with a smile; shake your hand in welcome; ask you how you are; what you've been up to; and they'll fill you in on what they too have been involved in since you last met. All this is happening with the same high-degree of conscious awareness, level of realisation, and ability to control as I have while awake and alert while Physical.

What I'm basically saying is proof is provided naturally. In that, after a while of practice, the nature of the events themselves confirms - completely beyond doubt - there is no way you could possibly be "dreaming".  

Yours,
Frank

[Terry B]

When I was young, I was napping at my grandparents house (actualy it's my mum's grandparents house).

It was not very long that I fall asleep. Actually I don't really fall asleep but I get paralysed. In the same moment I have a strange dream (at that time and until 5-6 years after that, I don't have any idea what an OBE is, much less try to induce one). In that dream I was walking around the house. What makes this dream extra special is that I can't actually see my body, and everything around me gives off a beautiful and strange golden glow. I've nevere seen anything like this. While walking I was like, wow look at that. At that time I was trying to wake up from that 'dream'. My conciousness was actually split into two. I'm viewing from my 'dream' and also struggling to wake up. What intersting is that my family saw me struggling and they think I'm having a dream or nightmare but noone really think of waking me up.

Now I remember that I have many time 'dreamed' of walking around the house, climbing my double storey bed but they were all during nightime and dark and nothing compares to the vibrant color during the day. "Hallmark Style"

[clandestino]

Hi there folks !

cheers for the detailed response Frank. I'm particularly interested in the "exchange territories" you mentioned (focus 27). Although I've haven't experienced them (yet) its fascinating to hear you say :

"People greet you with a smile; shake your hand in welcome; ask you how you are; what you've been up to; and they'll fill you in on what they too have been involved in since you last met."

ps - I'd just like to emphasise that I'm not on a search for "proof" as such ! The few experiences I've had have confirmed I'm not dreaming. I thought I'd mention the old "card exercise" just to make the point that it doesn't follow that there IS something leaving the body in the RTZ projection....

...But perhaps there is ! hence this discussion.

Frank said :

"As for describing these places, my view is these areas can lend themselves to being described in everyday language."

I agree - I guess that it is a case of repeated experience of something new, before you can make head or tail of it.

"One of the most astounding things I realised....is how the Physical is actually an end-result rather than the start-point people generally believe it to be..."

Can you elaborate on this a little ? Do you mean, say, from the perspective of being within F27, this becomes apparent ?

Its interesting that you've split up F27 into 2 areas - R&R, and then the "new exchange" area. What are the general intentions of the people you've met there ? Are they keen to just kick back and relax, or are they half-way through a journey of some kind ?

Terry B, I too have had similar experiences....Its excellent to be able to share them with like-minded people around here !

anyway - back to work,
best wishes
Mark

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by clandestino

I'm particularly interested in the "exchange territories" you mentioned (focus 27). Although I've haven't experienced them (yet) its fascinating to hear you say :

"People greet you with a smile; shake your hand in welcome; ask you how you are; what you've been up to; and they'll fill you in on what they too have been involved in since you last met."

Yes, at first it is a tad freaky but you get used to it. That's how "real" it gets after a while.

quote:  
ps - I'd just like to emphasise that I'm not on a search for "proof" as such ! The few experiences I've had have confirmed I'm not dreaming. I thought I'd mention the old "card exercise" just to make the point that it doesn't follow that there IS something leaving the body in the RTZ projection....

Yes, I absolutely agree with you. Again, your point is intriguing. Especially as this "card excercise" is, now and again, touted by some as "ultimate proof".

quote:
"One of the most astounding things I realised....is how the Physical is actually an end-result rather than the start-point people generally believe it to be..."

Can you elaborate on this a little ? Do you mean, say, from the perspective of being within F27, this becomes apparent ?

This stems from my comparing one with the other. I'm speaking here of situations that exist in the new exchange-territories (Focus 27 in Monroe-speak). Well, the more I explore this region, the more the Physical-realm seems like a poor Astral relation.

I have actually spoken to many people who, after having had a number of incarnations within this Physical realm, would not do it again. They speak in terms like there is no way they would give-up their current life, for a lifespan within this Physical realm.

People within the higher regions have a degree of freedom and luxury that simply does not exist within the Physical.

To me, it seems like so many things which have been invented here, within the Physical, were orchestrated by people subconsciously trying to replicate the luxury they once enjoyed while non-incarnate within the higher Astral realms.

quote:
Its interesting that you've split up F27 into 2 areas - R&R, and then the "new exchange" area. What are the general intentions of the people you've met there ? Are they keen to just kick back and relax, or are they half-way through a journey of some kind ?

The terminology came from the people themselves. These people do not seem troubled by anything. They mainly spend their time, from what I can gauge, just having fun in the general scheme of things.

Yours,
Frank

[clandestino]

Cheers Frank, it sounds like a very interesting place...

I'm sure I'm not the only one who is inspired to practice more after reading your accounts.
regards

Mark

[Nick]

clandestino,

Just want to say that everything I've read here on this thread makes me glad I'm a member of this forum. It's not just the insights I pick up from reading what Frank writes about Focus 27, but also, like you, it inspires me to practice more.

Very best,

[Michael_E]

quote:Originally posted by clandestino
[br
Lets say someone sets up a playing card out of view, then projects, and records the info accurately. Imagine this is repeated several times and verified by scientists. Is it actually demonstrating that something is leaving the body, and making the observation ? or is it just demonstrating that the mind has become party to information that it required ?

Best wishes,
Mark

I like the way you put this, i had a feeling of these two contrasting ideas but coulnt quite put it into words. It does seem a possibility that rtz projections and astral projections are experienced for the most part in a body because a bulk  of our consciousness is rooted in a physical body and is used to this schema as a way of exploring our  environment. being contained to a body could be an unecessary  boundry for astral experiences as far as becoming a party to information that we want to acquire. Our real bodies could be without boundries in the sake of aquireing information in the universe and aquiring that info could be a matter of bending our consciousness in the direction of the info we want.

[Nay]

quote:This stems from my comparing one with the other. I'm speaking here of situations that exist in the new exchange-territories (Focus 27 in Monroe-speak). Well, the more I explore this region, the more the Physical-realm seems like a poor Astral relation.

I have actually spoken to many people who, after having had a number  of incarnations within this Physical realm, would not do it again. They speak in terms like there is no way they would give-up their current life, for a lifespan within this Physical realm.

People within the higher regions have a degree of freedom and luxury that simply does not exist within the Physical.

To me, it seems like so many things which have been invented here, within the Physical, were orchestrated by people subconsciously trying to replicate the luxury they once enjoyed while non-incarnate within the higher Astral realms.

This is brilliant!!  I've read other people trying to explain this concept and he explained it to where it just clicked in my head..[]

Eh, don't mind me.. I'm just having a lightbulb moment.[]

Nay

[clandestino]

I've been considering for some time now the Real Time projection in comparison with an Astral projection.

In the "real time" scenario, the individual finds himself floating in the physical world, without the physical laws we are familiar with (solid structures give way; gravity can be ignored.) The astral is accepted to contain many different levels / places, some of which are inhabited by higher conciousness and generally don't lend themselves to being described using everyday language.

It seems that the astral is any region that does not have the appearance of a familiar place within the real-time zone / physical world.

In my experience, there is no difference between an astral projection and a real time projection. Perhaps we should stop using the words "real time projection" as they are simply referring to an astral construct that takes the form of the physical world, in the minds eye of the projector.

For example, we talk about how a real time projection often ends up as an astral projection. Many different reasons are given for this, e.g. it is hard to hold focus and remain objective in the RTZ; There is a natural tendency to leave the RTZ and enter the astral.

Surely a simpler explanation is that the RTZ is just a staging post in the astral that looks like the physical world, e.g. your bedroom. The further away you move from this staging post, the more you experience "reality fluctuations". Are these not symptomatic of the fact that you are less familiar with, say, the town centre, compared to the contents of your own bedroom ? Couple this with the fact that the mind is capable of creating its own reality during an astral projection.

My hypothesis is this : The process of astral projection, conciously willed or not, can go 2 ways.
1) you end up at a "staging post" in the astral that looks similar to your bedroom / place of projection.
2) you end up somewhere else in the astral.

I recognise that there is something standing in the way of this hypothesis....Both Robert Bruce & Bob Monroe (to name but two people) are adamant that they have gained info that they could not possibly have found out unless they were actually "out of body".

This is a hard one to counter. There is no scientific evidence which backs up Monroe & Bruce and others though.

Lets say someone sets up a playing card out of view, then projects, and records the info accurately. Imagine this is repeated several times and verified by scientists. Is it actually demonstrating that something is leaving the body, and making the observation ? or is it just demonstrating that the mind has become party to information that it required ?

One final point - this post is on the distinction between RTZ and astral. It is not meant primarily as a discussion on the "reality" of the experience.

Best wishes,
Mark