Upon the value of the fleshy body

[Phong]

I don't think the prevailing notion is that development comes from the shedding of the physical form. Rather, it's shedding your limited attachment to the physical form.

I like your idea that God is in all that is, and when one recognizes this they are content with any situation. Well, then is God in the atomic bomb? Is God in the fumes that pollute the environment? Is such an awakened entity just as satisfied watching bloodshed as watershed? These are important questions.

Even better, though, is your suggestion that we came here, that there are things to experience "in this place." Everywhere is the same place. When you leave to get up and go somewhere, whether it's to the kitchen or the astral, the only thing that has changed is your consciousness. "Location" is really best defined as "localized awareness." You are not localized, you are nonlocal. The force that localizes vision is you.

God help me (that's just an expression), but do whatever you want. See great things, serve people, blow people up, destroy cities, experience love, hate, fear, redemption, sickness, health, more hatred, more love, small limits, large limits, no limits - you're God. You can do anything you want. And it's exactly what you're doing right now.

[jilola]

Well seeing as we have been given free will it seems to me that it's up to us to stop the atomic bombs, pollution, injustice, hunger...

Expecting some Advance Bloke From Above to sweep in and save the day A La Superman is infantilistic and an excuse not to take responsibility of the consequences of our very own actions.

But that's the way things are, we create the experiences and for some inexplicable reason we so love war, death, despair, hate and hunger that we year after year spend our waking moments to further the tools for their perpetuation. Lunacy I say, Lunacy!

We have every tool and all the capability necessary to turn the planet into a paradise yet we choose to keep it in the downward spiral.
I pose the question: Why?

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Stillwater]

seemingly logical arguments...  

quote:I like your idea that God is in all that is, and when one recognizes this they are content with any situation. Well, then is God in the atomic bomb? Is God in the fumes that pollute the environment? Is such an awakened entity just as satisfied watching bloodshed as watershed? These are important questions.

You express valid points- but it is my understanding that you refute my statements. That is your perogative, however my counter to your statements is this: As God, or the essence of creation, or whatever you feel is behind existence (save if you take the stance of an atheist[]) is in all things, then how might anything be outside of this force/entity? The fumes and weaponry you speak of are just a sampling of the atrocities that have been allowed to be through the granting of free-will, and as long as men are ignorant, such things will not soon disappear. The higher realms are said to be places of the directance of new and ongoing creation (in a non temporaly-based way, if that makes sense []), and if not visibly so, the rest of the universe echoes this setup to some extent or other. The ill products which have come into being through man are major obstacles in the path of his developement, which cannot be so lightly wisked away, as  jilola was kind enough to point out, without hampering man in his progress. Junior will never grow if daddy is always there to help him, and oneday he will have to walk alone.

An awakened entity is not pleased or content with the suffering around itself, but rather is so rooted in the spirit of love and the infinite that it is not brought down by the horrors all around it. It recognizes that other entities must be allowed to grow on their own terms, and though it is present to give its support, it does not intervene in things which do not concern it, and which should not be tampered with.

What would men think if an angel swooped down and picked a nuclear power plant off the ground, citing it as "Too dangerous for little minds"?

quote:Even better, though, is your suggestion that we came here, that there are things to experience "in this place." Everywhere is the same place. When you leave to get up and go somewhere, whether it's to the kitchen or the astral, the only thing that has changed is your consciousness. "Location" is really best defined as "localized awareness." You are not localized, you are nonlocal. The force that localizes vision is you.

Again, well said. But I think you interpret my words from another angle...

Of course the idea of place is an illusion, as the only thing which really exists, in truth, is consciousness; but you must concede that the realiztion that one can change their perspective viewing dimension and thought pool with will alone is not always force enough to instantly "make it so"- if that were the case, then everyone could go astral at will, and we would not need things such this forum to exchange ideas, as ability would be at the tips of our fingertips, which is slightly less than accurate for most. You speak of the physical as though it is an exclusively abberant and grotesque place, which is only partly right at best. It is also the home of unspeakible marvels and works of creation. What do you expect to find on the higher planes, but more experience? Experience is ultimately the only thing a consciousness has, and is one of the immutable themes of the universe. You are more than welcome to do what you will, as that is your decsion, but it would seem to me that the higher planes are not things to be desired, so much as experienced, much in the way that this world is. But do not accept my words as truth, rather discern that for yourself.

I enjoy speaking with all of you, and further input is both desired and welcome.

Thank you,
Stillwater

[Stillwater]

Hello, friends...

Something which has arisen time after time in my sight of these forums is the idea of the relative importance and merits of the physical form. It would seem that most deem the fleshy body to have some measure of worth, although it appears that the prevailing notion is that development may occur more quickly, or that existence is somehow more peachy after one sheds their physical, earthly form.

I may agree that in some ways more freedom is to be had in other planes once an individual entity has reached some sort of "qualifying" level of development; however, I think that perhaps there might be some delusion relating to this subject.

When one reaches the point at which they can understand the workings of the universe to some extent, and they can see the light of God in all that is, would it not be the case that they would be happy and at ease in whatever situation they found themselves in? Such an entity, in my eyes would desire nothing, and as such, would be content with any lot.

Another point for which I would take the supporting argument of the thesis which I have offered is this: when one comes to grand realizations, and finds tranquility eternale, would they not wish to do naught but aid those around them? Suffering is suffering, and this realm has plenty. Why the big hurry to leave?

There are wondrous things here in this place which may be experienced nowhere else, and it is the case that many come here with the express purpose of service...

These are just my interpretations, and as is the understood preface of all of my posts, my ideas are yours to accept or reject without issue or quib; my purpose, then, is to inquire as to the reasoning for which others have taken the opposite stance. I am curious, as always, to hear what others have to say on this matter, and I would enjoy a disscusion/debate[|)].

Thank you,
Stillwater